RUMOR: Possible Important Luck Health Update....

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

No expert, but shoulder avascular necrosis is apparently a thing.

It is. But that's why I said it depends on what exactly was repaired. If it's the superior labrum as we've been told, there's never any blood flow ever. 

[Shadow_Creek]

The only reason nagy didn't sign with us is because we simply did not want him. End of discussion hands down it had nothing to do with our roster Luck or anything else. Now if we signed him he would have accepted.

[Fisticuffs111]

I'm not jumping to believe this rumor but I'm also not taking Stephen Holders 100th "Luck's fine from what I gather" tweet too seriously either. Obviously Holder has more credit but nothing he's said in his vague tweets has given me as much confidence as it apparently has to some.

All I know is I wouldn't be surprised either way what's going on. 

[#12.]

Apparently corticosteroids are the number one cause of shoulder avascular necrosis.  If Luck was shot up in order to play with the injury for a season plus... 

 

Well, let's hope not.

[Dingus McGirt]

"What, Luck's shoulder is not going to recover?"

 

"The team has a young, forward-thinking GM?"

 

"The team has an owner willing to do whatever it takes to make the team successful?" 

 

"Wow, the team has a completely revamped and young defense?"

 

"Oh my, the team has the 3rd pick in the upcoming draft, and is positioned to address several positions of need with good young talent?"

 

"Hmmm, the team has ample cap space to continue the rebuild that is already underway?"

 

"Nah, I'll pass."

 

gtho.

 

[bradgt04]

Doesn’t that part of the shoulder already have a lack of blood flow?  And doesn’t the surgery cause even less?  I thought the injections were supposed to help the blood flow issue helping the body heal properly.  I’m not any sort of medical professional it’s just from stuff I’ve read

[Valpo2004]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

As you know, when you're a new member,  you can't start a thread for five days.     Well,   there's a new member here, and he posted some possible interesting news on Luck,  but it's inside a thread,  and no one has responded to it.     I'm guessing because the poster is new and so no one knows what to make of it.

 

The news is NOT good and I thought it important enough to be worthy of starting it's own thread.      If the Mods disagree,  so be it.     But I wanted to put this out there for as many people to see as possible.       You decide what you think it's worth.

 

I'm cutting and pasting the post....

 

Take this for what its worth.  Was hoping to making this a topic on the forum.  I have a buddy that knows someone that works in the chiefs organization.  He has heard that Nagy said that he went to chicago because he was told that lucks shoulder still has no blood flow.  I guess bo jackson never got his blood flow back which obviously lead to retirement.   Hope this is false but my buddy is a pretty honest dude.  And he def has a friend that works in the chiefs organization.  I am also not saying that nagy was offered the position.  

 

My read of this is as follows.....     Even if true,  this is very likely only part of the story.    That there's far more to this story than is here.     I'm trying not to get too worked up about it.     When the new coach is hired there will be ample opportunity for the media to pepper Ballard with questions about Luck and whether this rumor is indeed true.

 

 

•  

 

I strongly question anything that forum posters said they have heard from friends or family.  

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I think there is a very real possibility that the Bears said this “rumor” to Nagy in an effort to influence him to choose them over us.  Could very well be a “come coach Mitch because we’re hearing rumors that Luck has no blood flow in his shoulder and is likely to retire.”  Nagy takes that info & repeats it to a friend in KC as the reason he chose the Bears over us.

 

Let’s say this rumor is true, I can very easily see McDaniels hearing this info & getting the assurance that the Colts will be using a pick to get the QB of his choosing and it doesn’t have to be a top pick.  Brady nor Jimmy G were top 10 picks.  I can easily see us trading down & still getting a Mayfield or Josh Allen or another diamond in the rough.  Plus he’s got Brissett to bridge the gap while the youngster learns the system...  

