Why Quincy Wilson isn't playing

[Valpo2004]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/10/20/why-isnt-colts-rookie-quincy-wilson-playing-more/772033001/

 

I was worried that Wilson might be a bust but this article seems argue differently.  

 

To break it down here is what it says.

 

A. Wilson hasn't yet been able to displace Melvin or Davis (which I think is ok given he's a rookie)

B. Wilson can't play the slot.  (So he's limited to an outside CB role)

C. Because he essentially can't start on defense the decision on who's active as a reserve often depends on special teams ability which Wilson is apparently lacking at.

 

This article was written before the Jags game.  I'm wondering with the concussion to Melvin if we will see a little bit more of Wilson?  

 

Now reading all of that I have to say while I find the explanation believable I feel like it's a dis-service to the team in the long term.  Wilson needs to get some experience in actual games to help prepare himself for a bigger role on D in the future.  I'm willing, especially now to sacrifice a better special teams player in order to get him some experience.  

 

That said given that the coaching staff is likely coaching for their jobs, they probably see it differently. 

 

[lollygagger8]

I thought he did well in the limited action we've seen him in. I also feel he needs a lot more reps (only way to get better) and should be starting over Milton. 

 

I was really looking forward to seeing Vontae, Wilson, Hooker and Geathers on the field at the same time, but that's not going to happen this year.

 

 

[csmopar]

[ColtsBlitz]

I'm pretty sure it's because he can't play special teams. 

 

And it goes to prove how special Pagano is. Special Pags. 

[IndyD4U]

I heard he was benched for ST reasoning. Not sure if true, probably read that here

[ColtsBlueFL]

18 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

I'm pretty sure it's because he can't play special teams. 

 

And it goes to prove how special Pagano is. Special Pags. 

 

7 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

I heard he was benched for ST reasoning. Not sure if true, probably read that here

 

Here are agano's and Monachino's words on the subject-

 

“He’s got to stay healthy and then he’s got to produce,” Pagano said of Wilson. “He went out and played a good game (against Arizona) and got injured and missed time. Now, he’s trying to work his way back. He’s healthy now. He has to have a great week of practice on defense. He has to have a great week of practice on special teams. You’ve got to earn your way every single day and every single week. He’ll have another opportunity.”

But for non starting cornerbacks, well, as Monachino put it ...

 

"Those guys that aren’t figuring in the top of the depth chart, those guys all have roles on special teams,” defensive coordinator Ted Monachino said. “If they can’t contribute and dominate the way they need to on special teams, then they’ll be inactive. That’s why you bring in all those corners is because it helps you in special teams.  ...   But I will tell you, if they can’t unseat those guys that we’re saying are starters and (you’re) just average at best at special teams, (you’re) not going to be up on game day. We’ve got too many other holes to fill.”

[IndyD4U]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Here are agano's and Monachino's words on the subject-

 

“He’s got to stay healthy and then he’s got to produce,” Pagano said of Wilson. “He went out and played a good game (against Arizona) and got injured and missed time. Now, he’s trying to work his way back. He’s healthy now. He has to have a great week of practice on defense. He has to have a great week of practice on special teams. You’ve got to earn your way every single day and every single week. He’ll have another opportunity.”

But for non starting cornerbacks, well, as Monachino put it ...

 

"Those guys that aren’t figuring in the top of the depth chart, those guys all have roles on special teams,” defensive coordinator Ted Monachino said. “If they can’t contribute and dominate the way they need to on special teams, then they’ll be inactive. That’s why you bring in all those corners is because it helps you in special teams.  ...   But I will tell you, if they can’t unseat those guys that we’re saying are starters and (you’re) just average at best at special teams, (you’re) not going to be up on game day. We’ve got too many other holes to fill.”

 

Thanks for citing this in my laziness. 

[krunk]

Milton can play special teams, but the problem is he can't play any football. Give me the guy that is so so on special teams, but can actually play football. And that guy is Quincy Wilson.    Jeesh!

 

And where the hell was Desir yesterday?  Was he inactive or something?

[VaAllDay757]

This is dumb you telling me wilson can't beat melvin for the CB2 spot???? Man chuck should be fired like NOW lol melvin would better at the slot anyway let the 2ND ROUND PICK earn his job

[BlueShoe]

35 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

I heard he was benched for ST reasoning. Not sure if true, probably read that here

 

If you heard it here then it's just as good as Gospel.  

 

[VaAllDay757]

29 minutes ago, krunk said:

Milton can play special teams, but the problem is he can't play any football. Give me the guy that is so so on special teams, but can actually play football. And that guy is Quincy Wilson.    Jeesh!

 

And where the hell was Desir yesterday?  Was he inactive or something?

Yeah desir was inactive too but I expect both of them to play sunday

[1959Colts]

Pagano's expertise is in the secondary ("pass defense guru")

I'm sure he will get it all together.

