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UndecidedFrog

The Decline And Retirement Age Of Great Nfl Qbs

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From other discussions I have had with forum members, an interesting subject arose regarding the age of NFL QBs and their retirement. Much was said about how we cannot compare PM to average QBs, and that a 4xMVP lasts longer than other QBs. So off I went in search of articles that identified historical great QBs and the respective age when they have or should have retired for the good of their teams.

I came across this fascinating article by Dan Watson written about a year ago:

Source: http://www.neontommy.com/news/2011/01/peyton-mannings-best-days-have-passed-him

Manning in Decline: Peyton's best days are now behind him

by Dan Watson

January 12, 2011

-At age 36, Dan Marino saw his decline. His quarterback rating dropped to 80.7, his touchdowns plummeted to 17, and only in his rookie year did he produce fewer passing yards in a full season. He lasted two more seasons before retirement.

- Joe Montana's career may as well have ended at 35. His numbers plummeted in 1990 — just a year removed from one of the finest seasons ever put together by a QB (26 TDs and 8 INT in just 13 games with a 112.4 QB rating in 1989).

He played in one final game in San Francisco at age 36 before ending his career in mediocre fashion in Kansas City (two seasons, 29 combined touchdown passes).

- Troy Aikman’s demise occurred so abruptly at age 34 that he retired after tossing just 7 touchdowns against 14 interceptions in 2000.

- Terry Bradshaw threw in the towel at 35, after two injury plagued seasons.

- Johnny Unitas, whose longevity in the league is well-documented -- he played 17 seasons from 1956 to 1973 -- began to break down at 35. He only played in five games that year and didn’t start a single one. His play never recovered as he sludged through four more mediocre seasons with Baltimore before doing the unthinkable, leaving to sputter out in San Diego.

- Fran Tarkenton's decline came at 37 -- in 1977 he only played in nine games. He ended things the next season.

- Even Steve Young, who in essence got a late start after waiting for Montana to break down, had his last hurrah at age 37 before the concussions got to him.

The examples are endless: Joe Namath (34), Bart Starr (36), Roger Staubach (37), Jim Kelly (36), Otto Graham (34), Dan Fouts (36, dropped off at 35), Sammy Baugh (dropped off at 36 and fizzled until the end at 38), Len Dawson (dropped off at 34), Bob Griese (35) — it goes on and on.

At 34, George Blanda threw 36 touchdowns. At age 35, he threw 42 interceptions, the most ever in a season.

It is the natural course taken by almost all the greats — father time chimes in around age 35 or 36.

There are a few legendary quarterbacks who have had continued success past age 35, but they can be counted on one hand: Warren Moon, John Elway, Kurt Warner (late start) and Brett Favre.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the Colts currently have various options at QB, I thought this article would be relevant and timely.

Peyton Manning will be 36, if he plays in the upcoming 2012 season.

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It's time to move on. I very much doubt Peyton will ever make it back to his usual level but if he does that is great. The only way I see him staying here is if he would sign with the Colts for way less money than he would get somewhere else.(that is assuming he can play) I think the Colts need to plan for their long term future now and start with a young QB. I know it's not the popular decision but neither was moving Joe Montana out of SF. It's the right decision.

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From other discussions I have had with forum members, an interesting subject arose regarding the age of NFL QBs and their retirement. Much was said about how we cannot compare PM to average QBs, and that a 4xMVP lasts longer than other QBs. So off I went in search of articles that identified historical great QBs and the respective age when they have or should have retired for the good of their teams.

I came across this fascinating article by Dan Watson written about a year ago:

Source: http://www.neontommy...have-passed-him

Manning in Decline: Peyton's best days are now behind him

by Dan Watson

January 12, 2011

-At age 36, Dan Marino saw his decline. His quarterback rating dropped to 80.7, his touchdowns plummeted to 17, and only in his rookie year did he produce fewer passing yards in a full season. He lasted two more seasons before retirement.

- Joe Montana's career may as well have ended at 35. His numbers plummeted in 1990 — just a year removed from one of the finest seasons ever put together by a QB (26 TDs and 8 INT in just 13 games with a 112.4 QB rating in 1989).

He played in one final game in San Francisco at age 36 before ending his career in mediocre fashion in Kansas City (two seasons, 29 combined touchdown passes).