 

Plus it helps to have a vet that’s not “too great” that you can build confidence by beating out for the job.  I hope it’s not true but there’s light at the end of the tunnel for us regardless. As long as we still get McDaniels. No Luck or McDaniels could be a problem. 

McDaniel's knows Brissett and is well aware of his ability. Ballard has said all along he wouldn't hire any coach who wanted to come here just to coach Luck. I believe him.

[The Fish]

34 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

No expert, but shoulder avascular necrosis is apparently a thing.

It can happen in the hip too.. I'm dealing with it now.. Lot's of stretching and massage to manage the pain and try to avoid the knife.

[Smoke317]

21 minutes ago, #12. said:

Apparently corticosteroids are the number one cause of shoulder avascular necrosis.  If Luck was shot up in order to play with the injury for a season plus... 

 

Well, let's hope not.

I just looked it up and everything you posted is true.  If Grigson and Pagano let Luck get cortisone injections in order to play 2 years ago, I will be beyond *.  Those clowns should have never been given the opportunity to coach or manage a once in a generation talent like Luck.  He made both of them look good and all they did was use him up by riding his coattails. 

 

And all of this reflects back on Irsay (whom I like).  Should have never hired them to begin with then compounded the situation by retaining them...  I hope that this is all just speculation because I'd hate to see a great talent and seemingly really good person in Luck have his career ended like this.  As I posted earlier, there are still ways around this.  But we can't afford to lose Luck and miss out on McDaniels or we'll be in a world of hurt.

[shasta519]

So Mularkey and TEN part ways, leaving that job open to McDaniels...and Luck could be done? 

 

I should have just stayed asleep this morning.

[Coltsfan0112]

If this were true, Mcdaniels wouldn't even consider the Colts job and I think it would be reported already that Luck would need another surgery to fix it.. Nagy did get interviewed a couple weeks ago so I'm assuming it would have been reported by now.

[IinD]

3 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

So Mularkey and TEN part ways, leaving that job open to McDaniels...and Luck could be done? 

 

I should have just stayed asleep this morning.

May as well hire Mularkey since we apparently will have a one armed QB. Won't make a difference now.

[hoosierhawk]

8 hours ago, Jbatc18 said:

The news of this supposedly did make kansas city sports talk airwaves.  Thanks newcoltsfan for bringing this up.  I am "new" to this board as far as posting.  Been following this board since I knew it existed.  Probably 10 years now.  Longtime colts fan here and am sorry if im scaring people.  Hoping its not true.  I tend to put trust in this team more than i should but after this past year that has wavered a bit because of this injury.   I have always felt there is more to this injury and when i heard this it made me think a bit.

If this news hit talk radio in KC it would be all over national news and Dakich would have been blasting this all over. In the interview I could see Ballard telling a candidate that for purposes of this interview lets assume Luck may not play that this is about the Colts in the long run not about one player. If they are only coming for Luck it may have been a short interview.

[colt18]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Why is everyone so insistent on blaming the Colts for the way Luck's recovery has gone? 

 Are you saying that the organization didn't completely screw up the management of Luck's shoulder injury from the beginning?

[ThorstenDenmark]

The rumor is true. 

My friend who knows this dude at IKEA, told me that he said that his friend from Sweeden, who knows this guy in Atlanta, told him that, his friend knew one in the chiefs organization, who told him that he knew Nagy, who told him that he just didnt want to live in Indianapolis and favored to live in Chicago, but he then told his friend who we all by now know that I am somewhat connected to, through my friend in IKEA.

 

But naga told my friends fridns who know someone that Lucks shoulder is done. 

[#12.]

17 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

If this were true, Mcdaniels wouldn't even consider the Colts job

Not sure, as even if it were possibly true, there's not much difference between the Giants and Colts jobs. Giants have the #2 pick.  Colts have Brissett and the #3.  The Colts, however, have significantly more cap space. 

 

Of course Tennessee opening up could change things 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 hours ago, IndyD4U said:

Good Grief

 

Charlie Brown!