 

[BlueShoe]

11 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Pagano's expertise is in the secondary ("pass defense guru")

I'm sure he will get it all together.

 

If it wasn't such great sarcasm then maybe it wouldn't hurt so much.

 

[krunk]

19 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Yeah desir was inactive too but I expect both of them to play sunday

That really got my goat.   Quincy and Desir inactive with Milton playing.

Unbelievable.

[DaColts85]

12 minutes ago, krunk said:

That really got my goat.   Quincy and Desir inactive with Milton playing.

Unbelievable.

Right!  I could not believe neither was active but yet Milton was.  Are they going to claim that Milton is the better guy f or depth and ST.  Desir at least should have been active, I mean c'mon man!

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, IndyD4U said:

I heard he was benched for ST reasoning. Not sure if true, probably read that here

 

If you read it here as a post, there's better than a 50-50 shot that it's NOT true.

 

 

[Colt Overseas]

I think its probably more to do with Quincy finding playing in a zone defense difficult because he has spent his whole life playing man. Then his ST ability, or lack of, is compounding it.

 

Either way he has to be activated, he is at least definitely better than Milton and he will never improve or develop if he doesn't play. Also he did play well in his only game, that should merit him active for the next game.

[jameszeigler834]

20 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

I think its probably more to do with Quincy finding playing in a zone defense difficult because he has spent his whole life playing man. Then his ST ability, or lack of, is compounding it.

 

Either way he has to be activated, he is at least definitely better than Milton and he will never improve or develop if he doesn't play. Also he did play well in his only game, that should merit him active for the next game.

They need to stop playing that prevent me from winning defense anyway.

[krunk]

Zak Keefer @zkeefer

Asked about rookie CB Quincy Wilson (healthy scratch recently), Pagano: "We're gonna get that kid up, and he's gonna play for us."

10/23/2017, 3:44:42 PM

 

 

Now look at this mess.   Why does it always take some kind of disaster to wake these dudes up?  You mean to tell me he doesn't have to be good at special teams now?  Or did he just master them after that blow out yesterday?  Of course he needs to play dumb dumb.

 

Just like them getting Mack the ball yesterday.   It took them getting embarrased about the 2 carries versus Tenn to realize and execute that.

[shasta519]

The ST reasoning is just stupid. And to be honest anymore, I think hubris/stubbornness drives many of the decisions of this coaching staff.

 

On STs, you have essentially ten guys who can make a play...so it's much easier to hide an average player. However, in the secondary, you probably have at most one guy back there if you get beat (and sometimes no one). So I would much rather have the better CB, regardless of how he plays on STs. On top of that, there are several more pass plays each vs STs plays each game...and those pass plays are much much more likely to have an impact on the game. 

[#12.]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

Milton can play special teams, but the problem is he can't play any football. 

 

Yeah, that is a problem.

[Superman]

52 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

The ST reasoning is just stupid. And to be honest anymore, I think hubris/stubbornness drives many of the decisions of this coaching staff.

 

It's not. It makes plenty of sense. Backup corners have to play STs, and that's true around the league. Some teams use starters for STs, including the Pats.

 

But, I think it's more than just his inability to perform on STs. Throughout the offseason, this staff that is typically unwilling to say anything less than complimentary about any of their players has called out Quincy Wilson on multiple occasions, in no uncertain terms. Pagano, the primary one who won't say anything negative publicly, volunteered over the summer that Wilson wasn't in shape and had to get it together by camp.

 

Since then, Monachino has several times said that Wilson has to 'learn how to be a pro,' 'has to perform on teams,' 'is starting to come around but has work to do,' etc. And Pagano recently went back to 'he has to earn his way.' This is a departure, IMO, from the way the Colts normally talk about their players, especially their rookies. It's usually all glowing praise and pats on the back, but they've been a little more willing to criticize Wilson.

 

Ballard is a different story; he's been more open about young players than Pagano and Co. And Monachino is a little more blunt than Pagano anyways. but I feel like there's something about Wilson that rubbed them the wrong way early on, and they're going out of their way not to coddle him. 

 

So when you combine his lack of STs acumen with his various nagging injuries, and sprinkle on top of that an irritation between him and the coaches, it adds up to healthy scratches on Sunday.

 

All JMO, and there's lots of unfounded speculation and conjecture in there. That's just my read on it.

[bananabucket]

Because we have the dumbest coaching staff in the league.

[hoosierhawk]

All doesn't make sense. To begin with, how may KOs per game do we have and how many are touchbacks? Secondly, how may punts have we had return this year? To keep an inferior  CB to play ST vs a good backup CB doesn't make sense especially if the better CB is a rookie 2nd rounder who needs experience.

