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[Yates] Colts trade Phillip Dorsett for Jacoby Brissett


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12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Seriously?

 

You mean other than the fact that Brissett has started and played well in the NFL regular season and Morris struggled to play with the 1's in the pre-season?!?

 

Other than that there's almost no difference.

 

Come on now.....

 

 

 

He's played in three games, with moderate success, for the best team and best coaching staff in the NFL. They ran a modified offense for him because of his limitations as a passer, which include inaccurate passing, inconsistent mechanics, and a tendency to break the pocket too soon. Morris has the same issues, except he actually stands in the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. 

 

These two guys are so incredibly similar, the main difference is Brissett actually was given a chance to play. Maybe Morris would have crashed and burned if he was given a chance, but on tape, there isn't a lot of difference between them at all. 

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I know nothing about the QB we just got to be honest giving Dorsett, I'm not overly disappointed especially with our offensive playbook, Ballard by the looks of our offseason wants bigger bodies at WR, so he obviously didn't fit in. Dorsett might well go on to be great for the Pats, but he wouldn't be in our scheme, i know with our O-line Slants and quick outs would be great but big bodies might help with that as well with bigger targets to aim at. If this QB gives us a chance to get rid of Tolzien i'd be ok with that cause he really didn't impress me at all. Not a good trade for me, but not a make or break trade for the season so i'd say just run with it 

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39 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

Pretty much out of nowhere huh?

 

Here's a quick profile on Brissett...

 

One of the reasons they drafted him was for "off the charts" intangibles, and a strong endorsement from Bill Parcells, who had done some mentoring with him. Big guy, very strong arm, but he's got sort of a big wind-up and his release could be quicker. He's not a true scrambler (he did have a nice TD run in a game last year though) but has good athletic ability. He started against Houston (win) and Buffalo (shutout loss at Foxboro) in 2016. Much like I'm hearing from you guys about Dorsett, it's possible that he wouldn't have made final cuts in NE. A third QB is a luxury if you're thin at other spots. Overal I like him... not the best accuracy, but plays a smart game. 

 

So Dorsett had fallen out of favor, I take it? Had he missed a lot of games? Any punt return experience while he was a Colt? Sounds like a trade of two guys who might've both been free agents soon.

 

 

Fast WR but never was able to consistently stand out.  GM brought in some competition for him.  Anyone who is saying he wouldn't make the roster is wrongthough.  His salary for this year was fully guaranteed.  But there is a strong chance he would have been buried on thedepth chart.

 

For all his speed herarely got big seperation and he couldn't win very many contested catches.  But with his speed and age, he had potential.

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's played in three games, with moderate success, for the best team and best coaching staff in the NFL. They ran a modified offense for him because of his limitations as a passer, which include inaccurate passing, inconsistent mechanics, and a tendency to break the pocket too soon. Morris has the same issues, except he actually stands in the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. 

 

These two guys are so incredibly similar, the main difference is Brissett actually was given a chance to play. Maybe Morris would have crashed and burned if he was given a chance, but on tape, there isn't a lot of difference between them at all. 


That's what stood out to me in regards to their similarities, very similar weaknesses. And that the Pats had to run a modified, college-like offense for him. I don't think the Colts coaching staff would really succeed in doing that, but who knows.

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's played in three games, with moderate success, for the best team and best coaching staff in the NFL. They ran a modified offense for him because of his limitations as a passer, which include inaccurate passing, inconsistent mechanics, and a tendency to break the pocket too soon. Morris has the same issues, except he actually stands in the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield. 

 

These two guys are so incredibly similar, the main difference is Brissett actually was given a chance to play. Maybe Morris would have crashed and burned if he was given a chance, but on tape, there isn't a lot of difference between them at all. 

 

I think the only two things the two have in common is the obvious....       they're African-American QB's....    other than that,   I don't see the similarities.

 

Sure Morris did fine this pre-season....    mostly against the 2's,  3's and 4's....

 

Brissett started last year for NE when Brady was out and won 27-0.      He just started the 4th preseason game and completely roughly 70 percent of his passes for nearly 400 yards and 4 TD's.

 

I think you hugely over-state Brissett to the downside and hugely overstate Morris to the upside.

 

Look,  I don't think anyone banged the table harder for Dorsett than I did.

 

What I think this trade means is that Luck is likely to miss 3-5 games and Brissett hoefully starts week 1.    But if not week 1,  then he starts week 2, 3,  4 and if need be,  week 5.       Ballard thinks Brissett gives us a better chance to win those games than he does Tolzein and Morris.       And I'm good with that.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think the only two things the two have in common is the obvious....       they're African-American QB's....    other than that,   I don't see the similarities.

 

Sure Morris did fine this pre-season....    mostly against the 2's,  3's and 4's....

