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Ballards Potentially toughest off season decision


Crunked

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You hang on to Jacoby until you know the status of Luck. Good  to great qb's are hard to come by and Jacoby has given a very good display of his talent behind a crappy o line , no help from receivers with greasy fingers, in his young still learning career. No way do you get rid of him now of the near future.

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22 hours ago, stitches said:

OK, lets put it this way - if the Browns were ready to give up a second and a third for AJ McCarron, what do you think Brissett is worth? 

 

I would give a 2nd and 3rd for McCarron in any day, while I wouldn't even consider giving anything meaningful for Brissett at the moment. I don't care about records, I don't care about stats. What I only care about is my own eyes, my own opinion. I don't see the starting talent in Brissett, while I DO SEE starting talent in McCarron. Even more than in Garoppolo.

 

I'm not a GM, so I may very well be wrong about it. And I know that teams/GM's sometimes do crazy stuff. I've never ever imagined for example that someone would give a 70+ mill, 35 mill guaranteed contract to Osweiler. But O'Brien did. So, who knows? Maybe someone sees something in Brissett that most people don't, Or just desperate enough. If that happens, I hope Ballard will say yes before he blinks an eye. :)

 

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8 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

I would give a 2nd and 3rd for McCarron in any day, while I wouldn't even consider giving anything meaningful for Brissett at the moment. I don't care about records, I don't care about stats. What I only care about is my own eyes, my own opinion. I don't see the starting talent in Brissett, while I DO SEE starting talent in McCarron. Even more than in Garoppolo.

 

I'm not a GM, so I may very well be wrong about it. And I know that teams/GM's sometimes do crazy stuff. I've never ever imagined for example that someone would give a 70+ mill, 35 mill guaranteed contract to Osweiler. But O'Brien did. So, who knows? Maybe someone sees something in Brissett that most people don't, Or just desperate enough. If that happens, I hope Ballard will say yes before he blinks an eye. :)

 

I disagree with your opinion of Brissett.  He has shown he has what it takes to be a starter in the NFL. He came in starting not prepared when he started for the Colts. No training camp, new system and a poor O-line. Yes he has made some mistakes but make me a list of QBs who hasn't made those same mistakes a new QB makes. We seen this week the game starting to slow down for him. He was pounded into submission this week by the Steelers.

After the lack of quality QB and especially back up QBs Brisett needs to stay exactly where he is at.

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This coming FA class is the wrong class to be aggressive.    Why?   Because so far,  there doesn't appear to be much to buy.

 

The 2018 class looks very poor....

 

Maybe that changes early next year with who gets cut,  but I don't see that changing the class from bad to good.   Maybe from bad to poor or maybe OK.   But that would be about it.

 

I agree but disagree.  The entire FA class is not spectacular, but there are a few key guys that if they hit the market would be a factor for us.  Trumaine Johnson, a Guard who can play, Redskins ILB..all three have a chance to hit FA.  We can address key areas for us and hope that we find a few guys like last year to fit our system....whatever that might be.  I do not see us spending every dime though.  Spend some on key spots and have some roll over into 2019 to stay aggressive there as well.

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7 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

JB is a starter in this league... They run him out there every week behind a junk OL and he still makes plays down the field. 

 

He has his warts: holds the ball too long, lacks touch on short throws, ect... but he's better than at least 10 QBs currently starting. A bunch of QBs have his same issues and have more experience. I'd easily take JB over Dalton, for instance... No brainer. He's a better QB... I'd rather have him starting for my team than Flacco. He's better than the current iteration of Eli, and that doesn't even take the Beathards, Trubiskys, and Simeans of the NFL into consideration... (probably spelled some of their names wrong). 

 

I'm not sure what his ultimate trade value is, but there are teams that want him to start for them, imo. He's a starter... an average one now, but his ceiling is high...

 

It isn't easy to evaluate a QB who has to play behind our line, with our offensive coaching, and had to learn it all on the fly, with no chemistry with his teammates or familiarity with the playbook. 

 

It is really hard for me to understand how anybody could think that JB isn't good enough to start for the Browns, Cardinals, Broncos, ect, but that just my opinion... He's a better bet than you can get from the draft... a character guy with talent and physical intangibles who has proven that he has the arm strength and accuracy to thread the needle on the deep ball... 

I like him too.  I just wish he would execute his reads a little bit better and stop getting smoked on these blitzes.  I think we are making the necessary adjustments in many cases and he doesn't get the ball out his hands in time enough. 

