After Pittsburgh getting hosed, I'm done with NFL

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

Do you expect coaching changes in Miami or Tampa? Some fans were saying that Gase might be out. I don't see it. Now Tampa may make a change. The owners there don't show much patience with coaches.

I can’t see Gase out when he took them to the playoffs last year and almost had them back this year without his star qb. TB is disfunctional...who knows about them.

[BOTT]

14 hours ago, dgambill said:

Nobody knows anymore. It just isn’t consistent. I’m just tired of replay altogether....it takes way way too long to decide anything and then it’s like an act of Congress with both sides arguing yes or no.  It’s bad for football no matter what.

With refs taking 2 hours to make any replay decision the NFL should limit each team to one challenge per half and remove automatic challenges. And stop with all the huddling up....make a decision and get the game going.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, BOTT said:

With refs taking 2 hours to make any replay decision the NFL should limit each team to one challenge per half and remove automatic challenges. And stop with all the huddling up....make a decision and get the game going.

The game is just slowed down so much. The official doesn’t even need to go over to the tablet....he isn’t even making the decision! If you can’t tell in 30 seconds just leave it the same as the field and move on.

[BOTT]

Just now, dgambill said:

The game is just slowed down so much. The official doesn’t even need to go over to the tablet....he isn’t even making the decision! If you can’t tell in 30 seconds just leave it the same as the field and move on.

Refs need a shot clock for replay lol

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Refs need a shot clock for replay lol

Why not. Why should it last more than a time out? The call in buffalo lasted like 3-4 minutes.

[ColtsBlueFL]

11 hours ago, dgambill said:

The game is just slowed down so much. The official doesn’t even need to go over to the tablet....he isn’t even making the decision! If you can’t tell in 30 seconds just leave it the same as the field and move on.

 

It's true the Ref doesn't make the decision, but he has to have on the headset to hear the call. Besides, Al Riveron in NY cues up the review angle he wants Ref to see, and discuss ruling, then down, ball placement, game clock setting, etc.

 

The call review command center in NYC has 16 stations, each with four 27" ultra HD 4k screens.  A tech is stationed at each one and warns Riveron of a any potential play in his game that may be challenged.  Riveron moves in behind and if challenged puts on a headset.  On the NY screens, the upper right is what the game ref first sees in his review booth.  The lower left screen is what Riveron will cue up to the game ref to demonstrate why a call is made in a certain way.  The lower right screen allows unfettered access to any review camera angle and replay options.  There are 2 timers above each station, one is Total time.  This starts when a challenge flag is thrown, and ends when call is announced.  The second timer starts once the Ref enters the booth.  That time supposedly cannot last more than 1  minute.  So NY begins to review play angles and communcates initial results to ref before the game ref reaches booth.  The call is made, particulars to proceed are discussed, then Ref goes out to announce.  Here is an empty NYC challenge review call center picture:

 

 

in 2013 without this center and head Ref making review/call, the total time was in the 3:59 range.  In the first half of 2016 (With Dean Blandino and his backup Riveron making the calls) the total time dropped to 3:37.  Interesting to see what 2017 brings with Blandino gone and Riveron being the chief call maker.  Make no mistake, the NY center is not under the actions of the TV broadcast to determine the play angles to review, they have full remote control and the ability to use it to full advantage.

 

Since one (or two like minded) person/people make every challenged call, consistency was supposed to be much higher these last 2 seasons.  They may tweak the review center, but it is not going away, I feel.

[dgambill]

41 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

It's true the Ref doesn't make the decision, but he has to have on the headset to hear the call. Besides, Al Riveron in NY cues up the review angle he wants Ref to see, and discuss ruling, then down, ball placement, game clock setting, etc.

 

The call review command center in NYC has 16 stations, each with four 27" ultra HD 4k screens.  A tech is stationed at each one and warns Riveron of a any potential play in his game that may be challenged.  Riveron moves in behind and if challenged puts on a headset.  On the NY screens, the upper right is what the game ref first sees in his review booth.  The lower left screen is what Riveron will cue up to the game ref to demonstrate why a call is made in a certain way.  The lower right screen allows unfettered access to any review camera angle and replay options.  There are 2 timers above each station, one is Total time.  This starts when a challenge flag is thrown, and ends when call is announced.  The second timer starts once the Ref enters the booth.  That time supposedly cannot last more than 1  minute.  So NY begins to review play angles and communcates initial results to ref before the game ref reaches booth.  The call is made, particulars to proceed are discussed, then Ref goes out to announce.  Here is an empty NYC challenge review call center picture:

 

 

in 2013 without this center and head Ref making review/call, the total time was in the 3:59 range.  In the first half of 2016 (With Dean Blandino and his backup Riveron making the calls) the total time dropped to 3:37.  Interesting to see what 2017 brings with Blandino gone and Riveron being the chief call maker.  Make no mistake, the NY center is not under the actions of the TV broadcast to determine the play angles to review, they have full remote control and the ability to use it to full advantage.

