2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[Chrisaaron1023]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think it's water they are drinking, I think it is Lightning Moon Shine the way they are playing!

Boston is killing it in all sports. lol. Philly is actually trying to sneak in there too. But something about Mass i guess

[dgambill]

11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think everyone will be back IMO and we just lost to LeBron James. That series to me felt more like the 2nd Round than it did the 1st Round. No shame in losing to him.

You don't think Thad opts out? He played extremely well this year and his versatility might appeal to someone. The question really becomes do we go after the poor class of 2018 free agents or do we save our money for the much deeper class of 2019? I would say you go ahead and stand pat...draft smart...maybe make some small adjustments but keep the core together and wait and see what happens in the East....there is bound to be some adjustments if Lebron does in fact leave. It's going to leave Boston and Philly as the front runners.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You don't think Thad opts out? He played extremely well this year and his versatility might appeal to someone. The question really becomes do we go after the poor class of 2018 free agents or do we save our money for the much deeper class of 2019? I would say you go ahead and stand pat...draft smart...maybe make some small adjustments but keep the core together and wait and see what happens in the East....there is bound to be some adjustments if Lebron does in fact leave. It's going to leave Boston and Philly as the front runners.

Yeah Thad could leave I guess, not sure on that but I think he loves playing here. I hope he stays. If anyone leaves it could be him but I think he comes back.

[dgambill]

Terry Rozier's rise is what is fueling Boston. He has basically come out of nowhere from defensive specialist backing up Thomas and Irving to showing he can be a deadly scorer. He is playing out of his mind. We knew what everyone else could bring to the table...all know their roles...solid players ready to contribute...but nobody could predict Rozier would break out like this. He has one more year left on a very reasonable contract so it will be interesting to see what the Celtics do. He would be great trade bait...but also its clear Kyrie has had injury concerns over the years and they may want to extend him to make sure they have a back up to him. Boston has just drafted very very well. If they could ever get their team healthy all together...watch out!

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Terry Rozier's rise is what is fueling Boston. He has basically come out of nowhere from defensive specialist backing up Thomas and Irving to showing he can be a deadly scorer. He is playing out of his mind. We knew what everyone else could bring to the table...all know their roles...solid players ready to contribute...but nobody could predict Rozier would break out like this. He has one more year left on a very reasonable contract so it will be interesting to see what the Celtics do. He would be great trade bait...but also its clear Kyrie has had injury concerns over the years and they may want to extend him to make sure they have a back up to him. Boston has just drafted very very well. If they could ever get their team healthy all together...watch out!

Boston is loaded, they will be Great next year and that isn't good  

[dgambill]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Thad could leave I guess, not sure on that but I think he loves playing here. I hope he stays. If anyone leaves it could be him but I think he comes back.

It's hard to say. I think he likes the team....but he has a player option for like 13 million....the question is always tough for these middle tier guys....is the money in the market for him to get more. Based on his play he has earned it compared to many other guys....I'd say probably in the 15-18 range...but getting the money when everyone just wants max guys and then fill ins....is very tough. He is a good fit for us and should come back hopefully. I think a play making pg that can shoot 3s is the biggest missing piece for this team. We have enough guys like Lance, Thad, and Boggs that can cover and play at the 3 if needed. Nobody can play Lebron...nobody...just like nobody can play KD. They are on another level so you don't want to knee jerk and say that's our weakest spot just based on looking at this series. I know Collison shot the 3 very well last year and Joseph's length is a plus I think upgrading that spot is the key....along with Myles taking that next step....he has to make a leap like Dipo did. To me this is the year he has to do it. So....PG....and looking at who is available this offseason (Chris Paul excluded) and it looks very slim in free agency. So do we pull a trade? Which is the way the Pacers have basically always had to do it....that means then we start losing some of these key pieces we have put together...or we wait til 2019 and spend money on some of the big free agents.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

It's hard to say. I think he likes the team....but he has a player option for like 13 million....the question is always tough for these middle tier guys....is the money in the market for him to get more. Based on his play he has earned it compared to many other guys....I'd say probably in the 15-18 range...but getting the money when everyone just wants max guys and then fill ins....is very tough. He is a good fit for us and should come back hopefully. I think a play making pg that can shoot 3s is the biggest missing piece for this team. We have enough guys like Lance, Thad, and Boggs that can cover and play at the 3 if needed. Nobody can play Lebron...nobody...just like nobody can play KD. They are on another level so you don't want to knee jerk and say that's our weakest spot just based on looking at this series. I know Collison shot the 3 very well last year and Joseph's length is a plus I think upgrading that spot is the key....along with Myles taking that next step....he has to make a leap like Dipo did. To me this is the year he has to do it. So....PG....and looking at who is available this offseason (Chris Paul excluded) and it looks very slim in free agency. So do we pull a trade? Which is the way the Pacers have basically always had to do it....that means then we start losing some of these key pieces we have put together...or we wait til 2019 and spend money on some of the big free agents.

