This whole Brady at 40 thing.....

[Jules]

Yes I am starting a Patriots thread. So yell at me. And also thank me because Pats threads usually get good. Apparently the media has been going nuts too I seen on Brady's 40th birthday. Including the Patriots having a GOAT petting zoo for his birthday celebration, OK.......

 

Anyway a lot is being made of this Brady turning 40 thing. I don't think a QB instantly declines over night due to becoming one year older. But, history does not favor 40 year old QBs to get to a SB or win it. In fact, no QB at age 40 has ever started a Super Bowl.

 

We all saw Favre come soooo close back in 2009 and almost played our Colts. And Favre had a monster season in 2009.

 

We saw Hasselbeck shine filling in for Luck at age 40 but then his body slowly broke down that season.

 

And I know Brady has the special fancy organic diet and program.

 

Do you think the Patriots again defy logic and Brady is starting in the next Super Bowl yet again. Or will another AFC team like say the Steelers or someone else jump in and ruin the repeat dream?

 

Also keep in mind Jimmy G could honestly become a great fill in for Tom Brady too and maybe just take off where Brady left off.

 

Brady missing the first 4 games last year as well also arguably helped keep him fresh.

[Dark Superman]

The Patriots are still the clear favorite to win it all..

The Raiders look good on paper, but can they beat the Patriots?

The Patriots look better on paper this year compared to last season.

Brady will probably play until he's 50 only because I hate him so much..

[ReMeDy]

The difference is they have Belichick. Tom Brady is a system QB, proven by their 3rd string QB winning them a game and Matt Cassel going 11-5. Yes, that's right, feed me your anger. Let it swell inside you.

[buffalo34]

That's odd, I thought the GOAT's birthday was March 24...

 

Yes, there are two sports birthdays I know. That guy and Manny Ramirez.

[BloodyChamp]

The difference is Bill but that doesn't shoot down what Jules said. I could play til 50 if he were my coach, I'm sure Brady could to lol!

[2006Coltsbestever]

I say Tommy has 2 or 3 years in him, JMO. As an early prediction I have them winning the SB again unfortunately and going 13-3. If they stay healthy, Pittsburgh isn't beating that team, either is Oakland or KC. Oakland doesn't have the Defense and KC doesn't have the QB play to get it done.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, buffalo34 said:

That's odd, I thought the GOAT's birthday was March 24...

 

Yes, there are two sports birthdays I know. That guy and Manny Ramirez.

Peyton

[southwest1]

7 hours ago, Jules said:

Yes I am starting a Patriots thread. So yell at me. And also thank me because Pats threads usually get good. Apparently the media has been going nuts too I seen on Brady's 40th birthday. Including the Patriots having a GOAT petting zoo for his birthday celebration, OK.......

 

Anyway a lot is being made of this Brady turning 40 thing. I don't think a QB instantly declines over night due to becoming one year older. But, history does not favor 40 year old QBs to get to a SB or win it. In fact, no QB at age 40 has ever started a Super Bowl.

 

We all saw Favre come soooo close back in 2009 and almost played our Colts. And Favre had a monster season in 2009.

 

We saw Hasselbeck shine filling in for Luck at age 40 but then his body slowly broke down that season.

 

And I know Brady has the special fancy organic diet and program.

 

Do you think the Patriots again defy logic and Brady is starting in the next Super Bowl yet again. Or will another AFC team like say the Steelers or someone else jump in and ruin the repeat dream?

 

Also keep in mind Jimmy G could honestly become a great fill in for Tom Brady too and maybe just take off where Brady left off.

 

Brady missing the first 4 games last year as well also arguably helped keep him fresh.

That's the first time I've ever been encouraged or instructed to emphatically chew somebody out before as a personal request Jules.  I get where you're coming from. It just made me chuckle. Yeah, I agree the media is going bananas over Brady's mysterious flexibility plan & golden child cook book etc. etc. Gronk even claims that his franchise QB tips are helping him stay loose, limber, & less injure prone this season. 

 

There is a ton of speculation that this may be Brady's last yr in NE & that Mr. G will be handed the QB reins shortly thereafter. If Tom wins yet another ring, this dynamic among field generals could become fascinating. Is Bill ready to go in a new direction or will Kraft put his foot down & demand Brady remains in Boston after this calendar yr? Decisions; decisions...

3 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

The difference is they have Belichick. Tom Brady is a system QB, proven by their 3rd string QB winning them a game and Matt Cassel going 11-5. Yes, that's right, feed me your anger. Let it swell inside you.

