Doyel: The Colts have no idea what they're doing

[colt18]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/09/10/doyel-colts-have-no-idea-what-theyre-doing/645793001/

 

 

Quote

Tolzien’s amateurish play Sunday – quarterback rating: 33.8 – was as predictable, if not as uncommon, as a lunar eclipse. Where were General Manager Chris Ballard and coach Chuck Pagano looking this summer when they chose Tolzien over Stephen Morris? Directly into the sun.

Quote

While Morris was fabulous for a second consecutive year of preseason games, Ballard said last week that the job went to Tolzien because he was better than Morris in offseason OTAs and again in the early practices of training camp. And Pagano on Sunday said he “would never second-guess” that decision, because Chuck Pagano is nothing if not reliably prone to say things that sound blatantly untrue.

Quote

This loss also falls on defensive coordinator Ted Monachino, who either chose converted safety T.J. Green to start and play most of the game at cornerback – or yielded that decision to Pagano, when what Monachino should have done was offer to resign before letting someone as lousy as T.J. Green undermine his defense. 

And make no mistake: T.J. Green is lousy. Moved from safety midway through the preseason because all he'd consistently done there since last season was miss tackles and deliver cheap shots, Green missed a tackle early in the second quarter when Rams running back Todd Gurley was fighting for extra yardage near the goal line. With Gurley’s entire body as a target, Green went for a cheap shot – he targeted Gurley’s head – but glanced off Gurley’s helmet, allowing the Rams running back to fall forward, into the end zone for a touchdown.

Oh, and Green was in coverage on Rams receiver Cooper Kupp’s 18-yard TD catch that gave the Rams a 24-3 lead. At the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, Kupp ran the 40-yard dash in 4.62 seconds. Green ran it in 4.34 seconds. On the touchdown in question, Kupp was wide open because he was running away from Green.

Don’t ask me to explain that. Still can’t believe I saw it.

Quote

Can’t believe what happened on the Colts’ second series, either, after Tolzien completed a short pass to Marlon Mack and Mack sprinted toward the end zone. When 5-8, 190-pound Rams safety Lamarcus Joyner approached near the goal line, he nudged the 5-11, 210-pound Mack pushed out of bounds. It was a soft play by Mack, a play the Colts have become famous for in recent years as their blowout losses have mounted – and then it became something much worse.

Because Chuck Pagano didn’t challenge the official ruling that Mack was pushed out of bounds before reaching the end zone. 

No, Pagano was too busy hurrying his next play onto the field – a power rush that Chudzinski gave to speed back Marlon Mack, who had just demonstrated that power is not his thing. With the Rams unable to substitute, Pagano was looking for a personnel mismatch, and he found one: His personnel was outmatched.

Pagano outsmarted himself, the only NFL coach I’ve ever seen him outsmart, and afterward said that whole sequence was on him.

 

 

 

 

Doyel is a real one for this article. Pagano must know he's done, it's simply a matter of time now

[OLD FAN MAN]

6 minutes ago, colt18 said:

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/09/10/doyel-colts-have-no-idea-what-theyre-doing/645793001/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doyel is a real one for this article. Pagano must know he's done, it's simply a matter of time now

i concur

[Jason_]

Just one thing. Doyel doesnt know that it was pagano telling the offense to hurry. That could have just as easily been a miscommunication with chud hurrying the offense whole chuck was trying to communicate with the replay coaches.  

 

If I were Ballard, I would find out definitively whose decision it was to hurry the offense and that person, regardless who it was, would be out of a job.  If I can't find out definitively I'd be damned tempted to can chuck and chud and promote philbin to finish out the year. 

[JMichael557]

The Head coach is in charge.

[Dustin]

Just replace the names in the article and change a detail or two and it's the same article that's been written since 2012. 

[Surge89]

I just wanna see players being played where they are even remotely close to being put in a position to succeed.  That's all I ask.  And I'm almost a 100% positive this coaching staff cannot do that.

