If we change to a 4-3 from the 3-4?

[Jdubu]

If we make the switch to a 4-3, which players that we currently have will just not fit into the scheme? 

 

In the 4-3, what effect, if any, does it create from the backend? The safeties and cb’s? 

 

Is it more or less normal for press man to be accompanied with a certain scheme or is press and zone just a product of the DC overall scheme? 

 

I will assume we would run more hybrid type 4-3 3-4 schemes until we draft a few cycles towards the defense we really want to dedicate to. I just don’t want to see any version that is a slow bleed defense, the dreaded prevent type or the poorly executed Tampa two type. 

 

[bWild]

3 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

If we make the switch to a 4-3, which players that we currently have will just not fit into the scheme? 

 

In the 4-3, what effect, if any, does it create from the backend? The safeties and cb’s? 

 

Is it more or less normal for press man to be accompanied with a certain scheme or is press and zone just a product of the DC overall scheme? 

 

I will assume we would run more hybrid type 4-3 3-4 schemes until we draft a few cycles towards the defense we really want to dedicate to. I just don’t want to see any version that is a slow bleed defense, the dreaded prevent type or the poorly executed Tampa two type. 

 

 

The 4-3 and 3-4 are just defensive fronts. The fact of the matter is that this isn’t as prevalent as it used to be in the NFL, what with most teams resorting to hybrid fronts and about 75% of defensive playcalls operating out of variations of Nickel formations. Personally, I wouldn’t read too much into who fits and who doesn’t. 

[DaColts85]

^^ This!

3-4 or 4-3 does not effect much on the backend at all.  You still need someone getting to the QB regardless.  If we have our DE/OLB with a hand down or standing up really is the man difference but my guess is we would have a lot of variations with hybrids being the thing.

[bWild]

But to further answer your questions, the only effect a 4-3 or 3-4 front would be where the LB’s are coming from to drop into coverage. The defensive backs have their own separate coverage calls. The press man, man, zone, and zone press calls all vary based upon the playcall and gameplan. 

[Smonroe]

2 minutes ago, bWild said:

 

The 4-3 and 3-4 are just defensive fronts. The fact of the matter is that this isn’t as prevalent as it used to be in the NFL, what with most teams resorting to hybrid fronts and about 75% of defensive playcalls operating out of variations of Nickel formations. Personally, I wouldn’t read too much into who fits and who doesn’t. 

 

We were in a sub package, 4-2-5, more than a 3-4 anyway.  

 

With he personnel we have now, we’re actually suited better for the 4-3 simply because we really didn’t have the OLBs you need to apply pressure in a 3-4.  

[bWild]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

We were in a sub package, 4-2-5, more than a 3-4 anyway.  

 

With he personnel we have now, we’re actually suited better for the 4-3 simply because we really didn’t have the OLBs you need to apply pressure in a 3-4.  

 

My point exactly! We spent the vast majority of our season in Nickel. Most teams do this nowadays to give more help on the backend in pass coverage. We’re seeing larger defensive backs more frequently as well because teams want a DB that can still come down and play the run while holding up against the punishment. 

[chad72]

We still have a shortage of very good LBs, no matter which base front we trot out there.  

[Coltsfanforlife12]

I agree with the above postered need linebackersand pass rushers.  The switch doesn’t affect a lot of our team. Basham, Mingo and sheard will move to end.  Simon I’m guessing will play one of the OLB spots.  The one guy I’m not convinced if he fits is Anderson.  He’s the perfect size for a 3-4 end but he lacks the quickness to play 4-3 end and I’m not convinced he has the size to play DT.  The guy on our team I think it will help the most is Basham.  He was a 4-3 end in college and I never really saw him being able to make the transition to 3-4 OLB.

[Defjamz26]

On 1/19/2018 at 10:31 AM, Smonroe said:

 

We were in a sub package, 4-2-5, more than a 3-4 anyway.  

 

With he personnel we have now, we’re actually suited better for the 4-3 simply because we really didn’t have the OLBs you need to apply pressure in a 3-4.  

I’ve been saying forever the Colts aren’t a real 3-4 team. That’s why I don’t get why people think we’ll have trouble converting. 

[Dark Superman]

On 1/19/2018 at 10:16 AM, Jdubu said:

If we make the switch to a 4-3, which players that we currently have will just not fit into the scheme? 

 

In the 4-3, what effect, if any, does it create from the backend? The safeties and cb’s? 

 

Is it more or less normal for press man to be accompanied with a certain scheme or is press and zone just a product of the DC overall scheme? 

