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[Yates] Colts trade Phillip Dorsett for Jacoby Brissett


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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

He didn't win jack. The Patriots did. LeGarette Blount had more rushing yards than Brissett had passing yards. The Texans also turned the ball over 3 times.

 

I don't have a problem with Brissett. I'm just not going to give him credit he doesn't deserve. 

He won the game he started. I did not say he won the game by himself. I've made this clear twice now. I like how you over look his rushing yards w a TD. No Int's or turnovers so he didn't LOSE the game either. Also the team he started for at QB WON vs the best D in the NFL.

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5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He didn't win jack. The Patriots did. LeGarette Blount had more rushing yards than Brissett had passing yards. The Texans also turned the ball over 3 times.

 

I don't have a problem with Brissett. I'm just not going to give him credit he doesn't deserve. 

Where did I give him credit except for saying they won? I just pointed out other stats that were left out.

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2 minutes ago, JTrouble said:

He won the game he started. I did not say he won the game by himself. I've made this clear twice now. I like how you over look his rushing yards w a TD. No Int's or turnovers so he didn't LOSE the game either. Also the team he started for at QB WON vs the best D in the NFL.

 

He didn't win the game. The team did. QB wins aren't a thing.

 

I'm not overlooking anything he did as a rusher, it simply wasn't relevant to my point at the time, which was about Brissett's passing ability. 

 

Please stop trying to tell me that 11-19 for 103 yards is a winning effort.

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5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He didn't win the game. The team did. QB wins aren't a thing.

 

I'm not overlooking anything he did as a rusher, it simply wasn't relevant to my point at the time, which was about Brissett's passing ability. 

 

Please stop trying to tell me that 11-19 for 103 yards is a winning effort.

Well it was in a winning effort as the team won so....And for the 3rd time (hopefully is a charm) I did not say he won the game by his lonesome but he was part of the patriots team that DID WIN the game he started. Add in his 50 yards rushing and 1 TD and its not to shabby vs the best D in the NFL as a rookie 3rd string QB. I'm not saying he is going to be all pro dang lmao I just think there is talent there for a good back up QB. Something this team is clearly lacking. I'm just not as upset about the trade as you obviously are.

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

Please stop trying to tell me that 11-19 for 103 yards is a winning effort.

 

Fine.    

 

Please stop telling me that Jacoby Brissett and Stephen Morris are roughly the same guy.     They're not.     Not even a little.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I keep looking for the video of Stephen Morris in the regular season.     You still sticking with the idea that Brissett and Morris are roughly equal?   

 

Is this a serious post? 

 

Rather than platitudes about Brissett's QB record and preseason stat line, tell me what he does better than Morris. As a passer, rusher, anything. Is he more accurate? Does he throw a better deep ball? Is he tougher, more mobile? Does he read defenses better? 

 

I want to talk about how they play. You've just defaulted to Brissett > Morris because he's 1-1.

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Fine.    

 

Please stop telling me that Jacoby Brissett and Stephen Morris are roughly the same guy.     They're not.     Not even a little.

 

 

 

Again, what does Brissett do better than Morris?

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Again, what does Brissett do better than Morris?

 

How about he plays well enough to play in regular season NFL games.     Morris is struggling to make a roster.

 

Why do you insist that they're the same guy?     Apparently Chris Ballard doesn't agree with you.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, JTrouble said:

Well it was in a winning effort as the team won so....And for the 3rd time (hopefully is a charm) I did not say he won the game by his lonesome but he was part of the patriots team that DID WIN the game he started. Add in his 50 yards rushing and 1 TD and its not to shabby vs the best D in the NFL as a rookie 3rd string QB. I'm not saying he is going to be all pro dang lmao I'm just not as upset about the trade as you obviously are.

 

I'm not upset about the trade. (My only regret is I think we didn't utilize Dorsett properly, and I think we're about to see what we missed out on, which sucks. I have no problem with Brissett.)

 

I'm just not interested in being told that because a QB took snaps in a game that "he won the game." The team won the game. The QB play in that game was inconsequential. If it makes you feel better, I agree that he didn't lose the game (obviously), but Belichick wasn't going to give him the freedom to lose that game for them. 

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OK...

 

lets see see if we can't approach this from a different perspective...

 

Chris Ballard, who had seen the game tapes and the practice tapes has seen Stephen Morris.     And Chris Ballard just went and traded for Jacoby Brissett and used a trade commodity to do it.

 

So apparently Chris Ballard thinks that Brissett is much better than Morris.