 

Colts fans every time there is a new "development" about Luck:

[OLD FAN MAN]

9 hours ago, RomanianColtsFan said:

If his arm didn’t have any blood flow it would have fallen off by now.

they used super glue it wont fall off

[IndyScribe]

1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I'm not jumping to believe this rumor but I'm also not taking Stephen Holders 100th "Luck's fine from what I gather" tweet too seriously either. Obviously Holder has more credit but nothing he's said in his vague tweets has given me as much confidence as it apparently has to some.

All I know is I wouldn't be surprised either way what's going on. 

Holder probably doesn't have much to go off of. Luck wants to keep his injury private, so Holder would probably know the basics, like how Luck is doing.

[workinman]

This is nothing but trolling. When Nagy chose Chicago, a sports writer in Chicago posted that Luck's health issue was why Nagy chose the Bears. That story was quickly buried. But it looks like trolls will be trolls. 

 

And I am not calling the poster in this forum a troll.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Even if true, not worried yet. I have said this to at least 50 times on here! I have had the same surgery Andrew's had 3 times twice on the throwing shoulder. I speak from experience of the surgery and having gone 3 rehabs! I would bet that your friends statement is somewhat true!! But not a reason for concern yet. The reason I say that is having gone threw the surgeries and the rehab, I was told REPEATABLY by the surgeon, and physical therapist that the shoulder has TERRIBLE BLOOD FLOW that is limited, and thats part of the reason shoulders take so long to heal. That doesn't mean hes not coming back it just takes time. To increase blood flow they can do a PRP injection. The injection is made by drawing the patients OWN BLOOD, and processing it to higher than normal platelet count and then inject it into the injured area. By doing so it gets your own blood enriched with your own platelets  so there more blood to help the healing process in the injuried area. Wouldn't be surprised if Andrew has had one at all. It is my belief that Andrew will be fine and will be the Colts starting QB week one for the Colts next year!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

I just looked it up and everything you posted is true.  If Grigson and Pagano let Luck get cortisone injections in order to play 2 years ago, I will be beyond *.  Those clowns should have never been given the opportunity to coach or manage a once in a generation talent like Luck.  He made both of them look good and all they did was use him up by riding his coattails. 

 

And all of this reflects back on Irsay (whom I like).  Should have never hired them to begin with then compounded the situation by retaining them...  I hope that this is all just speculation because I'd hate to see a great talent and seemingly really good person in Luck have his career ended like this.  As I posted earlier, there are still ways around this.  But we can't afford to lose Luck and miss out on McDaniels or we'll be in a world of hurt.

Of coarse Luck took some thing for the pain to play. Thinking he didn't would be foolish. And blaming Pagano and Grigson is foolish as well. The player ALWAYS has the final say what gos into his body.

[dgambill]

8 hours ago, SLILLINGTON10 said:

I agree medical details and blood flow is a little bit out there. However, if i am going to be s head coach and setting up off season schedules I would like to know the ball park chances of having my franchise player.  Of course my next question would be asking if we can go get Pat McAfee out of retirement. 

Why? Sanchez was great this year...Pat isn’t going to add anything to this team and Sanchez is cheaper?

[IndyScribe]

5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Why? Sanchez was great this year...Pat isn’t going to add anything to this team and Sanchez is cheaper?

Yeah, Rigoberto has been good for the Colts. Sanchez is younger as well.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, colt18 said:

 Are you saying that the organization didn't completely screw up the management of Luck's shoulder injury from the beginning?

 

No, they didn't. They benched him after he got hurt the first time. He had himself evaluated sometime after that season and chose not to have surgery. That's his choice, not the team's. 

 

Blaming the Colts for his recovery is nonsensical. It's easy to look back and say 'they should have shut him down and forced him to have surgery' two years later, but you know what they say about hindsight. Besides that, no one can know that he wouldn't have had the same issues with his recovery even if he had the operation way sooner. 