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39 minutes ago, krunk said:

I like him too.  I just wish he would execute his reads a little bit better and stop getting smoked on these blitzes.  I think we are making the necessary adjustments in many cases and he doesn't get the ball out his hands in time enough. 

Understandable but we have to keep in mind he is still basically a rookie. Most rookie QBs get much better in their 2nd year after seeing what the defenses do for a year and then adjusting themselves as the game slows down for them. Even if he has picked up on making reads he has been rushed and hit before he can make those adjustments.

We were so used to Manning having such a quick release we kind of expect the next QB in line to be able to do that but only a handful of QBs have that ability. With Luck and Brisett we don't have that.

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7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Understandable but we have to keep in mind he is still basically a rookie. Most rookie QBs get much better in their 2nd year after seeing what the defenses do for a year and then adjusting themselves as the game slows down for them. Even if he has picked up on making reads he has been rushed and hit before he can make those adjustments.

We were so used to Manning having such a quick release we kind of expect the next QB in line to be able to do that but only a handful of QBs have that ability. With Luck and Brisett we don't have that.

Neither have a quick release but neither get to see a quick hitting offense like Manning had either.  Arians, Pep, and Chud all like these long developing downfield systems (Air Coyle).  That is not what we need since we have never had a sustainable line.  If we actually address the line and it gets better this system could work better.  Get a West Coast system in and allow for quick routes and plays and watch that release time get better.  

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12 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Neither have a quick release but neither get to see a quick hitting offense like Manning had either.  Arians, Pep, and Chud all like these long developing downfield systems (Air Coyle).  That is not what we need since we have never had a sustainable line.  If we actually address the line and it gets better this system could work better.  Get a West Coast system in and allow for quick routes and plays and watch that release time get better.  

You said it in a nutshell. Getting a decent O-line. Even as good as Brady, Rogers or pretty much any QB is concerned they all depend on a good offensive line. Hopefully between the draft and a few choice free agents we can address that issue. The scary part is through the draft it takes time for those players to get accustom to the NFL and waiting them out can be stressful.

As far as good or great free agent O-linemen they are few and far between. When teams have one they vary rarely let them go.

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22 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You said it in a nutshell. Getting a decent O-line. Even as good as Brady, Rogers or pretty much any QB is concerned they all depend on a good offensive line. Hopefully between the draft and a few choice free agents we can address that issue. The scary part is through the draft it takes time for those players to get accustom to the NFL and waiting them out can be stressful.

As far as good or great free agent O-linemen they are few and far between. When teams have one they vary rarely let them go.

Completely agree.  Our o-line has to be a factor this off-season.  Improve that and watch the huge impact show through our offensive numbers.

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4 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Completely agree.  Our o-line has to be a factor this off-season.  Improve that and watch the huge impact show through our offensive numbers.

IMO getting talented players who work in the trenches needs to be the #1 priority. The old saying games are won and lost in the trenches has always been true and it's not going to change.

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I'm sure any decision wrt JB will be heavily influenced by the assessment of AL's health before the 2018 draft.

 

If Luck is good to go, I think JB would command a 2nd or high 3rd round pick. 

 

If Luck would go down again, wins would be a struggle for JB or any other backup.  We are weak at so many other positions that the extra picks are very valuable to us.

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Just now, crazycolt1 said:

IMO getting talented players who work in the trenches needs to be the #1 priority. The old saying games are won and lost in the trenches has always been true and it's not going to change.

Yes!  I would be fine with an early pick being an o-line guy.  If we did not get anyone in FA then the first 2 picks can be o-line.  You cannot keep putting this off by grabbing projects.  Ballard is guilty of this too with Banner.  That guy had slow feet and was a project all around that he committed no time too.  We need this to be #1.

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Ballard has a near impossible task between now and next Spring. Remember Peyton's first year was a joke. How do you rate Brissett when his OL is a net full of holes? He is getting hammered. Luck's arm was not supposed to be in need of whatever they are doing to it in Europe. If Ballard goes the route of a new head coach will some of the players view it as a negative? Jeff Saturday said when Dungy got the job he was worried he may not play or make the team at all. The main theme of Ballard's challenge is he is dealing with the unknown, meaning Luck's shoulder. What if Luck gets the green light nd he is still unable to perform as before? What then? How big of a personnel change will he try for? It would nice to see exactly what he did for KC to earn his reputation and what part of his work was a success and what part a failure. Many bridges to cross and he will need some magic to pull it off.

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1 minute ago, GoBlue12 said:

I'm sure any decision wrt JB will be heavily influenced by the assessment of AL's health before the 2018 draft.

 

If Luck is good to go, I think JB would command a 2nd or high 3rd round pick. 