 

Since one (or two like minded) person/people make every challenged call, consistency was supposed to be much higher these last 2 seasons.  They may tweak the review center, but it is not going away, I feel.

That’s all nice and all...very high tech...and yet they still get stuff wrong and I could see that on my 3” phone screen streaming the game. Still takes too long and kills the flow of the game. Maybe they get more calls right...but doesn’t mean it’s making the game better to watch.

[-JJ-]

12 hours ago, dgambill said:

The game is just slowed down so much. The official doesn’t even need to go over to the tablet....he isn’t even making the decision! If you can’t tell in 30 seconds just leave it the same as the field and move on.

I agree with you and Bott. My, my. what did we do before replay existed. Win some lose some.

Problem is exasperated because there are so many more rules now. 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, -JJ- said:

I agree with you and Bott. My, my. what did we do before replay existed. Win some lose some.

Problem is exasperated because there are so many more rules now. 

 

 

One week your team got hosed because that crew calls a certain play one way...

 

Next week your team benefits on same type play because the next crew calls it differently than the other crew did. (or, if your on the bad end, get screwed twice by different calls on same type of play, just on wrong end of the stick each time)

 

I'm sure the VP of NFL officiating would say people watching on 5" phone screens that don't agree with his call on 4k ultra HD replays cannot see important details, nor know the rules.  But we are just fans wanting calls to go our teams way.

[buccolts]

I can't even imagine a world where I get upset 'cause the Steelers got hosed.

[2006Coltsbestever]

31 minutes ago, buccolts said:

I can't even imagine a world where I get upset 'cause the Steelers got hosed.

Watching the Steelers get hosed was a thing of beauty . The REFS gave them the 1995 AFC Title Game vs the Colts, then gave them SB 40 vs Seattle.

[-JJ-]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

One week your team got hosed because that crew calls a certain play one way...

 

Next week your team benefits on same type play because the next crew calls it differently than the other crew did. (or, if your on the bad end, get screwed twice by different calls on same type of play, just on wrong end of the stick each time)

 

I'm sure the VP of NFL officiating would say people watching on 5" phone screens that don't agree with his call on 4k ultra HD replays cannot see important details, nor know the rules.  But we are just fans wanting calls to go our teams way.

Unless they go 100% hi tech there will always be missed calls.

On the Steelers call if you go frame by frame he didn't have control.

If there wasn't replay it would have been a touchdown and that's fine by me. We should have played better where that wouldn't matter. And you're gonna lose some win some without replay.

 

Not sure if I'm agreeing with you or disagreeing  

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

One week your team got hosed because that crew calls a certain play one way...

 

Next week your team benefits on same type play because the next crew calls it differently than the other crew did. (or, if your on the bad end, get screwed twice by different calls on same type of play, just on wrong end of the stick each time)

 

I'm sure the VP of NFL officiating would say people watching on 5" phone screens that don't agree with his call on 4k ultra HD replays cannot see important details, nor know the rules.  But we are just fans wanting calls to go our teams way.

Or you still see them call it inconsistently now with 4K monitors. I watch on my 4K tv at home too just this week I was traveling...doesn’t matter. It very rarely is the case I don’t know a rule. Almost every time it’s used there is a part of the play that has subjectivity in it. Replay won’t change that. Been watching football since the the mid 80s when Colts came to Indy and when the Bears won the SB both things caught my interest as a child. I’m tired of the nitpicking let’s just move along because now they aren’t even getting them right. Just like when Bill Cower said yesterday...I can still have control of the football and it move. It’s also subjective in “making a football move”...if I catch the ball then turn and lunge for the goal line which is the opposite way I was facing is that a move?? See subjectivity and that is never going away no matter how hi def your monitor is. Yesterday KC got screwed because evidently they didn’t even have a monitor to see that corner of the end zone...are you kidding me? It’s pointless because you just spent 5 mins reviewing a call and still got it wrong. I get the feeling that the replay officials haven’t even caught a football in real life before...just a bunch of lawyers in New York. Probably got stuffed in their lockers in school. I don’t have any more faith in them then bob sitting on his couch. I honestly think they go into plays trying to overturn them instead of trying to uphold the call on the field. To me that isn’t what replay is for. It’s to try back up the refs not overturn them. That is why the wording is such for clear and irrefutable evidence to overturn....and yet week in and out they change calls and there is controversy when it’s suppose to get rid of controversy. I don’t like how it is being used...and on top it ruins the flow of the game...so if it meant going back to before without it I’m just about there. But hey what do I know....I only watched it on my phone and spent my whole life playing the sport and following it every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night....of course now we can add Monday and Thursdays too that but don’t get me started on how awful that is.

