Obgonnia Okoronkwo is 1 reason why we can pass on Chubb..

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, That Guy said:

 

Here’s one:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000915990/article/charley-casserly-mock-draft-10-colts-snag-saquon-barkley

 

Ha!  Have you heard of asking for clarification?  It’s the typical English way to respond to ambiguity. 

 

I agree with your opinion on this thread, but let’s not turn this into a meaningless argument.

 

The Casserly story is a Mock draft,  not a list of top players.

 

Just because he has Chubb going outside the top-5,  doesn't automatically mean he has him ranked outside the top-5.       You may be right.    But I'd have to see a few more Mocks from Casserly and see where he has Chubb to get a better read.     I'm not sure Casserly does a top-50 list as Jeremiah does?

 

 

[stitches]

3 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

 

Applying pressure against the QB is infinitely more important than having a defensive end that gets run stops. @stitches had a really informative thread about just how unimportant the run game is on either side of the ball. The running game is nearing obsolescence. 

Chubb was no. 1 in run stop efficiency in the country. The thing is... he's pretty damn good in pass-rush productivity too. He was also no.9 in the whole country in pass-rush productivity. Chubb is NOT just a run stopper. He's pretty damn elite (production-wise and technique wise) in both. This is the type of player you pick in the top 5 if he covers some thresholds of athleticism. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

Regarding the OLB from Oklahoma.....

 

Here's a fun fact about our GM from his first draft with the Colts.

 

Chris Ballard drafted the two largest players in the 2017 draft.

 

He drafted 358 pound Zack Banner and 347 pound George Stewart.

 

I appreciate that one draft is too small a sample size,  but my immeidate reaction would be that Ballard is a size king.   He prefers larger to smaller.    So, this whole,   he's not too small we once had Robert Mathis play the same position thing I think is a pipe dream.    But reasonable people might disagree.     Now, if we can just find some reasonable people?

 

[krunk]

Again I like Chubb and Barkley. Difference is I will not make up dumb and silly stuff to falsely puff up the value of the one player I like over the other. I could sit here and say there are other backs in this draft that have rushed for more yards than Barkley, break more tackles xyz but that doesn't necessarily mean the player is better than Barkley or give the whole picture. And then use that slanted info to jack up the value of Chubb. That's the kind of stuff Ship does.

 

I think both players are worthy of the #3 pick to be quite honest. And if Ballard has Barkley rated higher on his board then I say by all means go with what your board says.  Reich may even make a pitch or two for Barkley I think  because he has a lot of traits that remind me of Thurman Thomas and Reich was on the same team as Thomas. Would really do alot  for our playaction, RPO game.  As far as our meaningless opinions go I would still go with Chubb because it's been proven over and over again that the great majority of the top pass rushers in the league come from 1st round draft picks.  It's not easy to get good to great parts for your defensive line so I think if you've got the chance to get one of the premium players in this draft sitting in your lap you do it.  And I think especially when you look at how much the scheme we'll be running depends on pressure from the front 4.  Unless you(Ballard) really feel the RB is that much better which I have my doubts they do.  When it comes to RBs it's been proven over and over again that you can get 1,000 yard plus backs outside of the first round. Or you can build a committee that equals the production of one back.  Especially if you take care to build the Offensive Line properly.   The Philadelphia Eagles themselves used lower round pick backs to win the Super Bowl.

 

I would only get Barkley if Chubb were gone.  If it worked out that way I definitely would not trade out of the pick. I'd select Barkley and walk away smiling. If neither were there then that's when I'd trade back.

[jshipp23]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Regarding the OLB from Oklahoma.....

 

Here's a fun fact about our GM from his first draft with the Colts.

 

Chris Ballard drafted the two largest players in the 2017 draft.

 

He drafted 358 pound Zack Banner and 347 pound George Stewart.

 

I appreciate that one draft is too small a sample size,  but my immeidate reaction would be that Ballard is a size king.   He prefers larger to smaller.    So, this whole,   he's not too small we once had Robert Mathis play the same position thing I think is a pipe dream.    But reasonable people might disagree.     Now, if we can just find some reasonable people?