 

If Luck would go down again, wins would be a struggle for JB or any other backup.  We are weak at so many other positions that the extra picks are very valuable to us.

All the picks in the draft can't replace what having a good back up QB can bring.

IMO trading JB even if Luck comes back healthy would be a mistake. We have already witnessed what having a poor back up can do.

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I think his toughest decision is who will coach next year.  Is it Pagano or someone new?  If someone new, then who?  This is a huge decision sitting over him, not what to do with JB.  Luck plays next year, JB is a quality backup.  Luck does not play you have someone you can trust already.  You draft someone then you still have someone you trust in case the pick does not pan out right away.  And again you still have a quality backup if a pick looks good early.  We have a win-win situation with JB on a low rookie contract.  A team better come with some incredible trade or else it has little weight IMO.  I foresee no team offering anything worth while.  Just my opinion obviously!

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1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

I think his toughest decision is who will coach next year.  Is it Pagano or someone new?  If someone new, then who?  This is a huge decision sitting over him, not what to do with JB.  Luck plays next year, JB is a quality backup.  Luck does not play you have someone you can trust already.  You draft someone then you still have someone you trust in case the pick does not pan out right away.  And again you still have a quality backup if a pick looks good early.  We have a win-win situation with JB on a low rookie contract.  A team better come with some incredible trade or else it has little weight IMO.  I foresee no team offering anything worth while.  Just my opinion obviously!

Exactly. If we take Ballard at his word then JB was traded for with the future in mind.

I agree, JB is the least of Ballard's problems come the end of this season.

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He has a lot of decisions to make, for sure.  There's a lot of current player evaluation to be done to see who sticks around for us in 2018.  Tons of scouting reports to be reviewed.  Likely to be making coaching changes, too.

 

If we had a Top 10 Offensive Line, just imagine how many more wins we would have?  Keeping our offense on the field longer, meaning less on the field time for our defense.  With great protection, just about any QB at the NFL level can succeed.  Not to mention an improved running attack behind a good OL.  Translates into ball control and opening up a lot of options in regards to play calling.

 

I'm no genius, but I imagine the OL will be Ballard's top priority.  If Luck returns in 2018, then protecting him become paramount.  If he doesn't, then protecting JB will be paramount to allow him to continue to develop.

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On 11/12/2017 at 10:29 AM, stitches said:

OK, lets put it this way - if the Browns were ready to give up a second and a third for AJ McCarron, what do you think Brissett is worth? 

Let's put it this way - If Jimmy Garropolo is worth a second round pick, how could Jacoby Brissett be worth more than a third or fourth round pick?

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2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I disagree with your opinion of Brissett.  He has shown he has what it takes to be a starter in the NFL. He came in starting not prepared when he started for the Colts. No training camp, new system and a poor O-line. Yes he has made some mistakes but make me a list of QBs who hasn't made those same mistakes a new QB makes. We seen this week the game starting to slow down for him. He was pounded into submission this week by the Steelers.

After the lack of quality QB and especially back up QBs Brisett needs to stay exactly where he is at.

 

Feel free to disagree me, it's just my opinion. I don't care about mistakes, I know those use to happen inevitably. Luck made his fair share of mistakes too. When I judge a QB, I always judge by my eyes. Sometimes I see flaws which I think are correctable. By learning, or they come by experience, etc. But sometimes I see flaws which I believe aren't correctable. Or not correctable enough for an NFL starter level. (Or can't be compensated with something else.) For example a throwing motion is correctable on paper, but certain players just can't correct it. Tebow for example. Or Bortles. Siemian on the other hand has a beautiful throwing motion, good foot technic, he can read defenses, andhas the necessary arm strenght. But he has a problem with his decision making, every now and then he blocks and does something very stupid. He is like Hoyer. If you watch Hoyer, you can't see anything wrong, he looks like a solid NFL QB. Until his brain blocks and starts to make silly mistakes, and you can't explain why he commits them.

 

Regarding Brissett, the red flag for me is his slow mental processing. I mean veeeery slow. He is slow even when he knows what he's going to do, and all he needs to do is to execute. He's a bit late with even the most simple, quick passes. The Colts call a number of RPO plays for him. He is a good half - sometimes a full - second slower in his decision making than it would be necessary.

 

This has nothing to do with inexperience. If someone is quick in his mind, then, at least, he is quick when he knows what he's going to do. Brissett is not. I don't think this is correctable. Maybe a bit, but it will always be a problem for him, and I doubt he has enough other tools to compensate that. I wish I was wrong though, but I fear I'm not.

