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2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread


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2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

why would i lie about being 35?

 

 

Why would I lie about being James Bond?

    'I gotta license to kill.'  'The writings on the wall"

 

You're a kid. Its okay. I wish I was.

Edited by oldunclemark
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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

LOL, I would actually give anything to be 35 again. I am 45 but that 10 years makes a difference.

You guys are a lot younger than I am

 

When I was young..Superman got dressed in a phone booth and Clark Kent worked in a newspaper office.

Now, phone booths are gone and newspaper offices are almost gone

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2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

You guys are a lot younger than I am

 

When I was young..Superman got dressed in a phone booth and Clark Kent worked in a newspaper office.

Now, phone booths are gone and newspaper offices are almost gone

I just cant believe how fast my 30's went and once you turn 40 the clock is technically ticking because on average one's life is half over. It's funny how over time your aches and pains get worse, your eyesight gets worse, etc.. but it's better than being 6 feet under.

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1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

How many great players are there in the NBA today?

 

There's LeBron and Kevin Durant and who else?   

Maybe Nowitzki at the end of his career  .....but I'm talking great

How are you going to say Durant and only a maybe for Nowitzki, when the two have the exact same skill set. How quickly people forget how freakish of an athlete Nowitzki was just a decade ago. He had the quickness to take guys off the dribble and the straight line speed to outrun most players on those Nash fastbreaks

 

And Nowitzki didnt have to join the greatest team ever to get his ring.

 

Kawahi, Curry and as much as i hate him, Draymond, need to be on the list of all time greats

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3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not really, he shot 40% from 3 in college. It wouldn't shock me at all if next game he shoots 6-10 from 3. He just had an off night and it's the Summer League. Jason Kidd struggled a lot from 3 and he was still an all-time great player because he was a great playmaker.

Jason Kidd was a freak athlete who developed a shot as his athleticism declined. I also saw Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler mentioned, also all freak athletes, but all three developed their shot while still in their athletic primes. All of them are terrible comparisons to Lonzo.

 

Lonzo is a sub par athlete, with a perceived elite skill, his passing. A much better comparison is Jimmer Fredette, elite skill, his shooting, with sub par athleticism. 

 

Lonzo also has one of the hardest shooting motions to fix. It's a very slow release with a hitch halfway through. Worst of all, it was successful until he reached the NBA.

 

Honestly, the media narrative for this NBA draft reminds me so much of the Luck vs RGIII narrative. Where you have one prospect so much better than the rest, that they just glossed over all the weaknesses of the 2nd to make it seem like at least a close competition. With De'Aaron Fox or Donovan Mitchell playing the Kirk Cousins role of overlooked prospect that is much better than the 2nd pick.

 

Speaking of comparisons to Luck, I dont know if you want to call it personality or leadership, but De'Aaron Fox is incredibly similar. He expects big things of his teammates, but when things goes south, he will always take the fault even if it doesnt belong to him. Compare that to Lavar Ball throwing his son's teammates under the bus for shortcomings that actually belong to his son. Obviously, Lonzo doesnt necessarily have to be like his dad

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3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Why would I lie about being James Bond?

    'I gotta license to kill.'  'The writings on the wall"

 

You're a kid. Its okay. I wish I was.

This what I thought it had to be Why were they saying we couldn't do what we have done in every decade? Compete for a title. They don't know. 

 

We took the Bulls 7 and should have sent them home game 7 up 2 mins to go We never competed? They don't even know what has to be remembered Jackson getting arm barred from baseline to baseline that series. Then Reggie and Jalen going for 40 each our broke through year Hell that was 17 years ago. How many players not drafted by the Pacers on that team? Mullin Mark McKey Jalen that's 4 key guys. Mark Jackson and Chris Mullin were thought of pretty highly of when we signed them. 