[GoColts8818]

The play calling at the start was what've always seen under Chuck rather its Pep or Chud calling plays.  Pound it into the line twice and then throw on third and long.  Sorry this was just dumb with a backup QB against a good defense.  You know they are going to be setting on run early in the game. I would have rather they tried a play action pass or a screen and maybe catch the Rams being over agressive against the run.  

 

Still while Chuck doesn't call the plays on offense I am sure he tells the OC the game plan he wants and what've seen way too much from Pagano is predictable unimaginative offense play calls, especially early in games.  I think problem is the head coach more than it is the OCs under him.

 

As for Doyle I think the real truth there was no good choice between Tolizen and Morris which is why they traded for Brissett.  The problem is he doesn't know the playbook yet.  Still I'll take a watered down playbook under Brissett at this point over Tolizen.

[Jason_]

43 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Just replace the names in the article and change a detail or two and it's the same article that's been written since 2012. 

 

I'm pretty sure the articles written in late 2012 and into 2013 were more about how grigson won "executive of the year" for his work as colts GM. 

[Defjamz26]

It's funny how all of us who get labeled as Debbie downers or negative fans for saying Pagano, the D, and Green are trash are sitting here reading Doyle say what we've been saying. The Colts have been the same exact team for 5 years.

[Pacergeek]

In Andrew Luck's 6th season the strategy appears to be darts at a dartboard. Offensive line cannot protect Luck, and defensive line cannot generate pass rush. Team has no identity, and players look lost. Donte Moncrief, a good WR, was invisible. Have to involve key players. Had early success throwing to Doyle, and we stopped throwing him ball

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, colt18 said:

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/09/10/doyel-colts-have-no-idea-what-theyre-doing/645793001/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doyel is a real one for this article. Pagano must know he's done, it's simply a matter of time now

I thought they said Ballard was one of the best where it comes to evaluation of talent  in the league doesn't look like it based on the Morris situation.

[Dark Superman]

The Colts have been lost since 2011 when Manning had to sit out the entire year.

[cbear]

Please don't post anything related to that one trick pony, even after a loss like this. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

Just one thing. Doyel doesnt know that it was pagano telling the offense to hurry. That could have just as easily been a miscommunication with chud hurrying the offense whole chuck was trying to communicate with the replay coaches.  

 

If I were Ballard, I would find out definitively whose decision it was to hurry the offense and that person, regardless who it was, would be out of a job.  If I can't find out definitively I'd be damned tempted to can chuck and chud and promote philbin to finish out the year. 

i concur

[OLD FAN MAN]

44 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I thought they said Ballard was one of the best where it comes to evaluation of talent  in the league doesn't look like it based on the Morris situation.

i concur

[gacoop1]

Ballard brought in good players and it's up to the coaching staff to motivate them and have them play above their potential....something that Bellicheck does with his undrafted players.  If you have a coaching staff that's just collecting paychecks and not get these guys hype up and get them ready at game time, you're going to get what you saw today. Blowout, unprepared players, and a beginning of a loosing streak.  Just check out, Rod Marinelli one of the staff at Dallas, as the DC, he has his players really playing well, just ask the NY Giants.  19 - 3 Dallas....

[King Colt]

2 hours ago, J@son said:

Just one thing. Doyel doesnt know that it was pagano telling the offense to hurry. That could have just as easily been a miscommunication with chud hurrying the offense whole chuck was trying to communicate with the replay coaches.  

 

If I were Ballard, I would find out definitively whose decision it was to hurry the offense and that person, regardless who it was, would be out of a job.  If I can't find out definitively I'd be damned tempted to can chuck and chud and promote philbin to finish out the year. 

Hey! Your theoretical gerbbish left out the fact Pagano already took the pipe for it. He told the players in the locker room at half time and in his post game dribble took the blame as well. So call Ballard first thing Monday and give him your thoughts. 

[King Colt]

One key item on the OP - Pagano said today they got their * kicked by the 49ers. What a jerk.

[gacoop1]

There is a coach for you, he also probably thought he was in San Francisco.....Pathetic.

[Jason_]

26 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Hey! Your theoretical gerbbish left out the fact Pagano already took the pipe for it. He told the players in the locker room at half time and in his post game dribble took the blame as well. So call Ballard first thing Monday and give him your thoughts. 