- Troy Aikman’s demise occurred so abruptly at age 34 that he retired after tossing just 7 touchdowns against 14 interceptions in 2000.

- Terry Bradshaw threw in the towel at 35, after two injury plagued seasons.

- Johnny Unitas, whose longevity in the league is well-documented -- he played 17 seasons from 1956 to 1973 -- began to break down at 35. He only played in five games that year and didn’t start a single one. His play never recovered as he sludged through four more mediocre seasons with Baltimore before doing the unthinkable, leaving to sputter out in San Diego.

- Fran Tarkenton's decline came at 37 -- in 1977 he only played in nine games. He ended things the next season.

- Even Steve Young, who in essence got a late start after waiting for Montana to break down, had his last hurrah at age 37 before the concussions got to him.

The examples are endless: Joe Namath (34), Bart Starr (36), Roger Staubach (37), Jim Kelly (36), Otto Graham (34), Dan Fouts (36, dropped off at 35), Sammy Baugh (dropped off at 36 and fizzled until the end at 38), Len Dawson (dropped off at 34), Bob Griese (35) — it goes on and on.

At 34, George Blanda threw 36 touchdowns. At age 35, he threw 42 interceptions, the most ever in a season.

It is the natural course taken by almost all the greats — father time chimes in around age 35 or 36.

There are a few legendary quarterbacks who have had continued success past age 35, but they can be counted on one hand: Warren Moon, John Elway, Kurt Warner (late start) and Brett Favre.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the Colts currently have various options at QB, I thought this article would be relevant and timely.

Peyton Manning will be 36, if he plays in the upcoming 2012 season.

thanks, good article

It will be interesting to see how much longer QB's will be playing since they are pretty much wearing a red-shirt in the games now. For example, Namath, did anyone see that HBO special on him? wow those were some brutal hits he took. You don't see QB's getting hit like that now days. It will be interesting to see if that age of decline goes up with the new rules for QB's and safety priority.

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thanks, good article

It will be interesting to see how much longer QB's will be playing since they are pretty much wearing a red-shirt in the games now. For example, Namath, did anyone see that HBO special on him? wow those were some brutal hits he took. You don't see QB's getting hit like that now days. It will be interesting to see if that age of decline goes up with the new rules for QB's and safety priority.

My thinking also...I believe with will extend it by a significant amount of time

But I guess one could argue the players are a lot bigger and faster these days and it only takes one hit to end a career.

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Yeah, but how many of those guys on that list were getting hit pretty regularly and that's why their bodies declined around 35. It's pretty well documented that Peyton is extremely good at avoiding the big hit. How many times have you seen him get blindsided?! My point is that Peyton is on another level of QBing in this new age of football, and after a year off I'm sure he's ready to knock the rust off...

...and yes, he'll be wearing the horseshoe whle he does it.

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I havent seen a decline in Peytons number since his rookie year. If he does return to the Colts with the same weapons hes had in previous years i dont see his numbers dropping significantly. I expect 28-33 TD'S 14 INT'S. Even if his arm is not as strong as it once was in previous years due to nerves etc., his brain should make up for that.

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PM is one to be counted on the one hand. He has taken extreme measures since day one in the NFL to protect his longevity. Without the recent surgeries, I believe his arm strength would have lasted another five years. With successful nerve regeneration that could still be the case.

But let there be no doubt. This is the best opportunity to prepare for future after Manning.

That being said IF(& please note the IF) the arm strength returns, PM is still the surest quickest path to the super bowl.

To retire a Colt, Peyton must be cut, and a new contract that allows for both him and a #1 pick under the cap.

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It appears that everything is indicating that we are at the end of Manning's career, or at the least, the point where we will see a significant decline, yet, everyone is still making excuses for him. Yes, he was the greatest ever and played in a way where he did his best to avoid hits, but let's not forget that he missed the 2011 season due to an injury that he incurred while playing.

The hit that he took against the Redskins is the cause of all of the nerve issues. It was an on the field hit that caused him to have 3 surgeries, yet, people claim that he does such a good job of avoiding injuries and hits.