Embracing hostility are we? First, Jules tells me to yell at her & now RMDY wants me to let Patriot animosity to fester & spread. Football is definitely right around the corner. That much is abundantly clear. 

[Chrisaaron1023]

I'm still salty from the super bowl.. I'll say this.. the NBA got so much backlash because we knew the two teams in the Finals.. well in the NFL we already knows who's getting the trophy. Nobody can compete with the Patriots. The offense just too quick, and the defense which was good last year as well got better too. Injuries don't really matter either since the pats also apparently teach "next man up" the best. 

 

Yeah he'll probably play 5 more seasons. Lets all just hope it's not all with the Patriots

[BloodyChamp]

The Patriots could be took out if there was a coach or 2 somewhere who wasn't so dang egotistical. Bill Belichik would have Brady in a tutu doing cartwheels if he caught on to any hunch that it would work. Meanwhile all these other coaches are still trying to force their ideas down their own team's throats and it's killing them. Jay Gruden won't run the ball, Bruce Arians will but only after 2 or 3 other skill players get hurt, etc and I won't name all the examples who didn't survive this long. Bill has no ego. That's the basic thing that makes him a good coach, as backwards as it sounds at first.

[footballhero1]

 

21 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

The difference is they have Belichick. Tom Brady is a system QB, proven by their 3rd string QB winning them a game and Matt Cassel going 11-5. Yes, that's right, feed me your anger. Let it swell inside you.

A system QB doesn't go 16-0. A system QB doesn't become the first player to throw for 50 TD's in a single season. A system QB doesn't go to 12 pro bowls, win 2 MVP's, 2 OPOY and isn't voted Super Bowl MVP 4 times. A system QB doesn't lead the league in TD's in 4 separate seasons and yards in 2 seasons. A system QB doesn't win 5 Super Bowls, maybe with an all time great defense they can win 1, Brady's had really good defenses, never an all time great defense. A system QB doesn't have the 3rd highest passer rating of all time and isn't top 5 in most stats. 

 

Cassel took a 16 win team and made them an 11 win team. Brady averages more than 11 wins a season over his career. 

 

Not trying to start a fight, but if Brady is a system QB everyone is. In fact, compared to most QB's, Brady's been forced into more offensive systems than most HOF talent QB's.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

When the organization cheats and the qb only dinks & dunks, a qb can play into his 60's.

And let's not forget about opposing coaches and OC's conveniently getting brain-cramps in the biggest games at the most inopportune times.

.... Yeah he can play at 40 lol.

[bluebombers87]

2 hours ago, footballhero1 said:

 

A system QB doesn't go 16-0. A system QB doesn't become the first player to throw for 50 TD's in a single season. A system QB doesn't go to 12 pro bowls, win 2 MVP's, 2 OPOY and isn't voted Super Bowl MVP 4 times. A system QB doesn't lead the league in TD's in 4 separate seasons and yards in 2 seasons. A system QB doesn't win 5 Super Bowls, maybe with an all time great defense they can win 1, Brady's had really good defenses, never an all time great defense. A system QB doesn't have the 3rd highest passer rating of all time and isn't top 5 in most stats. 

 

Cassel took a 16 win team and made them an 11 win team. Brady averages more than 11 wins a season over his career. 

 

Not trying to start a fight, but if Brady is a system QB everyone is. In fact, compared to most QB's, Brady's been forced into more offensive systems than most HOF talent QB's.

A system QB can go 16-0 if his coach is BB. A system QB can throw for 50 TDs if his coach is BB and he has Randy Moss. A system QB can win all of those accolades if his coach is BB and wins a lot of games and is a household name. A system QB can win 5 SBs if his coach is BB and has above average to good defenses. A system QB can have the 3rd highest QB rating if he has BB and dunks and dunks his way to the HOF.

 

Or Cassel took a 11 win team to an 11 win season. Considering The Pats only went 16-0 (before being humiliated in the SB) once, hard to imagine it happening again; especially when Brady averaged 11-12 wins per year.

 

And you can say whatever you want about offensive schemes, he's had BB his entire career. I highly doubt there is much change in philosophy in offensive schemes with the same HC around.

 

BTW Manning has bested all but 2 of your little factoids about Brady with multiple HCs and without the solid defenses Bradys benefited from.