I think a healthy Leonard could guard LeBron or KD, problem is if we even wanted trade for him, we would have to give up Turner and probably Boggs, and who knows what else??

[dgambill]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Boston is loaded, they will be Great next year and that isn't good  

Boston is so good but their players are starting to out play Bostons ability to keep them. You can't pay them all big money....so these young rookie contracts are going to start to get expensive for them. Plus every year is a year away from Hortfords prime. If I can't have Brad Stevens as my coach I might as well have his players....in 2019 we have almost no one on the books except for Dipo, Sabonis, and rookies and then would just have Myles as the major guy to re-sign. We would have huge money available. If we stay patient and just tweak things and not take on a bunch of money...its our best bet to make a run with the core 3 guys.

[dgambill]

20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think a healthy Leonard could guard LeBron or KD, problem is if we even wanted trade for him, we would have to give up Turner and probably Boggs, and who knows what else??

Yes...he is probably the only guy in the league that can....and yes I'd give up anything outside Dipo to land him....but SA could get a lot more then we can offer. Myles and parts straight up for Leonard would be a steal no matter what we offered. Looking around the league they could another super star from someone else easily....they won't be interested in spare parts imo.

[dgambill]

After last offseason I think we all owe Pritchard the benefit of the doubt to let him make this decision and say wait and see. Obviously we hit a home run with Sabonis and Dipo....and his signings for Bogs, Collison, and Joseph were spot on too. I'm excited to see what he does. We may never be able to assemble a super team...but with the right pieces maybe we hit a magical season.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Being objective:

Jordan - 6 Championships, 6 Finals MVP's, 5 League MVP's, 6-0 in Finals, 4th all-time leading Scorer, 10 Time Scoring Champ, 9 Time 1st Team Defense.

 

Magic - 5 Championships, 3 Finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's, 11.2 Assist average over his 12 year career which is #1 all-time. Won Finals MVP as a Rookie, only player ever to do so.

 

Kareem - 6 Championships, 2 Finals MVP's, 6 League MVP's, NBA's all-time leading Scorer.

 

LeBron - 3 Championships, 3-5 in Finals though, does have 4 League MVP's 1 more than Magic, 3 Finals MVP's same as Magic.

 

-LeBron needs a better resume to be Top 3 JMO. By my eye test he is not as Clutch as the 3 players I mentioned either. Magic game winning Hook Shot at Boston = 1987 Finals in Game 4 to put LA up 3-1. That was the series! Jordan game winning shot at Utah in Game 6 = 1998 Finals to win series! LeBron never made a game winning shot in a Finals game. Ray Allen bailed him out in 2013 vs Spurs, Spurs had that won in 6 LOL and Kyrie same thing in 2016 at Warriors in Game 7. Otherwise he could easily be 1-7 in Finals. Facts hurt when you look at my facts regarding how people put LeBron on a Throne

[dgambill]

55 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Being objective:

Jordan - 6 Championships, 6 Finals MVP's, 5 League MVP's, 6-0 in Finals, 4th all-time leading Scorer, 10 Time Scoring Champ, 9 Time 1st Team Defense.

 

Magic - 5 Championships, 3 Finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's, 11.2 Assist average over his 12 year career which is #1 all-time. Won Finals MVP as a Rookie, only player ever to do so.

 

Kareem - 6 Championships, 2 Finals MVP's, 6 League MVP's, NBA's all-time leading Scorer.

 

LeBron - 3 Championships, 3-5 in Finals though, does have 4 League MVP's 1 more than Magic, 3 Finals MVP's same as Magic.