Also, please note that qbs like Montana, Marino, Aikman, and Bradshaw also had the heart and desire to want to play. It's not just Peyton that has this incredible will to play. They all did, and that's prt of what made them great. I heard in an earlier post that Manning's desire will allow him to push through this. I hope so, but the odds show clearly that age catches up with everyone.

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I havent seen a decline in Peytons number since his rookie year. If he does return to the Colts with the same weapons hes had in previous years i dont see his numbers dropping significantly. I expect 28-33 TD'S 14 INT'S. Even if his arm is not as strong as it once was in previous years due to nerves etc., his brain should make up for that.

You should click on the source article to read the stats of PM's last season he played.

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Great article Frog. Time is the ultimate equalizer for us all! While I don't think Manning risks any more injury than any other player, I do have concerns about the productivity. It's only natural for play to diminish with age. The thing about it is that NONE of those QBs mentioned had nerve damage that caused numbness and lack of tricep strength in their throwing arm. I've heard many people, fans and "experts", alike say that Manning at 80-90% is still better than most QBs in the league. I tend to agree with them, but if he's unable to make all of the throws (especially anything deep) it gives the opposing D a great advantage over us.

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It appears that everything is indicating that we are at the end of Manning's career......

I'e only seen 1 indicator, the nerve damage, and it's affects are yet to be determined.

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The statistical data on other great QBs and their decline in their mid 30's is a great indicator, is it not? Now couple that with missing a season, and 3 neck surgeries, and a lack of arm strength/recovering arm strength. These are fairly good indicators as well.

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The statistical data on other great QBs and their decline in their mid 30's is a great indicator, is it not? Now couple that with missing a season, and 3 neck surgeries, and a lack of arm strength/recovering arm strength. These are fairly good indicators as well.

A year off may extend a career and we do not have any verifiable information on arm strength. Also we're talking about a different game that Peyton plays in as compared to the players from the 70's 80's 90's and even the early 2000's, not exactly apples to oranges but not apples and apples either.

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A year off may extend a career and we do not have any verifiable information on arm strength.

Very true, but if Irsay said money isn't the issue, and Manning's doctors have signed off on the neck fusion, then the only issue preventing the bonus from being paid is the nerve regeneration which directly effects his arm strength. While nobody has put a percentage on it, etc it must be at such a level that it concerns Irsay that Manning might not ever return to form. At least at this date it's too early to know.

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it's too early to know.

Sums it up, and when you're talking about arguably the greatest ever and the true definition of "franchise player" you do everything in your power to keep him on your roster.

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A year off may extend a career and we do not have any verifiable information on arm strength. Also we're talking about a different game that Peyton plays in as compared to the players from the 70's 80's 90's and even the early 2000's, not exactly apples to oranges but not apples and apples either.
I'm sorry, but the game isn't that different than it was before. They are not wearing dresses out there and playing touch football (sarcasm). Look at all of the teams and their QBs. You will see a high percentage of QBs missed games or have played through several injuries this season. QBs are still getting hit, just now by bigger and faster players.

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You should click on the source article to read the stats of PM's last season he played.

A bad year for Peyton Manning is still an above average year for a 2nd tier QB correct me if ia am wrong...So in 2010 4,700 yds 33TD's 17 INT'S AND 66 percent completion is a decline to you? Especially in a year of major injuries at the WR position where Blair White and Reggie Wayne were the only ones not injured.

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A bad year for Peyton Manning is still an above average year for a 2nd tier QB correct me if ia am wrong...So in 2010 4,700 yds 33TD's 17 INT'S AND 66 percent completion is a decline to you? Especially in a year of major injuries at the WR position where Blair White and Reggie Wayne were the only ones not injured.

I quote from the source article:

For a stretch of games we saw something, by its very nature, un-Manning. For five games he was simply terrible.

In Week 9, versus the Eagles, he made his 200th consecutive regular season start — something entirely Manning-like. What wasn’t was the interception with six seconds remaining as the Colts vied for field goal position to win the game. They lost.

In Week 10, he threw for 185 yards and no TDs.

In Week 11, again while trying to lead the Colts to a game-winning rally, Peyton was intercepted, his third of the game. Even worse, it came against New England.

In Week 12, he was picked off four times.

In Week 13, another four.

It was inconceivable. For Manning, inexcusable.

In Manning fashion, he bounced back on Thursday Night Football with a huge game.