 

Brissett started last year for NE when Brady was out and won 27-0.      He just started the 4th preseason game and completely roughly 70 percent of his passes for nearly 400 yards and 4 TD's.

 

I think you hugely over-state Brissett to the downside and hugely overstate Morris to the upside.

 

Look,  I don't think anyone banged the table harder for Dorsett than I did.

 

What I think this trade means is that Luck is likely to miss 3-5 games and Brissett hoefully starts week 1.    But if not week 1,  then he starts week 2, 3,  4 and if need be,  week 5.       Ballard thinks Brissett gives us a better chance to win those games than he does Tolzein and Morris.       And I'm good with that.

 

 

 

Lol.

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think the only two things the two have in common is the obvious....       they're African-American QB's....    other than that,   I don't see the similarities.

 

Sure Morris did fine this pre-season....    mostly against the 2's,  3's and 4's....

 

Brissett started last year for NE when Brady was out and won 27-0.      He just started the 4th preseason game and completely roughly 70 percent of his passes for nearly 400 yards and 4 TD's.

 

I think you hugely over-state Brissett to the downside and hugely overstate Morris to the upside.

 

Look,  I don't think anyone banged the table harder for Dorsett than I did.

 

What I think this trade means is that Luck is likely to miss 3-5 games and Brissett hoefully starts week 1.    But if not week 1,  then he starts week 2, 3,  4 and if need be,  week 5.       Ballard thinks Brissett gives us a better chance to win those games than he does Tolzein and Morris.       And I'm good with that.

 

 

 

While I'm still not sure I like the trade, it's important to note that he hung 27 on the best defense in the NFL on his first start.

 

So I agree I think his weaknesses are being over stated.

 

But I do also worry because Belichick knows how to hide his weaknesses better then any coach.

 

At the same time I see him as an improvement over Tolzien.

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He replaced Garropolo mid-game, which the Pats were leading and eventually won. He started two games, a win against Houston and a loss to Buffalo.  He must be pretty poised.

Puzzling - he led them to a 27-0 win against Houston's D, and then couldn't score a point against Buffalo!

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So we traded a badly used overdrafted but highly talented receiver to a team that maximizes receivers for a bad backup QB from a team who inflates QB's? 

 

lmao I thought we had gotten rid of Grigson.  It's a shame that Lucks career wound up here.  The only good thing from this trade is we didn't spend a draft pick.  So... improved lol.  

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7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think the only two things the two have in common is the obvious....       they're African-American QB's....    other than that,   I don't see the similarities.

 

Sure Morris did fine this pre-season....    mostly against the 2's,  3's and 4's....

 

Brissett started last year for NE when Brady was out and won 27-0.      He just started the 4th preseason game and completely roughly 70 percent of his passes for nearly 400 yards and 4 TD's.

 

I think you hugely over-state Brissett to the downside and hugely overstate Morris to the upside.

 

Look,  I don't think anyone banged the table harder for Dorsett than I did.

 

What I think this trade means is that Luck is likely to miss 3-5 games and Brissett hoefully starts week 1.    But if not week 1,  then he starts week 2, 3,  4 and if need be,  week 5.       Ballard thinks Brissett gives us a better chance to win those games than he does Tolzein and Morris.       And I'm good with that.

 

 

 

In that Houston game he was 11-19 for 103 yards, no picks, no TDs. He didn't win that game, the team did. He was mostly a footnote, at best a testament to Belichick's greatness. The next week they lost 0-16 to the Bills.

 

I don't mind adding him. But I think the Colts mismanaged Dorsett severely from the beginning. He also squandered opportunities. It is what it is, but I don't really think Brissett is clearly better than Morris. 

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11 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

So we traded a badly used overdrafted but highly talented receiver to a team that maximizes receivers for a bad backup QB from a team who inflates QB's? 

 

lmao I thought we had gotten rid of Grigson.  It's a shame that Lucks career wound up here.  The only good thing from this trade is we didn't spend a draft pick.  So... improved lol.  

It's a shame Lucks career wound up here? I thought Grigson had been gotten rid of?  What are you even talking about?

 

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

In that Houston game he was 11-19 for 103 yards, no picks, no TDs. He didn't win that game, the team did. He was mostly a footnote, at best a testament to Belichick's greatness. The next week they lost 0-16 to the Bills.

 

I don't mind adding him. But I think the Colts mismanaged Dorsett severely from the beginning. He also squandered opportunities. It is what it is, but I don't really think Brissett is clearly better than Morris. 

 

I agree with you about Dorsett.      And I fear we will come to regrete trading him.