 

You mean Grover Stewart? Lol...Also you choose NT and T to make a point about picking larger players? He likes taller corners which is good, but he specifically said in press conference we are going to change focus to speed for the 4-3...What happened to Zack Banner by the way? Maybe Ballard learned a lesson with that..

[krunk]

To be honest with you I'm enamored with how Barkley effects the passing game.  This guy is a very good receiver.  I mean dude caught 54 receptions this year for 632 yards and 11.7 yards per catch average.   Receptions got better and better every year.  So you're getting a 30 carry per game capable back, plus a potential 1,000 yard receiver and a great blocker. A triple threat basically. 

 

This is the type of stuff Shipp should be pumping up to make his arguments.  Kid is more than just a Mccafrey.   Barkely would be EJ and Mack would basically be a better version  of Dominque Rhodes.   I won't lie that's not bad.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

To be honest with you I'm enamored with how Barkley effects the passing game.  This guy is a very good receiver.  I mean dude caught 54 receptions this year for 632 yards and 11.7 yards per catch average.   So you're getting a 30 carry per game capable back, plus a potential 1,000 yard receiver and a great blocker.   This is the type of stuff Shipp should be pumping up to make his arguments.  Kid is more than just a Mccafrey.

That's why I like him Crunked..I am unfairly biased I agree..Chubb is a very good player and if we pick him it will be good for us..I selfishly want Barkley because he could be the most explosive player in NFL and I would love us to have him..I think he can impact us in the near term the most, and cover up other deficiencies on our roster..In the long-term Chubb might be better choice but that is no guarantee..I think he is similar to Derek Barnett who had 5 sacks his rookie year..Also though, I think Barnett will be a Pro Bowl 10+ sack a year guy in next few years..I think Chubb will turn into that as well it just won't be the immediate impact..I just think the super high-end running backs like Leveon Bell and Adrian Peterson are the types that break the shorter career stereotype, and have 10 year productive careers..I think Barkley fits that mold physically, he is built to hold up, and he has the right work ethic and dedication to do whats necessary...

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

That's why I like him Crunked..I am unfairly biased I agree..Chubb is a very good player and if we pick him it will be good for us..I selfishly want Barkley because he could be the most explosive player in NFL and I would love us to have him..I think he can impact us in the near term the most, and cover up other deficiencies on our roster..In the long-term Chubb might be better choice but that is no guarantee..I think he is similar to Derek Barnett who had 5 sacks his rookie year..Also though, I think Barnett will be a Pro Bowl 10+ sack a year guy in next few years..I think Chubb will turn into that as well it just won't be the immediate impact..I just think the super high-end running backs like Leveon Bell and Adrian Peterson are the types that break the shorter career stereotype, and have 10 year productive careers..I think Barkley fits that mold physically, he is built to hold up, and he has the right work ethic and dedication to do whats necessary...

link me to some highlights of Barkley... cause I've not been "WOWED" by what ive seen. He looks good but not great to me.  Niether does Chubb frankly.

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

That's why I like him Crunked..I am unfairly biased I agree..Chubb is a very good player and if we pick him it will be good for us..I selfishly want Barkley because he could be the most explosive player in NFL and I would love us to have him..I think he can impact us in the near term the most, and cover up other deficiencies on our roster..In the long-term Chubb might be better choice but that is no guarantee..I think he is similar to Derek Barnett who had 5 sacks his rookie year..Also though, I think Barnett will be a Pro Bowl 10+ sack a year guy in next few years..I think Chubb will turn into that as well it just won't be the immediate impact..I just think the super high-end running backs like Leveon Bell and Adrian Peterson are the types that break the shorter career stereotype, and have 10 year productive careers..I think Barkley fits that mold physically, he is built to hold up, and he has the right work ethic and dedication to do whats necessary...

I won't totally toss aside some of the scenarios you are proposing if we picked up somebody like Ansah.   That would look good with somebody like Arden Key or Landry.  My main issue is I'm not quite sure Key or Landry will be there in the second round.  Despite what the analysts are talking about I think maybe somebody like Davenport will be there.  Definitely Okoronkwo should be around.  I don't really like passing over a premium pass rusher to wait around on others.   We couldn't even get a pass rusher until the 3rd round last year and that turned out to be Basham and he wasn't ready yet.   I really don't want to repeat that to be honest .

