Not Having Peyton Was Not The Reason We Went 2-14

[CR91]

the reason we went 2-14 is because we relied so much on peyton. everything we did on offense was because of peyton and once he was gone the coaches found themselves unprepared to handle the situation of playing football without peyton. what they tried to do which i found ridiculous was have our qbs mimic what peyton does and run the offense they way he did it which is impossible. you cant run peyton's offense without peyton. it wasnt until we learn to run the ball and make simple throws that we started to win, but by that time it was too late. coaches are the biggest reason we failed in 2011 because they failed to their jobs. teams like the patriots and steelers survived without their starting qb because their coaches did their job. they took the pieces they had and made it work something our coaches failed to do. with players like wayne,clark,collie,garcon,addai, brown, there is no reason why our entire team crumbled because we didnt have peyton. i dont wanna hear about our defense because our defense was on the field a lot. the offense kept going 3 and out so what do you expect will happen. the defense will get tired and will give up plays. coaching not peyton was the reason we had a horrible year.

[ruksak]

You can break your arm reaching like that. Be careful!

People can lay out all the reasons they want to, the cold hard facts say that our team, our coaches, our schemes haven't been up to par over the years despite all the wins. It's been ten years since we had a losing season and the only difference I saw last year was no Manning.

Was his abscence the only reason we lost? Nope. If was the catalyst for an implosion. We really shouldn't pursue a singular line of thought to find answers for last year.

The reasons are many;

No Peyton

No competent back-up QB

Inept coaching

Antiquated defensive schemes

Injury

Poor decision making from the FO

coaching not peyton was the reason we had a horrible year.

You're wrong. It was both and then some. Lets not forget that Peyton got these same "bums" to the SB just 2 years ago. Coyer and his flawed cover-2. Caldwell and his perceived pop-warner skills. Peyton took a fairly inept team to the SB. This is why, year after year, the pundits would start out by saying this is the year that the Colts fall, and yet we would come out with another 13/14 win season. Finally they were right, and by no coincidence, it was also our first year without Manning since the days of Harbaugh.

[CR91]

you cant say not having peyton was the reason you lost because that is stupid. teams with less have won with no bodies at qb. the coaches failed to get our players ready. they had a job to do and failed. you cant tell me that because peyton wasnt here, there wasnt another qb that can take the talent we had and not win. one person does not make the team. the best franchises find ways to win even when their best player goes down. our defense may not have been lights out, but being the field for half the game doesnt help. injuries happen all the time, thats not an excuse on why a team loses. heck the packers had 17 players or so on IR and still won a super bowl.

[ruksak]

you cant say not having peyton was the reason you lost because that is stupid. teams with less have won with no bodies at qb. the coaches failed to get our players ready. they had a job to do and failed. you cant tell me that because peyton wasnt here, there wasnt another qb that can take the talent we had and not win. one person does not make the team. the best franchises find ways to win even when their best player goes down.

It's not that I disagree with you entirely. I believe you're trying too hard to compartmentalize and make a point that Peyton's absence was a non-factor.

Allow me to ask you a question. If we had a healthy Peyton Manning in 2011, do you feel we would have set a winning mark and made the playoffs? If not, why not?

[CR91]

It's not that I disagree with you entirely. I believe you're trying too hard to compartmentalize and make a point that Peyton's absence was a non-factor.

Allow me to ask you a question. If we had a healthy Peyton Manning in 2011, do you feel we would have set a winning mark and made the playoffs? If not, why not?

i believe 10 wins wouldnt be out of the question. browns,chiefs,jags twice, texans once, titans twice, panthers, bengals, bucs

[MR. Blueblood]

It's not that I disagree with you entirely. I believe you're trying too hard to compartmentalize and make a point that Peyton's absence was a non-factor.

Allow me to ask you a question. If we had a healthy Peyton Manning in 2011, do you feel we would have set a winning mark and made the playoffs? If not, why not?

