Ballard and RB's.....

[NewColtsFan]

 

So.......

 

Reading over several articles featuring our GM,  some thoughts have come to my mind....   (always scary,  I know!)

 

Ballard was talking in the last day or so saying Matt Jones looked very good IN PRACTICE toward the end of the season.   He kept cutting him,  but he also kept re-signing him.   Says he might factor into things going forward.    I'm not trying to read too much into this except that Ballard may want to pair Mack up with a bigger, more between the tackles RB....   that would be the more traditional approach....

 

BUT....

 

In articles about our new 4-3 defense and Ballard's desire to make it as fast as he can,  he has also stressed that the Colts every year will play 10-12 games INDOOR on Carpet and that leads to wanting to play faster.      OK....    so my question is,  would Ballard want to do what Atlanta has done....     they have two smaller RB's...  Freeman and Coleman....  neither is over 210 and they both may be closer to 205.    Would Ballard want TWO FAST RB's instead of one pounder and one porsche?      I don't know,  but I'm wondering..... Would his views on playing so many games every year on a fast indoor carpet may want him to take a different approach to the running game?

 

I think this is highly possible and won't be more apparent until FA and the Draft have come and gone and we see what he's done.....

 

But it has me very, VERY curious........

 

For What it's Worth........   here is a WAY too early look at my top-12 RB's.....     This list CAN and WILL change after the Combine and Pro Days

 

 

1st Round

-------------

Barkley       (Consensus best player in this draft)

Guice          (could slip to R2)

 

2nd Round

---------------

Michel      (Could sneak into R1)

Jones

Chubb      (Bad medicals on his knee could drop him)

 

 

3rd Round

--------------

Johnson 

Penny 

Freeman    (His medicals could also drop him)

Wadley

 

4th Round

-------------

Hines

Walton

Scarborough

 

 

This RB list was impacted by the loss of TWO Day 2 players.....

Bryce Love           Stanford

Damien Harris      Alabama

 

Both were thought to come out early...    both surprised by returning to school.     If both had come out,  this RB class,  which is very good,  would be closer to last year's great class. It's still remains one of the strengths of the this draft class.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

-The more I look at these RB's I am really liking Michel and Jones if Guice is gone in Round 1. If we pass on Barkley and Guice is gone too, maybe Michel or Jones would be that guy to team up with Mack - go fast on our carpet. Nice break down of the RB's NCF. Michel and Jones both will be there early in Round 2 IMO, I doubt Guice will be though. Get Norwell in Free Agency to help the O.line, Draft Chubb to help the D, and pick Guice if he's there, if not go Michel or Jones? Sounds like a plan to me. With a 100% Luck to go with that, things would be looking much better than they have been. TY is already healthy as well. As it is looking, Hooker and Kelly both should be 100% too starting the season, I haven't heard any differently.

 

-Regarding Nick Chubb, yeah his previous injury scares me off a bit too and he isn't as fast as Michel is either. Michel averaged 7.9 a carry last season and gained over 1200 Yards, that is pretty eye popping.

[NorthernBlue]

Guice might make it past the 1st. Nearly all the teams selecting after Buffalo have RBs. Maybe CAR  but I could see Guice dropping unless he kills the combine.

[Scott Pennock]

Realistically......I would be fine with Matt Jones being the thunder to Mack's lightning......

 

So long as we draft every possible asset for the defense!

 

Spend that FA money on 2 proven NFL lineman that can plug and play and 1 proven NFL receiver that can play opposite T.Y.!

[Flash7]

Both of Atlanta's smaller RBs can run between the tackles and gain the tough yards in addition to being able to make a small run turn into a big gain. This allows Atlanta to play with them as the two primary backs.

 

Mack might be able to run between the tackles consistently (we don't know yet)  but he is known for bouncing runs to the outside. For that reason, Ballard might consider a thunder to Mack's lightning. You have to be able to grind out the tough yards too.

[jshipp23]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So.......

 

Reading over several articles featuring our GM,  some thoughts have come to my mind....   (always scary,  I know!)

 

Ballard was talking in the last day or so saying Matt Jones looked very good IN PRACTICE toward the end of the season.   He kept cutting him,  but he also kept re-signing him.   Says he might factor into things going forward.    I'm not trying to read too much into this except that Ballard may want to pair Mack up with a bigger, more between the tackles RB....   that would be the more traditional approach....

 

BUT....