[That Guy]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Casserly story is a Mock draft,  not a list of top players.

 

Just because he has Chubb going outside the top-5,  doesn't automatically mean he has him ranked outside the top-5.       You may be right.    But I'd have to see a few more Mocks from Casserly and see where he has Chubb to get a better read.     I'm not sure Casserly does a top-50 list as Jeremiah does?

 

 

Fair enough.  I think all of these rankings at the start of this process have Chubb in the top five.  Let's see if he can stay there throughout the lead up to the draft.

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

link me to some highlights of Barkley... cause I've not been "WOWED" by what ive seen. He looks good but not great to me.  Niether does Chubb frankly.

I can't post links on my phone for some reason..Look on youtube for the 14 min highlight video, yes I said that right..lol..Ive never seen a guy have a 14 min highlight vid..It shows him doing everything and highlights his receiving ability...Not only is he a great running back, but can also be used in the slot ,and is almost impossible to cover with his speed and lateral quickness..He has great hands like Tomlinson..

[The Peytonator]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Regarding the OLB from Oklahoma.....

 

Here's a fun fact about our GM from his first draft with the Colts.

 

Chris Ballard drafted the two largest players in the 2017 draft.

 

He drafted 358 pound Zack Banner and 347 pound George Stewart.

 

I appreciate that one draft is too small a sample size,  but my immeidate reaction would be that Ballard is a size king.   He prefers larger to smaller.    So, this whole,   he's not too small we once had Robert Mathis play the same position thing I think is a pipe dream.    But reasonable people might disagree.     Now, if we can just find some reasonable people?

 

 

Drafting a big NT and a really tall OT that moves too slow and we cut before the season doesn't really show that Ballard prefers larger to smaller. It's always good to have a mix, and the only thing that really matters, as I know you know, is if they can play. The only edge guy he drafted was Basham, and he's a relatively average size edge player. He brought in Sheard and Simon, also average size edge guys. Mingo you could say is smaller than average. Obgonnia is billed as being smaller, but that's also preliminary. In the NFL he would probably get up to at least 250. Also, our coaches aren't going to be asking him to take on double teams, control two gaps or anything like that. He will make his mark as a pass rusher, and as our old buddy Mr. Grigson used to say, 'you can never have too many pass rushers'. I think the one area Ballard has truly shown a strong preference for bigger players is at corner. He does seem to like the taller press corners like Seattle. 

 

Just my two cents

[krunk]

On the flip side I think a Penny and Mack attack could be very good as well. I mean Penny ran for over 2,000 plus yards last year as well as being a capable receiver.  Not as much impact from the receive position as Barkley but he definitely can be used that way.  Issue is Penny has work to do from a blocking stand point.

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I won't totally toss aside some of the scenarios you are proposing if we picked up somebody like Ansah.   That would look good with somebody like Arden Key or Landry.  My main issue is I'm not quite sure Key or Landry will be there in the second round.  Despite what the analysts are talking about I think maybe somebody like Davenport will be there.  Definitely Okoronkwo should be around.  I don't really like passing over a premium pass rusher to wait around on others.   We couldn't even get a pass rusher until the 3rd round last year and that turned out to be Basham and he wasn't ready yet.   I really don't want to repeat that to be honest .

Fair enough..My hope is we pull Ansah or Lawrence then add another rusher in 2nd or 3rd to groom with Basham until we are ready to move on from Sheard..If we don't add 1 in free agency very well might have to add Chubb not saying he is a bad pick, I'd prefer a different scenario, but he will be good..

[krunk]

Just now, The Peytonator said:

 

Drafting a big NT and a really tall OT that moves too slow and we cut before the season doesn't really show that Ballard prefers larger to smaller. It's always good to have a mix, and the only thing that really matters, as I know you know, is if they can play. The only edge guy he drafted was Basham, and he's a relatively average size edge player. He brought in Sheard and Simon, also average size edge guys. Mingo you could say is smaller than average. Obgonnia is billed as being smaller, but that's also preliminary. In the NFL he would probably get up to at least 250. Also, our coaches aren't going to be asking him to take on double teams, control two gaps or anything like that. He will make his mark as a pass rusher, and as our old buddy Mr. Grigson used to say, 'you can never have too many pass rushers'. I think the one area Ballard has truly shown a strong preference for bigger players is at corner. He does seem to like the taller press corners like Seattle. 