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

A system QB can go 16-0 if his coach is BB. A system QB can throw for 50 TDs if his coach is BB and he has Randy Moss. A system QB can win all of those accolades if his coach is BB and wins a lot of games and is a household name. A system QB can win 5 SBs if his coach is BB and has above average to good defenses. A system QB can have the 3rd highest QB rating if he has BB and dunks and dunks his way to the HOF.

 

Or Cassel took a 11 win team to an 11 win season. Considering The Pats only went 16-0 (before being humiliated in the SB) once, hard to imagine it happening again; especially when Brady averaged 11-12 wins per year.

 

And you can say whatever you want about offensive schemes, he's had BB his entire career. I highly doubt there is much change in philosophy in offensive schemes with the same HC around.

 

BTW Manning has bested all but 2 of your little factoids about Brady with multiple HCs and without the solid defenses Bradys benefited from.

Yeah actually the Defenses Brady had in 2003 and 2004 are statistically better than any Defense Peyton ever had. They even gave up less points per game than the 2015 Broncos.

[footballhero1]

14 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

A system QB can go 16-0 if his coach is BB. A system QB can throw for 50 TDs if his coach is BB and he has Randy Moss. A system QB can win all of those accolades if his coach is BB and wins a lot of games and is a household name. A system QB can win 5 SBs if his coach is BB and has above average to good defenses. A system QB can have the 3rd highest QB rating if he has BB and dunks and dunks his way to the HOF.

 

Or Cassel took a 11 win team to an 11 win season. Considering The Pats only went 16-0 (before being humiliated in the SB) once, hard to imagine it happening again; especially when Brady averaged 11-12 wins per year.

 

And you can say whatever you want about offensive schemes, he's had BB his entire career. I highly doubt there is much change in philosophy in offensive schemes with the same HC around.

 

BTW Manning has bested all but 2 of your little factoids about Brady with multiple HCs and without the solid defenses Bradys benefited from.

No there isn't a system QB in history that can go 16-0 regardless of coach. I can name 3 or 4 games just off hand that season that were more about Brady playing excellent and either pulling out something out of nowhere or just playing flawlessly that wouldn't have been won without his play, and I blame Belichick's gameplan for their only loss more than I blame Brady. Something supported by Belichick apologizing to his team for letting them down after the game. For the record Belichick never had better than an 11-5 record with a QB other than Brady. He only has one playoff win with a QB other than Brady. He averages more than 11 wins (including 16-0 and multiple 14-2, 12-4 records) and holds the record for most playoff wins as a head coach with Brady. And it's not like he has a small sample size minus Brady. He has 7 full seasons. One season was with a number one overall draft pick who was considered one of the better QB's of the 90's. So no it's not just Belichick. 

 

As somebody who watched both Brady and Manning extensively, I can just say you are very wrong about scheme changes. Manning's actual offensive schemes changes less going from the Colts to the Broncos than Brady's did from his 03-04 teams to the 07 team which was a more high powered length based offense with a strong slot option, to the TE set that changed how people use TE's in the early 2010's to the current offense they use now. Belichick isn't an offensive coach. He's defensive. Brady and McDaniels (and Weiss earlier) are a lot more pivotal in the offense than many give them credit for. Peyton had a lot more control over his offense, but he also kept himself in the same scheme over his career as a result, Brady adapted more. Manning's scheme didn't really change until Kubiak took more control in his final season, and while it was more a physical issue, that different system played a small part in his decline because he wasn't used to playing the way Kubiak wanted. 

 

To your last point, yeah he did, but if your going to play * for tat with Brady's accomplishments because of his coach the tradeoff is dismissing Peyton's accomplishments because of him playing with the best receiving casts over his career of any QB in history. Brady's stats would be very different too if he had Harrison and Wayne most of his career and then got the stacked offense Elway built out in Denver. So it's give and take. 

 

But then we'll both just end up taking away all of their accomplishments 

[footballhero1]

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah actually the Defenses Brady had in 2003 and 2004 are statistically better than any Defense Peyton ever had. They even gave up less points per game than the 2015 Broncos.

Brady generally had better defenses but Peyton did have some really strong defenses. Yes 2015 Broncos didn't have give up less ppg, but they didn't have an offense controlling the game and TOP as much as the 03-04 Patriots offense did. I think the 2004 playoff game between both teams had just as much to do with the offense controlling the clock as it did the defense shutting the Colts down. 