[Dingus McGirt]

Go back to two coaches' challenges and on-field video review by the referee.  No more reviews in the final two minutes (unless the coach still has a challenge). Stop reviewing every score and every turnover.  Close down the reviews being done in NY.  Keep the game ON THE FIELD where it belongs.

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, dgambill said:

Or you still see them call it inconsistently now with 4K monitors.

 

Some points on your thought pout response-

 

If Riveron makes every challenged call, and you can document that he is not consistent from game to game, let alone week to week, , that is a problem as his being the lone voice is supposed to nearly eliminate inconsistency. I expect that will be tough to document though.

 

6 hours ago, dgambill said:

 

Almost every time it’s used there is a part of the play that has subjectivity in it. Replay won’t change that. . Just like when Bill Cower said yesterday...I can still have control of the football and it move. It’s also subjective in “making a football move”...if I catch the ball then turn and lunge for the goal line which is the opposite way I was facing is that a move?? See subjectivity and that is never going away no matter how hi def your monitor is.

 

 

Football did away with that, no more football move.  and the VP of officiating has come out and stated a player going to the ground and making a dive/lunge toward the end zone/first down line is a receiver not yet in possession of the ball and is out of control.  if the ball touches the ground and 'moves' while on the ground, it is incomplete.  Period.  They replaced 'football move with 'time'.  Time with possession to make an attempt to elude an oncoming defender is the new standard to be considered a 'runner' now, not make a football move.  They are trying to define and reduce subjectivity out of it, and make the calls more consistent with one guy with no preference for team(s) calling the shots.  Fans always see it in their favor, all fans.

 

6 hours ago, dgambill said:

Yesterday KC got screwed because evidently they didn’t even have a monitor to see that corner of the end zone...are you kidding me? It’s pointless because you just spent 5 mins reviewing a call and still got it wrong.

 

I didn't see the game, nor the call.  I can tell you this, every camera at every game is recorded live in NY.  They can review any/all cameras of any play of any game at any time.  They are not at the mercy of the production team of the broadcast network for replay views.  So what they see may be totally different than what you get shown, just sayin'.  And the Ref gets to see why the call is made on his Surface Pro tablet and hear through his headset.

 

6 hours ago, dgambill said:

 

 I get the feeling that the replay officials haven’t even caught a football in real life before...just a bunch of lawyers in New York. Probably got stuffed in their lockers in school. I don’t have any more faith in them then bob sitting on his couch.

 

And you'd be totally wrong. 

 

" Riveron spent 15 years officiating games in Conference USA and the Big East. From the 2004 to the 2012 seasons, he served as an on-field official for the NFL, wearing uniform number 57. He first served as a side judge^[2] before being promoted to head referee (crew chief) in 2008 following the retirements of Gerald Austin and Larry Nemmers. Riveron was the first referee of Hispanic origin in NFL history. "

 

Riveron was promoted in 2013 to Senior Director of Officiating under VP Dean Blandino, then promoted to Senior Vice President of Officiating for 2017 when Blandino departed.

 

6 hours ago, dgambill said:

 

I honestly think they go into plays trying to overturn them instead of trying to uphold the call on the field. To me that isn’t what replay is for. It’s to try back up the refs not overturn them. That is why the wording is such for clear and irrefutable evidence to overturn....and yet week in and out they change calls and there is controversy when it’s suppose to get rid of controversy. I don’t like how it is being used...and on top it ruins the flow of the game...so if it meant going back to before without it I’m just about there. But hey what do I know....I only watched it on my phone and spent my whole life playing the sport and following it every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night....of course now we can add Monday and Thursdays too that but don’t get me started on how awful that is.

 

 

That's all personal opinion, but one many share.  It seems technology has cause unintended consequences with rules.  I have been watching since the early 1970's on 25 in color TV consoles when only UHF/VHF broadcast channels were on.  And multiple digital devices since.  I have copies of the NFL Rulebook and operation manual on my laptop every year.  That doesn't mean I am qualified to go to the NFL and demand to be an NFL review tech, let alone an onfield Ref or even the VP of Officiating so the league doesn't make those embarrassing review calls...

 

We can disagree with what we see, but they paid the dues, earned the stripes, got the job and get the paycheck.  we get to complain.

[dgambill]

36 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Some points on your thought pout response-

 

If Riveron makes every challenged call, and you can document that he is not consistent from game to game, let alone week to week, , that is a problem as his being the lone voice is supposed to nearly eliminate inconsistency. I expect that will be tough to document though.