 

-LeBron needs a better resume to be Top 3 JMO. By my eye test he is not as Clutch as the 3 players I mentioned either. Magic game winning Hook Shot at Boston = 1987 Finals in Game 4 to put LA up 3-1. That was the series! Jordan game winning shot at Utah in Game 6 = 1998 Finals to win series! LeBron never made a game winning shot in a Finals game. Ray Allen bailed him out in 2013 vs Spurs, Spurs had that won in 6 LOL and Kyrie same thing in 2016 at Warriors in Game 7. Otherwise he could easily be 1-7 in Finals. Facts hurt when you look at my facts regarding how people put LeBron on a Throne

I'd put Lebron 2 to Jordan. Lebron didn't have the teammates that Kareem and Magic had. Lebrons career isn't over but I don't hate him for carrying a horrible Cav team to play Tim Duncan early in his career....and I don't blame him when Kyrie and Love were out and they lost to GS in 6. I also don't blame him when in 2014 Wade and Bosh both avg what 14 pts a game in the finals.....putrid....I think its pretty clutch to take your team to the Championship like 7 years in a row hitting game winning shots along the way or making game winning plays. Nobody cries about Kobe's rings when in fact Fisher and Horry were nailing 3's to save their post seasons for him and Shaq. It's a team sport and you don't win on your own. Nobody cries that Steve Kerr is hitting championship winning 3s against the Suns for Jordan. Maybe Lebron didn't hit a game winning shot against GS but he did have one of the most electrifying game saving blocks in finals history stopping Iggy in game 7. Winners just make plays. Lebron has made plenty of them. Heck the guy avg a triple double in last years finals. I'm very much dislike his attitude but being objective he is the best basketball player of all time (greatest to me goes to Michael). A combo of Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan he can score as well as Michael when his team needs it and he distributes at the level of Magic to facilitate his teams offense. I respect your opinions Coltsbestever and you don't have to lay out the championship arguments you have many times. It's just my opinion and it won't change unless I see some one different come along but Lebron is the most talented and all-around best player I've ever witnessed hands down. He may not be the greatest just like I think Tom Brady is the greatest qb of all time but I would put someone else (Manning) as the best. But I just think you short change Lebron....even though the list you have is an elite of elite list of greatest players...Lebron is just as special as any of those imo. He has long surpassed Kobe in my eyes and what he continues to accomplish is just short of miraculous.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, dgambill said:

I'd put Lebron 2 to Jordan. Lebron didn't have the teammates that Kareem and Magic had. Lebrons career isn't over but I don't hate him for carrying a horrible Cav team to play Tim Duncan early in his career....and I don't blame him when Kyrie and Love were out and they lost to GS in 6. I also don't blame him when in 2014 Wade and Bosh both avg what 14 pts a game in the finals.....putrid....I think its pretty clutch to take your team to the Championship like 7 years in a row hitting game winning shots along the way or making game winning plays. Nobody cries about Kobe's rings when in fact Fisher and Horry were nailing 3's to save their post seasons for him and Shaq. It's a team sport and you don't win on your own. Nobody cries that Steve Kerr is hitting championship winning 3s against the Suns for Jordan. Maybe Lebron didn't hit a game winning shot against GS but he did have one of the most electrifying game saving blocks in finals history stopping Iggy in game 7. Winners just make plays. Lebron has made plenty of them. Heck the guy avg a triple double in last years finals. I'm very much dislike his attitude but being objective he is the best basketball player of all time (greatest to me goes to Michael). A combo of Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan he can score as well as Michael when his team needs it and he distributes at the level of Magic to facilitate his teams offense. I respect your opinions Coltsbestever and you don't have to lay out the championship arguments you have many times. It's just my opinion and it won't change unless I see some one different come along but Lebron is the most talented and all-around best player I've ever witnessed hands down. He may not be the greatest just like I think Tom Brady is the greatest qb of all time but I would put someone else (Manning) as the best. But I just think you short change Lebron....even though the list you have is an elite of elite list of greatest players...Lebron is just as special as any of those imo. He has long surpassed Kobe in my eyes and what he continues to accomplish is just short of miraculous.

I respect what you are saying but all we can go is a players body of work to rank these guys = Factual things. LeBron doesn't have a better body of work than Jordan or Kareem and about the same to Magic. Magic only played 12 seasons otherwise Magic's body work would even be better. I don't think I short change LeBron at all. I realize how Great how he is and he has been the best player of this decade - if that isn't kissing his butt by me, I don't know what would be LOL. Even when it comes to Brady/Peyton, Peyton at least has a lot of key arguments to being just as Great like 5-3 in League MVP's, he has won the SB with 2 different teams = only QB in NFL history to do so (players do it a lot in Basketball), etc.. I have LeBron in my Top 10 but Top 5 is pushing it. If someone has him in there Top 5 I can buy that but 2nd - NO, See I am even giving LeBron love here as well. I have no doubt Magic could've won at least 3 Championships without Kareem that is how Great he was. Of course that is an opinion but Kareem was much older when the Lakers won their last 2 Championships and James Worthy was actually their 2nd best players in 87 and 88. Magic also went to a Finals with Vlade Divac at Center and more than likely would've won another Championship had they not played Michael Jordan. Oh well these are always fun debates when Playoff time rolls around, so it's all good.