But the first cracks had shown.

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I'm sorry, but the game isn't that different than it was before for. They are not wearing dresses out there and playing touch football. Look at all of the teams and their QBs. You will see a high percentage of QBs missed games or have played through several injuries this season. QBs are still getting hit, just now by bigger and faster players.

They are not getting driven into the ground today and rarely if ever below the knees or in the head. What were the physical issues of the players when their effectiveness began to decline, is what you have to ask when comparing today's elite to yesterday's. You also have to look at how many hits and in some cases mobility. Tarkenton's body is obviously going to wear quicker than a pocket passer's. Again, not apples to oranges but not exactly apples to apples.

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From other discussions I have had with forum members, an interesting subject arose regarding the age of NFL QBs and their retirement. Much was said about how we cannot compare PM to average QBs, and that a 4xMVP lasts longer than other QBs. So off I went in search of articles that identified historical great QBs and the respective age when they have or should have retired for the good of their teams.

I came across this fascinating article by Dan Watson written about a year ago:

Source: http://www.neontommy...have-passed-him

Manning in Decline: Peyton's best days are now behind him

by Dan Watson

January 12, 2011

-At age 36, Dan Marino saw his decline. His quarterback rating dropped to 80.7, his touchdowns plummeted to 17, and only in his rookie year did he produce fewer passing yards in a full season. He lasted two more seasons before retirement.

- Joe Montana's career may as well have ended at 35. His numbers plummeted in 1990 — just a year removed from one of the finest seasons ever put together by a QB (26 TDs and 8 INT in just 13 games with a 112.4 QB rating in 1989).

He played in one final game in San Francisco at age 36 before ending his career in mediocre fashion in Kansas City (two seasons, 29 combined touchdown passes).

- Troy Aikman’s demise occurred so abruptly at age 34 that he retired after tossing just 7 touchdowns against 14 interceptions in 2000.

- Terry Bradshaw threw in the towel at 35, after two injury plagued seasons.

- Johnny Unitas, whose longevity in the league is well-documented -- he played 17 seasons from 1956 to 1973 -- began to break down at 35. He only played in five games that year and didn’t start a single one. His play never recovered as he sludged through four more mediocre seasons with Baltimore before doing the unthinkable, leaving to sputter out in San Diego.

- Fran Tarkenton's decline came at 37 -- in 1977 he only played in nine games. He ended things the next season.

- Even Steve Young, who in essence got a late start after waiting for Montana to break down, had his last hurrah at age 37 before the concussions got to him.

The examples are endless: Joe Namath (34), Bart Starr (36), Roger Staubach (37), Jim Kelly (36), Otto Graham (34), Dan Fouts (36, dropped off at 35), Sammy Baugh (dropped off at 36 and fizzled until the end at 38), Len Dawson (dropped off at 34), Bob Griese (35) — it goes on and on.

At 34, George Blanda threw 36 touchdowns. At age 35, he threw 42 interceptions, the most ever in a season.

It is the natural course taken by almost all the greats — father time chimes in around age 35 or 36.

There are a few legendary quarterbacks who have had continued success past age 35, but they can be counted on one hand: Warren Moon, John Elway, Kurt Warner (late start) and Brett Favre.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the Colts currently have various options at QB, I thought this article would be relevant and timely.

Peyton Manning will be 36, if he plays in the upcoming 2012 season.

so from your studying project your saying manning is done? about time someone found the evidence that supported my answer when i said let him walk he will start his decline. gotta say though good job in finding it, prob took you awhile to find it.

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Yeah, but how many of those guys on that list were getting hit pretty regularly and that's why their bodies declined around 35. It's pretty well documented that Peyton is extremely good at avoiding the big hit. How many times have you seen him get blindsided?! My point is that Peyton is on another level of QBing in this new age of football, and after a year off I'm sure he's ready to knock the rust off...

...and yes, he'll be wearing the horseshoe whle he does it.

how do you know he will be wearing the horseshoe? are you in the FO with irsay and the GM? do you sit in on their talks and listen to conversations about what is going to happen with manning? are you irsays brain? if you answered no to all of these then you know nothing.

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so from your studying project your saying manning is done? about time someone found the evidence that supported my answer when i said let him walk he will start his decline. gotta say though good job in finding it, prob took you awhile to find it.