 

Of course pagano took the heat for it. That's what head coaches do. If it had been a case where chud was the one to hurry them to the line then do you really think pagano would tell that to anyone outside of the organization? Of course not. 

 

If I'm Ballard, I call both chud and pags into my office. If chuck says it was his call and chud doesn't dispute? See ya chuck and chud is on a very short leash. Chuck takes the blame but chud comes clean and says it was him? Bye chud but chuck is on a very short leash because I still don't give him a full pass. If they try to get cute and neither backs down each claiming to be solely responsible...I fire them both. 

 

Whether I keep chud or not, if I have to replace pagano its with philbin, not chud.

 

Btw, the word you're looking for is gibberish. 

[MackAttack]

3 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

i concur

 

4 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I thought they said Ballard was one of the best where it comes to evaluation of talent  in the league doesn't look like it based on the Morris situation.

He traded our first round bust for a seemingly solid backup qb better than tolzien and Morris combined. I'd say that shows good evaluation of talent .

[Hoose]

Doyle is a first class front runner who is quick to dump on any mistakes. The fact that he's right about Pagano means nothing. A 4th grader could see that the Colts' head coach is in over his head and has been for some time. As for the new GM, his new D is being coached by another incompetent in Monachino. You cannot tell me that TJ Green is a better option than our rookie 2nd round pick. Green stinks and is Pagano's/Monachino's guy. And Chud's utterly unimaginative play calling makes it the trifecta of lousy coaching.  

But Doyle is wrong to take after the new GM. He has been saddled with Pagano and his band of misfit coaches and will likely have to wait it out until the season is over. This is a rebuilding/ tread water  year plain and simple. Hope for development of younger newer players and a healthy Luck. Next year, Colts fans. Next year. 

 

[Introspect]

3 hours ago, King Colt said:

One key item on the OP - Pagano said today they got their * kicked by the 49ers. What a jerk.

 

This team was preparing for the wrong team in the last two weeks??

This guy is so clueless that he can't remember who kicked his tail!  Just imagine what the players are thinking about regarding his in game decisions if his mind is so convoluted.

 

Arians never should have been let out the door. Sympathy goes nowhere in the NFL.

[BOTT]

I'm starting to thing think this Pagano fella is in over his head.

[Stephen]

What next we lose to the cards and he says the patriots stomped us out there lol

[lollygagger8]

The only thing that makes sense after this game is that they are tanking the season and Chuck Pagano is just the right man for the job. 

[Myles]

47 minutes ago, Stephen said:

What next we lose to the cards and he says the patriots stomped us out there lol

He might say that we got our butts kicked by the Orioles.  

[Defjamz26]

6 hours ago, J@son said:

 

Of course pagano took the heat for it. That's what head coaches do. If it had been a case where chud was the one to hurry them to the line then do you really think pagano would tell that to anyone outside of the organization? Of course not. 

 

If I'm Ballard, I call both chud and pags into my office. If chuck says it was his call and chud doesn't dispute? See ya chuck and chud is on a very short leash. Chuck takes the blame but chud comes clean and says it was him? Bye chud but chuck is on a very short leash because I still don't give him a full pass. If they try to get cute and neither backs down each claiming to be solely responsible...I fire them both. 

 

Whether I keep chud or not, if I have to replace pagano its with philbin, not chud.

 

Btw, the word you're looking for is gibberish. 

So once again we have a situation where the truth is right in front of our eyes but some still deny it. Wake up man. Pagano said it was his decision. It's the one thing he said that was probably true. This is like when we cut Chapman and Hughes for Parry and Anderson and Pagano said it was because the other guys were better but people vehemently denied that and instead said it was because we switched schemes. I get Pagano isn't always forthcoming with information at pressers, but, let's not overthink this. He didn't take the blame for it. He admitted it was his bad decision.

[Jason_]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

So once again we have a situation where the truth is right in front of our eyes but some still deny it. Wake up man. Pagano said it was his decision. It's the one thing he said that was probably true. This is like when we cut Chapman and Hughes for Parry and Anderson and Pagano said it was because the other guys were better but people vehemently denied that and instead said it was because we switched schemes. I get Pagano isn't always forthcoming with information at pressers, but, let's not overthink this. He didn't take the blame for it. He admitted it was his bad decision.

