Why I'm beefing with the Colts passing offense -- Part 2

[RollerColt]

Someone get Supes a direct line to Ballard. This man should be consulting! 

 

Great analysis. This thread summarizes our 2016 campaign, as well as the last couple of years, for the Colt's offense. 

[coltsfeva]

Speaking of 4th and 1..  the league success rate is 84% on QB sneaks. The Pats? 93%. Hmmm..  with Kelly and Mewhort (and a healthy Luck) I'd like to see a little more of it. 

[Crunked]

Although I have no empirical data to back this up, I would say in general terms that Luck began to trust in Chester Rogers more as the season progressed. As Rogers basically became the Moncrief safety valve for when TY was not open. Dorsett, has not won the trust of Luck on anything other than outrunning the opponent to the end zone type situations (which he rarely does-strange for a guy with Flash speed)  Having said all of that, I have never really gotten the sense that we play call to our strengths on offense, but rather are always calling plays to to fit a pre determined "this is what we game planned to work" it sometimes seems whether the game plan is valid or not adjustment comes as a concession not an observation, and some times its too late to save the game from the gaff.

[GoColtsWin]

The effort that went into your post is astounding. Why I come here Supe! Keep em' coming!

[crazycolt1]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 9:17 AM, ColtsBlitz said:

Also, screen passes with an experienced MLB like Cushing most likely covering the RB was another reason it was stupid on 4th and 1. Just run a quick pass, rollout pass, pitch play, etc. Screens on short distance are *ic since the one catching is already behind the line of scrimmage. On top of that, the defense is planning on a short pass, so they are either going to blitz up the middle or man up. I really hope we can beat the Texans because tbh, I'm tired of losing to them. 

The Colts record against the Texans is 23-7. I would think it would be a Texan fan who would be tired of losing to the Colts TBH. 

[Dark Superman]

Superman will be the Colts HC in 2018.

 

You heard it here first!

[CoachLite]

On 6/28/2017 at 11:18 AM, Superman said:

 

 

And Luck showed great awareness on Gore's big catch and run against TN, not forcing it downfield but dumping it off to Gore with no one around him. But one of the things that made that play work and allowed Luck the time to come back down to Gore is that the pass rush couldn't take off to the QB, due to the gimmicky nature of the play. We don't have to call trick plays to slow the pass rush down, but some bootlegs and rollouts would have a similar effect, and we don't call those often enough for my liking. Of course, that's more of a Kubiak thing, which Luck would be a great fit for (he's more like Elway than Manning, IMO). 

 

Where I think we're lacking is in identifying coverages presnap (or recognizing defensive trends and calling plays to counter them) and adjusting a hot route to make sure the QB has a quick outlet if he needs it, or as a drive starter (4 yards on 1st and 10 in that Houston game would have been tremendous; same thing on the Raiders drive that started deep in Colts territory). 

 

Even potentially great quarterbacks need competent coaching. Is this indicative of a lack of confidence in the team by the coaching staff?

[Superman]

2 hours ago, CoachLite said:

 

Even potentially great quarterbacks need competent coaching. Is this indicative of a lack of confidence in the team by the coaching staff?

 

I think it's more indicative of too much of a load being placed on Luck's shoulders. He's a star QB who has shown he can carry an offense, and from Day 1, they've done little to make the game easier for him. As a rookie, he was one of the best deep ball QBs in the league, one of the best on third and long, and this is with an awful OL and no real threat of a running game. It's like they know he's capable of greatness, so they require him to be great, rather than making life easier for him with a more efficient offensive attack.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, LuckyHooker24 said:

Superman will be the Colts HC in 2018.

 

You heard it here first!

 

You know how people say 'it can't get any worse than Pagano!' Yeah, well, trust me, it can...

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 6/27/2017 at 3:21 PM, Superman said:

 

No, they aren't all on the OC. Two of those plays are on Luck, as receivers came open but didn't get the ball (Dorsett on 1st down, Doyle on 3rd down).