Absolutely Manning was the factor, how can it not be when the whole entire team was built around the man? From every player to the coaching philosophy was because of Manning and what he could do. The coaches did fail to make the necessary adjustments once Manning went down, but for so many of them that's all the were used to. Everybody was caught with their pants down this season. Personally I'm thrilled it happened, it showed the flaws in logic of being a 1 player centric team, and it afforded us the #1 pick to get the QB of the future. I'm just hoping that they achieve the balance in the team Irsay has talked about and not just plug Luck in Manning's place and make the same mistakes over again.

[Coltsagent]

coltsrule91...you stated "the reason we went 2-14 is because we relied so much on peyton" then state "coaching not peyton was the reason we had a horrible year". Aren't those two statements a contradiction?

[ruksak]

i believe 10 wins wouldnt be out of the question. browns,chiefs,jags twice, texans once, titans twice, panthers, bengals, bucs

My prediction last year (before the loss of Manning) was 9 or 10 wins.

Think of how many teams we had a chance to beat, only losing by small margins. Pitt, Clev, KC etc. Even with a completely unprepared team and coaching staff we could easily have posted a 7 win season without a competent QB. Thats enough to convince me that a QB of Manning's talent could easily have posted 2 or 3 more wins. It seems a no-brainer assumption.

[FireJimCaldwell]

A healthy Manning and we are easily in the 10-13 win range.

He's dealt with a sub standard roster and sub-standard coaching for years. Last year would have been no different. Now come playoff time, that sub-standard roster and coaching would have likely reared its ugly head and we would have had minimal success, but with a healthy Manning this past year would have been no different from say the previous years.

[CR91]

coltsrule91...you stated "the reason we went 2-14 is because we relied so much on peyton" then state "coaching not peyton was the reason we had a horrible year". Aren't those two statements a contradiction?

let me rephrase. the coaches relied so much on peyton that they failed to do their job

[CR91]

My prediction last year (before the loss of Manning) was 9 or 10 wins.

Think of how many teams we had a chance to beat, only losing by small margins. Pitt, Clev, KC etc. Even with a completely unprepared team and coaching staff we could easily have posted a 7 win season without a competent QB. Thats enough to convince me that a QB of Manning's talent could easily have posted 2 or 3 more wins. It seems a no-brainer assumption.

yes having a qb like peyton does help a team, but can you have success with less. yes. look at bb when he had cassel. went 11-5. look at tomlin when he batch 5-1 or was it 4-2? the point is you can have success with proper coaching

[braveheartcolt]

You can break your arm reaching like that. Be careful!

People can lay out all the reasons they want to, the cold hard facts say that our team, our coaches, our schemes haven't been up to par over the years despite all the wins. It's been ten years since we had a losing season and the only difference I saw last year was no Manning.

Was his abscence the only reason we lost? Nope. If was the catalyst for an implosion. We really shouldn't pursue a singular line of thought to find answers for last year.

The reasons are many;

No Peyton

No competent back-up QB

Inept coaching

Antiquated defensive schemes

Injury

Poor decision making from the FO

You're wrong. It was both and then some. Lets not forget that Peyton got these same "bums" to the SB just 2 years ago. Coyer and his flawed cover-2. Caldwell and his perceived pop-warner skills. Peyton took a fairly inept team to the SB. This is why, year after year, the pundits would start out by saying this is the year that the Colts fall, and yet we would come out with another 13/14 win season. Finally they were right, and by no coincidence, it was also our first year without Manning since the days of Harbaugh.

And 5 years of below average drafting....

[ruksak]

yes having a qb like peyton does help a team, but can you have success with less. yes. look at bb when he had cassel. went 11-5. look at tomlin when he batch 5-1 or was it 4-2? the point is you can have success with proper coaching

Well sure. We had Curtis Painter. End of story on that.

We didn't have the right people around Manning. Everyone has known this for years, hence the reasoning for his 4 MVP's. Manning's absence wasn't the only reason we lost so bad last year. It was, however, the biggest singular reason for the debacle.