 

You seem to think that I'm still rah rah for chuck and I'm not. My point is that no matter who really made that call, chuck would take the blame in the eyes of the fans and media. So I'm not putting much stock in what he said during his presser but that doesnt mean I don't think it was his call. It very well could have been and if it truly was then he should have a pink slip in his hand as I type this. But I'm not taking anything he says in front of the media as truth in this type of situation. 

 

 

Trust me, I would never accuse you of overthinking anything. 

[Jason_]

I will say this...even if, as devils advocate, it was chud or someone else that told the offense to hurry to the line I still put some of the blame on chuck anyway for not stopping them. Even though it was early in the game, in that situation...he sees them running to the line, call a timeout so you have the chance to decide if you want to challenge. 

[CoachLite]

Where's Duke Tumatoe singing "Lord help our Colts" and the fans with brown paper bags over their heads? We were a better functioning team back then than we are now.

[VaAllDay757]

He's right tho most people up here are blind to it

[DougDew]

While I don't disagree with many of the observations Doyel makes, his credibility and objectivity is compromised by the the way he writes.

 

He always comes of as Bit Whiny, bitter about his place in life, so his articles are usually dripping with arrogant misplaced criticisms...like:

 

The team would have performed better with Stephen Morris instead of Tolzien.  And, that a 4.62 40 WR shouldn't be able to get open against a DB who runs a 4.34 40. And, acting surprised that a 210 pound RB gets pushed out by a 190 pound DB.  It happens.

 

Again.  Poor examples indicative of personal bitterness.

[Defjamz26]

41 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

You seem to think that I'm still rah rah for chuck and I'm not. My point is that no matter who really made that call, chuck would take the blame in the eyes of the fans and media. So I'm not putting much stock in what he said during his presser but that doesnt mean I don't think it was his call. It very well could have been and if it truly was then he should have a pink slip in his hand as I type this. But I'm not taking anything he says in front of the media as truth in this type of situation. 

 

 

Trust me, I would never accuse you of overthinking anything. 

I get what you're saying and it seems we're both feeling the same about Pagano. I just don't see why is a guy who is usually very stingy with information would come out and said he made a decision, only to be lying. Pagano may withhold information a lot and downplay how grim some things are, but IDK if he would just outright lie. I may have accused him of it in the past but that was mostly angry fan talk and being facetious. Pagano is a lot of things but I can't think he's straight up lie.

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, Hoose said:

Doyle is a first class front runner who is quick to dump on any mistakes. The fact that he's right about Pagano means nothing. A 4th grader could see that the Colts' head coach is in over his head and has been for some time.  

 

Exactly!  

 

[1959Colts]

What annoys me is, we will never know what Stephen Morris could have done. We all can only speculate and assume the management did what was best.

He never got a chance to play with the starters.

Whether regular season or preseason the Colts brass refused to expose him.

[Defjamz26]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

While I don't disagree with many of the observations Doyel makes, his credibility and objectivity is compromised by the the way he writes.

 

He always comes of as Bit Whiny, bitter about his place in life, so his articles are usually dripping with arrogant misplaced criticisms...like:

 

The team would have performed better with Stephen Morris instead of Tolzien.  And, that a 4.62 40 WR shouldn't be able to get open against a DB who runs a 4.34 40. And, acting surprised that a 210 pound RB gets pushed out by a 190 pound DB.  It happens.

 

Again.  Poor examples indicative of personal bitterness.

I think you took some of that too literal. He wasn't saying that Kupp shouldn't have gotten open because he's slow. What he was alluding too was how there's always so much talk about Green's athleticism being a strength, yet once again it did him no favors. Athletic with no idea how to use it.

 

Its the same thing with Mack. He wasn't really saying weight made a difference. He was saying that Mack shouldn't have any problem squaring up and dropping his shoulder against Joyner. Pagano should have reviewed it but Mack should've put on his big boy pants.