 

But we didn't trade Dorsett for a draft pick, which I assume we could've gotten.    That doesn't seem unreasonable to think Dorsett might've gotten the Colts a 4 or a 5.       So, if we're trading him for a QB,  then I think it says that Luck won't be ready for a while and they'll go with Brissett as soon as they can get him up to speed.      

 

I don't see us trading for JB just to make him our back-up in 2018 as I've seen writtten here today.

 

Brissett is going to start as soon as we can get him ready to.      Nothing else makes sense to me.....

 

 

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People were willing to trade him for a mid-to-late rounder.  What's the difference in trading him for a pick or QB depth?  We need QB depth, and Brissett, as a backup, is about what you would get for that pick.

 

Obviously, the problem is he was traded to New England, and people fear Belichick will get something out of him.  In the end, it's probably a throw away trade, though, and won't matter either way.

 

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10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

In that Houston game he was 11-19 for 103 yards, no picks, no TDs. He didn't win that game, the team did. He was mostly a footnote, at best a testament to Belichick's greatness. The next week they lost 0-16 to the Bills.

 

I don't mind adding him. But I think the Colts mismanaged Dorsett severely from the beginning. He also squandered opportunities. It is what it is, but I don't really think Brissett is clearly better than Morris. 

It could be something as simple as Ballard getting something for Dorsett instead of just cutting him?

We did need a back up QB and maybe Ballard thought he would be an upgrade in that department?

I just have a feeling Dorsett will shine with the Pats.

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2 hours ago, Flash7 said:

He's a product of the NE system, like Cassel, Mallet, etc. He will most likely suck once he's here.

 

Only a sucker would trade for a NE QB, as history has shown. I guess Ballard is not a student of history.

 

Brisset isn't a product of anything. He was up & down while with the Pats. The lone game he won for the Pats was thanks to a bunch of special teams fumbles from Houston in their own territory, plus a big game from Blount. After that, the Pats got shut out at home to the Bills, with him at QB. And when he took over for Garoppolo vs the Dolphins, Miami almost came back from 24-0 because the offense couldn't do anything.

 

He's a young QB, drafted high with some upside and some question marks. Just like many other backup QBs in the league. This whole thing about the "Pats system" is always nonsense. I wonder what people would be saying if Derek Carr fell a few more spots to the Pats instead of Garoppolo.

 

As for other QBs.... Cassel was a Pro Bowl QB in Kansas City.

 

Mallett never looked very good for the Pats at all. 

 

And if anything, Hoyer looked his best as a Cleveland Brown and briefly as a Bear. Besides, when they were both in Houston, they ran a near-identical offense as New England.

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It's a shame Lucks career wound up here? I thought Grigson had been gotten rid of?  What are you even talking about?

 

 

...do I have to spell it out for you?

 

It's a shame because Luck has been given nothing but impromptu GMs who make the dumbest decisions when under pressure. 

 

This is literally the exact same thing Grigson would do except he would give up a ton of draft picks instead of a talented player.  Thus why I said I guess a small improvement since I'd rather have Dorsett traded away than draft picks, even if both are foolish.

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1 minute ago, Surge89 said:

 

...do I have to spell it out for you?

 

It's a shame because Luck has been given nothing but impromptu GMs who make the dumbest decisions when under pressure. 

 

This is literally the exact same thing Grigson would do except he would give up a ton of draft picks instead of a talented player.  Thus why I said I guess a small improvement since I'd rather have Dorsett traded away than draft picks, even if both are foolish.

Spell it out for me too because nothing you wrote here makes much sense

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6 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

...do I have to spell it out for you?

 

It's a shame because Luck has been given nothing but impromptu GMs who make the dumbest decisions when under pressure. 

 

This is literally the exact same thing Grigson would do except he would give up a ton of draft picks instead of a talented player.  Thus why I said I guess a small improvement since I'd rather have Dorsett traded away than draft picks, even if both are foolish.

For you to call Ballard impromptu is way too pre mature. You have no clue if Dorsett was even going to make this team. Ballard may have had plans to cut him. He filled a position that was needed.

Did I spell it out good enough for you?

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19 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

While I'm still not sure I like the trade, it's important to note that he hung 27 on the best defense in the NFL on his first start.

 

So I agree I think his weaknesses are being over stated.

 

But I do also worry because Belichick knows how to hide his weaknesses better then any coach.

 

At the same time I see him as an improvement over Tolzien.

Except he didnt it was the rest of the team that won that game and got shut out by the bills the following week

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7 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Except he didnt it was the rest of the team that won that game and got shut out by the bills the following week

We can't go with what happened in pre season because there are so many variables in those games. I did watch Brissett play his last game and was impressed by his athletic ability. He is raw but IMO has potential.