I do not have a crystal ball.

However, from the research I have done, I find that:

1) the statistics show the age at which franchise QBs (defined as 10+yrs starters) start to decline in performance is at age 30-31. http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/5211-statistical-studies-on-ageperformance-of-nfl-qbs/

2) there is adequate evidence that shows that great QBs either retired or should have retired at around the age of 35-36.

(This thread).

From this information, I conclude that retaining PM represents a high risk to the Colts organization if they expect continued high performance at the QB position. And this conclusion is without regard to the neck injury, the surgeries and its sequelae.

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Wercolts, I think that we see things differently and that's perfectly fine. That's the beauty of the forum. We can express our thoughts freely and share with others how we see things.

I would like to point out that I am a huge Manning fan, and do not have anything against him, or an agenda.

Like you, I am trying my best to be objective. When given data, I review it and formulate an opinion. Here is what I see:

1. Although we do do not have data that specifically relates to Manning's exact situation, the set of data that is provided is probably the closest that we can find to how it would relate to Manning. It clearly shows that there is a decline with numerous other high performing QB's in their mid 30's. I tend to think that time is just and has no favorites, and therefore will treat Manning the same.

2. I do not think that the game has changed that much. In essence, it's still very much the same. The hit that Manning took during the Redskins game is the reason for his 3 neck surgeries is proof that he is subject to injuries, in this era of football.

3. Every player has a date when they will retire. It is also conceivable that player's productivity can decline over time. If I were to ask you if a player, (not named Manning, but just an unknown player) had played at a high level, then had 3 neck surgeries and is now feeling the effects of the surgeries in lack of arm strength, didn't play for a year due to related health issues, and is turning 36 years old, would you think he will return better than before, as good as before, or will he be on a decline? I think that most people would answer that they would think he would be on a decline.

That's how I see the situation. Please note that this is to clarify my point of view and not to be arguementative.

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.

From this information, I conclude that retaining PM represents a high risk to the Colts organization if they expect continued high performance at the QB position. And this conclusion is without regard to the neck injury, the surgeries and its sequelae.

and without regards to the risk/what he has meant to the Colts ratio, which can only be set by Jim Irsay.

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and without regards to the risk/what he has meant to the Colts ratio, which can only be set by Jim Irsay.

Yes, I admit that I am not Jim Irsay. And I agree that only Jim Irsay will decide how the Colts will proceed with PM.

Yes, I do not factor in anything about what sentimental feelings PM may generate for fans or what similar feelings he may elicit from the team. I don't factor this in, because it is irrelevant to on-field performance.

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Wercolts, I think that we see things differently and that's perfectly fine. That's the beauty of the forum. We can express our thoughts freely and share with others how we see things.

I would like to point out that I am a huge Manning fan, and do not have anything against him, or an agenda.

Like you, I am trying my best to be objective. When given data, I review it and formulate an opinion. Here is what I see:

1. Although we do do not have data that specifically relates to Manning's exact situation, the set of data that is provided is probably the closest that we can find to how it would relate to Manning. It clearly shows that there is a decline with numerous other high performing QB's in their mid 30's. I tend to think that time is just and has no favorites, and therefore will treat Manning the same.

2. I do not think that the game has changed that much. In essence, it's still very much the same. The hit that Manning took during the Redskins game is the reason for his 3 neck surgeries is proof that he is subject to injuries, in this era of football.

3. Every player has a date when they will retire. It is also conceivable that player's productivity can decline over time. If I were to ask you if a player, (not named Manning, but just an unknown player) had played at a high level, then had 3 neck surgeries and is now feeling the effects of the surgeries in lack of arm strength, didn't play for a year due to related health issues, and is turning 36 years old, would you think he will return better than before, as good as before, or will he be on a decline? I think that most people would answer that they would think he would be on a decline.

That's how I see the situation. Please note that this is to clarify my point of view and not to be arguementative.

