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Chubb or Barkley at #3?


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Who would you rather the Colts draft at #3?  

200 members have voted

  1. 1. Saquon Barkley or Bradley Chubb?

    • Barkley
      90
    • Chubb
      110


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1 hour ago, HectorRoberts said:

I give it to Barkley. In my opinion he’s the best player between the 2. I feel like Chubb is good but not great. It kind of seems like he’s over valued due to the shallow pass rush class this year.

Most accurate post here 

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I'm going with Chubb right now, but like others have said I will not be angry if they decide to go Barkley because I do believe he is the best player in the draft, and a better prospect than Gurley, Elliot, and Fournette.

 

However, this draft is even better than last years draft at running back which produced Dalvin Cook, Kareem Hunt, and Alvin Kamara who were all taken after the 1st round.

 

Pass rushers are hard to find in this league. Demarcus Lawrence is going to be tagged immediately and we all had our hopes up for Melvin Ingram last year before he got tagged. We are not signing a 10-sack guy in free agency that fits our system. Chubb fits that bill perfectly.

 

This topic should definitely be revisited after free agency though. If we don't address the offensive line there, than I'd pick trading down and taking Nelson over both options presented here.

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3 hours ago, csmopar said:

Not really. I don't think there's a QB that truly excited anyone enough to trade up

 

Someone is always willing to trade up to get a QB, especially if all of them are still on the board at pick #3.  One of the QB needy teams would definitely prefer one over the others and jump up to get their guy. If you are a QB needy team you have to role the dice and try to get a QB, they can't sit around and wait for the next big name to come out of college, and hope they are in a position to get them.

 

Also once we get past the SB and the media shifts its attention toward the draft the hype train will drive the QBs up the board.

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16 hours ago, Buddy Lee said:

Barkley has one trait similar to what some dislike about Marlon Mack. Barkley shows a tendency to go for the home run. Rather than take the two or three yards where he is supposed to run between tackles he will fairly often retreat, sometimes reversing field, and end up losing several yards. Can this be coached out of Barkley? I don't know. I also don't know what the PSU coaches wanted him to do.

 

 

Overall, an excellent post, but I really want to focus on this part. Though even if Barkley didn't have this issue, I still wouldn't take him at #3.. I don't think RB is worth it.

 

Barkley doesn't hit lanes inside hard, with violence of someone like Gurley who was just savage at it in college. He tries to bounce outside, to an open space, where he is absolutely fantastic so it's understandable. Just as a pure runner, I don't think he's the best RB prospect to come out in recent years. If the hole isn't there inside, he has bad tendency to stop moving his feet. As you said, can it be coached out of him? And why does it happen. Is he little soft? Overcompensating for bad O-line? Or something else that can be coached out of him?

 

College football is different than NFL and though Barkley obviously had bad OL, the decision making before LOS for RB is crucial imo. That's one thing where prospects can be evaluated equally, no matter what scheme, competition or OL talent they run behind.

 

So.. Maybe Barkley won't be bell-cow back? But more like Reggie Bush? Reggie Bush didn't become a great runner until later in his career when his athleticism had declined. How soon will it happen with Barkley? However, there is no denying his athleticism and talent as a receiver. So the ideal usage for him might be more similar to how many scatbacks are used.. But he would probably be even bigger mismatch in the passing game and better runner than best scatbacks in the game today (Lewis, White, Riddick etc.). Or just bigger, more athletic and better pure runner than McCaffrey. I'd actually be more willing to use high pick on that kind of player than RB like Gurley, Elliott and Fournette.

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3 hours ago, Finball said:

 

Overall, an excellent post, but I really want to focus on this part. Though even if Barkley didn't have this issue, I still wouldn't take him at #3.. I don't think RB is worth it.

 

Barkley doesn't hit lanes inside hard, with violence of someone like Gurley who was just savage at it in college. He tries to bounce outside, to an open space, where he is absolutely fantastic so it's understandable. Just as a pure runner, I don't think he's the best RB prospect to come out in recent years. If the hole isn't there inside, he has bad tendency to stop moving his feet. As you said, can it be coached out of him? And why does it happen. Is he little soft? Overcompensating for bad O-line? Or something else that can be coached out of him?