 

In articles about our new 4-3 defense and Ballard's desire to make it as fast as he can,  he has also stressed that the Colts every year will play 10-12 games INDOOR on Carpet and that leads to wanting to play faster.      OK....    so my question is,  would Ballard want to do what Atlanta has done....     they have two smaller RB's...  Freeman and Coleman....  neither is over 210 and they both may be closer to 205.    Would Ballard want TWO FAST RB's instead of one pounder and one porsche?      I don't know,  but I'm wondering..... Would his views on playing so many games every year on a fast indoor carpet may want him to take a different approach to the running game?

 

I think this is highly possible and won't be more apparent until FA and the Draft have come and gone and we see what he's done.....

 

But it has me very, VERY curious........

 

For What it's Worth........   here is a WAY too early look at my top-12 RB's.....     This list CAN and WILL change after the Combine and Pro Days

 

 

1st Round

-------------

Barkley       (Consensus best player in this draft)

Guice          (could slip to R2)

 

2nd Round

---------------

Michel      (Could sneak into R1)

Jones

Chubb      (Bad medicals on his knee could drop him)

 

 

3rd Round

--------------

Johnson 

Penny 

Freeman    (His medicals could also drop him)

Wadley

 

4th Round

-------------

Hines

Walton

Scarborough

 

 

This RB list was impacted by the loss of TWO Day 2 players.....

Bryce Love           Stanford

Damien Harris      Alabama

 

Both were thought to come out early...    both surprised by returning to school.     If both had come out,  this RB class,  which is very good,  would be closer to last year's great class. It's still remains one of the strengths of the this draft class.

 

 

No Josh Adams??? He is one of my favorites in later rounds, I got Barkley, Guice, Michel,Penny, Chubb, Freeman, and Scarborough ahead of him..But it is close, I think he could be one of the steals in this draft..A bigger guy with lots of shake, could be a Eddie George/Ricky Watters hybrid with his upright running style which some see as a hindrance, but I think he uses it to his adantage as his head is up which allows him to see and have better vision on turn back lanes, holes opening up etc..He looked great early in the year until he was hampered by injuries..

[csmopar]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So.......

 

Reading over several articles featuring our GM,  some thoughts have come to my mind....   (always scary,  I know!)

 

Ballard was talking in the last day or so saying Matt Jones looked very good IN PRACTICE toward the end of the season.   He kept cutting him,  but he also kept re-signing him.   Says he might factor into things going forward.    I'm not trying to read too much into this except that Ballard may want to pair Mack up with a bigger, more between the tackles RB....   that would be the more traditional approach....

 

BUT....

 

In articles about our new 4-3 defense and Ballard's desire to make it as fast as he can,  he has also stressed that the Colts every year will play 10-12 games INDOOR on Carpet and that leads to wanting to play faster.      OK....    so my question is,  would Ballard want to do what Atlanta has done....     they have two smaller RB's...  Freeman and Coleman....  neither is over 210 and they both may be closer to 205.    Would Ballard want TWO FAST RB's instead of one pounder and one porsche?      I don't know,  but I'm wondering..... Would his views on playing so many games every year on a fast indoor carpet may want him to take a different approach to the running game?

 

I think this is highly possible and won't be more apparent until FA and the Draft have come and gone and we see what he's done.....

 

But it has me very, VERY curious........

 

For What it's Worth........   here is a WAY too early look at my top-12 RB's.....     This list CAN and WILL change after the Combine and Pro Days

 

 

1st Round

-------------

Barkley       (Consensus best player in this draft)

Guice          (could slip to R2)

 

2nd Round

---------------

Michel      (Could sneak into R1)

Jones

Chubb      (Bad medicals on his knee could drop him)

 

 

3rd Round

--------------

Johnson 

Penny 

Freeman    (His medicals could also drop him)

Wadley

 

4th Round

-------------

Hines

Walton

Scarborough

 

 

This RB list was impacted by the loss of TWO Day 2 players.....

Bryce Love           Stanford

Damien Harris      Alabama

 

Both were thought to come out early...    both surprised by returning to school.     If both had come out,  this RB class,  which is very good,  would be closer to last year's great class. It's still remains one of the strengths of the this draft class.

 

 

I hadnt heard about Chubb's (RB) medical issues. How bad are the reports?

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

No Josh Adams??? He is one of my favorites in later rounds, I got Barkley, Guice, Michel,Penny, Chubb, Freeman, and Scarborough ahead of him..But it is close, I think he could be one of the steals in this draft..A bigger guy with lots of shake, could be a Eddie George/Ricky Watters hybrid with his upright running style which some see as a hindrance, but I think he uses it to his adantage as his head is up which allows him to see and have better vision on turn back lanes, holes opening up etc..He looked great early in the year until he was hampered by injuries..

 

What I'm reading about Josh Adams is rounds 5 or 6...   could he go in R4?  Sure.    Not sure he can get to Day 2....