 

 

Football did away with that, no more football move.  and the VP of officiating has come out and stated a player going to the ground and making a dive/lunge toward the end zone/first down line is a receiver not yet in possession of the ball and is out of control.  if the ball touches the ground and 'moves' while on the ground, it is incomplete.  Period.  They replaced 'football move with 'time'.  Time with possession to make an attempt to elude an oncoming defender is the new standard to be considered a 'runner' now, not make a football move.  They are trying to define and reduce subjectivity out of it, and make the calls more consistent with one guy with no preference for team(s) calling the shots.  Fans always see it in their favor, all fans.

 

 

I didn't see the game, nor the call.  I can tell you this, every camera at every game is recorded live in NY.  They can review any/all cameras of any play of any game at any time.  They are not at the mercy of the production team of the broadcast network for replay views.  So what they see may be totally different than what you get shown, just sayin'.  And the Ref gets to see why the call is made on his Surface Pro tablet and hear through his headset.

 

 

And you'd be totally wrong. 

 

" Riveron spent 15 years officiating games in Conference USA and the Big East. From the 2004 to the 2012 seasons, he served as an on-field official for the NFL, wearing uniform number 57. He first served as a side judge^[2] before being promoted to head referee (crew chief) in 2008 following the retirements of Gerald Austin and Larry Nemmers. Riveron was the first referee of Hispanic origin in NFL history. "

 

Riveron was promoted in 2013 to Senior Director of Officiating under VP Dean Blandino, then promoted to Senior Vice President of Officiating for 2017 when Blandino departed.

 

 

 

That's all personal opinion, but one many share.  It seems technology has cause unintended consequences with rules.  I have been watching since the early 1970's on 25 in color TV consoles when only UHF/VHF broadcast channels were on.  And multiple digital devices since.  I have copies of the NFL Rulebook and operation manual on my laptop every year.  That doesn't mean I am qualified to go to the NFL and demand to be an NFL review tech, let alone an onfield Ref or even the VP of Officiating so the league doesn't make those embarrassing review calls...

 

We can disagree with what we see, but they paid the dues, earned the stripes, got the job and get the paycheck.  we get to complain.

I was being sarcastic about them ever making a catch and being qualified...sorry I should have been more clear as you wouldn’t have needed to go that far. I get that they keep making changes to try to get subjectivity out of it but it’s pretty clear to me I’ve seen guys grab the ball with sometimes even one hand and have control before going to the ground or even their foot coming up on a toe drag. Just because it’s one guy doesn’t mean he gets it right every time. Maybe we don’t get the evidence on tv that they do...I’ll buy that but if they never release it well it’s hard for me to defend the system. As of now I’m fine with the human error on the field because in my opinion we get just as much as with replay. This has little to do with the Steeler/NE game as I knew they would over turn that call. Sure I thought the guy caught it...then turn and dove in the end zone but I get they changed it. But I’ve seen calls every week that the challenge takes way too long and I still think it doesn’t get it right. Just my opinion and maybe it’s wrong. Just a viewer here that the NFL is losing more and more every week with this crappy process and their social agendas and poor product on the field. I mean it doesn’t mean we don’t miss calls...they can’t go back and challenge a penalty or if a team gets up to the line quickly enough and gets a play in they can’t go back...so regardless it doesn’t make the game any more perfect and to me just slows the game down. If they are so good then they should be able to speed it up or just leave the call alone. Thank you for your informative post though...a lot of info about the system...even if I don’t like it I value the knowledge.

[Carlos Danger]

To each his own.

 

I completely identify with the frustration the OP feels about the Pats and their organization, but will point out that all professional (and semi-professional) sports have their issues. Refs in the NBA, the steroid era in MLB, all of the recruitment issues in all NCAA sports all come to mind. 

 

Any endeavor that involves large amounts of money or prestige will inevitably attract unsavory characters that will attempt to circumvent the system for their own benefit. That is an indisputable fact of human nature. It is true in all sports, all business, all politics, and all belief and economic systems. There is no system that is free of corruption because fairness is not natural, it is a social construct. 

 

That isn't to say that I think the OP is wrong for shunning the NFL, just that I think the NFL is about as corrupt as everything else, which is to say: "very."  

 

 

 

 

[Chrisaaron1023]

15 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

To each his own.

 

I completely identify with the frustration the OP feels about the Pats and their organization, but will point out that all professional (and semi-professional) sports have their issues. Refs in the NBA, the steroid era in MLB, all of the recruitment issues in all NCAA sports all come to mind. 

