Dwayne Allen and Phillip Dorsett

[RockThatBlue]

Stats so far with NE in 4 games.

 

I thought both (especially Dorsett) would do better in NE. Yikes. Still early in the year, but that's bad.

 

Allen: 0 catches 0 yards

Dorsett: 4 catches 85 yards.

[aaron11]

ive thought allen was on the decline for a year or two now, maybe the injuries slowed him down

 

dorsett is anyone's guess really.  maybe he will break out, or he just is what he is.  if i had to bet it would be on the latter 

[BR-549]

46 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Stats so far with NE in 4 games.

 

I thought both (especially Dorsett) would do better in NE. Yikes. Still early in the year, but that's bad.

 

Allen: 0 catches 0 yards

Dorsett: 4 catches 85 yards.

Reminds me a little of their time in Indy

[King Colt]

Allen impressed no one yet the Pats trade to get him and his numbers beg the question "why"?

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, RockThatBlue said:

Stats so far with NE in 4 games.

 

I thought both (especially Dorsett) would do better in NE. Yikes. Still early in the year, but that's bad.

 

Allen: 0 catches 0 yards

Dorsett: 4 catches 85 yards.

 

Dorsett has 4 c atches for 85 yards and thats.......    bad?      A 21 yard per catch average?

 

Look,   the total numbers may not be there,  but that will come with time.    

 

Allen is a mystery to me.     He should be doing much, much better.

 

But I wouldn't pass judgement on Dorsett for some time.     He's got talent and I suspect NE will bring it out of him.

 

[RockThatBlue]

24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Dorsett has 4 c atches for 85 yards and thats.......    bad?      A 21 yard per catch average?

 

Look,   the total numbers may not be there,  but that will come with time.    

 

Allen is a mystery to me.     He should be doing much, much better.

 

But I wouldn't pass judgement on Dorsett for some time.     He's got talent and I suspect NE will bring it out of him.

 

21 yards per catch is good, but only one time per game is not good. That's pretty much the same type of production he had here, maybe a little worse really.

 

Allen hasn't been the same for a few years. I think the injuries have taken a toll on him mentally. He probably plays afraid to get hurt, which is not a good way to get production in the NFL. 

[Buck Showalter]

Yeah, as it stands, moving both players looks like two really solid moves by Ballard...

[Flying Elvis]

With Rob Gronkowski out Allen and Dorsett played a lot but were not targeted.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806584/how-the-patriots-adjusted-their-approach-without-rob-gronkowski

Quote

 

How the Patriots adjusted their approach without Gronkowski highlights this week’s snap-count analysis:

 

Offense: 74

 

WIDE RECEIVER

Chris Hogan -- 74

Brandin Cooks -- 72

Danny Amendola -- 55

Phillip Dorsett -- 20

 

As the numbers show, the Patriots played the majority of the game in the three- and four-receiver set, which is a direct result of being without Gronkowski. This a good example of how the team tapped its strength at a different position to account for that void, although the attack seemed to miss Gronkowski most in the red zone.

 

TIGHT END

Dwayne Allen -- 50

Jacob Hollister -- 8

Cameron Fleming -- 1

 

Hollister was open on a crossing route on one play when quarterback Tom Brady had a pass batted down at the line of scrimmage. The tight ends otherwise weren’t targeted in the passing game.

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Shows that it wasn't coaching here in that caused their poor play

[ReMeDy]

2 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

With Rob Gronkowski out Allen and Dorsett played a lot but were not targeted.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806584/how-the-patriots-adjusted-their-approach-without-rob-gronkowski

 

 

Yea, that's a good point. Despite Gronkowski's injury and despite not having Edelman, we aren't seeing Allen or Dorsett putting up the numbers. Imagine what Allen and Dorsett's numbers will look like when New England is fully healthy at receiving!

[jameszeigler834]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Dorsett has 4 c atches for 85 yards and thats.......    bad?      A 21 yard per catch average?

 

Look,   the total numbers may not be there,  but that will come with time.    

 

Allen is a mystery to me.     He should be doing much, much better.

 

But I wouldn't pass judgement on Dorsett for some time.     He's got talent and I suspect NE will bring it out of him.

 

Dorsett aint that great Hiltons numbers are down but yet he is getting an average of 17 per catch. So as far I I see yards per catch is misleading.