[BloodyChamp]

Forget stats. Anybody whose ever watched football knows the 2015 Broncos defense carried a bigger load to the SB than any defense ever had, besides maybe the 85 Bears...maybe.

 

That's a knock on Brady not Peyton. Peyton getting drug to a SB was proof that we knew what we were talking about when we said it about Brady. Meanwhile if the homers want to act like Peyton's 2nd ring kind of doesn't count because of the defense, then neither does Idk how many of Brady's. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

Forget stats. Anybody whose ever watched football knows the 2015 Broncos defense carried a bigger load to the SB than any defense ever had, besides maybe the 85 Bears...maybe.

 

That's a knock on Brady not Peyton. Peyton getting drug to a SB was proof that we knew what we were talking about when we said it about Brady. Meanwhile if the homers want to act like Peyton's 2nd ring kind of doesn't count because of the defense, then neither does Idk how many of Brady's. 

I really don't disagree with anything said here, just wanted to point out statistically the 2003 and 2004 Pats gave up less points than the 2015 Broncos. I would include the 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs as a Defense carrying a team to the SB as well.

[The Peytonator]

Holy crap I didn't realize dude was 40 now!

 

After this year, if he still plays like he did last year, I could see the evil empire trading him and rolling with Jimmy. I'm not sure Bill and Bob would do him like that, but from a business perspective it would be smart. Jimmy's got potential and they could get a high draft pick. 

[Jules]

Brady turns 40 and somehow we get into Brady vs. Manning yet again? I mean if you want to I am not holding you all back, feel free, It's an "open thread".

 

I know most expect the Pats to repeat and believe me I want to pick them too. But it's tough to repeat.......especially in the NFL. Pats are the clear faves and I don't know who else to pick in the AFC but to me thats the beauty of the NFL too and the parity. You just don't know who is going to go on some huge tear......

 

A few teams will shock us this year.

[footballhero1]

35 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

Forget stats. Anybody whose ever watched football knows the 2015 Broncos defense carried a bigger load to the SB than any defense ever had, besides maybe the 85 Bears...maybe.

 

That's a knock on Brady not Peyton. Peyton getting drug to a SB was proof that we knew what we were talking about when we said it about Brady. Meanwhile if the homers want to act like Peyton's 2nd ring kind of doesn't count because of the defense, then neither does Idk how many of Brady's. 

2001 is the only one you could kind of argue if you want, but he turned a 5-11 season around to 11-5 (going 11-3 when he actually played) because he masked a lot of Bledsoe's flaws in regards to pocket presence and taking care of the ball, they were very lucky that year and he was more of a high level game manager but he played clutch when he needed to. 

 

2003-2004 Brady was easily a top 5 QB and equally as important as the defense. The defense was very strong, but not an all time great defense like the 00 Ravens, 02 Bucs, 13 Seahawks, and 15 Broncos. They just weren't at that level and Brady carried more than his weight in beating some very good teams along the way. The Super Bowl against the Panthers doesn't happen if Brady doesn't play lights out in one of the best shootouts in league history. Brady was also a stud in 2004. He wasn't getting carried either year. He had help from a strong balanced team, but you remove him from the equation and they aren't winning either Super Bowl. 

 

2014 and 2016, the defenses were strong, but Brady was more important. He played lights out after the Kansas City game and pretty much all of 2016 and his 4th quarter stats in the Super Bowl to tie and then break the record for largest comebacks were as good as it gets in that situation. 

 

So 2001 is the only one you can really split hairs over, and I would preface that with, the Patriots had a franchise QB that year, and you'd be hard pressed to find many who believe they had greater odds to win the Super Bowl with that franchise number 1 draft pick QB over Brady in 2001. Brady's skill set was much better than Bledsoe's slinger mentality for getting that team across the finish line. And for the record, the 01 Patriots did not have a juggernaut defense. They had a group of guys that were all executing extremely well and were a precursor to what they became a couple years later, but having a reliable QB who was cool and made plays on big moments without risk was a significant contribution to getting one that early.

 

Theres really nothing applicable to the 2015 Broncos. That was a lot closer to the 2000 Ravens where you had a stagnant offense with a couple of playmakers like Sharpe who were good for a play or two a game being carried by a hard nose defense who needed to grind out every game. There really wasn't a Patriots team that needed to overcompensate for the offense as much as those two teams did. 

 

 

[BloodyChamp]

They were that era's No Name Defense. The 72 Dolphins played with 2 quarterbacks to, which everybody forgets. Neither was a slouch or a rookie but take the defense away and they wouldn't have done jack.