 

Any endeavor that involves large amounts of money or prestige will inevitably attract unsavory characters that will attempt to circumvent the system for their own benefit. That is an indisputable fact of human nature. It is true in all sports, all business, all politics, and all belief and economic systems. There is no system that is free of corruption because fairness is not natural, it is a social construct. 

 

That isn't to say that I think the OP is wrong for shunning the NFL, just that I think the NFL is about as corrupt as everything else, which is to say: "very."  

 

 

 

 

This is very true. And I think part of the frustration is the one team in particular has been going on forever it seems with this. Lets go back in time..

 

NBA- Early 2000's, we all hated the Lakers becuase they had the refs in their pockets. Shaq elbowed bigs in the face constantly, no calls. Kobe got all the calls going the other way.. today they are sitting down watching games.

 

MLB- Early 2000's, every one hated the evil yankees. They are the big ballers and just buy all the big guns to win championships after what? 3 in a row. They are just starting to come back today.

 

NCAA - Early 2000's Miami was killing it and USC would join the party. 

 

So the NFL still has the same team dominating?? Brady didn't fumble in 2001, but these guys didn't catch the ball these last few games? The Jets TE fumbled when the ball was still in his hands? lol okay. keep winning Patriots

 

Once you win a few it's no longer cute lol. Bama, Spurs, Lakers, the Patriots are there too. We are just waiting for it to end. And when it seems like it will.... something out of the ordinary happens

[GoPats]

 

I just watched replays on the Kelvin Benjamin play for the first time. When I was watching the game live I was doing 100 other things and didn't get a great look at it. 

 

I'd encourage anyone who didn't see it to google it. While it was certainly a close call, and you could argue for or against the whole "irrefutable evidence" angle, his left foot drags before he has full possession of the ball. Much like the James TD in the Steelers game, I believe that - going by the letter of the rule - this was also the right call. I was thinking about Superman's post from last week, and he's right... I think there's been more consistency than most people will be willing to admit when it comes to reviews. 

 

I realize people are extra upset about this because it's the Patriots. But keep in mind these weren't coach-challenged plays. I do find it kind of absurd that anyone would suggest that the NFL is trying to help New England. If the league had its way, the Patriots would have faded into obscurity by now in their "parity-driven" NFL. Not to mention some pretty harsh penalties with draft picks and a 4-game suspension for an equipment violation. 

 

 

[Dingus McGirt]

The entire review/replay debacle reminds me of government officials.  NOTHING is ever enough. In order to justify jobs and create a façade of relevance - standing rules and procedures must be constantly re-evaluated, updated, re-promulgated. 

[Cynjin]

28 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

I just watched replays on the Kelvin Benjamin play for the first time. When I was watching the game live I was doing 100 other things and didn't get a great look at it. 

 

I'd encourage anyone who didn't see it to google it. While it was certainly a close call, and you could argue for or against the whole "irrefutable evidence" angle, his left foot drags before he has full possession of the ball. Much like the James TD in the Steelers game, I believe that - going by the letter of the rule - this was also the right call. I was thinking about Superman's post from last week, and he's right... I think there's been more consistency than most people will be willing to admit when it comes to reviews. 

 

I realize people are extra upset about this because it's the Patriots. But keep in mind these weren't coach-challenged plays. I do find it kind of absurd that anyone would suggest that the NFL is trying to help New England. If the league had its way, the Patriots would have faded into obscurity by now in their "parity-driven" NFL. Not to mention some pretty harsh penalties with draft picks and a 4-game suspension for an equipment violation. 

 

 

 

Personally, I do not care if it was a game against the Pats and I also do not believe that the league is trying to help the Pats.  That being said, the overrule by Riveron was crap, there was not clear evidence to overrule the call on the field.

 

Regarding the call during the Pittsburgh game, it was a correct ruling on a terrible rule.  It would be nice if they clearly stated at what point a receiver became a runner.  It seems to me that it used to be after two steps.  Just make it official, if a receiver takes two steps with the ball then he is a runner and then breaking the plane of the end zone is a touchdown.  Then it won’t matter if he has possession after going to the ground.

[GoPats]

16 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

Personally, I do not care if it was a game against the Pats and I also do not believe that the league is trying to help the Pats.  That being said, the overrule by Riveron was crap, there was not clear evidence to overrule the call on the field.

 

Regarding the call during the Pittsburgh game, it was a correct ruling on a terrible rule.  It would be nice if they clearly stated at what point a receiver became a runner.  It seems to me that it used to be after two steps.  Just make it official, if a receiver takes two steps with the ball then he is a runner and then breaking the plane of the end zone is a touchdown.  Then it won’t matter if he has possession after going to the ground.