 

Is there another way to view this?!?

 

 

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

How about he plays well enough to play in regular season NFL games.     Morris is struggling to make a roster.

 

Why do you insist that they're the same guy?     Apparently Chris Ballard doesn't agree with you.

 

 

More platitudes.

 

I've watched them both play, multiple times. I don't see anything that Brissett does better than Morris at QB. Evidently you don't either, because you still haven't offered anything other than 'he played and won, he's obviously better!' And you know that doesn't mean anything to me without context.

 

Also, how do you know what Ballard thinks with respect to Morris vs Brissett? All we know is that he values Brissett more than Dorsett. We don't even really know for sure what the plan is at QB. 

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One more thing...   since when are QB wins not a thing?

 

Teams keep track of that.   The league keeps track of that.     Media keeps track if that.     I agree that QBs get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose but that still doesn't mean that QB wins aren't a thing.

 

They are and always have been.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not upset about the trade. (My only regret is I think we didn't utilize Dorsett properly, and I think we're about to see what we missed out on, which sucks. I have no problem with Brissett.)

 

I'm just not interested in being told that because a QB took snaps in a game that "he won the game." The team won the game. The QB play in that game was inconsequential. If it makes you feel better, I agree that he didn't lose the game (obviously), but Belichick wasn't going to give him the freedom to lose that game for them. 

I agree Supe about how PD was used here and on how BB was going to utilize JB in that game. Also if BB wasn't going to give him the freedom to lose that game then that also reflects his stat line. He did what he needed to do to insure the team got the W. That's all you can ask for from a rookie 3rd stringer. Your are right though, we are about to see whether it was the coaching using PD incorrectly or if what was there to use just wasn't that good.

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

OK...

 

lets see see if we can't approach this from a different perspective...

 

Chris Ballard, who had seen the game tapes and the practice tapes has seen Stephen Morris.     And Chris Ballard just went and traded for Jacoby Brissett and used a trade commodity to do it.

 

So apparently Chris Ballard thinks that Brissett is much better than Morris.

 

Is there another way to view this?!?

 

 

 

This post was intended for @Superman

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Why couldn't we trade Chud for Mcdaniels....at least even out the trade.

 

i know Brissett was a third rd pick but he isn't that good. He does have some mobility and maybe we need that to play behind our line but I don't see the upside to adding him. Perhaps I over rate Dorsett but I've always thought he could be a playmaker if given the opportunity.

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6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

OK...

 

lets see see if we can't approach this from a different perspective...

 

Chris Ballard, who had seen the game tapes and the practice tapes has seen Stephen Morris.     And Chris Ballard just went and traded for Jacoby Brissett and used a trade commodity to do it.

 

So apparently Chris Ballard thinks that Brissett is much better than Morris.

 

Is there another way to view this?!?

 

By that logic, Chris Ballard thinks Brissett is much better than Tolzien also. 

 

But that logic is flawed up and down. First, it's based on the notion that Ballard trading for Brissett is necessarily an indication that he doesn't like Morris, and there's no evidence to support that. You can tell me that the coaching staff doesn't like Morris (or something about him, at least), but I don't thing it's a given that the coaching staff's rotations are a reflection of Ballard's viewpoint.

 

Second, Ballard didn't trade Morris for Brissett, and he didn't trade for Brissett and then cut Morris. Using that trade as evidence that Ballard thinks Brissett is better than Morris is, again, lacking. I'm not saying either of these things are untrue, only that you're reading more into this than I am.

 

Third, this is a classic appeal to authority. Even if this trade were proof that Ballard thinks Brissett is better than Morris, that doesn't mean it's true. I don't blame anyone one bit for taking Ballard's word and leaving mine in the trash can, but this is a logical fallacy. Just because Ballard thinks it's true doesn't make it true (if Ballard even actually thinks it's true). 

 

Lastly, I'm still waiting for a sincere opinion from you about what Brissett does better than Morris, besides make Chris Ballard feel all warm and fuzzy. 

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5 hours ago, CheezyColt said:

Because Moncrief was injured. This year, the year he was traded, he was behind Hilton, Moncrief, Rogers, and possibly Aiken. That's not a starter.

I'm not talking about this season everyone was saying he was getting cut anyway if that was true that didn't matter anyway

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6 hours ago, BR-549 said:

Send them to me... 