 

Btw, Russell Wilson has similar problem. He is a bit slow too when it comes to throwing (making the decision). That's why imo the Hawks constantly fails to implement some quick passing game, despite they've been trying it for years. But Wilson has plenty of other tools to compensate that. He has so many - his quickness, his extremely good pocket awareness, his touch, and one of the best and most accurate deep balls in the league, etc. - which not just compensates that, but makes him one of the better QB-s in the league. We can go through the NFL QB's one by one, and many - if not most - of them have flaws. Some of them has bad throwing motion, some of them are not that good in the pocket, some of them can't play from under center, etc. But all have something which they are very-very good at to compensate their flaws. I don't see such thing in Brissett. He's OK in many aspects of his game, but I don't see anything way above average. 

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3 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Feel free to disagree me, it's just my opinion. I don't care about mistakes, I know those use to happen inevitably. Luck made his fair share of mistakes too. When I judge a QB, I always judge by my eyes. Sometimes I see flaws which I think are correctable. By learning, or they come by experience, etc. But sometimes I see flaws which I believe aren't correctable. Or not correctable enough for an NFL starter level. (Or can't be compensated with something else.) For example a throwing motion is correctable on paper, but certain players just can't correct it. Tebow for example. Or Bortles. Siemian on the other hand has a beautiful throwing motion, good foot technic, he can read defenses, andhas the necessary arm strenght. But he has a problem with his decision making, every now and then he blocks and does something very stupid. He is like Hoyer. If you watch Hoyer, you can't see anything wrong, he looks like a solid NFL QB. Until his brain blocks and starts to make silly mistakes, and you can't explain why he commits them.

 

Regarding Brissett, the red flag for me is his slow mental processing. I mean veeeery slow. He is slow even when he knows what he's going to do, and all he needs to do is to execute. He's a bit late with even the most simple, quick passes. The Colts call a number of RPO plays for him. He is a good half - sometimes a full - second slower in his decision making than it would be necessary.

 

This has nothing to do with inexperience. If someone is quick in his mind, then, at least, he is quick when he knows what he's going to do. Brissett is not. I don't think this is correctable. Maybe a bit, but it will always be a problem for him, and I doubt he has enough other tools to compensate that. I wish I was wrong though, but I fear I'm not.

 

Btw, Russell Wilson has similar problem. He is a bit slow too when it comes to throwing (making the decision). That's why imo the Hawks constantly fails to implement some quick passing game, despite they've been trying it for years. But Wilson has plenty of other tools to compensate that. He has so many - his quickness, his extremely good pocket awareness, his touch, and one of the best and most accurate deep balls in the league, etc. - which not just compensates that, but makes him one of the better QB-s in the league. We can go through the NFL QB's one by one, and many - if not most - of them have flaws. Some of them has bad throwing motion, some of them are not that good in the pocket, some of them can't play from under center, etc. But all have something which they are very-very good at to compensate their flaws. I don't see such thing in Brissett. He's OK in many aspects of his game, but I don't see anything way above average. 

You wrote a very long chapter bringing up something that is simple. The game will come to JB when the games slows down for him. He is no different than any QB in the league in needing the offensive line to block for him. You may think you have him all figured out but that opinion is not what we are hearing from some pretty wise coaches and a HOF ex coach throughout the league.

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42 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Ballard has a near impossible task between now and next Spring. Remember Peyton's first year was a joke. 

 

Wow, that's bold. A joke, reall?

 

I was a Marino fan back in 1998 (yep, I wasn't always a Colts fan :) i'm a european guy, brought to footbally by Joe Montana and for many years, I had only favourite players, but no favourite teams). Anyway, the very first time I saw Manning it was in 1998 against Marino's Dolphins. Peyton had a bad game, multiple int's, etc. But still, in that game, I was immediatelly sure that I saw something special. Not just good, but something exceptional. From that day, I have never missed a Manning game in my life, ever. I've seen all. And I became a Colts fan by the end of 1998.

 

All this because of that "joke" Manning. :)

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2 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Wow, that's bold. A joke, reall?

 

I was a Marino fan back in 1998 (yep, I wasn't always a Colts fan :) i'm a european guy, brought to footbally by Joe Montana and for many years, I had only favourite players, but no favourite teams). Anyway, the very first time I saw Manning it was in 1998 against Marino's Dolphins. Peyton had a bad game, multiple int's, etc. But still, in that game, I was immediatelly sure that I saw something special. Not just good, but something exceptional. From that day, I have never missed a Manning game in my life, ever. I've seen all. And I became a Colts fan by the end of 1998.