 

If you pause the replay when he stops juggling the catch and has possession, you'll see that Benjamin's left foot is no longer on the ground. If he had caught it cleanly, he would have had time to get both feet down. I'm sure that's a very unpopular opinion () but I'm looking at it as objectively as I can, and when I saw it in real time I was mostly paying attention to his feet, and because of the toe drag it initially looked like a TD to me. I think the early toe drag actually hurt him. It made it more obvious (again, IMO) that it was hovering over the turf until it touched down out of bounds, and may have been the reason he didn't catch it cleanly. 

 

Either way I still maintain that the NFL would like nothing more than for the Patriots to go away. 

 

They're not good for business, and they're messing up the idea of parity in the league. 

 

 

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, GoPats said:

 

If you pause the replay when he stops juggling the catch and has possession, you'll see that Benjamin's left foot is no longer on the ground. If he had caught it cleanly, he would have had time to get both feet down. I'm sure that's a very unpopular opinion () but I'm looking at it as objectively as I can, and when I saw it in real time I was mostly paying attention to his feet, and because of the toe drag it initially looked like a TD to me. I think the early toe drag actually hurt him. It made it more obvious (again, IMO) that it was hovering over the turf until it touched down out of bounds, and may have been the reason he didn't catch it cleanly. 

 

Either way I still maintain that the NFL would like nothing more than for the Patriots to go away. 

 

They're not good for business, and they're messing up the idea of parity in the league. 

 

 

 

If they want the Pats to go away they need to suspend the head coach, not the Qb.

 

I disagree about the toe drag.  IMO, there was no way to conclusively determine that the call on the field was wrong.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

I just watched replays on the Kelvin Benjamin play for the first time. When I was watching the game live I was doing 100 other things and didn't get a great look at it. 

 

I'd encourage anyone who didn't see it to google it. While it was certainly a close call, and you could argue for or against the whole "irrefutable evidence" angle, his left foot drags before he has full possession of the ball. Much like the James TD in the Steelers game, I believe that - going by the letter of the rule - this was also the right call. I was thinking about Superman's post from last week, and he's right... I think there's been more consistency than most people will be willing to admit when it comes to reviews. 

 

I realize people are extra upset about this because it's the Patriots. But keep in mind these weren't coach-challenged plays. I do find it kind of absurd that anyone would suggest that the NFL is trying to help New England. If the league had its way, the Patriots would have faded into obscurity by now in their "parity-driven" NFL. Not to mention some pretty harsh penalties with draft picks and a 4-game suspension for an equipment violation. 

 

 

Not quite just an equipment violation. That is what is so aggravating about that issue. The average Pats fan minimizes the issue. Till we hear answers from McNally and Jastremski under oath there will always be doubt as to what really happened.

I know it's all old news and water under the bridge but as a none Pats fan there will always be the opinion of guilt just because we never heard from the two equipment men and add the fact Brady destroyed the cell phone without taking the chance to clear all this up.

Just the reality of all of it even after all this time.

[NFLfan]

4 hours ago, GoPats said:

I do find it kind of absurd that anyone would suggest that the NFL is trying to help New England. If the league had its way, the Patriots would have faded into obscurity by now in their "parity-driven" NFL.

 

If that were the case, the refs would have allowed the call to stand. Most viewers including two former NFL VPs of Officiating Mike Pereira and Dean Blandino thought the call should not have been reversed. 

[GoPats]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Not quite just an equipment violation. That is what is so aggravating about that issue. The average Pats fan minimizes the issue. Till we hear answers from McNally and Jastremski under oath there will always be doubt as to what really happened.

I know it's all old news and water under the bridge but as a none Pats fan there will always be the opinion of guilt just because we never heard from the two equipment men and add the fact Brady destroyed the cell phone without taking the chance to clear all this up.

Just the reality of all of it even after all this time.

 

"Deflategate" is the biggest ball of nothing that's ever come out of the NFL. Millions of dollars for an investigation over an issue that clearly had no impact on football games. 

 

 

[GoPats]

38 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

If that were the case, the refs would have allowed the call to stand. Most viewers including two former NFL VPs of Officiating Mike Pereira and Dean Blandino thought the call should not have been reversed. 

 

Use your head here. Come on, you're too smart of a guy to fall into this line of flawed thinking. 

 

Do you really think the NFL is trying to help the Patriots? Why? 

 

[dgambill]

I don’t think the NFL is trying to help the Pats. I don’t think anyone truely thinks that either...but the NFL has no problem with the drama...gets people tweeting and commenting and that’s a good thing. I think people in general are just sick of the Pats lol. From the moment instant replay was instituted it just so happens...legitimately or not for some the calls have been going one way lol. To me it has nothing to do with the Pats calls...I’m just sick in general with it.