 

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

What I'm reading about Josh Adams is rounds 5 or 6...   could he go in R4?  Sure.    Not sure he can get to Day 2....

 

I'm thinking 4 or 5 most likely...I like a 6-2", 225 lb guy with good speed probaby 4.55..I think he could thrive in right blocking scheme, once he gets a head of steam forget about it...

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I hadnt heard about Chubb's (RB) medical issues. How bad are the reports?

 

I don't know...    the Medicals they do in Indy will make or break him.   He had a bad knee injury I think two years ago.

 

Also....   Chubb and Freeman are similar in good ways and bad.

 

They're both around 5'11" and 225-230.

 

But they've both also got heavy miles on their legs.   The both carried the rock a lot for four years.   Played a lot as freshman and never stopped.   Lots of ware and tear...    will be interesting to see if this impacts where they get drafted...

[jshipp23]

I like Chubb, but he does have a ton of wear and tear and has had a bad injury..I would probably stay away from him, they ran him into the ground at Georgia, he isn't same guy after injury..If he falls to later rounds he is worth a risk as a guy in a stable of backs..Wouldn't count on him as being a main guy..

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

I like Chubb, but he does have a ton of wear and tear and has had a bad injury..I would probably stay away from him, they ran him into the ground at Georgia, he isn't same guy after injury..If he falls to later rounds he is worth a risk as a guy in a stable of backs..Wouldn't count on him as being a main guy..

I'm with you there.  really liked him but I don't want guys with injury histories, especially knees to RBs

[jshipp23]

A running back stable of Barkley, Mack, Adams, and Turbin would be deadly..All have unique traits that differ from each other and could give a ton of offensive flexibility...With running backs injuries will happen so it's good to have at least 3 capable guys, and then Turbin as your specialty goal line, short yardage guy he is automatic if you need a yard..

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

A running back stable of Barkley, Mack, Adams, and Turbin would be deadly..All have unique traits that differ from each other and could give a ton of offensive flexibility...With running backs injuries will happen so it's good to have at least 3 capable guys, and then Turbin as your specialty goal line, short yardage guy he is automatic if you need a yard..

 

If we draft Barkley,  I seriously doubt we spend another draft pick on another RB. 

 

The other picks will have to be spent elsewhere...  

 

[jshipp23]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If we draft Barkley,  I seriously doubt we spend another draft pick on another RB. 

 

The other picks will have to be spent elsewhere...  

 

Probably right...I would have a hard time passing on Adams in the 5th though..I just wish we had more picks, lots of intriguing offensive prospects in this draft...Just depends on if we hit defense and offensive line heavy in free agency...I know it's against popular opinion but it might not be bad idea to build a dynamic offense this year, get it done, and then the next couple offseasons we can go hard on defense...I think our defense can be respectable like they were last year again..The offense really let the defense down last year..

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Probably right...I would have a hard time passing on Adams in the 5th though..I just wish we had more picks, lots of intriguing offensive prospects in this draft...Just depends on if we hit defense offensive line heavy in free agency...I know it's against popular opinion but it might not be bad idea to build a dynamic offense this year, get it done, and then the next couple offseasons we can go hard on defense...I think our defense can be respectable like they were last year again..The offense really let the defense down last year..

 

Interesting....

 

I think most of us think the defense improved last year....   and yet...

 

At the end of the season I believe we were ranked 31st on defense.    Points, yards, even sacks...   31st across the board...    hard for me to see Ballard putting up with that again..

 

[jshipp23]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Interesting....

 

I think most of us think the defense improved last year....   and yet...

 

At the end of the season I believe we were ranked 31st on defense.    Points, yards, even sacks...   31st across the board...    hard for me to see Ballard putting up with that again..

 

Fair enough..I think a lot of it had to do with coaching, as well as them being gassed in 4th quarter, and the couple blowout losses skewing the stats..Like you say though more than likely it's gonna take a few years to build a super bowl contender so if we do create a dynamic offense with a healthy Luck ,and innovative scheme with Reich, it will at least give us a chance any given Sunday, and make the season exciting and entertaining at least...

[Aluckiswolverine]

I see Ballard as a defense type of guy. Build your defense so it gets the ball back in the hands of your playmaker QB. 

 

I think he picks Chubb. 

[IndyScribe]

I think Mark Walton will be picked. Not as good as the other backs, but will be a nice complement to Mack.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So.......

 

Reading over several articles featuring our GM,  some thoughts have come to my mind....   (always scary,  I know!)