[2006Coltsbestever]

22 minutes ago, Jules said:

Brady turns 40 and somehow we get into Brady vs. Manning yet again? I mean if you want to I am not holding you all back, feel free, It's an "open thread".

 

I know most expect the Pats to repeat and believe me I want to pick them too. But it's tough to repeat.......especially in the NFL. Pats are the clear faves and I don't know who else to pick in the AFC but to me thats the beauty of the NFL too and the parity. You just don't know who is going to go on some huge tear......

 

A few teams will shock us this year.

It always turns into Brady vs Manning, been like that in Chat for 15 years. As of now my pick is the Pats to Repeat.

[Jules]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It always turns into Brady vs Manning, been like that in Chat for 15 years. As of now my pick is the Pats to Repeat.

 

They are the favorites for sure. I just am 50/50 on the Pats right now at this point in time.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jules said:

 

They are the favorites for sure. I just am 50/50 on the Pats right now at this point in time.

I know it's tough to Repeat, it is in most sports. Cubs may not Repeat for example because the Dodgers are having an historic season and are loaded, Cavs didn't because the Warriors put together an historic team. Pats are a full fledge dynasty though with the best QB and best Coach + a solid/sound Defense. I just cant see anyone beating them as of now. I don't trust the Raiders - Defense has many flaws, KC = QB flaws, Steelers - never beat them and matchup terribly vs them. Colts - who knows if we will even win the Division??

[footballhero1]

5 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

They were that era's No Name Defense. The 72 Dolphins played with 2 quarterbacks to, which everybody forgets. Neither was a slouch or a rookie but take the defense away and they wouldn't have done jack.

No but Griese was a stud and they played a lot better with him than without him and they had some close calls without him. He was a HOF caliber talent 

 

My overall point was the 03 and 04 seasons were an equal offensive and defensive effort. The offense did not have premium skill players outside of Dillion, but you never worried that the defense needed to carry them or make up for them. If it was just the defense, well the defense crapped the bed against the Panthers in the Super Bowl, the offense made up the difference. 

[footballhero1]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It always turns into Brady vs Manning, been like that in Chat for 15 years. As of now my pick is the Pats to Repeat.

 

Its the Magic vs Bird of the NFL. Great time to be a fan. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, footballhero1 said:

 

Its the Magic vs Bird of the NFL. Great time to be a fan. 

I wish Manning was still playing. I miss those matchups eventhough he was on Denver at the end. Magic/Bird was awesome!

[BloodyChamp]

6 minutes ago, footballhero1 said:

No but Griese was a stud and they played a lot better with him than without him and they had some close calls without him. He was a HOF caliber talent 

 

My overall point was the 03 and 04 seasons were an equal offensive and defensive effort. The offense did not have premium skill players outside of Dillion, but you never worried that the defense needed to carry them or make up for them. If it was just the defense, well the defense crapped the bed against the Panthers in the Super Bowl, the offense made up the difference. 

 

No but yeah but they went 17-0.

 

Not every Pats game was a blowout either. Meanwhile Bill wasn't the coach and all but he was in the room when Bledsoe, Simms and Hoss took his team to SBs if you get my drift. That doesn't tell all and end all but it's hardly that many coincidences either.

[NannyMcafee]

The media will make Brady GOD before it's all said and done. The first king of America? Why not. Maybe we can cheat our way to a better economy. 

[footballhero1]

15 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

No but yeah but they went 17-0.

 

Not every Pats game was a blowout either. Meanwhile Bill wasn't the coach and all but he was in the room when Bledsoe, Simms and Hoss took his team to SBs if you get my drift. That doesn't tell all and end all but it's hardly that many coincidences either.

He had arguably the best defensive player in the history of the sport during his time on the Giants and was under another Hall of Fame head coach in a different era. Yes he was crucial to that team, he is crucial to the Patriots, however it's not a one man show. His head coaching career changed when he found Brady and he was fortunate to have the structure Kraft gave him. For all of Irsay's faults, he spent his time with Manning investing in talent on offense, later on defense, and Dungy as a coach who could put the puzzle together. Neither was a one man show either. Their greatest successes came with the contributions of others. 

 

He was never high on Bledsoe and there was already talk of Brady possibly taking over for him in training camp well before he actually did. Bledsoe for what it's worth did have his moments and was one of the better QB's of the 90's. He was however not a complete QB. He was like a poor man's Favre without the instincts. He had a ceiling. 