[GoPats]

19 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I don’t think the NFL is trying to help the Pats. I don’t think anyone truely thinks that either...

 

I think this is true in some cases... in others, though, I think it's more about the fact that it's the Patriots, regardless of what the alleged offense is.

Good example? The other night the Raiders long snapper was holding K-balls near a heater. No one seemed to care. 

 

 

http://offthemonstersports.com/2017/12/espn-cameras-catch-raiders-illegally-heating-up-footballs-on-sidelines-but-no-one-seems-to-care/

[crazycolt1]

43 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

"Deflategate" is the biggest ball of nothing that's ever come out of the NFL. Millions of dollars for an investigation over an issue that clearly had no impact on football games. 

 

 

Exactly like I said. Pats fans minimize anything to do with their team.

There is a reason the Pats have been the highest fined team in the league regardless of the reasons. 

The impact it had on football games has nothing to do with the cloud that hangs on the issues.

Like I said. It's all water under the bridge and nothing more will come of it but there are still issues that were never answered. They never will be as long as McNally and Jastremski keep their mouth shut.

My only question is why McNally and Jastremski have never took the time to clear all this up? Till they do there will always be doubt about the truth.

Anyway, lets move on and move forward with things that matter in the present.

 

[dgambill]

17 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

I think this is true in some cases... in others, though, I think it's more about the fact that it's the Patriots, regardless of what the alleged offense is.

Good example? The other night the Raiders long snapper was holding K-balls near a heater. No one seemed to care. 

 

 

http://offthemonstersports.com/2017/12/espn-cameras-catch-raiders-illegally-heating-up-footballs-on-sidelines-but-no-one-seems-to-care/

That should be a fine for sure...and put the team on some kind of point system that enough points and the team starts losing picks or people get suspended. I have a problem with it. I also think the Pats thing should have been like a major fine but I think it was the obstruction, lying, and then the history that forced the NFL to take such aggressive action. It was over kill for sure on something I think probably had minimal affect on the field.

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

Use your head here. Come on, you're too smart of a guy to fall into this line of flawed thinking. 

 

Do you really think the NFL is trying to help the Patriots? Why? 

 

 

You ask "Why"? See my previous post. There was no "indisputable video evidence" to overturn that call. Yet, the call did not stand. If the NFL was out to get the Pats, there is no way they overturn that call.

[GoPats]

4 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

You ask "Why"? See my previous post. There was no "indisputable video evidence" to overturn that call. Yet, the call did not stand. If the NFL was out to get the Pats, there is no way they overturn that call.

 

I was actually asking why the league would be going out of its way to help the Patriots. 

[GoPats]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Exactly like I said. Pats fans minimize anything to do with their team.

There is a reason the Pats have been the highest fined team in the league regardless of the reasons. 

The impact it had on football games has nothing to do with the cloud that hangs on the issues.

Like I said. It's all water under the bridge and nothing more will come of it but there are still issues that were never answered. They never will be as long as McNally and Jastremski keep their mouth shut.

My only question is why McNally and Jastremski have never took the time to clear all this up? Till they do there will always be doubt about the truth.

Anyway, lets move on and move forward with things that matter in the present.

 

 

I’m just going by results, that’s all. They’re 38-9 (including this season) since DFG. Won two Super Bowls. Same team, same results for the most part. Except Brady has generally been better than he was in his mid 30s. 

 

But anyway, yeah I do get it, lol... and yes, there are lots of unknowns. But I don’t think it’s possible that every player or personnel member who’s left the team over the past 16 years would keep their silence up if there was more to most of these things that what we know. That assumes a massive amount of planning and control involving hundreds of people. Seems unlikely and if it’s true, Belichick should be president because the government would never pull that off. Heh.

 

Thanks for a DFG convo that didn’t implode! 

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

I’m just going by results, that’s all. They’re 38-9 (including this season) since DFG. Won two Super Bowls. Same team, same results for the most part. Except Brady has generally been better than he was in his mid 30s. 

 

But anyway, yeah I do get it, lol... and yes, there are lots of unknowns. But I don’t think it’s possible that every player or personnel member who’s left the team over the past 16 years would keep their silence up if there was more to most of these things that what we know. That assumes a massive amount of planning and control involving hundreds of people. Seems unlikely and if it’s true, Belichick should be president because the government would never pull that off. Heh.

 

Thanks for a DFG convo that didn’t implode! 

Kraft can afford it?    Just joking lol

[NFLfan]

10 minutes ago, GoPats said:

I was actually asking why the league would be going out of its way to help the Patriots. 