What I would say is Ballard definitely does seem to have a preference for getting the normal NFL size ranges for whatever positions.  He doesn't really get them undersized unless they have some special characteristic.   Maybe I'd say like Jo Jo Natson.  He wasn't a draft pick but he had special abilities.

[jshipp23]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

On the flip side I think a Penny and Mack attack could be very good as well.

I mean Penny ran for over 2,000 plus yards last year as well as being a capable

receiver.  Definitely not as much impact from the receive position as Barkley but

he definitely can be used that way.  Issue is Penny has work to do from a blocking

stand point.

I admit their are lots of good backs behind Barkley who could turn out to be next Kamara or Hunt, picking the right one is the key..It comes down to do you take the elite back and hope to hit on pass rusher in 2nd or 3rd, or take the sure thing pass rusher and hope to hit on RB later..I can see the argument for Chubb no doubt it is harder to find top end pass rushers..It is hard for me because Barkley I think is special even compared to backs like Gurley, Elliot, and Fournette..He has every tool in box..Most years you take the top edge guy over running back for sure..

[The Peytonator]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

What I would say is Ballard definitely does seem to have a preference for getting the normal NFL size ranges for whatever positions.  He doesn't really get them undersized unless they have some special characteristic.   Maybe I'd say like Jo Jo Natson.  He wasn't a draft pick but he had special abilities.

 

Obgo's special characteristic being a really good pass rusher. ;)

 

Honestly, I think we're splitting hairs here. If he ends up being 6'1 250, and John Simon is 6'1 260, I don't think that should write Obgo off for being too small. I just want good players, size be damned. 

[jshipp23]

50 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:

 

Obgo's special characteristic being a really good pass rusher. ;)

 

Honestly, I think we're splitting hairs here. If he ends up being 6'1 250, and John Simon is 6'1 260, I don't think that should write Obgo off for being too small. I just want good players, size be damned. 

I see it the same way..If you can play you can play..It is a lot easier to fit a 3-4 guy in a 4-3 then it is to fit a 4-3 guy to a 3-4...One of the reasons we are switching more choices on picking top level guys..Also, Ballard said no indoor team that ran a 3-4 has ever won the Super Bowl and that's one of the reasons for the switch..

[The Peytonator]

3 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I see it the same way..If you can play you can play..It is a lot easier to fit a 3-4 guy in a 4-3 then it is to fit a 4-3 guy to a 3-4...One of the reasons we are switching more choices on picking top level guys..Also, Ballard said no indoor team that ran a 3-4 has ever made the Super Bowl and that's one of the reasons for the switch..

 

I never did hear him say that but it’s interesting. Personally, I think the differences between them are overstated. You can play the same style defense regardless of what front you use. If we’re moving to a Cover 3 press defense, we could do that under either front. 

 

Like you though, I only care that they can play, and this Obgo guy can play. 

[aaron11]

12 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

 

Applying pressure against the QB is infinitely more important than having a defensive end that gets run stops. @stitches had a really informative thread about just how unimportant the run game is on either side of the ball. The running game is nearing obsolescence. 

i disagree, Philly and Jacksonville were both top three in rushing this year, and it contributed to their seeds in the playoffs

 

our superbowl winner was 13th in passing 

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:

 

I never did hear him say that but it’s interesting. Personally, I think the differences between them are overstated. You can play the same style defense regardless of what front you use. If we’re moving to a Cover 3 press defense, we could do that under either front. 

 

Like you though, I only care that they can play, and this Obgo guy can play. 

I see Robert Mathis with a deadly spin move when I watch this kid..He is gonna be a "gamewrecker" as Pagano would say...