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, krunk said:

Milton can play special teams, but the problem is he can't play any football. Give me the guy that is so so on special teams, but can actually play football. And that guy is Quincy Wilson.    Jeesh!

 

And where the hell was Desir yesterday?  Was he inactive or something?

milton is below average so why not wilson

[BR-549]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

It's not. It makes plenty of sense. Backup corners have to play STs, and that's true around the league. Some teams use starters for STs, including the Pats.

 

But, I think it's more than just his inability to perform on STs. Throughout the offseason, this staff that is typically unwilling to say anything less than complimentary about any of their players has called out Quincy Wilson on multiple occasions, in no uncertain terms. Pagano, the primary one who won't say anything negative publicly, volunteered over the summer that Wilson wasn't in shape and had to get it together by camp.

 

Since then, Monachino has several times said that Wilson has to 'learn how to be a pro,' 'has to perform on teams,' 'is starting to come around but has work to do,' etc. And Pagano recently went back to 'he has to earn his way.' This is a departure, IMO, from the way the Colts normally talk about their players, especially their rookies. It's usually all glowing praise and pats on the back, but they've been a little more willing to criticize Wilson.

 

Ballard is a different story; he's been more open about young players than Pagano and Co. And Monachino is a little more blunt than Pagano anyways. but I feel like there's something about Wilson that rubbed them the wrong way early on, and they're going out of their way not to coddle him. 

 

So when you combine his lack of STs acumen with his various nagging injuries, and sprinkle on top of that an irritation between him and the coaches, it adds up to healthy scratches on Sunday.

 

All JMO, and there's lots of unfounded speculation and conjecture in there. That's just my read on it.

That is all good interpretation and it makes sense..... BUT... we are also 2-5... so what does it hurt to play the kid? 

 

Point being that maybe, just maybe our second round pick this year might be better than what is on the field.  Or if not, he won't be any better at either ST nor CB if he doesn't get the reps in real time against teams that we are playing.  I have little confidence in our staff at all to decide if he should or shouldn't be playing... for whatever reason.

 

If for some reason he is not going to be able to perform at some point soon, I am going to have to start questioning the talent evaluating ability of Chris Ballard.  Or at least, his resolve when it comes time for CP and Co. to make the call on who is starting and who isn't.

 

BTW, our special teams are pretty good as far as I can see so QW needs rotation at CB... period.

[RockThatBlue]

I think the reasoning is dumb. He can't play STs, so just bench him completely, even with the inept play from our CBs?

[Superman]

27 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

That is all good interpretation and it makes sense..... BUT... we are also 2-5... so what does it hurt to play the kid? 

 

Point being that maybe, just maybe our second round pick this year might be better than what is on the field.  Or if not, he won't be any better at either ST nor CB if he doesn't get the reps in real time against teams that we are playing.  I have little confidence in our staff at all to decide if he should or shouldn't be playing... for whatever reason.

 

If for some reason he is not going to be able to perform at some point soon, I am going to have to start questioning the talent evaluating ability of Chris Ballard.  Or at least, his resolve when it comes time for CP and Co. to make the call on who is starting and who isn't.

 

BTW, our special teams are pretty good as far as I can see so QW needs rotation at CB... period.

 

I would play him. I understand their decision, but I don't agree with it. If he's healthy, he should be active and on the field, and get creative to figure out STs.

 

That's partly why I think it's not just the STs issue, but I do acknowledge it as a legitimate factor.

[ColtsBlueFL]

22 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

They need to stop playing that prevent me from winning defense anyway.

 

It does not matter what defense we try to play.  Colts give up the  most points per game and most plays over 20 yards...   by far.

 

We are so bad that even in a prevent D, which is supposed to keep things in front of you, we still give up big plays.  Our pass D is purely poor; in any scheme.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I would play him. I understand their decision, but I don't agree with it. If he's healthy, he should be active and on the field, and get creative to figure out STs.

 

That's partly why I think it's not just the STs issue, but I do acknowledge it as a legitimate factor.

 

Yes, indeed. Stephen Morris ring a bell?

 

Coaches talk... move to other teams... keep friendship ties...  a players negatives will follow him all around the league. QW needs to mind his P's and Q's (not the Pints and Quarts type either) and get with the program.

[IinD]

Reminds me of a dumb boss I had who always complained about things like filling the dishwasher at work, but was okay with people leaving and getting to work late all the time.

 

Gotta pick your battles. Play him, worry about his ST ability as the weeks go on.

If we were 5-2 I completely understand his point, but we're not, we're looking ahead at most likely 2-7/8 in the next few weeks.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's not. It makes plenty of sense. Backup corners have to play STs, and that's true around the league. Some teams use starters for STs, including the Pats.