 

I will assume we would run more hybrid type 4-3 3-4 schemes until we draft a few cycles towards the defense we really want to dedicate to. I just don’t want to see any version that is a slow bleed defense, the dreaded prevent type or the poorly executed Tampa two type. 

 

Not at all. Everyone Ballard signed or drafted last year to multiple year deals can play in both schemes. Chris Ballard knew that Pagano was a one-year rental, and the next coach he brought in would run a 4-3. Players like Simon, Sheard, Hankins, etc, can all play both schemes.

 

Ballard wasn't going to waste time and money on guys who didn't fit into his future plans. Chris Ballard is smart and always seems to be 2-3 steps ahead of everyone else.

 

 

[Nesjan3]

In Madden with a 3-4 i need 2 good ILB and 1 NT, with 4-3 i need 2 good athletic DT and 1 good ILB  in all seriousness though most NFL teams run hybrid defensive fronts nowadays. I would say we would be more adapt to the 4-3 with our athletic Dline, if anything we have had players not fit into the schemes we were trying to run (some kind of 3-4?)

[Alex22]

i think there is a huge difference between a traditional 4-3 and 3-4. Teams like the vikings and seahawks run a hybrid front which is why the new fanboys might be confused. We never ran a hybrid front under chucky just plain old 3-4 base. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

My post will be different from most in this thread.      It won't be popular, but that's OK....

 

It's been mostly my experience that the lineman needed for a 4-3 and a 3-4 are NOT the same.     Because what they're asked to do is not the same.

 

In a 4-3, the lineman need to be more athletic and aggressive.   Because they're the playmakers trying to pressure/sack the QB or bring down the RB.       In a 3-4,  the lineman are going to be heavier and their job is to hold up the O-lineman and allow the linebackers to make the plays.   The OLB's will try to pressure the QB,  the ILB will try to bring down the RB.      The responsibilities are different.

 

Is this a broad generalization.    Sure, somewhat.    But saying any lineman can make the adjustments these days is not true.     Some can.    But not all.      I'm not sure that Anderson or Wood are natural fits for a 4-3.    They may be able to do OK in it until they can be replaced,  but I don't see them excelling in a 4-3.    Hankins should be able to.   Hunt might be able too.     Same with Ridgeway,  he might do pretty well.     Woods and Anderson?    Not so sure.

 

Think of the best 4-3's in the last 10 years....    The two Giants Super Bowl teams.    The Seattle front 4.   The Carolina front 4.     The current Minnesota front 4.     The Rams front four of a few years ago.     Attacking lineman.   Yes,  there are some 3-4 attacking schemes...   the 1-gap schemes.    But plenty of 3-4 defenses play the more traditional 2-gap schemes.    And those lineman aren't the same as the 4-3 guys.

 

It's 1a when I'm posting this....     will be interesting to read the responses when I wake up...

 

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, Coltsfanforlife12 said:

I agree with the above postered need linebackersand pass rushers.  The switch doesn’t affect a lot of our team. Basham, Mingo and sheard will move to end.  Simon I’m guessing will play one of the OLB spots.  The one guy I’m not convinced if he fits is Anderson.  He’s the perfect size for a 3-4 end but he lacks the quickness to play 4-3 end and I’m not convinced he has the size to play DT.  The guy on our team I think it will help the most is Basham.  He was a 4-3 end in college and I never really saw him being able to make the transition to 3-4 OLB.

The post-knee Anderson looks bigger to me than before.  I think he could still get good push from the middle and hold up pretty well against the run in a rotation.  The question would be would he sign elsewhere to where he would be a more natural fit, but if we retained him I think he definitely would be useful.

[Coltsfanforlife12]

52 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The post-knee Anderson looks bigger to me than before.  I think he could still get good push from the middle and hold up pretty well against the run in a rotation.  The question would be would he sign elsewhere to where he would be a more natural fit, but if we retained him I think he definitely would be useful.

I don’t question his ability at all.  I question whether he has the size to Olaf 4-3 DT.  He’s 300 pounds and guards are typically somewhere between 310 and 330.  He’s going up against guys that are bigger than him.

[Smonroe]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

My post will be different from most in this thread.      It won't be popular, but that's OK....

 

It's been mostly my experience that the lineman needed for a 4-3 and a 3-4 are NOT the same.     Because what they're asked to do is not the same.

 

In a 4-3, the lineman need to be more athletic and aggressive.   Because they're the playmakers trying to pressure/sack the QB or bring down the RB.       In a 3-4,  the lineman are going to be heavier and their job is to hold up the O-lineman and allow the linebackers to make the plays.   The OLB's will try to pressure the QB,  the ILB will try to bring down the RB.      The responsibilities are different.