[betheafan41]

you cant say not having peyton was the reason you lost because that is stupid. teams with less have won with no bodies at qb. the coaches failed to get our players ready. they had a job to do and failed. you cant tell me that because peyton wasnt here, there wasnt another qb that can take the talent we had and not win. one person does not make the team. the best franchises find ways to win even when their best player goes down. our defense may not have been lights out, but being the field for half the game doesnt help. injuries happen all the time, thats not an excuse on why a team loses. heck the packers had 17 players or so on IR and still won a super bowl.

yeah ask the patriots, cassell got them to the playoffs when brady was out for the year. Dalton (A rookie) helped get the bengals to the superbowl, TJ Yates got the the texans to baltimore although it was ugly how they got there, they still did with a rookie QB.

Manning is an easy excuse to put out there when all you do is worship the guy. he was out for the year and it showed all of the holes the colts have. mainly on defense, and at the QB position. Polian did not build this team to win with out manning, and thats where it starts. Manning was the shield that covered every hole the colts have ever had over the last 14 years. Tampa 2 defense worked for awhile, then teams built their offense on running (especially in the AFC South) that it ate the tampa 2 defense alive. a speed defense is only good for pass coverage. this is rebuild mode and it starts in getting the next franchise QB, draft a lineman in the guard position move pollack to center if saturday retires, try to get wayne back on a small deal if he dont take it, move garcon to # 1 and collie to # 2 draft a big WR start him in the slot for a year or two then draft all defensive players and sign a possible FA or two on the defensive side, like zybikowski at safety and someone like tracy porter or Carr for CB.

[CR91]

Well sure. We had Curtis Painter. End of story on that.

We didn't have the right people around Manning. Everyone has known this for years, hence the reasoning for his 4 MVP's. Manning's absence wasn't the only reason we lost so bad last year. It was, however, the biggest singular reason for the debacle.

painter was in the system for years just like cassel. bb got 11 wins from cassel. we couldnt even get 1 from painter. cassel is nothing special in kansas city which tells me bb was the reason cassel had success.

[ruksak]

painter was in the system for years just like cassel. bb got 11 wins from cassel. we couldnt even get 1 from painter. cassel is nothing special in kansas city which tells me bb was the reason cassel had success.

Cassel is a much better QB than Painter. I seriously hope you aren't going to say differently? What Belichick would have done differently if he was the Colts HC is he would not have had Painter on the roster to begin with.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Manning is the reason we weren't 10-13 wins compared to around 6 wins.

Jim Caldwell & Clyde Christensen were the reasons we were 2-14 as opposed to around 6 wins.

[CR91]

Cassel is a much better QB than Painter. I seriously hope you aren't going to say differently? What Belichick would have done differently if he was the Colts HC is he would not have had Painter on the roster to begin with.

painter is who he is because of terrible coaching. not saying its all on the coaches about painter, but they didnt help him get better.

[Coltsagent]

let me rephrase. the coaches relied so much on peyton that they failed to do their job

Coaches are not the ones on the field, they dont win or lose games, players win or lose games. The coaches job is to put the players in position to win, but these are professional players, they know what it takes to win and the difference in this league between winning and losing is a small margin. Its still the players that strap on the pads and fight it out, not the coaches.

[The Fish]

The reason why we specifically went 2-14 and not 5-11 is because Painter is turrible.

[ruksak]

Manning is the reason we weren't 10-13 wins compared to around 6 wins.

Jim Caldwell & Clyde Christensen were the reasons we were 2-14 as opposed to around 6 wins.

Most smart, FJC. It cannot be explained any more simply or accurately.

[ruksak]

The reason why we specifically went 2-14 and not 5-11 is because Painter is turrible.

Hey! C'mon man! Save some hate for Collins.

[CR91]

Coaches are not the ones on the field, they dont win or lose games, players win or lose games. The coaches job is to put the players in position to win, but these are professional players, they know what it takes to win and the difference in this league between winning and losing is a small margin. Its still the players that strap on the pads and fight it out, not the coaches.

the coaches didnt put our players in position to win.

[UndecidedFrog]

Hey! C'mon man! Save some hate for Collins.