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While I never liked Dorsett, I was always of the opinion he could have been better utilized.  I think this was a bad trade.  Dorsett had some potential and some talent, but the coaching staff just couldn't figure it out with him.  He wasn't the next Antonio Brown, but he's worth more than Brissett.  New England now has too many pass catchers.  No way they can feed everyone the ball.

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

We can't go with what happened in pre season because there are so many variables in those games. I did watch Brissett play his last game and was impressed by his athletic ability. He is raw but IMO has potential.

Im going by his two starts from last year. One they shutout texans and he threw 0 tds the other he got shut out by bills throwing 0 tds. The rams front is good not sure if he can make the right throws against them. The throws Morris made versus steelers are the type you need to beat the rams. Great throws while getting clobbered

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I am against any trade that makes the pats better. I really hope Ballard comes out of this one looking smart, but history has shown otherwise. Remember how little he got Moss for, and the fans of every team shaking their heads. We have traded two starters to the pats in one off-season. Ballard is either very ballsy or a plant by the pats. Lol joking but still if it Allen and Dorsett play well, I will be fairly upset. I would rather them be released and signed to the pats. Why would we help them???

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

For you to call Ballard impromptu is way too pre mature. You have no clue if Dorsett was even going to make this team. Ballard may have had plans to cut him. He filled a position that was needed.

Did I spell it out good enough for you?

 

Let's play your game.  Let's say Dorsett was to be cut.  Your telling me that Dorsett was the 6th talented receiver on the roster?   I'd question that talent evaluation regardless of draft position. 

 

Your also telling me that this GM would rather trade for a 3rd stringer than take someone like Osweiller for free?  Lol again question that as well. 

 

Also this GM would be saying that Jacoby is so much more talented that what is already on the roster that he'd weaken an already underperforming position to get him? Yep I'd question that talent evaluation also. Because Jacoby couldn't play in an NFL level offense in NE that they had to cater to his talent level with a collegiate style offense.  At least our current QBs performed in pro style offenses that were inherently flawed.

 

So no. You didn't spell anything you just raised a bunch of legitimate questions regarding Ballard's ability to do his job. 

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6 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

...do I have to spell it out for you?

 

It's a shame because Luck has been given nothing but impromptu GMs who make the dumbest decisions when under pressure. 

 

This is literally the exact same thing Grigson would do except he would give up a ton of draft picks instead of a talented player.  Thus why I said I guess a small improvement since I'd rather have Dorsett traded away than draft picks, even if both are foolish.

I have no idea where this coming from and I even liked Dorsett but he wasn't in our plans and was probably going to be cut anyway. We have TY, Moncrief, Rogers so we will be fine + big Jack. At least we got a QB that can fill in for a game or 2 that played great in the Pre-season.

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7 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Let's play your game.  Let's say Dorsett was to be cut.  Your telling me that Dorsett was the 6th talented receiver on the roster?   I'd question that talent evaluation regardless of draft position. 

 

Your also telling me that this GM would rather trade for a 3rd stringer than take someone like Osweiller for free?  Lol again question that as well. 

 

Also this GM would be saying that Jacoby is so much more talented that what is already on the roster that he'd weaken an already underperforming position to get him? Yep I'd question that talent evaluation also. Because Jacoby couldn't play in an NFL level offense in NE that they had to cater to his talent level with a collegiate style offense.  At least our current QBs performed in pro style offenses that were inherently flawed.

 

So no. You didn't spell anything you just raised a bunch of legitimate questions regarding Ballard's ability to do his job. 

The second you brought Osweiller into the mix it voided your comment.

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I don't care if Dorsett was going to be cut anyway, I would not have traded him to the Pats. Not only that... if I knew they wanted him I would have traded him to any other team even if it was for a player I was going to immediately cut just to keep the Pats from having a chance to get him. 

 

This is a stupid trade for the Colts and BB is going to make Ballard and Pagano look stupid when he uses Dorsett properly to take advantage of his skills. 

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2 hours ago, MTC said:

Not a fan of Jacoby Brissett. Although, he's better than Tolzien. So, there's that.

This is only JB's 2nd year. Last year, he beat the Texans 27-0. He lost to the Bills the next week 16-0 with a broken finger on his throwing hand. He's still learning the position, but most of us Patriots' fans thought he would be Brady's backup next year. He can pull the ball down and run, but he'd rather pass. 

 

He's the best QB on your roster not named Luck. You'll be happy with him.

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1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I would rather gamble on a new QB with athletic abilities over a failed QB any day.

 

Lol might as well get RG3 then.  Jacoby couldn't throw accurate enough to be in a pro style offense.  Let that sink in lol.

 

Also add to it that NE has had a reputation for years of making QBs look better than what they are and I'd say you are a fool to draft for any backup NE QB when you could just get one for free and had actual NFL experience not NE experience. Lol

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