[The Peytonator]

8 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i disagree, Philly and Jacksonville were both top three in rushing this year, and it contributed to their seeds in the playoffs

 

our superbowl winner was 13th in passing 

 

Lawyered lol

 

But I would argue that they’re the exception to the rule. I guess we could just say complete teams win championships. 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

I can't post links on my phone for some reason..Look on youtube for the 14 min highlight video, yes I said that right..lol..Ive never seen a guy have a 14 min highlight vid..It shows him doing everything and highlights his receiving ability...Not only is he a great running back, but can also be used in the slot ,and is almost impossible to cover with his speed and lateral quickness..He has great hands like Tomlinson..

i dont know, im not blown away even after watching that.  I will say this, him going airborne to hurdle people is highlight reel making but just how long can he substain that in the much faster, bigger, harder hitting NFL?  Plus, most of the highlights I just watched came against no name, unranked teams...  Did he ever play anyone substantial?

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

To be honest with you I'm enamored with how Barkley effects the passing game.  This guy is a very good receiver.  I mean dude caught 54 receptions this year for 632 yards and 11.7 yards per catch average.   Receptions got better and better every year.  So you're getting a 30 carry per game capable back, plus a potential 1,000 yard receiver and a great blocker. A triple threat basically. 

 

This is the type of stuff Shipp should be pumping up to make his arguments.  Kid is more than just a Mccafrey.   Barkely would be EJ and Mack would basically be a better version  of Dominque Rhodes.   I won't lie that's not bad.

I like Barkley too...question is what do you do with a RB after their contract is up the first time. Most NFL players after their first contract are entering the prime of their career....most RBs are either washing up or taken so much beating that they start slowing down. So...do you take a rb that with probably best case scenario is 5-6 years with the team....because maybe you franchise tag him one year after his rookie deal but probably don't sign him to that second big contract because they don't live up to them...or do you sign a guy that can be with a franchise and effect it for 10-12 years perhaps. There is no guarantee long term but while I love Barkley's short term influence on the team what do we do long term. Heck the best RBs in our (Indy) teams history M. Faulk, E. James, and E. Dickerson only Edge lasted 7 years with the team. There is risk across the board but RB longevity and their replaceable production means even if you hit on a great back...their time with the team may still end up being shorter if you hit on a different player. I'm pretty squeamish on spending that high of a pick on a RB...when back by committee seems to work so well.

[jshipp23]

7 minutes ago, csmopar said:

i dont know, im not blown away even after watching that.  I will say this, him going airborne to hurdle people is highlight reel making but just how long can he substain that in the much faster, bigger, harder hitting NFL?  Plus, most of the highlights I just watched came against no name, unranked teams...  Did he ever play anyone substantial?

Well he played in the big 10..We all see things different....Almost every so called draft expert says he is the best player in the draft...They must see something..I see it, but respect if you don't..

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Well he played in the big 10..We all see things different....Almost every so called draft expert says he is the best player in the draft...They must see something..I see it, but respect if you don't..

that said, I did just watch the highlights of okoronko, im impressed

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

that said, I did just watch the highlights of okoronko, im impressed

It might give you a better overall view on Barkley if you watch his youtube video called Highlights vs Iowa 40 touches 305 yds....It isn't a highlight video really, it showcases everything he does..Shows him running up the middle for tough yds, his receiving ability, and his big play ability of course...This is against a good team and Penn State has a poor line....I think this might change your opinion on him..

[BProland85]

I love Ogbonnia and would be excited to get him in the 2nd while drafting someone like Quenton Nelson in the 1st after a trade down. Talk about changing the league wide view of our OL by adding Nelson! And Ogbonnia I view as a great fit for what Ballard wants. He said he wants speed and physical play on defense. He definitely brings that. I see him as a faster pass rusher over Chubb, and Eberflus can scheme ways to get him 1 on 1 matchups. 

 

Mathis was undersized as a pass rusher as well and he worked out wonderfully, and I could see Ogbonnia working on as a long term pass rusher also. Just have to properly scheme for him not to get engulfed, but rather to use his athleticism and speed against slower O-linemen. 