[mikey287]

Why someone would use yards per catch on such a small sample size on a fringe player is way beyond me...

[WoolMagnet]

16 hours ago, mikey287 said:

Why someone would use yards per catch on such a small sample size on a fringe player is way beyond me...

Uh, think it might give insight to how he is used?

[mikey287]

No, not at all. That doesn't make sense. It's a misuse of statistics.

[aaron11]

41 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Uh, think it might give insight to how he is used?

there is more to it than that

 

why would they trade for these guys but then not use them?  its probably because they dont deserve more targets, especially allen 

[WoolMagnet]

2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

there is more to it than that

 

why would they trade for these guys but then not use them?  its probably because they dont deserve more targets, especially allen 

I have several thoughts on this.

allen:  i think NE thought they could get more out of him. A head scratcher in some ways. I love Allen and he had value in red zone  but the the drops killed.  Hes an expensive blocker now.  Hes getting snaps. 

Dorsett:  hes caught most of his targets.  He was insurance.  NE was desperate. Edelman went down, then cooks and gronk had nagging type problems. Cooks was the breaking point.  Dorsett is very similar type and bill sees potential in dorsett as i do.  

 At first i thought NE got the better end.  Now i think we dumped $ on allen deal (contract) and i'll take brissett for dorsett anyday. (In hindsight). Well done Ballard.

 

  but these are more examples of ex-colts not workin ng in NE. (Addai, wayne,etc). I wonder if our culture is too soft.  Remember when reggie said "it wasnt fun?"  

 

Belichek benches you.......

Pagano hands out participation hugs.

 

[Jules]

Stone Hands FTW

[Chrisaaron1023]

I'm still flabbergasted we kept Allen and not Fleener..

[RockThatBlue]

6 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I'm still flabbergasted we kept Allen and not Fleener..

Same. Not that Fleener was anything special, but I would take him over Allen.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I'm still flabbergasted we kept Allen and not Fleener..

Same

[cmgww]

At THIS TIME.....it looks like the Colts got the better end of the deals....Dorsett and Allen aren't doing anything now...and we'd likely, no we WOULD be winless without Brissett. Plus we got an extra pick in the 4th round next year, which is important to a team trying to rebuild on the fly.

 

Now this could all change, but as I see it now, the Colts are getting the better results, from especially the Brissett/Dorsett trade.

[Valpo2004]

First play from scrimmage of the season for the Pats I knew we won the Allen trade.

 

Brady had Allen wide open like 20 yards down field, threw him a perfect pass and Allen dropped it.  

 

Thanks for helping us move up a round in the last draft!  

 

Dorsett. . . It's not as easy to say we won that trade.  Pats where probably going to cut Brissett anyways.  It ended up just being a good trade for both teams.

 

From our prospective we got a guy who can play decent while Luck's on the bench and later possibly be a decent & cheap backup to Luck for a couple years.  We gave up a draft bust who was quickly dropping down the WR depth chart.  

 

From the Pat's prospective they got a decent depth player for a guy they had no use for and where going to cut in the first place.  

 

Trade was win/win

[GoPats]

 

Dorsett gets a little bit of a pass since he was traded so late in camp. We've also been hearing for years that for receivers, NE's system is very difficult to pick up. So I'll give him some time before passing any sort of judgment. 

 

Allen, on the other hand, has been here for an offseason, and has not been a part of their passing game at all. He's (supposedly, I can't say honestly I watch with this level of detail) been OK as a blocker, though. I don't think you're going to see much change there. If it hasn't gotten it by now, he probably won't. 

 

[dgambill]

17 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

Dorsett gets a little bit of a pass since he was traded so late in camp. We've also been hearing for years that for receivers, NE's system is very difficult to pick up. So I'll give him some time before passing any sort of judgment. 

 

Allen, on the other hand, has been here for an offseason, and has not been a part of their passing game at all. He's (supposedly, I can't say honestly I watch with this level of detail) been OK as a blocker, though. I don't think you're going to see much change there. If it hasn't gotten it by now, he probably won't. 