We don't really see things that differently, and contrary to what I'm sure a lot of people reading my posts think, I am not some over the top for Manning fan. If he had the same stats but acted like Rivers or made the kind of mistakes Vick had, I would not like him at all. I actually don't subscribe to a my favorite player mentality, just a my favorite team mentality. That being said it just seems like far too many people are too quick to brush aside how much Peyton has done for this team and the entire NFL for that matter. I also think that a lot of the talk of him being done, or the Colts needing to move on is an underestimation of his abilities. Loyalty is all to often undervalued and overlooked when considering how well an organization is run. Doing what's right has lost it's way in so many parts of society, and I'd love the Colts to stand apart and step forward as a leader with convictions and strong moral principles.

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Yes, I admit that I am not Jim Irsay. And I agree that only Jim Irsay will decide how the Colts will proceed with PM.

Yes, I do not factor in anything about what sentimental feelings PM may generate for fans or what similar feelings he may elicit from the team. I don't factor this in, because it is irrelevant to on-field performance.

and I'd hope you agree that on field performance should not be the only consideration determining how to move forward

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I quote from the source article:

For a stretch of games we saw something, by its very nature, un-Manning. For five games he was simply terrible.

In Week 9, versus the Eagles, he made his 200th consecutive regular season start — something entirely Manning-like. What wasn’t was the interception with six seconds remaining as the Colts vied for field goal position to win the game. They lost.

In Week 10, he threw for 185 yards and no TDs.

In Week 11, again while trying to lead the Colts to a game-winning rally, Peyton was intercepted, his third of the game. Even worse, it came against New England.

In Week 12, he was picked off four times.

In Week 13, another four.

It was inconceivable. For Manning, inexcusable.

In Manning fashion, he bounced back on Thursday Night Football with a huge game.

But the first cracks had shown.

These facts are all true for a few games but due to different factors injuries being a main culprit. I can safely assume you agree with this article, correct me if I am wrong, but you cant just single out pieces of a season, take the season as a whole and include the factors that caused the "Cracks" as stated. A perfect example is this past Super Bowl, the injury to Gronkowski was huge and had a major impact on how the Patriots went about running their offense and Giants went about running their defense in that game. If Gronkowski is healthy its a totally different ball game. In the end numbers dont lie. 4700 yds 33TD's 17 INT'S AND 66 percent completion isnt a bad season and play hasnt declined. Now go back and look at how many QB'S had a better season than Manning in 2010 with a healthy cast of offensive players on their end for a majority of the 2010 season, not many

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and I'd hope you agree that on field performance should not be the only consideration determining how to move forward

I don't know how much Mr. Irsay will weigh different factors.

However, for me, the illusion of loyalty from a player to a team and vice versa is over-rated, and does not contribute much (if any) to the probability of winning. If you do not pay a player what he is worth in the open market, he will most likely move to a team that will (if he contractually can). If a player cannot perform on the field, you should not pay him IMO (unless you are contractually obligated to), contrary to what Mr. Irsay did for PM last season.

I know that may seem cold and hard-hearted to you, but I see the NFL, and the Colts as businesses. Perhaps Mr. Irsay has a different opinion.

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Successful businesses have to do more than just offer the highest pay rate if they want to continually attract the best talent.

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These facts are all true for a few games but due to different factors injuries being a main culprit. I can safely assume you agree with this article, correct me if I am wrong, but you cant just single out pieces of a season, take the season as a whole and include the factors that caused the "Cracks" as stated. A perfect example is this past Super Bowl, the injury to Gronkowski was huge and had a major impact on how the Patriots went about running their offense and Giants went about running their defense in that game. If Gronkowski is healthy its a totally different ball game. In the end numbers dont lie. 4700 yds 33TD's 17 INT'S AND 66 percent completion isnt a bad season and play hasnt declined. Now go back and look at how many QB'S had a better season than Manning in 2010 with a healthy cast of offensive players on their end for a majority of the 2010 season, not many

I do not consider these examples of PM's performance in 2010 as conclusive. I see them as supporting evidence that supports the notion that great QBs retire or should retire in their mid-30s. What we don't have is PM's performance in 2011 to continue to provide statistics and examples.

You can easily blame other players not being available due to injury for the performance of the team. You provided the injury to TE Gronkowski as a contributing factor to NE's loss in the recent SB. I can provide the injury to PM as a contributing factor to the Colts 2-14 season. Others (like former coach Metzelaars) can provide other factors that led to the 2-14 season, such as the offense being so PM-centric such that another QB could not run it successfully. That all may have some truth to it. However, the results are the results.