[Bluefire4]

Kevin Love is awful. He looks like he doesn't even want to play. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Go Toronto LOL!

[2006Coltsbestever]

Toronto not only needs to win tonight, they need to win Game 2 as well. They have to take care of HCA and get a 2 game cushion to beat the Cavs. Depspite Love stinking it up, LeBron is actually getting help tonight and they are still losing 78-65. JR has 14, Green 13, Korver 10. They have 3 other guys in double figures. Toronto may be to deep for them though?

[2006Coltsbestever]

Down to 7 now at 81-74. Korver just hit another 3. This game is far from over.

[Chrisaaron1023]

Tristan Thompson is an offensive board god... He's magnetic

[aaron11]

that was not in the act of shooting 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Tristan Thompson is an offensive board god... He's magnetic

Yeah he is . LeBron is actually getting help tonight for a change = Korver 16, JR 14, and Green 14. Thompson has 5 Offensive Boards as well but Toronto is just so deep they have managed to maintain their lead. If Kevin Love was doing his part, Cavs might be winning this game.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Speak of the devil, here comes the Love. A 3 cuts it to 5!

[Chrisaaron1023]

Way too close for comfort lol. Is LeBron just an automatic bid for the Finals???

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Way too close for comfort lol. Is LeBron just an automatic bid for the Finals???

Cavs fans definitely cant complain about his help tonight. JR - 17, Korver - 16, Green - 16. 3 other guys have 16 or more for them and Thompson even has 12. I guess if they do lose, they can blame Kevin Love but that is about it. Raptors only up 102-101, anyone's ball game at this point!

[oldunclemark]

23 hours ago, IndyScribe said:

Good. Remember, they still have Fultz coming off the bench. If he can find his shot, that's another player that'll contribute a lot. They also have an offseason to add to their bench. They kind of remind me of the Jaguars in a way. A team that's been drafting well at the top for the past few years and now all the fans come out saying they're the best in the league and will win the championship.

It's not that far. In 3 years, it's still conceivable to think that Philly and Celtics will be contending. 

anybody could be contending in3 years....Embid has to be resigned.and he'll,want a max deal..

.......and all the perimter players  the 'United Nations' group.

Look at rosters 3 years ago and check out which players are still on the terams they were on in 2015

 

We have a lot of guys whose contracts  are up next year

[oldunclemark]

Big Val is blowing the game...103-102..but nobody else wants a  shot.

Toronto is playing scared

[oldunclemark]

     Raptors were up 14 but they decided it was time not to guard Korver.

They have to win this..they cant recover from a loss here

what is Lowry doing???????  he ate the ball

[oldunclemark]

LeBron called for a foul when the shooter came down on his foot??

How come we didn't get calls like that???

[Bluefire4]

The Cavs late game possessions are awful. LeBron just holds the ball until there is 5 seconds left on the clock.

[aaron11]

thats flagrant 

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

The Cavs late game possessions are awful. LeBron just holds the ball until there is 5 seconds left on the clock.

So true.....everybody says he's a 'pass first' guy but that s not what you see.....in close games

[oldunclemark]

105-105...wow..Raptors in serious doo-doo     :18 left

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

thats flagrant 

That's very true.............its a shot to the head.....it was  an accident..but 'accidental or intentional' isn't in the rules..

OMG....Raptors missed 3 shots inside 5 feet...really???

[oldunclemark]

  "01.....  Cavs can win it...wonder who'll shoot?

 

LBJ missed at the buzzer... (OH, NOW he misses!!_)

[Bluefire4]

Valuciunas can't make a tip in to save his life.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Looks like OT, his Lordship missed.

[oldunclemark]

why dont they stay on Korver....?  

[Chrisaaron1023]

Lol lefather takin it to his children

[Bluefire4]

LeBron is 1-7 from the 3pt line and 1-6 from the free throw line tonight, but he wanted to make every shot against us.

 

Figures 

[oldunclemark]

If anybody wondered why we let LBJ go 1-on-1 and covered other shooters...here's why

......Toronto isnt doing that and they're getting burned.. Korver, JR..

111-107....Cavs

 

Did Lowry get hurt earlier ...He just seems to give the ball up...

[oldunclemark]

Toronto missed 15 of their last 16 shots in the 4th Q...top seed in the East..,..wow