 

Ballard was talking in the last day or so saying Matt Jones looked very good IN PRACTICE toward the end of the season.   He kept cutting him,  but he also kept re-signing him.   Says he might factor into things going forward.    I'm not trying to read too much into this except that Ballard may want to pair Mack up with a bigger, more between the tackles RB....   that would be the more traditional approach....

 

BUT....

 

In articles about our new 4-3 defense and Ballard's desire to make it as fast as he can,  he has also stressed that the Colts every year will play 10-12 games INDOOR on Carpet and that leads to wanting to play faster.      OK....    so my question is,  would Ballard want to do what Atlanta has done....     they have two smaller RB's...  Freeman and Coleman....  neither is over 210 and they both may be closer to 205.    Would Ballard want TWO FAST RB's instead of one pounder and one porsche?      I don't know,  but I'm wondering..... Would his views on playing so many games every year on a fast indoor carpet may want him to take a different approach to the running game?

 

I think this is highly possible and won't be more apparent until FA and the Draft have come and gone and we see what he's done.....

 

But it has me very, VERY curious........

 

For What it's Worth........   here is a WAY too early look at my top-12 RB's.....     This list CAN and WILL change after the Combine and Pro Days

 

 

1st Round

-------------

Barkley       (Consensus best player in this draft)

Guice          (could slip to R2)

 

2nd Round

---------------

Michel      (Could sneak into R1)

Jones

Chubb      (Bad medicals on his knee could drop him)

 

 

3rd Round

--------------

Johnson 

Penny 

Freeman    (His medicals could also drop him)

Wadley

 

4th Round

-------------

Hines

Walton

Scarborough

 

 

This RB list was impacted by the loss of TWO Day 2 players.....

Bryce Love           Stanford

Damien Harris      Alabama

 

Both were thought to come out early...    both surprised by returning to school.     If both had come out,  this RB class,  which is very good,  would be closer to last year's great class. It's still remains one of the strengths of the this draft class.

 

 

 

Most teams play with 4 RB's. Imo, regardless of surface, you should have 2 fast backs. Incase pf injury & fatigue. Maybe one of them is also a slasher type but still speedy. Then the Big Bruiser type plus rb4.

Barkley, or Guice or USC Jones paired with Mack would be Fine. 

[Defjamz26]

Look at what the Eagles did. They had Blount, Ajayi after the trade, and Clement. You can mix up the styles if you’re going to go RBBC. 

 

Guice might be hard to pass up though. However, we saw in his 1st draft that Ballard is true to his word about being a defensive minded guy. He didn’t draft an offensive player until the 4th round last year. Maybe he looks for a later round RB.  A lot of these change of pace backs might look good in a zone blocking scheme though.

[richard pallo]

Bill Polian just said on NFL live that if Barkley was there for the Colts with the 3rd. pick he would run up with the pick and take him as fast as he could. 

[jshipp23]

20 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Bill Polian just said on NFL live that if Barkley was there for the Colts with the 3rd. pick he would run up with the pick and take him as fast as he could. 

What does he know????

[Dark Superman]

Draft Freeman in the third.

[Reboot]

For a team desperately needing to improve defensively, add talent, depth, and speed, not to mention adding at least some players who will be be better suited to a 4-3 primarily zone coverage, versus the 3-4 primarily man, I would have bet that we'd see a D heavy draft.  Yet, as the roster stands, there is no RB on the roster who has any experience being the workhorse.  Mack at his most used was a 16 carry a game player as a junior in college, less as a senior, less still in the pros.  I think we will see a RB picked who can be a more typical first and second down back than Mack is built to do.

 

As an aside, Chubb averaged the same number of carries a game as Marlon Mack did in college.  And in 15 games last year, he had under 15 carries a game (adding only 4 total catches to 223 carries).  We think he was some workhorse, but he wasn't - Georgia ran the ball a ton, but split carries, so it seemed that way, looked that way, felt that way.  Players like Penny and Jones got over 22 carries a game.  As much as I hate to say it, I think someone talent-wise like Chubb or Freeman is going to be needed to balance Mack, and that's going to take a third round pick at the highest.

 

We could do the same topic just ask Ballard and WRs when (or if) the Colts don't re-sign Moncrief.  The talent drop off after TY is substantial, just as there is a void at RB now... 

[NewColtsFan]

51 minutes ago, Dirty Mudflaps said:

For a team desperately needing to improve defensively, add talent, depth, and speed, not to mention adding at least some players who will be be better suited to a 4-3 primarily zone coverage, versus the 3-4 primarily man, I would have bet that we'd see a D heavy draft.  Yet, as the roster stands, there is no RB on the roster who has any experience being the workhorse.  Mack at his most used was a 16 carry a game player as a junior in college, less as a senior, less still in the pros.  I think we will see a RB picked who can be a more typical first and second down back than Mack is built to do.