 

But what Luck does on the field is at least partly a reflection of coaching. And even though Luck missed an open receiver on 1st down, I still hate the "route" the left side receiver is running, and our outside receivers do that a lot. It's a glaring example of a lack of hot routes in our passing game, especially against off coverage. (Both outside receivers did the same thing on 3rd down; this is Chud's play call out of the two minute warning.) The open man on 1st down was at best the third progression, so if pressure is coming, you might not even get there; meanwhile, the left side receiver is running directly toward the defender, then just turns around in front of him. This isn't a route, and it doesn't belong in our offense. 

 

Agreed, It is on both the coaching and players recognizing and/or executing.  Game plans are stripped down section of the playbook designed specifically for the current opponent.  There is not enough time (especially in pads) to run reps of the whole playbook, and you are only going to be good at what you practice.  Hopefully, the game plan taken from the playbook each week is the plays the team runs very well (IE: screens seem to be an issue), those (in regards to down and distance) that the opposing team does not do as well at, and the best are combinations of both.  But the other team also game plans against you and your tendencies as well, and at times you just have to be better than the guy in front of you.  If you can't, or are not often enough, you lose. There's no way to always run plays the defense isn't aware of or does not know how to adjust to and defend.

 

As to the bolded part above, that route you describe is certainly NOT a route, and I would bet it is not in the playbook. (I wonder if it was addressed the next Monday at the team film recap session?)  The only routes a receiver runs from that are a curl ( button hook: a 135° turn in and back toward the QB) or a comeback, another 135° turn but toward the sideline.  Not doing either is a pick in the making, or an off target throw that direction.  Was the receiver not coached in how to run that route, or was he lazy, (maybe not the primary receiver, etc...) I'm not sure that needed to be addressed in game if any coach saw that.  the reminders on Monday in the game film recap.

 

I've seen receivers go in to the middle of the field and 'sit down' in an open area of a zone D scheme, but never a wideout on the outside.  That's plain laziness in running a pattern, IME.

[Luck is Good]

Great breakdown of those atrocious plays. The play calling has to be exponentially better. I still think that's the biggest problem when it comes to the offense. I know Andrew makes bad decisions at times but the play calling just isn't good enough

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think it's more indicative of too much of a load being placed on Luck's shoulders. He's a star QB who has shown he can carry an offense, and from Day 1, they've done little to make the game easier for him. As a rookie, he was one of the best deep ball QBs in the league, one of the best on third and long, and this is with an awful OL and no real threat of a running game. It's like they know he's capable of greatness, so they require him to be great, rather than making life easier for him with a more efficient offensive attack.

 

I'd like to ask a qustion or two that I don't think has been addressed here in this thread...

 

And I don't mean to set-off some fireworks on the day before the 4th of July.....

 

But.....

 

All these examples of plays that you don't like....     where is Luck in all of this?      Why can't he walk up to the lline of scrimmage,  see what the defense is showing an audible-OUT of what we're planning and into a play that should be more successful.

 

I'd sure be curious as to just how much/little Luck actually audibles plays at the line.....     he was known for that at Stanford.      But I do't read hardly a thing about it in his first 5 years with the Colts.    Don't know if it's just a well kept secrett,  or if Luck is just too deferential to his coaches....?

 

Your thoughts?

 

[Superman]

7 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

As to the bolded part above, that route you describe is certainly NOT a route, and I would bet it is not in the playbook. (I wonder if it was addressed the next Monday at the team film recap session?)  The only routes a receiver runs from that are a curl ( button hook: a 135° turn in and back toward the QB) or a comeback, another 135° turn but toward the sideline.  Not doing either is a pick in the making, or an off target throw that direction.  Was the receiver not coached in how to run that route, or was he lazy, (maybe not the primary receiver, etc...) I'm not sure that needed to be addressed in game if any coach saw that.  the reminders on Monday in the game film recap.

 

I've seen receivers go in to the middle of the field and 'sit down' in an open area of a zone D scheme, but never a wideout on the outside.  That's plain laziness in running a pattern, IME.

 

Maybe, but I've seen this a lot over the past three years. I'll find more as I do more breakdowns. I think someone saw something with the receivers, which led to the coaching change. Maybe this will improve moving forward. That would be awesome. 

[Malakai432]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd like to ask a qustion or two that I don't think has been addressed here in this thread...