 

But, I think it's more than just his inability to perform on STs. Throughout the offseason, this staff that is typically unwilling to say anything less than complimentary about any of their players has called out Quincy Wilson on multiple occasions, in no uncertain terms. Pagano, the primary one who won't say anything negative publicly, volunteered over the summer that Wilson wasn't in shape and had to get it together by camp.

 

Since then, Monachino has several times said that Wilson has to 'learn how to be a pro,' 'has to perform on teams,' 'is starting to come around but has work to do,' etc. And Pagano recently went back to 'he has to earn his way.' This is a departure, IMO, from the way the Colts normally talk about their players, especially their rookies. It's usually all glowing praise and pats on the back, but they've been a little more willing to criticize Wilson.

 

Ballard is a different story; he's been more open about young players than Pagano and Co. And Monachino is a little more blunt than Pagano anyways. but I feel like there's something about Wilson that rubbed them the wrong way early on, and they're going out of their way not to coddle him. 

 

So when you combine his lack of STs acumen with his various nagging injuries, and sprinkle on top of that an irritation between him and the coaches, it adds up to healthy scratches on Sunday.

 

All JMO, and there's lots of unfounded speculation and conjecture in there. That's just my read on it.

 

Sure...if it's multiple things, I can see it. I was just referencing the idea that Wilson is inactive due to STs.  

[jameszeigler834]

9 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

It does not matter what defense we try to play.  Colts give up the  most points per game and most plays over 20 yards...   by far.

 

We are so bad that even in a prevent which is supposed to keep things in front of you, we still give yup big plays.  Pass D is purely poor.

Prevent is the defense I call the prevent me from winning they need to scrap that play from the playbook.

[Defjamz26]

I don't remember them benching Dorsett when he failed at STs. I don't agree with the reasoning here. There's something more to this that we're not being told. But I know that with Hooker injured, they need to have Wilson out there. They need all the coverage help they can get.

[GoColtsWin]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

So when you combine his lack of STs acumen with his various nagging injuries, and sprinkle on top of that an irritation between him and the coaches, it adds up to healthy scratches on Sunday.

Agree. Kid seems to have “maturity” problems, that the staff have tried to reign-in/deal with since he reported to camp early on. He’s got talent though, just needs to wake up to his reality and learn. 

[krunk]

Everything in football can't be fair all the time.   Sometimes you got to be a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to the people you know are the superior talents.  Yeah you want much of it to be about competition, but again on no planet would I have Desir and Quincy Wilson inactive to allow Milton to play over them.   I've seen enough of Milton to know you're dealing with average or worst.   Good special teams player is what you got with that one. 

 

Quincy and Desir are really good depth behind Vontae and Melvin, and I think the kid Kenny Moore from New England has more talent than Milton.   If it's possible to have Desir, Wilson, and Moore out there on game day then that's who I'd go with most definitely.   And if Milton showed anything then I'd replace Moore with him .   I would not replace Wilson or Desir for Milton.  No

[OHColtfan]

When Mona says that he isn't at the top of the depth chart, something rings a bell when you look at who is above him on the depth chart. If he can't stand out enough in the games or practices to get above Milton or Desir or Moore, so that you don't care about his ST ability- then something is wrong.  Either he really isn't that good or they are not seeing it. Fact is, rookie or not, he should be able to shine head and shoulders above the likes of our 2nd and 3rd sting CB's. Who knows with this staff...

[Coltgoat]

Exactly OHColtfan. These numbnut coaches have no idea who is talented or not. He was doing fine for a rookie in his quite limited time playing.

Hopefully with the injuries it will force him to see some playing time! Sure he will take his lumps but this team is going nowhere right now so what can it hurt to give him some experience?

Don't really care if we lose by another touchdown these days.

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/23/2017 at 12:05 PM, VaAllDay757 said:

This is dumb you telling me wilson can't beat melvin for the CB2 spot???? Man chuck should be fired like NOW lol melvin would better at the slot anyway let the 2ND ROUND PICK earn his job

 

When you're a rookie and not playing well the earning starts with practice.

 

Pagano is literally telling people the Wilson may be talented but he has a lot to learn about being a pro.

 

Pagano is doing the right thing.   He's making Wilson EARN everything he gets.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/24/2017 at 5:25 AM, Defjamz26 said:

I don't remember them benching Dorsett when he failed at STs. I don't agree with the reasoning here. There's something more to this that we're not being told. But I know that with Hooker injured, they need to have Wilson out there. They need all the coverage help they can get.

 

They took Dorsett off of special teams.    You don't remember that?    Sure you do.

 

They cut the tiny free agent wide receiver after he fumbled three punts in a preseason game.    And you remember that too.

 

When Wildin figures out how to be a pro every day during the week as well as Sunday's THEN he'll be back in the game.

 

If Ballard had a problem with what Pagano is doing I would think he change it.   But he hasn't.    What does that tell you?