[krunk]

26 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I like Barkley too...question is what do you do with a RB after their contract is up the first time. Most NFL players after their first contract are entering the prime of their career....most RBs are either washing up or taken so much beating that they start slowing down. So...do you take a rb that with probably best case scenario is 5-6 years with the team....because maybe you franchise tag him one year after his rookie deal but probably don't sign him to that second big contract because they don't live up to them...or do you sign a guy that can be with a franchise and effect it for 10-12 years perhaps. There is no guarantee long term but while I love Barkley's short term influence on the team what do we do long term. Heck the best RBs in our (Indy) teams history M. Faulk, E. James, and E. Dickerson only Edge lasted 7 years with the team. There is risk across the board but RB longevity and their replaceable production means even if you hit on a great back...their time with the team may still end up being shorter if you hit on a different player. I'm pretty squeamish on spending that high of a pick on a RB...when back by committee seems to work so well.

Me personally I think we should get Chubb. But if we did get Barkley I'm not squeamish about it because if you have done your scouting and that player is indeed head and shoulders above the next players you have in your consideration then I think you take the risk because it doesn't always turn out that way.  Thurman Thomas who I compare Barkley too in diffent areas played for 13 years.  12 of them for Buffalo.  Thomas did get selected in the second round though mostly due to a knee injury.  Otherwise I'm sure he would have went high first round. You're not really going to spend too many other 1st round picks on a back.  Every blue moon when a really rare one comes around I think.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

Me personally I think we should get Chubb. But if we did get Barkley I'm not squeamish about it because if you have done your scouting and that player is indeed head and shoulders above the next players you have in your consideration then I think you take the risk because it doesn't always turn out that way.  Thurman Thomas who I compare Barkley too in diffent areas played for 13 years.  12 of them for Buffalo.  Thomas did get selected in the second round though mostly due to a knee injury.  Otherwise I'm sure he would have went high first round. You're not really going to spend too many other 1st round picks on a back.  Every blue moon when a really rare one comes around I think.

I understand...if you consider him generationally talented sure. The thing now..with the bigger, stronger, faster players is that these RBs tend to break down quicker or lose their advantages over the defense faster. Obviously there are some still great backs that have made it to a second and going on third contract...but its a big gamble. With the NFL so much more about matchups I don't need a RB that can do EVERYTHING...is it a positive sure...but when I can get very cheap replacements that combined can each do what 1 guy does and specialize...that works just as well.

[krunk]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I understand...if you consider him generationally talented sure. The thing now..with the bigger, stronger, faster players is that these RBs tend to break down quicker or lose their advantages over the defense faster. Obviously there are some still great backs that have made it to a second and going on third contract...but its a big gamble. With the NFL so much more about matchups I don't need a RB that can do EVERYTHING...is it a positive sure...but when I can get very cheap replacements that combined can each do what 1 guy does and specialize...that works just as well.

If your scouting says things like that then I'm sure that Barkley wouldn't be the first one on your board as BPA.   But every teams scouting is different.

[jshipp23]

40 minutes ago, krunk said:

If your scouting says things like that then I'm sure that Barkley wouldn't be the first one on your board as BPA.   But every teams scouting is different.

What do you think about DT Taven Bryan? I would have a tough time choosing between him and Oko in 2nd..He would bring the pass rush from middle of the line..If we do the double trade back with Bills after acquiring 2 2nds from Jets I would even consider him with 1 of the firsts and add Oko in 2nd..

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

What do you think about DT Taven Bryan? I would have a tough time choosing between him and Oko in 2nd..He would bring the pass rush from middle of the line..

Like Bryan a lot!  If we get him we'll probably get rid of Margus Hunt most likely.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Like Bryan a lot!  If we get him we'll probably get rid of Margus Hunt most likely.

Yeah...Their are a lot of ways we can go..I would forget Barkley if we pull off the double trade back with Jets then Bills..That is becoming my dream scenario now and quickest way to improve whole team..

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

What do you think about DT Taven Bryan? I would have a tough time choosing between him and Oko in 2nd..He would bring the pass rush from middle of the line..

Yeah I think him and Hassan Ridgeway would be good together.   Also think Grover Stewart will be a lot better in a 1 gap scheme with his athleticism and strength.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Yeah I think him and Hassan Ridgeway would be good together.   Also think Grover Stewart will be a lot better in a 1 gap scheme with his athleticism and strength.

I think Grover is gonna surprise people..He is a rare athlete for his size..