 

There is much that we are not privy to. So, I don't know how to answer that. What I know is that the Pats get calls that other teams don't seem to get.

 

Btw, how do you explain Gronk having  received only a one game suspension for that terrible hit on that rookie CB. Anyone else would have been suspended at least two games.

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

There is much that we are not privy to. So, I don't know how to answer that. What I know is that the Pats get calls that other teams don't seem to get.

 

Btw, how do you explain Gronk having  received only a one game suspension for that terrible hit on that rookie CB. Anyone else would have been suspended at least two games.

I have to admit that is a good question. It wasn't his first issue either. His issue with Sergio Brown and trying to hurt him was one of the issues that come to mind.

[GoPats]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

There is much that we are not privy to. So, I don't know how to answer that. What I know is that the Pats get calls that other teams don't seem to get.

 

Btw, how do you explain Gronk having  received only a one game suspension for that terrible hit on that rookie CB. Anyone else would have been suspended at least two games.

 

Well like you said... that I’m not privy to. Outside of the Sergio Brown thing he hadn’t been fined or disciplined far as I can remember. So maybe it was that. Didn’t AJ Green get one game for going after that Redskins CB? I figured it would be two games initially and reduced to one and a fine after appeal. I don’t disagree with you at all, it was a total cheap shot and he deserved more than he got. Some things go beyond the uniform. 

 

5 hours ago, dgambill said:

That should be a fine for sure...and put the team on some kind of point system that enough points and the team starts losing picks or people get suspended. I have a problem with it. I also think the Pats thing should have been like a major fine but I think it was the obstruction, lying, and then the history that forced the NFL to take such aggressive action. It was over kill for sure on something I think probably had minimal affect on the field.

 

Sometimes I look at the players drafted

at or around (and after) the picks that the league took away from the Pats and it’s crazy... how would Calais Campbell have done in NE? Jordy Nelson? Matt Forte? That was ‘08. Remains to be seen who they missed out on in 2016 but losing a first round pick, one of your most valuable assets, is a significant disadvantage. 

 

And I honestly do agree - the stuff that happened afterwards ended up making the whole thing worse in the court of public opinion. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, GoPats said:

 

Well like you said... that I’m not privy to. Outside of the Sergio Brown thing he hadn’t been fined or disciplined far as I can remember. So maybe it was that. Didn’t AJ Green get one game for going after that Redskins CB? I figured it would be two games initially and reduced to one and a fine after appeal. I don’t disagree with you at all, it was a total cheap shot and he deserved more than he got. Some things go beyond the uniform. 

 

 

Sometimes I look at the players drafted

at or around (and after) the picks that the league took away from the Pats and it’s crazy... how would Calais Campbell have done in NE? Jordy Nelson? Matt Forte? That was ‘08. Remains to be seen who they missed out on in 2016 but losing a first round pick, one of your most valuable assets, is a significant disadvantage. 

 

And I honestly do agree - the stuff that happened afterwards ended up making the whole thing worse in the court of public opinion. 

I think one of the things a lot of non Pats fans gets tired of is the over the top media coverage of the Pats. Especially ESPN. Thus causing more than usual distain for the Pats over other teams. Personally I remember when the Colts and the Patriots both were considered a couple of the bottom teams in the NFL so any media attention was good. Way too many fans forget the NFL is designed for teams to go up and down and it's only a matter of time for it to happen to all teams. When that does happen it's like they lose their minds.

[ColtsBlueFL]

14 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

I just watched replays on the Kelvin Benjamin play for the first time. When I was watching the game live I was doing 100 other things and didn't get a great look at it. 

 

I'd encourage anyone who didn't see it to google it. While it was certainly a close call, and you could argue for or against the whole "irrefutable evidence" angle, his left foot drags before he has full possession of the ball. Much like the James TD in the Steelers game, I believe that - going by the letter of the rule - this was also the right call. I was thinking about Superman's post from last week, and he's right... I think there's been more consistency than most people will be willing to admit when it comes to reviews. 

 

I realize people are extra upset about this because it's the Patriots. But keep in mind these weren't coach-challenged plays. I do find it kind of absurd that anyone would suggest that the NFL is trying to help New England. If the league had its way, the Patriots would have faded into obscurity by now in their "parity-driven" NFL. Not to mention some pretty harsh penalties with draft picks and a 4-game suspension for an equipment violation. 

 

 

 

More consistency... yes, maybe... I think so.  The issue?  New age Technology has made replay review an overly technical procedure.  And calls are getting overly technical in being made. Multiple replay angles over a  minute to see if any of them in Ultra Slow 4k HD cameras shows the slightest imperfection on the  play rendering the live call immaterial and overturned.  I've talked with many fans... this utterly perturbs them to no end.