I think the author made his point in citing specific examples in various games in 2010, that supports his contention that PM is showing signs of possible decline. You may not agree with him, and that is your prerogative.

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Successful businesses have to do more than just offer the highest pay rate if they want to continually attract the best talent.

True, they have to offer the illusion (whether true or not) that it is a stable and growing business with a bright future.

They have to demonstrate past success and future expectation for success.

They have to demonstrate the ability to develop employees and point to the successful career path (including retirements) of past employees.

They have to show that they are ethical in their business dealings.

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All this talk of how a QB protected league will extend the playing life of the NFL QB has valid points. Most of the QB's cited in the article that Frog posted were an average of 35/36 yrs old. More recent retirements have been closer to 38. Which is why I've said in other posts that I'd think Manning would play for another 2 seasons and then retire. He'd be 38.

Of course if this injury never happened I'd say he'd play until he was 40. But I think the injury shortens it by 2 years; the arm, not the neck. From articles I've read about nerve regeneration it can take quite a while to get the muscles back to full strength, and often times it never gets back to its previous strength. Peyton might also suffer from more fatigue in the arm then prior to the injury, so coaches may have to limit the number of throws in practice and in games.

Or it could be entirely possible that Peyton only wants to play 1 more year. I think he knows that the rebuilding Colts are few years away now from being serious SB contenders, and he knows that doesn't fit into the years he's got left. That being said, I don't think Peyton would want to go a SB ready team just to win one with that team. I might be wrong, but Peyton is pretty old fashioned it seems. He wants to play his entire career with the team he started with, he wants that mark in this legacy. So hopefully he's willing to do some negotiating. He's a father now and that certainly has bearing in his decision making.

But most importantly he wants to go out on his terms, not on the injury terms. He wants to retire after having played, not watched on the sidelines.

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Well Peyton hasn't spent a lot of time on his back over the course of his career . He'll drop to avoid the big hit & doesn't scramble . The surgery has given his body a year off . Only recently did he return to a heavy conditioning program . Other factors play into " the decline " . Marino was no longer directing an offense full of weapons . Aikman suffered multiple concussions . Bradshaw didn't just decline . The whole Steelers team aged & failed to be a factor . The 49'ers began retooling & took several years to return to the Super Bowl after Montana left . His stats weren't great in KC but he almost singlehandedly took an average team to the Super Bowl . Don't forget , Montana was clobbered over his career & had several major surgeries behind him . Stats alone can be deceiving . I've no doubt that Manning , in a well balanced offense that no longer relies on him to carry them for 16 games , can continue to excel . He continues to get smarter .

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I do not consider these examples of PM's performance in 2010 as conclusive. I see them as supporting evidence that supports the notion that great QBs retire or should retire in their mid-30s. What we don't have is PM's performance in 2011 to continue to provide statistics and examples.

You can easily blame other players not being available due to injury for the performance of the team. You provided the injury to TE Gronkowski as a contributing factor to NE's loss in the recent SB. I can provide the injury to PM as a contributing factor to the Colts 2-14 season. Others (like former coach Metzelaars) can provide other factors that led to the 2-14 season, such as the offense being so PM-centric such that another QB could not run it successfully. That all may have some truth to it. However, the results are the results.

I think the author made his point in citing specific examples in various games in 2010, that supports his contention that PM is showing signs of possible decline. You may not agree with him, and that is your prerogative.

I guess we agree to disagree but nevertheless lets make a friendly bet. PM has more than 28 tds and less than 16 ints, with whatever team he plays for.

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I guess we agree to disagree but nevertheless lets make a friendly bet. PM has more than 28 tds and less than 16 ints, with whatever team he plays for.

If he plays this upcoming season.

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thanks, good article

It will be interesting to see how much longer QB's will be playing since they are pretty much wearing a red-shirt in the games now. For example, Namath, did anyone see that HBO special on him? wow those were some brutal hits he took. You don't see QB's getting hit like that now days. It will be interesting to see if that age of decline goes up with the new rules for QB's and safety priority.

You're welcome.

Are QBs wearing red shirts in these games now? Maybe the reason PM got injured and required 3 surgeries was because he forgot to wear his red shirt that day?

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