 

Then it was JO's team never forget lhim coming out with 2 to go sitting on 55 points so not to get Uncle Reggies playoff record 57. That kid was total class and he could ball. Injuries got to him early like too many big men. JO healthy could play for me anywhere Luckily we were sitting in the lottery waiting on him. Artest and S Jackson too just sitting there waiting. 

 

We will move quickly forward with out PG. He will be but a drop in the bucket in franchise history. Those who are so upset don't know or understand the history. It's Turner time lets start the show. 

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1 hour ago, HOFClipboardHolder said:

Jason Kidd was a freak athlete who developed a shot as his athleticism declined. I also saw Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler mentioned, also all freak athletes, but all three developed their shot while still in their athletic primes. All of them are terrible comparisons to Lonzo.

 

Lonzo is a sub par athlete, with a perceived elite skill, his passing. A much better comparison is Jimmer Fredette, elite skill, his shooting, with sub par athleticism. 

 

Lonzo also has one of the hardest shooting motions to fix. It's a very slow release with a hitch halfway through. Worst of all, it was successful until he reached the NBA.

 

Honestly, the media narrative for this NBA draft reminds me so much of the Luck vs RGIII narrative. Where you have one prospect so much better than the rest, that they just glossed over all the weaknesses of the 2nd to make it seem like at least a close competition. With De'Aaron Fox or Donovan Mitchell playing the Kirk Cousins role of overlooked prospect that is much better than the 2nd pick.

 

Speaking of comparisons to Luck, I dont know if you want to call it personality or leadership, but De'Aaron Fox is incredibly similar. He expects big things of his teammates, but when things goes south, he will always take the fault even if it doesnt belong to him. Compare that to Lavar Ball throwing his son's teammates under the bus for shortcomings that actually belong to his son. Obviously, Lonzo doesnt necessarily have to be like his dad

You are all over the place with this Post - 1. Lonzo isn't a Subpar Athlete as you say he is, he's long and tall and runs the floor well, 2. Did you actually put Jimmer Fredette in the same sentence as Lonzo Ball (comparing them)? That perhaps is the funniest thing I have ever read on here, 3. Lonzo Ball isn't even anywhere near a RG3 comparison, RG3 was too little to play the QB position for his style of play, therefore he became Injury prone, 4. You say worst of all Lonzo's shot was successful until he reached the NBA, I mean really?? He hasn't even played 1 Regular Season game yet. He played 1 Summer League game and had an off night. Where did you come up with that? Man you must really hate this kid. I am not trying to be mean but none of what you said even makes sense.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You are all over the place with this Post - 1. Lonzo isn't a Subpar Athlete as you say he is, he's long and tall and runs the floor well, 2. Did you actually put Jimmer Fredette in the same sentence as Lonzo Ball (comparing them)? That perhaps is the funniest thing I have ever read on here, 3. Lonzo Ball isn't even anywhere near a RG3 comparison, RG3 was too little to play the QB position for his style of play, therefore he became Injury prone, 4. You say worst of all Lonzo's shot was successful until he reached the NBA, I mean really?? He hasn't even played 1 Regular Season game yet. He played 1 Summer League game and had an off night. Where did you come up with that. Man you must really hate this kid. I am not trying to be mean but none of what you said even makes sense.

As I said on draft night I see a Todd Marinovich like situation with Ball and his Dad

 

Lonzo is a great player but his Dad already has him at the Jordan-Magic-Bird level

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1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

As I said on draft night I see a Todd Marinovich like situation with Ball and his Dad

 

Lonzo is a great player but his Dad already has him at the Jordan-Magic-Bird level

Apparently he is Jimmer Fredette now according to some people lmao. I am not a huge fan of Ball (as in rah rah type of stuff and I cant stand his dad) but I think he will be Very Good if not Great in 2 or 3 years. I like Fox better but it's real close. I don't have a feel for Fultz yet. He didn't win much in college.