I am not saying he didn't play, LOL

I am saying if he was a starter wouldn't he still be here  LOL

Nobody said he didn't play but he was starting there's a difference....starters have lost their job too what you said made no sense

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10 minutes ago, JTrouble said:

I agree Supe about how PD was used here and on how BB was going to utilize JB in that game. Also if BB wasn't going to give him the freedom to lose that game then that also reflects his stat line. He did what he needed to do to insure the team got the W. That's all you can ask for from a rookie 3rd stringer. Your are right though, we are about to see whether it was the coaching using PD incorrectly or if what was there to use just wasn't that good.

 

I never said Brissett played a bad game. Look, this whole angle started because I was told that Brissett is better than Morris because 'he won a regular season game,' and I called that argument bogus. I'm not arguing that Brissett is bad. I asked a straight up question about his ability as a football player, in relation to a player we already have. All I got was 'he's better because he beat the Texans.' 

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

 

Kaep stinks, believe me. His off the field views have given him a cult of personality that have now overshadowed how bad he has been as a player for a while now. He was declining for years and was a fluke QB when he was good under Jim Harbaugh for a brief time. He benefited from a top defense too. 

 

The protesting is a reason he is not signed but thats also because he isn't worth the media distraction for the weak caliber of player he is. If he was a good to great player, he would have been signed a long time ago despite politics. If this was Cam Newton for example who did the same kneeling stuff, he would have been signed already.

 

We don't need his distractions here, we got enough problems as is. Adding more distractions with someone who gets his own rallies is just stupid IMO.

 

Also with Kaep there are rumors he wants starting money too and it was a reason he was not signed to Seattle.

 

 

His stats don't support that he stinks or that he is unworthy of a 2nd or 3rd string QB role in today's NFL.  That is the point.  There are much worse QBs out there holding clipboards this year. If he is asking for more money than teams are willing to pay that's one thing but the whole distraction bit like Riker1 says is a worn out excuse.  There are marginal players still in this league who have of done much worse.  Heck Riley Cooper was filmed making a racial slur in 2013 and went on to play that season and a couple more after that without near the backlash that Colin is getting. 

Colin Kaepernick Stats

Regular Season | Postseason

Passing Stats  
SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT
2011 3 3 5 60.0 35 7.00 0 19 0 0 76.4 81.3
2012 13 136 218 62.4 1,814 8.32 10 57 3 2 75.3 98.3
2013   16 243 416 58.4 3,197 7.69 21 64 8 3 68.1 91.6
2014 16 289 478 60.5 3,369 7.05 19 80 10 3 67.7 86.4
2015 9 144 244 59.0 1,615 6.62 6 76 5 1 46.5 78.5
2016 12 196 331 59.2 2,241 6.77 16 65 4 7 55.5 90.7
Career 69 1,011 1,692 59.8 12,271 7.25 72 80 30 16 --

88.9

 

 

 

 

   
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                   
   
                       
 
   
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                   
   
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                     
 
 

 

 
 
 
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5 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

I'm not talking about this season everyone was saying he was getting cut anyway if that was true that didn't matter anyway

 

I didn't think they'd cut Dorsett because of his guaranteed money, but evidently that's not a major concern for this staff. They're paying Jeff Locke and Sean Spence a total of $2m, and neither of those guys made it to the regular season. Dorsett's $1.2m might not have saved him, either. 

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Just now, Superman said:

 

I didn't think they'd cut Dorsett because of his guaranteed money, but evidently that's not a major concern for this staff. They're paying Jeff Locke and Sean Spence a total of $2m, and neither of those guys made it to the regular season. Dorsett's $1.2m might not have saved him, either. 

That is true

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Just now, Coltsman1788 said:

 

His stats don't support that he stinks or that he is unworthy of a 2nd or 3rd string QB role in today's NFL.  That is the point.  There are much worse QBs out there holding clipboards this year. If he is asking for more money than teams are willing to pay that's one thing but the whole distraction bit like Riker1 says is a worn out excuse.  There are marginal players still in this league who have of done much worse.  Heck Riley Cooper was filmed making a racial slur in 2013 and went on to play that season and a couple more after that without near the backlash that Colin is getting. 

Colin Kaepernick Stats

Regular Season | Postseason

Passing Stats  
SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT
2011 3 3 5 60.0 35 7.00 0 19 0 0 76.4 81.3
2012 13 136 218 62.4 1,814 8.32 10 57 3 2 75.3 98.3
2013   16 243 416 58.4 3,197 7.69 21 64 8 3 68.1 91.6
2014 16 289 478 60.5 3,369 7.05 19 80 10 3 67.7 86.4
2015 9 144 244 59.0 1,615 6.62 6 76 5 1 46.5 78.5
2016 12 196 331 59.2 2,241 6.77 16 65 4 7 55.5 90.7
Career 69 1,011 1,692 59.8 12,271 7.25 72 80 30 16 --

88.9

 

 

 

 

   
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                   
   
                       
 
   
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                   
   
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                     
 
 

 

 
 
 

 

 

Stats stats stats, most QBs worth a lick in todays modern era can put up nice stats at times. 