Collins was 38 years old when he played for the Colts last season, coming out of an announced retirement in July 2011. He had not started a game since 2009.

I think he performed as well as he was able to.

I also think we overpaid for his services.

[The Fish]

Hey! C'mon man! Save some hate for Collins.

He made it 2 games? Do you think he could have done better than Painter? I recall that strange two weeks were I was glad Painter was playing, after Collins got knocked out.

Painter got 10 games and yanked in two? He will always be responsible for the N.O debacle in my mind. That was the day I knew things were about to change. I recall thinking almost every time he completed a pass some minor miracle had occured.

Orlovsky went .500.

Peyton's absence last season can't be understated. It doesn't mean that there wasn't potentially a few more wins to be had with Orlovsky at the helm, but

not making that descsion was ball game for all that lost there job.

[ruksak]

Collins was 38 years old when he played for the Colts last season, coming out of an announced retirement in July 2011. He had not started a game since 2009.

I think he performed as well as he was able to.

I also think we overpaid for his services.

Can't argue with that. I was very disappointed in him. At first, I liked the signing.

[NagelHausForge]

I blame gremlins for the 2-14 season...

[UndecidedFrog]

Can't argue with that. I was very disappointed in him. At first, I liked the signing.

At the time the coaching staff and the FO judged correctly that Painter was not a better option.

However, they also failed to recognize that Collins was not an adequate solution.

[ruksak]

He made it 2 games? Do you think he could have done better than Painter?

I honestly do not know. Maybe Collins could've picked it up after a few more starts, maybe not?

I recall that strange two weeks were I was glad Painter was playing, after Collins got knocked out.

I did my part as a good little Colts fan. I got behind Painter and rooted for him to succeed, and it really looked like he may do just that. Then something happened. Something most uncool.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Collins was 38 years old when he played for the Colts last season, coming out of an announced retirement in July 2011. He had not started a game since 2009.

I think he performed as well as he was able to.

I also think we overpaid for his services.

Collins started 7 games in 2010.

We did overpay for his services, and that falls on Polian. With the amount of time he had in the offense I couldn't imagine him playing much better outside of a couple of his fumbles. Those are inexcusable.

Hey! C'mon man! Save some hate for Collins.

Polain/Caldwell get my Collins hate. He had no business trying to run this offense with such little time in it. As soon as Manning hit the operating table a 2nd time, they should have ditched the Manning offense and gone to an I based WCO hybrid incorporating some of the same terminology/routes/blocking schemes etc.

[ruksak]

At the time the coaching staff and the FO judged correctly that Painter was not a better option.

However, they also failed to recognize that Collins was not an adequate solution.

That's weird when you think about it. A correct decision (not trusting Painter) led to a poor decision (Signing a seemingly disinterested Collins).

[UndecidedFrog]

Collins started 7 games in 2010.

Collins started the 2009 season, but after a week 6 drubbing by the Pats (59-0), and posting a 0-6 record for that season, Fisher benched Collins in favor of Vince Young due to owner Bud Adams' insistence. I wasn't aware that he started after that.

We did overpay for his services, and that falls on Polian. With the amount of time he had in the offense I couldn't imagine him playing much better outside of a couple of his fumbles. Those are inexcusable.

Polain/Caldwell get my Collins hate. He had no business trying to run this offense with such little time in it. As soon as Manning hit the operating table a 2nd time, they should have ditched the Manning offense and gone to an I based WCO hybrid incorporating some of the same terminology/routes/blocking schemes etc.

[Thewholefnshow28]

Not having Peyton was the number one reason why we went 2-14 and there really is not much argument against that.

With that said there are underlying issues that really exasperated the situation.

1) Bill Polian's inability to develop a defense to surround Manning with is the second most important issue. He instead built a defense that was dependent on Peyton's ability. This defense was built to only play with a lead. Sure sometimes they had a great game on their own like during our Super Bowl run or the game a few years back against Cleveland, but for the majority of Manning's career that defense has just been to dependent on Manning getting a lead.