 

And I don't mean to set-off some fireworks on the day before the 4th of July.....

 

But.....

 

All these examples of plays that you don't like....     where is Luck in all of this?      Why can't he walk up to the lline of scrimmage,  see what the defense is showing an audible-OUT of what we're planning and into a play that should be more successful.

 

I'd sure be curious as to just how much/little Luck actually audibles plays at the line.....     he was known for that at Stanford.      But I do't read hardly a thing about it in his first 5 years with the Colts.    Don't know if it's just a well kept secrett,  or if Luck is just too deferential to his coaches....?

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

Same here and we've all seen him do it with some success when he does over the years.  I'm not sure of the magnitude he audibles though.  I'm really surprised he didn't last year seeing Allen on Clowney, BUT perhaps Allen thought he could block Clowney????  I would've really like to see Luck audible that call.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

34 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Maybe, but I've seen this a lot over the past three years. I'll find more as I do more breakdowns. I think someone saw something with the receivers, which led to the coaching change. Maybe this will improve moving forward. That would be awesome. 

 

I hope Sanjay Lal is able to correct a lot of receiver 'issues'.  As before, that particular route has to be a Hitch or Curl (same thing, different distance) or a Comeback.  The Comeback can be one of the hardest passes to defend, or an easy pick 6 if the receiver is lazy (doesn't sell the DB that it's a fade/Go route) and just stops and turns around.  and i hope Brian Schottenheimer makes more progress with A. Luck in their 2nd year together as well.

[Lawrence Owen]

There are soooo many armchair QB's in the world.  And as they say "20/20 vision in retrospect." No knock on you @Superman , you put forth quality in depth analysis into your reasoning's.  

The real problem is in the professional world, you'd think hindsight would truly be 20/20.  But how often do we, (fans/analyst's, ect) Keep pointing out the exact  same issues week after week, year after year, And yet the coaching staff just don't seem to get it?  I know we're not in their shoes, and the majority have never been.  But it seems when you've been in a situation multiple times, and you're success rate is leaving yourself wanting, you'd try something different instead of keep doing the same-old/same-old.

Sometimes these "blinders" that Pagano preaches about should be opened just enough to see some peripheral.

[Superman]

20 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd like to ask a qustion or two that I don't think has been addressed here in this thread...

 

And I don't mean to set-off some fireworks on the day before the 4th of July.....

 

But.....

 

All these examples of plays that you don't like....     where is Luck in all of this?      Why can't he walk up to the lline of scrimmage,  see what the defense is showing an audible-OUT of what we're planning and into a play that should be more successful.

 

I'd sure be curious as to just how much/little Luck actually audibles plays at the line.....     he was known for that at Stanford.      But I do't read hardly a thing about it in his first 5 years with the Colts.    Don't know if it's just a well kept secrett,  or if Luck is just too deferential to his coaches....?

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

I don't know the answer. It seems like Luck has some freedom at the line, but he doesn't make obvious changes to the play very often. I want to look at some of the games where the Colts went no-huddle early in the game to see if there's any differences in the plays being run, since I assume those are the plays where Luck has more input. Even if those sequences are scripted, I would think Luck is still a big part of putting together the script. 

 

In all, though, they're coaching him in this scheme that's known for being aggressive and vertical, so his approach as a passer is going to be influenced by that coaching.

[CoachLite]

On 7/3/2017 at 9:28 AM, Superman said:

 

I think it's more indicative of too much of a load being placed on Luck's shoulders. He's a star QB who has shown he can carry an offense, and from Day 1, they've done little to make the game easier for him. As a rookie, he was one of the best deep ball QBs in the league, one of the best on third and long, and this is with an awful OL and no real threat of a running game. It's like they know he's capable of greatness, so they require him to be great, rather than making life easier for him with a more efficient offensive attack.

 That's the trap, isn't it? But  Andrew Luck plays into that trap by taking on the "super hero" role. Like asking someone to always give 110%, it simply can't be done. The subtle brilliance of Bill Belichick is "do your job". Even that is impossible when you're trying (usually too hard) to cover for others who aren't doing theirs.

 

Can this be corrected? Yes, Will this be corrected? That remains to be seen (soon I hope).