 

I am not really going to get into a heavy debate though since I am burned out on Kaep to begin with. I am not even sure it largely will even matter either in the end since I have a strong feeling that with Luck or without Luck it probably won't be a great season for us.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

 

His stats don't support that he stinks or that he is unworthy of a 2nd or 3rd string QB role in today's NFL.  That is the point.  There are much worse QBs out there holding clipboards this year. If he is asking for more money than teams are willing to pay that's one thing but the whole distraction bit like Riker1 says is a worn out excuse.  There are marginal players still in this league who have of done much worse.  Heck Riley Cooper was filmed making a racial slur in 2013 and went on to play that season and a couple more after that without near the backlash that Colin is getting. 

 

 

 

ITT: Kap sucks.

Also ITT: Brissett is "a winner."

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

By that logic, Chris Ballard thinks Brissett is much better than Tolzien also. 

 

But that logic is flawed up and down. First, it's based on the notion that Ballard trading for Brissett is necessarily an indication that he doesn't like Morris, and there's no evidence to support that. You can tell me that the coaching staff doesn't like Morris (or something about him, at least), but I don't thing it's a given that the coaching staff's rotations are a reflection of Ballard's viewpoint.

 

Second, Ballard didn't trade Morris for Brissett, and he didn't trade for Brissett and then cut Morris. Using that trade as evidence that Ballard thinks Brissett is better than Morris is, again, lacking. I'm not saying either of these things are untrue, only that you're reading more into this than I am.

 

Third, this is a classic appeal to authority. Even if this trade were proof that Ballard thinks Brissett is better than Morris, that doesn't mean it's true. I don't blame anyone one bit for taking Ballard's word and leaving mine in the trash can, but this is a logical fallacy. Just because Ballard thinks it's true doesn't make it true (if Ballard even actually thinks it's true). 

 

Lastly, I'm still waiting for a sincere opinion from you about what Brissett does better than Morris, besides make Chris Ballard feel all warm and fuzzy. 

 

I'm flabbergasted...   holy cow!

 

In more than five years I've never seen you post like that.    I don't think this post is worthy of you.    It's an argument for arguments sake.     It's hard for me to believe you actually wrote that.

 

I guess we will have to wait and see how 2017 plays out...

 

(sigh...)

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Superman said:
8 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

 

His stats don't support that he stinks or that he is unworthy of a 2nd or 3rd string QB role in today's NFL.  That is the point.  There are much worse QBs out there holding clipboards this year. If he is asking for more money than teams are willing to pay that's one thing but the whole distraction bit like Riker1 says is a worn out excuse.  There are marginal players still in this league who have of done much worse.  Heck Riley Cooper was filmed making a racial slur in 2013 and went on to play that season and a couple more after that without near the backlash that Colin is getting. 

[/quote] ITT: Kap sucks. Also ITT: Brissett is a "winner."

Sorry Supes...what or who is ITT?

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Look I am not an NFL scout and I am not going to pretend to be one.  However, those that are thought enough of Brissett that he was valued to be a third round, and more than the Pats thought that or he wouldn't have been drafted that high.  Morris was not.  Brissett played well enough to start a NFL game last.  Morris hasn't taken a snap in a real game and spent most of the season on the practice squad.  Clearly he wasn't good enough to beat out Andrew Luck, no one expect him to be, but he wasn't good enough to beat out Scott Tolizen, the forum's public whipping boy and at least for two pre-season games even Philip Walker. 

 

From there I really doubt Ballard makes this trade if there wasn't something in Brissett that they liked and they were clearly uncomfortable enough with their current QB situation to feel like they should make this move.  This isn't an off-season move you make to see if it works out in camp and then just cut him.  You don't trade for guys on the eve of the season just to dump another guy who you were going to cut anyways.  I think the Colts have some kind of plans of Brissett down the road. 

 

What makes him better than Morris?  I don't know you would have to get a NFL scout or Chris Ballard to tell you that and I am not them.  Could they be wrong?  Of course, it's all educated guesses in the NFL.  Are they probably in a better position to make a better educated guess than anyone on this forum, even our smartest members?  Yes.  Are those members aloud voice their displeasure with this move or any other move?  Without question. 