 

College football is different than NFL and though Barkley obviously had bad OL, the decision making before LOS for RB is crucial imo. That's one thing where prospects can be evaluated equally, no matter what scheme, competition or OL talent they run behind.

 

So.. Maybe Barkley won't be bell-cow back? But more like Reggie Bush? Reggie Bush didn't become a great runner until later in his career when his athleticism had declined. How soon will it happen with Barkley? However, there is no denying his athleticism and talent as a receiver. So the ideal usage for him might be more similar to how many scatbacks are used.. But he would probably be even bigger mismatch in the passing game and better runner than best scatbacks in the game today (Lewis, White, Riddick etc.). Or just bigger, more athletic and better pure runner than McCaffrey. I'd actually be more willing to use high pick on that kind of player than RB like Gurley, Elliott and Fournette.

I agree with you about his running "nature",or tendencies which I don't particularly like. I think I can already answer your question about if he is soft though. I have seen him, when it's goal to go at the 3 or 4 yard line, really violently attack the middle with zero hesitation. I've seen him knock linemen backwards and move the pile. I've seen it many times. So, for that reason, I know he isn't soft at all. But in other areas of the field I see exactly what you are describing. Just as an aside, I have also seen him channel Cam Newton Superman and vault high over the pile to score a few touchdowns. So, in general, he's a great gpal to go back.

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16 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I keep going back and fourth between the two because I think Barkley is a better player but it’s much harder to get pass rushers than it is running backs.  Honestly the Colts could draft Chubb and still get a very good running back in the second round if they want.  

 

Even then some, including Kieper, think it could be Chubb who is the best player in this draft.  At the moment I think I am leaning towards wanting the Colts to draft Chubb rather than Barkley.  

 

You’re right, logically.  Assuming Chubb is really all that.  I think everyone would say he’s a great player, but not a generational type like Suh for example. 

 

Everyone say Barkley is the next Zeke, maybe better.  

 

Hard decision.  

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Let's take a look at the teams remaining in this year's playoffs on the defensive side of the ball:

Minnesota: #1 ranked scoring defense

Jacksonville: #2 ranked scoring defense

Philly: #4 ranked scoring defense

New England: #5 ranked scoring defense

 

Now let's look at their top RBs:

Minnesota: Latavius Murray - acquired via free agency, originally a 6th round pick

Jacksonville: Leonard Fournette - 4th overall pick

Philly: LaGarrette Blount - acquired via free agency, originally an undrafted rookie

New England: Dion Lewis - acquired via free agency, originally a 5th round pick

 

I think that settles it as to whether a strong defense or a top RB is required to win.  All of the defenses are top 5 in scoring, but 3/4 RBs were originally late round picks or undrafted.

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1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

Let's take a look at the teams remaining in this year's playoffs on the defensive side of the ball:

Minnesota: #1 ranked scoring defense

Jacksonville: #2 ranked scoring defense

Philly: #4 ranked scoring defense

New England: #5 ranked scoring defense

 

Now let's look at their top RBs:

Minnesota: Latavius Murray - acquired via free agency, originally a 6th round pick

Jacksonville: Leonard Fournette - 4th overall pick

Philly: LaGarrette Blount - acquired via free agency, originally an undrafted rookie

New England: Dion Lewis - acquired via free agency, originally a 5th round pick

 

I think that settles it as to whether a strong defense or a top RB is required to win.  All of the defenses are top 5 in scoring, but 3/4 RBs were originally late round picks or undrafted.

I think you dropped the mic on that one.

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Just sharing some stats, I felt the way many do, the only way to get an elite pass rusher was to draft them at the top of the draft and in response to the many posts about- you can get a really good RB-later in the draft, although great ones-later in the draft-not as likely. 

the top 10 sack leaders this year: 

Chandler Jones- drafted #21 overall

Calais Campbell- 2nd rd,#50

Demarcus Lawrence- 2nd rd,#34

Everson Griffen-4th rd, #100

Cameron Jordan-#24 overall

Ryan Kerrigan-#16 overall

Joey Bosa- #3 overall

Cameron Heyward-31st overall

Ezikeal Ansah- #5 overall

Yannick Ngakoue- 3rd rd,#69

 

2 out of 10 picked in the first half of the first round

 

Dwight Freeney-11th overall

Robert Mathis- 5th rd, #138

 

Maaaaaaaaybe, you don't have to get an edge rusher in the top 5-10, of the draft, maaaaaaaaaybe, whats more important is having a great scouting department, that can find talent.