 

Doyle's like me. He doesn't talk and write to be taken literally on everything he says/writes.

[Jason_]

23 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I get what you're saying and it seems we're both feeling the same about Pagano. I just don't see why is a guy who is usually very stingy with information would come out and said he made a decision, only to be lying. Pagano may withhold information a lot and downplay how grim some things are, but IDK if he would just outright lie. I may have accused him of it in the past but that was mostly angry fan talk and being facetious. Pagano is a lot of things but I can't think he's straight up lie.

 

Oh I absolutely think he would outright lie to protect someone else on his staff.  I mean, he never made any public complaints about Grigson's meddling, forcing depth chart changes etc but plenty of evidence has come out now to suggest those things did happen, but Pagano did the right thing and reported it to Irsay and not the media.

 

Now I will give you this...based on all of the evidence (and that's not including anything chuck said in any pressers) it is highly, HIGHLY unlikely the call to hurry the offense would have come from Chud.  I don't see any OC, especially in that situation, taking that call out of the HC's hands.  So I do think that it most likely was Chuck's decision, and I was fuming afterwards.  I'd just like to be able to pull both Chud and Chuck into a room and ask them both directly exactly what happened, while being able to look directly into their eyes while they answer and if I were Ballard, that's exactly what I'd do.

 

And I apologize for the "wouldn't accuse you of overthinking anything" comment.  Admittedly I had just woken up, and it's Monday morning...that was uncalled for and I apologize.

[DougDew]

39 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I think you took some of that too literal. He wasn't saying that Kupp shouldn't have gotten open because he's slow. What he was alluding too was how there's always so much talk about Green's athleticism being a strength, yet once again it did him no favors. Athletic with no idea how to use it.

 

Its the same thing with Mack. He wasn't really saying weight made a difference. He was saying that Mack shouldn't have any problem squaring up and dropping his shoulder against Joyner. Pagano should have reviewed it but Mack should've put on his big boy pants.

 

Doyle's like me. He doesn't talk and write to be taken literally on everything he says/writes.

Doyel seems like the kind of person who will exaggerate mistakes by others if he doesn't like them for whatever reason.

 

 He also said he couldn't explain how 4.34 Green was behind 4.62 Kupp.  You and I could explain it, why can't the reporter who covers the Colts explain it.  

 

He's the type of person who uses stats to make a point, instead of using stats to help form a conclusion.  

[Defjamz26]

4 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Oh I absolutely think he would outright lie to protect someone else on his staff.  I mean, he never made any public complaints about Grigson's meddling, forcing depth chart changes etc but plenty of evidence has come out now to suggest those things did happen, but Pagano did the right thing and reported it to Irsay and not the media.

 

Now I will give you this...based on all of the evidence (and that's not including anything chuck said in any pressers) it is highly, HIGHLY unlikely the call to hurry the offense would have come from Chud.  I don't see any OC, especially in that situation, taking that call out of the HC's hands.  So I do think that it most likely was Chuck's decision, and I was fuming afterwards.  I'd just like to be able to pull both Chud and Chuck into a room and ask them both directly exactly what happened, while being able to look directly into their eyes while they answer and if I were Ballard, that's exactly what I'd do.

 

And I apologize for the "wouldn't accuse you of overthinking anything" comment.  Admittedly I had just woken up, and it's Monday morning...that was uncalled for and I apologize.

It's all good man. I didn't think too much of it. Like, I said we're on the same page. I think the only thing we differ on is if Pagano would lie. He definitely doesn't speak his mind all the time. And I understand that everyone does coach talk and you can't air dirty laundry, but he isn't even forthcoming about stuff that's obvious. Like how he said this is the most comfortable he's felt about an OL? Really Chuck? With 3 guys who are unknowns?

 

Id also say he is guilty of always either overselling things (players in particular) or downplaying the severity of certain situations (Lucks injury in 2015). Too many people try and make it seem like these are things that all NFL coaches do and that no one can talk about certain things, but Pagano is on a different level. Like I said, not sure if he lies, but he tries to pulls fast ones up there on the podium and it's all easy to see through.