 

So no, the organization didn't screw up his shoulder or his recovery. 

[Smoke317]

17 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Of coarse Luck took some thing for the pain to play. Thinking he didn't would be foolish. And blaming Pagano and Grigson is foolish as well. The player ALWAYS has the final say what gos into his body.

Did the player know that long term use of cortisone on his shoulder could lead to avascular necrosis?  And you've never heard the stories of teams pushing players to do things that might be detrimental to their long term health?  A similar situation happened with the running back we had a couple years ago that got the concussion. 

 

So only a fool would think that a team can't or wouldn't influence a player to do something that might not have his best long term interest in mind.  Especially a player like Luck who loves to play and finished a game with internal injuries.  And only a complete fool would absolve Grigson and Pagano of all responsibility in the matter...

[Narcosys]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Why is everyone so insistent on blaming the Colts for the way Luck's recovery has gone? 

Because he played a season and a half with an injured shoulder. It never should have been allowed top get this far.

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No, they didn't. They benched him after he got hurt the first time. He had himself evaluated sometime after that season and chose not to have surgery. That's his choice, not the team's. 

 

Blaming the Colts for his recovery is nonsensical. It's easy to look back and say 'they should have shut him down and forced him to have surgery' two years later, but you know what they say about hindsight. Besides that, no one can know that he wouldn't have had the same issues with his recovery even if he had the operation way sooner. 

 

So no, the organization didn't screw up his shoulder or his recovery. 

Yeah it’s hard to put any of this on Chuck, Irsay, or Grigson. Our doctors maybe...it would be very speculative but the information they were giving Luck about playing through it or the treatments used...the not shutting him down to protect him from himself...an argument could be made if someone had the info...though none on this board does so it’s all speculation. As for the surgery etc...nothing anyone can do...sounds like that it’s a difficult part of the body to get good blood flow to help healing...so it’s been slow going. If there is an even worse issue with blood flow and healing as a result from the surgery...that is scary situation. Is that why he went to Europe...there is a lot of smoke to be no fire....but it could still be a small fire and I hope it’s put out and cleared up by next year because I expect this offseason to be a big one for us...and viewing our division we need to get a lot better because the AFC South is about to be the toughest in our conference.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Because he played a season and a half with an injured shoulder. It never should have been allowed top get this far.

 

Luck was evaluated, but chose to play & not to have surgery. The team accommodated his wishes, not the other way around.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Because he played a season and a half with an injured shoulder. It never should have been allowed top get this far.

 

That's not reasonable at all. 

 

If Luck's shoulder was examined by medical professionals, and they told Luck it was okay to keep playing, and Luck chose to keep playing, should the Colts have forced Luck to have surgery when he didn't want it? You're acting like the Colts forced him NOT to have surgery.

 

Everyone got together and came to the conclusion that he could continue playing. To act like it's the Colts fault that his recovery hasn't gone well is angry finger pointing.

[Jason_]

9 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Because he played a season and a half with an injured shoulder. It never should have been allowed top get this far.

 

No one, not even Irsay, can FORCE Luck to have surgery.  

[Narcosys]

Just now, Superman said:

 

That's not reasonable at all. 

 

If Luck's shoulder was examined by medical professionals, and they told Luck it was okay to keep playing, and Luck chose to keep playing, should the Colts have forced Luck to have surgery when he didn't want it? You're acting like the Colts forced him NOT to have surgery.

 

Everyone got together and came to the conclusion that he could continue playing. To act like it's the Colts fault that his recovery hasn't gone well is angry finger pointing.

 

Then they are clearly the dumbest medical professionals in the NFL. You don't continue playing with a torn labrum. Either they didn't catch it and that makes them incompetent, or they caught it and said it wasn't a big deal, which makes them incompetent.

[Narcosys]

Just now, J@son said:

 

No one, not even Irsay, can FORCE Luck to have surgery.  