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5 minutes ago, COLTS7 said:

Just sharing some stats, I felt the way many do, the only way to get an elite pass rusher was to draft them at the top of the draft and in response to the many posts about- you can get a really good RB-later in the draft, although great ones-later in the draft-not as likely. 

the top 10 sack leaders this year: 

Chandler Jones- drafted #21 overall

Calais Campbell- 2nd rd,#50

Demarcus Lawrence- 2nd rd,#34

Everson Griffen-4th rd, #100

Cameron Jordan-#24 overall

Ryan Kerrigan-#16 overall

Joey Bosa- #3 overall

Cameron Heyward-31st overall

Ezikeal Ansah- #5 overall

Yannick Ngakoue- 3rd rd,#69

 

2 out of 10 picked in the first half of the first round

 

Dwight Freeney-11th overall

Robert Mathis- 5th rd, #138

 

Maaaaaaaaybe, you don't have to get an edge rusher in the top 5-10, of the draft, maaaaaaaaaybe, whats more important is having a great scouting department, that can find talent.

 

I get it, it’s the old ‘there's first round talent late in the draft’ argument.  There is.  You can get the greatest QB ever in the 6th round.  

 

You can also win the lottery with one ticket.  

 

But your odds are a lot better if you buy half the tickets they sell.  That’s sort of like the draft, the higher the pick, the better chance you have of a player working out.  

 

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4 minutes ago, COLTS7 said:

Just sharing some stats, I felt the way many do, the only way to get an elite pass rusher was to draft them at the top of the draft and in response to the many posts about- you can get a really good RB-later in the draft, although great ones-later in the draft-not as likely. 

the top 10 sack leaders this year: 

Chandler Jones- drafted #21 overall

Calais Campbell- 2nd rd,#50

Demarcus Lawrence- 2nd rd,#34

Everson Griffen-4th rd, #100

Cameron Jordan-#24 overall

Ryan Kerrigan-#16 overall

Joey Bosa- #3 overall

Cameron Heyward-31st overall

Ezikeal Ansah- #5 overall

Yannick Ngakoue- 3rd rd,#69

 

2 out of 10 picked in the first half of the first round

 

Dwight Freeney-11th overall

Robert Mathis- 5th rd, #138

 

Maaaaaaaaybe, you don't have to get an edge rusher in the top 5-10, of the draft, maaaaaaaaaybe, whats more important is having a great scouting department, that can find talent.

The thing is we have one #3 pick in round one. A bird in hand is worth more than a gamble. 7 of these players you mentioned were drafted in the first round. As I said, we only have one pick in the first round. Pass rush is our #1 priority and is needed to win games. It is time to finally work on the defense when given the chance.

I don't have to say maaaaaaybe to know that.

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13 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Let's take a look at the teams remaining in this year's playoffs on the defensive side of the ball:

Minnesota: #1 ranked scoring defense

Jacksonville: #2 ranked scoring defense

Philly: #4 ranked scoring defense

New England: #5 ranked scoring defense

 

Now let's look at their top RBs:

Minnesota: Latavius Murray - acquired via free agency, originally a 6th round pick

Jacksonville: Leonard Fournette - 4th overall pick

Philly: LaGarrette Blount - acquired via free agency, originally an undrafted rookie

New England: Dion Lewis - acquired via free agency, originally a 5th round pick

 

I think that settles it as to whether a strong defense or a top RB is required to win.  All of the defenses are top 5 in scoring, but 3/4 RBs were originally late round picks or undrafted.

 

Excellent points.  Like @crazycolt1 said, you dropped the mike. 

 

Would you also also say Jax won their last playoff game with offense?  Vikings same, and should have lost to a team with a better offense?  NE won because the Titans has no offense?  

 

Just an observation.  Obviously, both sides of the ball are important.  But I can’t argue, a RB can’t carry a team.  He can only be a great supplement to improve the offensive options.  