 

Allen has looked good in your running game imo. I don't think Bill wanted anything more than that and possibly another redzone target if Gronk went down. He was insurance imo. I just think Tom has guys he trusts and actually leans even more on them when the going gets tough and guys go down. He doesn't spread it around more he actually throws it to others less. Maybe I'm wrong because you've watched him over the years more closely but what I see is a guy that is comfortable...with full compliment of options..you would actually see Dorsett and some other get looks even more because Tom will go to like 7/8 receivers. When going gets tough Tom circles the wagons...says I know I can win with these few guys...Cook, Amendola, Hogan.....and then proceeds to throw 10 balls a piece to them and backs. He REALLY wants to stay ahead of the sticks...keep down and distance to his advantage and won't trust to throw to an unproven commodity when the margin of error is slim....if he had Edelman and Gronk to fall back on...sure he is going take more chances. That is why I think Allen and Dorsett would see more action/balls when the offense is healthy. Unfortunately for Phillip he pretty much is being used as he was here in preoccupying the safeties...deep but if he was to get more time running the underneath stuff you guys like to run...I think he can be very successful at it...problem is he is a clone of Cook as far as his skill set...just not as good...so Cook is going to see the type of balls that Dorsett would benefit from.

[Chrisaaron1023]

20 hours ago, dgambill said:

problem is he is a clone of Cook as far as his skill set...just not as good...so Cook is going to see the type of balls that Dorsett would benefit from.

Yes, yes he is. And I thought Phil would be running more underneath stuff too.. but he hasn't seen the field too much. Allen is a disaster, I kinda feel bad for him..

[chad72]

On 10/7/2017 at 4:28 PM, ReMeDy said:

 

Yea, that's a good point. Despite Gronkowski's injury and despite not having Edelman, we aren't seeing Allen or Dorsett putting up the numbers. Imagine what Allen and Dorsett's numbers will look like when New England is fully healthy at receiving!

 

It has everything to do with Brady not trusting them in a crunch situation, period, IMO. It is natural to trust someone who has been there longer.

 

Brady trusts Dorsett more than Allen, IMO, probably because of the TC drops that Allen had that did not sit well with BB or Brady, I am assuming.

 

I expect Dorsett's numbers to improve but not Allen's.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 10/7/2017 at 4:15 PM, PrincetonTiger said:

Shows that it wasn't coaching here in that caused their poor play

i concur

[GoColts8818]

On 10/8/2017 at 9:00 PM, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I'm still flabbergasted we kept Allen and not Fleener..

Yep.  I never got or liked that move.  Fleener would probably basically be our number two option if he were still here.  The only I can think of is that Grigson valued Allen’s blocking and play making ability in the red zone more than Fleener’s ability to stretch the field.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Yep.  I never got or liked that move.  Fleener would probably basically be our number two option if he were still here.  The only I can think of is that Grigson valued Allen’s blocking and play making ability in the red zone more than Fleener’s ability to stretch the field.

Was in the Fleener camp 

[eseae]

allen has been a total bust for them, not surprising. Dorset was brought in for depth, he seems to be what he is, maybe he'll develop into more, maybe not. I don't think anyone in NE- fans or coaches- expected him to become an integral part of the offense. The pats aren't using him that much thus the low stats. When he is on the field he's the 3rd or 4th option. hard to get stats in that position.

 

and with their wretched D, the pats have bigger things to worry about than allen and dorset.

[DrColtsFan]

Super Bowl stats seem to tell the final story of this season for these two. Dorsett 1 catch for 19 yards (even after losing their number 1 deep threat). Allen zero yards. 

[aaron11]

i could see dorsett being a contributor, the problem is he is the same type of player as cooks

 

allen will probably not make the team next year

[dw49]

11 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i could see dorsett being a contributor, the problem is he is the same type of player as cooks

 

allen will probably not make the team next year

 

NE right now has around 17 mill in cap space. Their best OL and LT Solder is a free agent. Allen is due a 500K roster bonus and a 4.5 mill salary.  

 

That said , there is a 100% probability Allen is released.

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

NE right now has around 17 mill in cap space. Their best OL and LT Solder is a free agent. Allen is due a 500K roster bonus and a 4.5 mill salary.  

 

That said , there is a 100% probability Allen is released.

I'll say it again.  The decision to sign Allen to that contract was probably the worse decision Grigson ever made.  At least Werner and Dorsett had some perceived potential, and TRich still had a decent reputation at the time of the trade. 

 

Allen hadn't performed in any decent way for years and it was obvious.

[MPStack]

Ashes to ashes dust to dust... L. Collins would've looked good in the Shoe!