 

As an aside, Chubb averaged the same number of carries a game as Marlon Mack did in college.  And in 15 games last year, he had under 15 carries a game (adding only 4 total catches to 223 carries).  We think he was some workhorse, but he wasn't - Georgia ran the ball a ton, but split carries, so it seemed that way, looked that way, felt that way.  Players like Penny and Jones got over 22 carries a game.  As much as I hate to say it, I think someone talent-wise like Chubb or Freeman is going to be needed to balance Mack, and that's going to take a third round pick at the highest.

 

We could do the same topic just ask Ballard and WRs when (or if) the Colts don't re-sign Moncrief.  The talent drop off after TY is substantial, just as there is a void at RB now... 

 

Here are the college carries for some top RB's you know...

 

Todd Gurley            3 years,  510 carries

Zeke Elliott             3 years,  592 carries

Lenard Fournette    3 years, 616 carries

Nick Chubb             4 years,  758 carries.    If you subtract his one injured year where he had 92 carries,  he still had 666 carries in his three full seasons.

 

Forget the average carries per game number.....    Chubb has far more carries in his college career than most any other leading running back.    The NFL views him as having a lot of miles on his legs....   that he's lost tred off his tires.     Hopefully this doesn't cost him much.

 

Other notes:    Melvin Gordon had 531 carries in his 4 years....   but Royce Freeman is the big winner of most carries.....   in his four years,  he ran the ball 947 carries.    That's a HUGE number.     He might fall to the Colts at the top of the 4th round because of the work load...

 

[nburgmei]

5 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

I'm thinking 4 or 5 most likely...I like a 6-2", 225 lb guy with good speed probaby 4.55..I think he could thrive in right blocking scheme, once he gets a head of steam forget about it...

Unfortunately, Adams came in at 213 today! That's pretty lean for 6' 2". 

[jshipp23]

14 minutes ago, nburgmei said:

Unfortunately, Adams came in at 213 today! That's pretty lean for 6' 2". 

Yeah, he probably cut weight to run as fast of a 40 as possible..

[Reboot]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Here are the college carries for some top RB's you know...

 

Todd Gurley            3 years,  510 carries

Zeke Elliott             3 years,  592 carries

Lenard Fournette    3 years, 616 carries

Nick Chubb             4 years,  758 carries.    If you subtract his one injured year where he had 92 carries,  he still had 666 carries in his three full seasons.

 

Forget the average carries per game number.....    Chubb has far more carries in his college career than most any other leading running back.    The NFL views him as having a lot of miles on his legs....   that he's lost tred off his tires.     Hopefully this doesn't cost him much.

 

Other notes:    Melvin Gordon had 531 carries in his 4 years....   but Royce Freeman is the big winner of most carries.....   in his four years,  he ran the ball 947 carries.    That's a HUGE number.     He might fall to the Colts at the top of the 4th round because of the work load...

 

Right, which shows how far we've come in recent years limiting carries...  it may well be a lot for today, but it is still a ton less than it was for most featured backs just a generation ago.  Heck, he isn't even in the top 5 in career carries in this draft class...

 

Zeke in his last year, in 13 games averaged nearly 25 touches a game.  Add Elliott's receptions, and he's at 660 touches a season not counting special teams returns.  Gurley played in 16 games his last two seasons, and had Chubb and Michel there to split carries with.  His freshmen year he averaged 13 touches a game, in line with how Georgia has handled it's RB talent - Chubb is at 16.  Fournette played in 7 games as a junior, but as a sophomore had 319 touches in 12 games for an average of 26.5 touches a game - and what happened the next year?  He broke down... 

 

Pumphrey, who Penny took over for at SDSU had 1059 career carries.  And had they not had Pumphrey, Penny would have been in the same boat - last year 22 carries a game and around 25 total touches a game, so it is the SDSU model.  Justin Jackson from Northwestern, 1142 carries, and he's available in this draft too.  So it's relative. 

 

My main point was, at 16 carries a game, we've come a long way, for the most part, from making kids have 30 touches a game.  A huge number this season was a part time/split carries back just a couple of classes ago.  For the most part I see the NCAA being a lot more like the NFL, where multiple backs and splitting carries is the norm.  The NCAA wasn't like that even recently, some schools are still leaning way too heavily on one back. 

 

We can redefine what workshorse means, but Chubb wasn't asked to do what Ron Dayne, Cedric Benson, Donald Pumphrey, or Royce Freeman were asked to do.  Chubb ranks 161st all time in carries.  There are 8 guys in this draft class alone who had more career carries than Chubb did.