[dgambill]

57 minutes ago, krunk said:

If your scouting says things like that then I'm sure that Barkley wouldn't be the first one on your board as BPA.   But every teams scouting is different.

Oh sure. He has first round worthy talent. I think he has special ability but its just how valuable is a pro bowl running back..if I can get a couple lesser backs that with similar amount of carries and plays can still get me the same yardage. If I was a team built on defense and controlling the ball or if I had a pretty complete team with a good OL, or a young qb that needed protection I can see grabbing a top rb. If I desperately need a franchise back or that is the focus of my offense and what I want to build my team around I could take one top 10. With this Colts team...with Luck at qb...I would rather focus on strengthening other areas and using some nice complementary backs that can get the job done. I'm actually pretty high on a couple backs that at the top of round 2 I wouldn't mind landing if they fall to us...so I'm not going to say I don't value a rb...just if I'm investing a once in a decade pick on a positional player...running back is not my first choice....the bang for the buck can be found later or in free agency. I think he will be evaluated high though...the scouting probably says he is a special player....I just think his positional value drops his overall evaluation score to be below say a pretty equally talented pass rusher or left tackle or corner. I'll be excited no matter who we pick...but there are some reasons beyond just how talented he is that might be why a team may pass...and to me those are perfectly legit.

[Fluke_33]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Regarding the OLB from Oklahoma.....

 

Here's a fun fact about our GM from his first draft with the Colts.

 

Chris Ballard drafted the two largest players in the 2017 draft.

 

He drafted 358 pound Zack Banner and 347 pound George Stewart.

 

I appreciate that one draft is too small a sample size,  but my immeidate reaction would be that Ballard is a size king.   He prefers larger to smaller.    So, this whole,   he's not too small we once had Robert Mathis play the same position thing I think is a pipe dream.    But reasonable people might disagree.     Now, if we can just find some reasonable people?

 

i think this is true for the system we had last year.  He may be going for speed on D now.

[Defjamz26]

19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You really honestly and sincerely don't follow this stuff much -- do you?

 

Would you like to tell us how many DEs in the NFL are 6'1" and 240?   The answer is ZERO but don't take my word for it, go check all 32 rosters to see if I'm wrong.

 

Plus...    if we take Barkley at e and focus on trying to take the kid from OU, what happens if someone takes him before us?

 

And then we're not addressing the OL until round 3....    but let's stay focused on your guy.   We should HOPE we get him as a reason to bypass Chubb who is only the best pass rusher in the draft. 

 

And And the kid us a 3-4 linebacker....

 

If Chubb is taken by Cleve at one or the Giants at two,  then I hope we trade back with a team like the Jets, get a 1, 2, and 3 and take Nelson at 6.  (This way you won't have to worry about taking a FLIPPING guard in the top 5)

Yeah people never want to accept that exceptions to the rule do not change the rule. There are very few Mathis’ and Dumerville’s. Ogbonnia is a carbon copy of his teammate Eric Stryker who came out a few years ago. Under sized to be a pass rusher. I don’t think he’s a legitimate pass rush option either. Like you said there’s no DEs at that size currently in the NFL. 

[HarryTheCat]

19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Chubb is the best pass rusher in the draft.   He's ALSO very good against the run.

 

He has a great motor.   He's great in the clubhouse.   There isn't a player like him every year.   Beyond your Man Crush on Barkley,  I don't understand your anti-Chubb arguments?

Yup. I've watched quite a bit of complete game tape on Chubb, and he is VERY good against the run. He has great ability to shed blocks and find the ball, often in the backfield. I've also seen him run guys down from behind, and quite a few tackles that he's made with one hand, although you have to remember that those are college players, not pros that he's taking down that easily. If a play doesn't go to his side, he still doesn't give up on it, and you'll often see him 20 yards downfield getting in on a tackle. I don't know how he is in the clubhouse, but as long as he isn't a cancer I don't care. You get one shot at a guy like Chubb, and you have to take him at #3, or at most a small trade-down. He won't still be on the board past the first 6 or 7 picks. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I really like Barkley. There will be a couple of plays in every game where he sticks his foot in the ground and breaks off a 30-yard gain. But the rest of his carries are nothing special.