But CAN force him to sit on the bench because of injury.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

Then they are clearly the dumbest medical professionals in the NFL. You don't continue playing with a torn labrum. Either they didn't catch it and that makes them incompetent, or they caught it and said it wasn't a big deal, which makes them incompetent.

 

Says the guy on the Internet...

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's not reasonable at all. 

 

If Luck's shoulder was examined by medical professionals, and they told Luck it was okay to keep playing, and Luck chose to keep playing, should the Colts have forced Luck to have surgery when he didn't want it? You're acting like the Colts forced him NOT to have surgery.

 

Everyone got together and came to the conclusion that he could continue playing. To act like it's the Colts fault that his recovery hasn't gone well is angry finger pointing.

I agree...you can’t force luck to have surgery....I don’t know but could he have benefited from being shut down earlier instead of continuing to throw and take hits? I don’t know the medical issues surrounding this case but could the doctors said look....your not playing anymore until your pain free. Whether that is rest or you get the surgery...if they are giving him shots to help from the pain they are complicent in allowing Luck to harm himself. Like I said I don’t know all the facts....but if someone did a case could be made.

[Four2itus]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

I just looked it up and everything you posted is true.  If Grigson and Pagano let Luck get cortisone injections in order to play 2 years ago, I will be beyond *.  Those clowns should have never been given the opportunity to coach or manage a once in a generation talent like Luck. 

The man you are talking about graduated from Stanford with a degree in Architecture, while QB'ing the Cardinals. The idea you propose that he would make stupid decisions, flies in the face of just how driven, thoughtful, and forward planning that man is. I am comfortable believing that they have let Andrew do as he chooses all along. If anything, they have likely over-cautioned him to make sure he makes the right decision. 

[Narcosys]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Says the guy on the Internet...

 

They identified labrum fraying during preseason of 2016. When something is frayed, you don't keep using it over and over. If you don't want to tear it entirely, you fix it. But they didn't. How else would you define incompetence then if this isn't a clear example of it?

 

Furthermore, do you want to clarify as to what you're statement means?

[NewColtsFan]

27 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Did the player know that long term use of cortisone on his shoulder could lead to avascular necrosis?  And you've never heard the stories of teams pushing players to do things that might be detrimental to their long term health?  A similar situation happened with the running back we had a couple years ago that got the concussion. 

 

So only a fool would think that a team can't or wouldn't influence a player to do something that might not have his best long term interest in mind.  Especially a player like Luck who loves to play and finished a game with internal injuries.  And only a complete fool would absolve Grigson and Pagano of all responsibility in the matter...

 

I want to be clear about something....

 

If you have a problem with Grigson for failing to build a proper O-line to protect Luck, I'm fine with that.

 

And if you want to blame Pagano for preferring an offense that lives and died with big chunk plays that are slow to develop and put Luck at considerable risk, I'm fine with that too...

 

But IF you're implying that Grigson and/or Pagano pressured Luck to take medicine or injections that put his health at risk THEN I think you're going where you shouldn't.    None of us knows anything about what goes on behind the scenes.   Just because your both cynical and skeptical doesn't mean you have proof to make that claim.   If you're not making this claim,  then great.    But if you are, I think you should reconsider...   Seriously.

 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

They identified labrum fraying during preseason of 2016. When alleging is frayed, you don't keep using it over and over. If you don't want to rear entirely, you fix it. But they didn't. How else would you define incompetence then if this isn't a clear example of it?

 

He played the entire 2016 season with a less than 100% shoulder, and played pretty well. You're acting like his arm fell off during a game. 

 

You don't know when they identified labrum fraying, or the extent of the damage at that time. You didn't examine his arm, see his scans, check his range of motion, monitor his pain levels, etc. But here you are acting like an armchair shoulder specialist.

 

The informed parties -- Luck, most importantly -- made the decision to hold off on surgery in hopes it wouldn't be needed. I think their informed conclusion is much more valid than the hindsight reactions of fans on the Internet.