[BloodyChamp]

O good gorsh so Bill was carried to 5 I mean 7 rings and it wasn't because of the defense but then it was because of the defense all the way down to 1 player the other time which means he was still carried ok smh

[bluebombers87]

5 hours ago, footballhero1 said:

No there isn't a system QB in history that can go 16-0 regardless of coach. I can name 3 or 4 games just off hand that season that were more about Brady playing excellent and either pulling out something out of nowhere or just playing flawlessly that wouldn't have been won without his play, and I blame Belichick's gameplan for their only loss more than I blame Brady. Something supported by Belichick apologizing to his team for letting them down after the game. For the record Belichick never had better than an 11-5 record with a QB other than Brady. He only has one playoff win with a QB other than Brady. He averages more than 11 wins (including 16-0 and multiple 14-2, 12-4 records) and holds the record for most playoff wins as a head coach with Brady. And it's not like he has a small sample size minus Brady. He has 7 full seasons. One season was with a number one overall draft pick who was considered one of the better QB's of the 90's. So no it's not just Belichick. 

 

As somebody who watched both Brady and Manning extensively, I can just say you are very wrong about scheme changes. Manning's actual offensive schemes changes less going from the Colts to the Broncos than Brady's did from his 03-04 teams to the 07 team which was a more high powered length based offense with a strong slot option, to the TE set that changed how people use TE's in the early 2010's to the current offense they use now. Belichick isn't an offensive coach. He's defensive. Brady and McDaniels (and Weiss earlier) are a lot more pivotal in the offense than many give them credit for. Peyton had a lot more control over his offense, but he also kept himself in the same scheme over his career as a result, Brady adapted more. Manning's scheme didn't really change until Kubiak took more control in his final season, and while it was more a physical issue, that different system played a small part in his decline because he wasn't used to playing the way Kubiak wanted. 

 

To your last point, yeah he did, but if your going to play * for tat with Brady's accomplishments because of his coach the tradeoff is dismissing Peyton's accomplishments because of him playing with the best receiving casts over his career of any QB in history. Brady's stats would be very different too if he had Harrison and Wayne most of his career and then got the stacked offense Elway built out in Denver. So it's give and take. 

 

But then we'll both just end up taking away all of their accomplishments 

There is a system QB who has done that. It's Tom Brady. For what it's worth, Brady is great. But to deny he would be as good without Belichick (or even close) is wrong. How many of BB's seasons before Brady did he have the amount of control he had in NE? 

 

So Manning never utilized the slot receiver like Brady did? He never utilized a 2 TE attack like Brady did? No check down receivers? Huh, so I guess Brandon Stokely, Ben Utecht and Dallas Clark just had minor roles in the offense? Could've sworn they were big contributors but you said Manning just had one scheme. In all seriousness Manning did everything under the sun in terms of schemes. Brady didn't innovate those and neither did Manning. And yes Manning did have control over his offense. Brady had others to help him. Tom Moore has said multiple times that Manning was the on field O coordinator. Manning had multiple schemes to rely on. He didn't pigeon hole himself like brady did. So really manning was more adaptable.

 

And if Manning had Moss like Brady did, he would've scored 65+ TDs by throwing up Hail Marys and having Moss go get them like Brady did. No real skill there.

[Jules]

55 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know it's tough to Repeat, it is in most sports. Cubs may not Repeat for example because the Dodgers are having an historic season and are loaded, Cavs didn't because the Warriors put together an historic team. Pats are a full fledge dynasty though with the best QB and best Coach + a solid/sound Defense. I just cant see anyone beating them as of now. I don't trust the Raiders - Defense has many flaws, KC = QB flaws, Steelers - never beat them and matchup terribly vs them. Colts - who knows if we will even win the Division??

 

Steelers might be my pick right now for the AFC if they stay healthy. Ben has already threatened retirement too (which I don't even buy right now) so that might give them a boost. I despise the Steelers possibly more then any other team in the league, so I hope they don't do it.  But we always have had the Manning/Brady/Big Ben pattern in the AFC too so this would be the final year that pattern could hold true due to Manning retiring.

 

In the NFC right now I got my eye on the Packers and Giants. If NE does get back we could even get the trilogy IMO of Pats/Giants for the finale. Either Brady gets revenge or he goes out with a SB loss.