2) Our coaching staff's inability to determine who gave us the best chance to win as a back up QB is the third most important issue. We had Dan on our roster learning our system during the preseason. Dan outdid Painter during the preseason and was ultimately cut and here we are going to a 38 year old QB instead of just sticking with the guy who looked the best during the preseason. Instead of switching to Collins and then back to Painter and then to Orlovsky we could have just stuck with Orlovsky from the beginning.

I still believe that this team really is not as talented as we had thought. You do not go 2-14 while still being a very talented team. I think this team has some talent in areas, but all of the worts and scars were covered up by Manning. That is why ultimately this season rests on the neck of Peyton Manning.

We have Peyton and we are probably a ten win team this year.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Collins started the 2009 season, but after a week 6 drubbing by the Pats (59-0), and posting a 0-6 record for that season, Fisher benched Collins in favor of Vince Young due to owner Bud Adams' insistence. I wasn't aware that he started after that.

In 2010 he started most of the last part of the season.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CollKe00/gamelog//

Some good games, that they didn't win, some average games, and a couple of poor ones.

[BNS]

Winning is a team effort...and so is losing, so to speak. Lots of reasons we went 2-14 - No Manning, no adequate back-up QB, LOTS of injuries to starters on both sides of the ball, poor coaching decisions, players not playing up to their talent level (which I know is affected by surrounding players), losing is contagious (sp) just like winning, breaks not going our way that used to go our way, playing a schedule based upon our record in 2010. You can't point to one or two things as the reason for a 2-14 year...there are many factors involved. A team can overcome one or two negative factors, but usually not several. Of course, the biggest factor was not having Manning, but there were many others, too.

[UndecidedFrog]

In 2010 he started most of the last part of the season.

http://www.pro-footb...lKe00/gamelog//

Some good games, that they didn't win, some average games, and a couple of poor ones.

Thanks, no wonder I totally forgot about that. It was a pretty blah season for him (3-7).

[FireJimCaldwell]

Thanks, no wonder I totally forgot about that. It was a pretty blah season for him (3-7).

For the most part it was.

Notice who his two best statistical games were against? Our horrid defense. 71.8% , 544 yards and 5 td passes 0 int's in two losses totaling 5 points.

[UndecidedFrog]

For the most part it was.

Notice who his two best statistical games were against? Our horrid defense. 71.8% , 544 yards and 5 td passes 0 int's in two losses totaling 5 points.

Do you think that is why Caldwell/Polian wanted him?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Do you think that is why Caldwell/Polian wanted him?

They both had ties to him. Caldwell @ Penn State. Polian @ Carolina, so they both had a history. I feel that he would have started to progress with more time in the system.

It's just 2 weeks and you expect him to run this offense? No chance.

I would say it contributed to it, but I think the connection was a main reason. Polian's always brought in players he's had elsewhere.

[Slick_Rick]

You can break your arm reaching like that. Be careful!

People can lay out all the reasons they want to, the cold hard facts say that our team, our coaches, our schemes haven't been up to par over the years despite all the wins. It's been ten years since we had a losing season and the only difference I saw last year was no Manning.

Was his abscence the only reason we lost? Nope. If was the catalyst for an implosion. We really shouldn't pursue a singular line of thought to find answers for last year.

The reasons are many;

No Peyton

No competent back-up QB

Inept coaching

Antiquated defensive schemes

Injury

Poor decision making from the FO

You're wrong. It was both and then some. Lets not forget that Peyton got these same "bums" to the SB just 2 years ago. Coyer and his flawed cover-2. Caldwell and his perceived pop-warner skills. Peyton took a fairly inept team to the SB. This is why, year after year, the pundits would start out by saying this is the year that the Colts fall, and yet we would come out with another 13/14 win season. Finally they were right, and by no coincidence, it was also our first year without Manning since the days of Harbaugh.

You, sir, have hit the nail on the head. Please, submit a resume' to either NFLN or ESPN! I couldn't agree more. The Colt's weren't built around Peyton, rather Peyton built the Colts.