 

Just my two cents. 

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm flabbergasted...   holy cow!

 

In more than five years I've never seen you post like that.    I don't think this post is worthy of you.    It's an argument for arguments sake.     It's hard for me to believe you actually wrote that.

 

I guess we will have to wait and see how 2017 plays out...

 

(sigh...)

 

 

SMH

 

It's absolutely not an argument for argument's sake. You're hiding behind the (flawed) logic that, if Ballard traded for Brissett, he MUST absolutely believe Brissett is better than Morris. And you won't even acknowledge all the reasons that logic fails.

 

More to the point, you still won't offer a single thing that Brissett does better than Morris. 

 

And you're acting like I called Brissett trash and said we shouldn't have traded for him. You're completely sensationalizing my viewpoint.

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3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Brissett played well enough to start a NFL game last.

 

Brissett played in that game because of a drastic circumstance. If Tolzien had been hurt in the Steelers game, Morris would have played. He was third string just like Brissett was.

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21 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I never said Brissett played a bad game. Look, this whole angle started because I was told that Brissett is better than Morris because 'he won a regular season game,' and I called that argument bogus. I'm not arguing that Brissett is bad. I asked a straight up question about his ability as a football player, in relation to a player we already have. All I got was 'he's better because he beat the Texans.' 

Your original question was "what's the difference between the 2". Not who is better. The 2 things I listed are valid differences. Look Supe I like Morris, I feel Morris should start over ST but for some reason (or at least through the preseason) the coaching staff isn't giving him the chance to show what he can do vs the 1's or in a regular season game that Luck is out. Yes I would rather have JB over ST. If it takes the Colts trading a WR that isn't being used correctly (if he thrives in NE but some of this is on PD) and bumping a QB that the staff will not give a fair shake, for a backup QB that gives the Colts a better chance to win a game during the regular season (when Luck is out) I'm all for it.

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27 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

 

Stats stats stats, most QBs worth a lick in todays modern era can put up nice stats at times. 

 

I am not really going to get into a heavy debate though since I am burned out on Kaep to begin with. I am not even sure it largely will even matter either in the end since I have a strong feeling that with Luck or without Luck it probably won't be a great season for us.

 

 

Yeah we will just have to agree to disagree on this particular topic Jules.  You're still my girl though. lol

 

I agree that it will be a long season for the Colts this go around.  But there is a light at the end of the tunnel...hopefully.

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Just now, Superman said:

 

Brissett played in that game because of a drastic circumstance. If Tolzien had been hurt in the Steelers game, Morris would have played. He was third string just like Brissett was.

Morris spent most of the season on the practice squad.  Brissett did not, even when the other QBs were healthy because the Pats knew he would get snatched up in a heart beat.  Clearly there is something about him that is valued more than Morris by NFL teams.  What is that?  I don't know you'd have to get a NFL guy to tell you that.  Maybe rick vinturi will shed some light this week.

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5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

SMH

 

It's absolutely not an argument for argument's sake. You're hiding behind the (flawed) logic that, if Ballard traded for Brissett, he MUST absolutely believe Brissett is better than Morris. And you won't even acknowledge all the reasons that logic fails.

 

More to the point, you still won't offer a single thing that Brissett does better than Morris. 

 

And you're acting like I called Brissett trash and said we shouldn't have traded for him. You're completely sensationalizing my viewpoint.

 

This is getting worse for you,  not better.

 

And the only person using flawed logic is you,  not me.

 

The person who is sensationalizing your viewpoint is......   YOU!!

 

I don't have to offer a single analysis of Brissett vs. Morris.      If I said,  I like Brissett doing this or that better,  you could say you'd prefer Morris in those areas.     And then what?     What does that accomplish?      Nothing.

 

Chris Ballard did the analysis and that's what you refuse to acknowledge.     He knows Morris and Tolzein and he prefers Brissett.    He could have used Dorsett as a trade chip for any other position we need help at,   and we need help everywhere!      And yet he used it at quarterback!

 

And you're now making arguments that Brissett could be brought in to utlimately be BEHIND Tolzein or Morris.

 

You really thnk Chris Ballard used a valuable trade chip to acquire a THIRD STRING QUARTERBACK?

 

Dear God,  please say no.........

 

All the logic,  the available information,  is that Ballard sees Brissett as the eventual back-up to Luck.     And you're fighting that with every fiber of your being.     Why?     I don't know.    But it sure smacks of an argument just to argue.      

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