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Watched plenty on Chubb film and his TFL's and sacks were only because he was unblocked/untouched.  I can't remember an instance where he bull rushed a lineman for a TFL or sack. Also seemed like he'd over rush when he got into the backfield (think Werner).

 

I don't get the hype. 

  

That being said, I'm very skeptical Barkley can be successful in the NFL.    

Edge rushers struggle with the speed of the NFL.  

He's awesome in the open though.  

  

I would trade back and get more picks.

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1 hour ago, GoDeep said:

You can get good production out of 2nd tier running backs. Not true with OLB/DEs.

 

This should be Chubb all day.

I feel like Chubb is being overvalued.  

  

I just don't see it. He almost seems like a project because the size and speed is there, but his technique and football sense is severely lacking. I am not impressed by his tape.

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For years we complained that we don't have a pass rush.  That everyone wants at least a top ten defense.  That's not going to happen if we don't start picking defense in the first round.  Here is our chance to get a good one for years at a good price ( Bradley Chubb).  It's been said before, let's give Luck some help on D.  I'm all for improving our running game but it's much harder to get good pass rusher later in the draft where on the other hand you can find good backs anywhere.

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I’d expect an offer to trade down to be too good to pass up.  Get Landry or key.   Or maybe both with a trade to the bills.   Then in 2019 the pass rush should be healthy.  

If not take fitz at 3.  I think he’s the true superstar in this draft 

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I'm not sold on Chubb. Even then the sold called great pass rushers from past didn't do much either. Mario Williams, Peppers come to mind right away. I would trade down and get the ND guard who is already better than most NFL guards. Protect the QB, run the ball and chew up clock makes defense better with giving them more rest

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2 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I feel like Chubb is being overvalued.  

  

I just don't see it. He almost seems like a project because the size and speed is there, but his technique and football sense is severely lacking. I am not impressed by his tape.

Pro coaching can fix that. That is exactly why hiring the right DC is important.  It seems way too many are obsessed with McDaniels and what he may be able to do with the offense when this team needs a DC that can bring just as much if not more to the table. With Luck, just him being on the field can make a huge difference but a bad defense can't be masked while it's being worked on.

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12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I'm not sold on Chubb. Even then the sold called great pass rushers from past didn't do much either. Mario Williams, Peppers come to mind right away. I would trade down and get the ND guard who is already better than most NFL guards. Protect the QB, run the ball and chew up clock makes defense better with giving them more rest

Having a good pass rush would bring more three and outs. Thus the defense is on the sidelines. The other team cant score if their QB is stopped. We wouldn't need our offense to score 25-30 points a game to win.

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The question isn't simply running back vs. pass rusher.

 

The question is one of the best running back prospects of all-time vs. a pass rusher who would be a mid-1st round pick in most drafts.

 

If we were looking at prospects of the same level, then yeah, I'd probably lean towards the pass rusher, but we're not. We're talking about the Andrew Luck of running backs, to pair up with the Andrew Luck of quarterbacks.

 

As far as being able to find running backs throughout the draft . . . true, but the same can be said for elite pass rushers. Here are the top 10 finishers in sacks the past two seasons:

 

2017

21 (Chandler Jones)
50 (Calais Campbell)
34 (DeMarcus Lawrence)
100 (Everson Griffen)
24 (Cameron Jordan)
16 (Ryan Kerrigan)
3 (Joey Bosa)
5 (Ezekiel Ansah)
31 (Cameron Hayward)
69 (Yannick Ngakoue)

 

2016

8 (Vic Beasley)
2 (Von Miller)
UFA (Lorenzo Alexander)
58 (Markus Golden)
88 (Danielle Hunter)
92 (Cliff Avril)
UFA (Cameron Wake)
21 (Chandler Jones)
16 (Ryan Kerrigan)
5 (Khalil Mack)
28 (Nick Perry)

167 (Erik Walden)

 

There's plenty of pass rushing talent outside of round one.

 

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3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Pro coaching can fix that. That is exactly why hiring the right DC is important.  It seems way too many are obsessed with McDaniels and what he may be able to do with the offense when this team needs a DC that can bring just as much if not more to the table. With Luck, just him being on the field can make a huge difference but a bad defense can't be masked while it's being worked on.

Yeah, he needs to lose some weight to help his speed and Mathis if still with the team can help with technic. 

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