 

All this because of that "joke" Manning. :)

I think you missed his point.

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6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You wrote a very long chapter bringing up something that is simple. The game will come to JB when the games slows down for him. He is no different than any QB in the league in needing the offensive line to block for him. You may think you have him all figured out but that opinion is not what we are hearing from some pretty wise coaches and a HOF ex coach throughout the league.

 

So? Those same experts said 8 weeks ago that Trevor Siemian could be a future franchise quarterback for the Broncos. And the same expert said that Deshaun Watson is not ready for the NFL yet. 

 

Sorry, but I stick to my eyes and my own opinion.

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2 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

So? Those same experts said 8 weeks ago that Trevor Siemian could be a future franchise quarterback for the Broncos. And the same expert said that Deshaun Watson is not ready for the NFL yet. 

 

Sorry, but I stick to my eyes and my own opinion.

So you consider yourself as an expert?  Ok, if you say so.

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you consider yourself as an expert?  Ok, if you say so.

 

If someone sticks to his opinion, and writes down his reasoning in detail, that means he considers himself an expert in your book?

 

What about you then? Altough you did not explain yourself in detail, I guess you stick to your opinion, dont you? Do you consider yourself an expert?

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Ok...first let me say that I am, by nature, a pessimist/realist.  I am not that sure that Luck will ever be back to play.  Really reminds me of the Bert Jones years there at the end.  We kept waiting and waiting, then he was traded and never played well again.  I think we definitely need to cut Tolzien (classic example of keeping poor talent), keep Brissett, and look for the future out of the draft (Baker Mayfield, Rosen, Allen, or if no o-line...Lamar Jackson, because he can scramble).....

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3 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

If someone sticks to his opinion, and writes down his reasoning in detail, that means he considers himself an expert in your book?

 

What about you then? Altough you did not explain yourself in detail, I guess you stick to your opinion, dont you? Do you consider yourself an expert?

No, I am no expert. But I don't claim to be either.

There are no such things as experts. Because they have been dead wrong before. Just because you have an opinion does not make you an expert.

I said what I thought but don't feel the need to go into detail. My opinion was simple and to the point.

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4 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Wow, that's bold. A joke, reall?

 

I was a Marino fan back in 1998 (yep, I wasn't always a Colts fan :) i'm a european guy, brought to footbally by Joe Montana and for many years, I had only favourite players, but no favourite teams). Anyway, the very first time I saw Manning it was in 1998 against Marino's Dolphins. Peyton had a bad game, multiple int's, etc. But still, in that game, I was immediatelly sure that I saw something special. Not just good, but something exceptional. From that day, I have never missed a Manning game in my life, ever. I've seen all. And I became a Colts fan by the end of 1998.

 

All this because of that "joke" Manning. :)

View his career numbers versus his first year numbers. I am saying he was not judged to be a loser by his numbers that might suggest he may not be the QB he turned out to be. Today's QBs are given the ball in game one of  year one and judged as if they are supposed to be probowlers from day one.

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5 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Wow, that's bold. A joke, reall?

 

I was a Marino fan back in 1998 (yep, I wasn't always a Colts fan :) i'm a european guy, brought to footbally by Joe Montana and for many years, I had only favourite players, but no favourite teams). Anyway, the very first time I saw Manning it was in 1998 against Marino's Dolphins. Peyton had a bad game, multiple int's, etc. But still, in that game, I was immediatelly sure that I saw something special. Not just good, but something exceptional. From that day, I have never missed a Manning game in my life, ever. I've seen all. And I became a Colts fan by the end of 1998.

 

All this because of that "joke" Manning. :)

 

 And Manning played with "happy feet" his first 5 years.
 That is when he came back ready to make quicker decisions, quick throws. He had 100 Int his first 5 years.
And a "JOKE" Playoff game against the Steelers to end season 5.
 LOL So labeling Brissett NOW. THAT may also be a ..................JOKE. :thmup:

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9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

No, I am no expert. But I don't claim to be either.

There are no such things as experts. Because they have been dead wrong before. Just because you have an opinion does not make you an expert.

I said what I thought but don't feel the need to go into detail. My opinion was simple and to the point.

 

So you don't claim to be an expert and I don't claim to be an expert. Fine. Can we close this subject? 

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3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Manning has a life to live. More than likely it don't include training or mentoring anyone except maybe his sons.

 

I know but it actually happens all the time. Jordan Palmer, Carson’s brother and former QB as well as David Carr, Kurt Warner and others all had lives too and they mentored current QBs in the league. David Cutcliffe gave his time to bothe Eli and Peyton every offseason.  

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