 

As for the NBA, I think it's easier to repeat or lose the finals and go back a year later and win it all. One player going to one team can change the entire NBA, players like Lebron/Durant are once in a generation talents.

[Jules]

Personally I think the GOAT thing is being overdone with Brady. It can be a jinx, Pats brought in um real goats and they got shirts etc.

 

[footballhero1]

13 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

O good gorsh so Bill was carried to 5 I mean 7 rings and it wasn't because of the defense but then it was because of the defense all the way down to 1 player the other time which means he was still carried ok smh

 

He was a head coach for 7 seasons. His best record was 11-5 twice and one playoff win. Add Brady and he wins 5 Super Bowls, averages more wins a season than he ever has done in a single season without him, and has the record for most playoff wins. There's no comparison with and without Brady, you have to ignore the entire sample size and flat out single out 1 season and 4 games out of 7, where even that comparison falls flat when you actually put the smaller bit of scrutiny to it. 

 

As far as the Giants

 

-wasn't the coach

-played under a HOF head coach

-had the most trancedent defensive talent in history on his defense 

[footballhero1]

10 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

There is a system QB who has done that. It's Tom Brady. For what it's worth, Brady is great. But to deny he would be as good without Belichick (or even close) is wrong. How many of BB's seasons before Brady did he have the amount of control he had in NE? 

 

So Manning never utilized the slot receiver like Brady did? He never utilized a 2 TE attack like Brady did? No check down receivers? Huh, so I guess Brandon Stokely, Ben Utecht and Dallas Clark just had minor roles in the offense? Could've sworn they were big contributors but you said Manning just had one scheme. In all seriousness Manning did everything under the sun in terms of schemes. Brady didn't innovate those and neither did Manning. And yes Manning did have control over his offense. Brady had others to help him. Tom Moore has said multiple times that Manning was the on field O coordinator. Manning had multiple schemes to rely on. He didn't pigeon hole himself like brady did. So really manning was more adaptable.

 

And if Manning had Moss like Brady did, he would've scored 65+ TDs by throwing up Hail Marys and having Moss go get them like Brady did. No real skill there.

And if you took Harrison and Wayne away from Manning and gave them to Brady he'd have the better career stats. Brady only had Moss for two  full seasons. Do you how many years Brady's number 1 receiver wouldn't be better than Manning's number 2? 

[bluebombers87]

36 minutes ago, footballhero1 said:

And if you took Harrison and Wayne away from Manning and gave them to Brady he'd have the better career stats. Brady only had Moss for two  full seasons. Do you how many years Brady's number 1 receiver wouldn't be better than Manning's number 2? 

I can nullify that argument with Pierre Garçon, Austin Collie, and Blair White. All players that outside of Indy and Manning did nothing even remotely close to what they did in Indy.

 

And those two full seasons, was one of them the only year Brady broke any offensive records of note?

 

EDIT - added "of note"

[2006Coltsbestever]

51 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

Steelers might be my pick right now for the AFC if they stay healthy. Ben has already threatened retirement too (which I don't even buy right now) so that might give them a boost. I despise the Steelers possibly more then any other team in the league, so I hope they don't do it.  But we always have had the Manning/Brady/Big Ben pattern in the AFC too so this would be the final year that pattern could hold true due to Manning retiring.

 

In the NFC right now I got my eye on the Packers and Giants. If NE does get back we could even get the trilogy IMO of Pats/Giants for the finale. Either Brady gets revenge or he goes out with a SB loss.

 

As for the NBA, I think it's easier to repeat or lose the finals and go back a year later and win it all. One player going to one team can change the entire NBA, players like Lebron/Durant are once in a generation talents.

I pick Green Bay a lot to either win the SB or the Conference and get burned too much. I am thinking Dallas in the NFC since Dak will be in year 2. I knew Dallas wasn't doing it last season, no rookie QB's ever win it or go to the SB.

[2006Coltsbestever]

45 minutes ago, footballhero1 said:

And if you took Harrison and Wayne away from Manning and gave them to Brady he'd have the better career stats. Brady only had Moss for two  full seasons. Do you how many years Brady's number 1 receiver wouldn't be better than Manning's number 2? 

I honesty think Peyton or Tom could win with pretty much any Offense. I would've gave up Wayne or Harrison for a better Defense. Not both WR's but one of them. Peyton still would've been awesome with just Harrison or Wayne/Clark/Stokley back from 2003-2007 for example if his Defense was better. With the better Defense we may have won 1 or 2 more SB's.