 

Is this a broad generalization.    Sure, somewhat.    But saying any lineman can make the adjustments these days is not true.     Some can.    But not all.      I'm not sure that Anderson or Wood are natural fits for a 4-3.    They may be able to do OK in it until they can be replaced,  but I don't see them excelling in a 4-3.    Hankins should be able to.   Hunt might be able too.     Same with Ridgeway,  he might do pretty well.     Woods and Anderson?    Not so sure.

 

Think of the best 4-3's in the last 10 years....    The two Giants Super Bowl teams.    The Seattle front 4.   The Carolina front 4.     The current Minnesota front 4.     The Rams front four of a few years ago.     Attacking lineman.   Yes,  there are some 3-4 attacking schemes...   the 1-gap schemes.    But plenty of 3-4 defenses play the more traditional 2-gap schemes.    And those lineman aren't the same as the 4-3 guys.

 

It's 1a when I'm posting this....     will be interesting to read the responses when I wake up...

 

 

Simply put, you’re correct in theory.  But we have 1 technique guys who also play the three and three that play the 5.  Woods and Anderson play the 4-3 fine, check the tape. 

 

Our run D scheme is and would be the same.  It was pretty successful.

 

What youre saying (not to put words in your mouth) is that we don’t have classic DE or DT pass rushers.  That’s sort of true no matter which base D we run.  

 

Short answer, but I didn’t think anyone wanted a football 101 lesson.  

[Defjamz26]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

My post will be different from most in this thread.      It won't be popular, but that's OK....

 

It's been mostly my experience that the lineman needed for a 4-3 and a 3-4 are NOT the same.     Because what they're asked to do is not the same.

 

In a 4-3, the lineman need to be more athletic and aggressive.   Because they're the playmakers trying to pressure/sack the QB or bring down the RB.       In a 3-4,  the lineman are going to be heavier and their job is to hold up the O-lineman and allow the linebackers to make the plays.   The OLB's will try to pressure the QB,  the ILB will try to bring down the RB.      The responsibilities are different.

 

Is this a broad generalization.    Sure, somewhat.    But saying any lineman can make the adjustments these days is not true.     Some can.    But not all.      I'm not sure that Anderson or Wood are natural fits for a 4-3.    They may be able to do OK in it until they can be replaced,  but I don't see them excelling in a 4-3.    Hankins should be able to.   Hunt might be able too.     Same with Ridgeway,  he might do pretty well.     Woods and Anderson?    Not so sure.

 

Think of the best 4-3's in the last 10 years....    The two Giants Super Bowl teams.    The Seattle front 4.   The Carolina front 4.     The current Minnesota front 4.     The Rams front four of a few years ago.     Attacking lineman.   Yes,  there are some 3-4 attacking schemes...   the 1-gap schemes.    But plenty of 3-4 defenses play the more traditional 2-gap schemes.    And those lineman aren't the same as the 4-3 guys.

 

It's 1a when I'm posting this....     will be interesting to read the responses when I wake up...

 

No you’re actually right. The player positions do differ. The she Rushers for example. In a 3-4 the OLBs arr standing up and the usually win with speed and technique. That’s why the average ILB is 240-250 lbs. In a 4-3 your DEs are rushing the passer. They’re down lineman who also help defend the run and win with power and technique. That’s why an edge rusher coming out of college at 6’4” 275 is a fit in a 4-3. People nowadays like to act like there’s no difference in schemes nowadays because of all the hybrid fronts being ran but there are still major differences. There are players don’t fit in certain systems.

[Smonroe]

32 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

No you’re actually right. The player positions do differ. The she Rushers for example. In a 3-4 the OLBs arr standing up and the usually win with speed and technique. That’s why the average ILB is 240-250 lbs. In a 4-3 your DEs are rushing the passer. They’re down lineman who also help defend the run and win with power and technique. That’s why an edge rusher coming out of college at 6’4” 275 is a fit in a 4-3. People nowadays like to act like there’s no difference in schemes nowadays because of all the hybrid fronts being ran but there are still major differences. There are players don’t fit in certain systems.

 

I bet you can come up with two examples of DE’s who were smaller than 6’4” 275 and did pretty well in the 4-3 most of their careers.

[oldunclemark]

11 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I bet you can come up with two examples of DE’s who were smaller than 6’4” 275 and did pretty well in the 4-3 most of their careers.

Oooh...Ohhhh       I can!

[Defjamz26]

56 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I bet you can come up with two examples of DE’s who were smaller than 6’4” 275 and did pretty well in the 4-3 most of their careers.

Freeney and Mathis haha. Their flaw was that they weren’t good against the run.