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4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

As I said on draft night I see a Todd Marinovich like situation with Ball and his Dad

 

Lonzo is a great player but his Dad already has him at the Jordan-Magic-Bird level

I don't see the Marinovich comparison either. Marinovich did a crap load of drugs which messed his career up. Unless I am messing something I doubt Lonzo even goes near drugs.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't see the Marinovich comparison either. Marinovich did a crap load of drugs which messed his career up. Unless I am messing something I doubt Lonzo even goes near drugs.

I was referring to the Father-Son relationship not the career

 

His Dad trained him to be the next great QB

 

 

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Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

I was referring to the Father-Son relationship not the career

 

His Dad trained him to be the next great QB

 

 

I know that but Marinovich didn't want that actually, it was forced on him + he did drugs. Lonzo seems to love Basketball. Marinovich said growing up he didn't even like Football but his dad forced it on him. I just think it's different, JMO.

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3 hours ago, HOFClipboardHolder said:

How are you going to say Durant and only a maybe for Nowitzki, when the two have the exact same skill set. How quickly people forget how freakish of an athlete Nowitzki was just a decade ago. He had the quickness to take guys off the dribble and the straight line speed to outrun most players on those Nash fastbreaks

 

And Nowitzki didnt have to join the greatest team ever to get his ring.

 

Kawahi, Curry and as much as i hate him, Draymond, need to be on the list of all time greats

Curry has to be on the list. He's the second best player in the league IMO. He has taken the game to a new place. He can do some things the NBA had not seen. The handles with the long ball. He's a one of a kind and the center of what's happened at GS. 

 

I don't know about Draymond. I'm a fan. I hoped we'd get him coming out of MSU. Is a generational guy?  I don't think so but that's what makes the league great. We'd all have a different answer.

 

There is LBJ and then Curry KD Westie Kawhi Davis begrudgingly CP3  Harden but we are dropping to a lower tier after that.

 

Lebron is a different animal no question but to me Curry is behind him. Westbrook averaged a triple double that was one of those impossible it'll never happen again accomplishments. It's tough to compare and rank. Lebron being number one might be the only thing everyone can agree on. 

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15 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

As I said on draft night I see a Todd Marinovich like situation with Ball and his Dad

 

Lonzo is a great player but his Dad already has him at the Jordan-Magic-Bird level

I can see the comparison you are making. It's not every thing in their life you are looking at and sadly Ball could end up like that. If he doesn't make it the pressure is too much.This could end badly no question. It's not a certainty he is going to succeed at this level and even less of one he will be great. 

 

His dad needs to take a look at Tigre's dad. We get it you trained him and got him here. It's time to step back now. He's not going to be a superstar this season.I don't think. How many 19 year olds take the league by storm? He's still maturing playing with grown men. Pop's is adding to the pressure not helping him. He's going to cause this kid to get boo'd in every city. Boo's are tough especially when things aren't going well and you have never really dealt with either. Man PT you did it I feel for the kid. 

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Lakers lost but Lonzo Ball had a TDB with 11-11-11 across the boards. I didn't watch it but a TDB is solid, it's not Jimmer numbers though :sarcasm:

 

Tatum had 27 points and looked a lot better, but all the spotlight goes to the kid with the big mouth dad and insane hype. 

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6 minutes ago, Synthetic said:

 

Tatum had 27 points and looked a lot better, but all the spotlight goes to the kid with the big mouth dad and insane hype. 

I am going to bed here in a minute and don't even care about this crap one way or another to be honest because the people that hate him, hate him. I think the hate Lonzo gets is so stupid and it's based on his dad being a loud mouth. If people on here want to bash him and say he's a bust because of 1 bad Summer League game then I hope it makes them feel good. All I did, was point out he had a TDB. 11 Rebounds and 11 Assists is pretty impressive by anyone's standards. 11 Points is ok as well when you have 11 Assists. As far as debating with people in here about Lonzo from here and out, I am not going to do it anymore though after tonight because I am getting to old for the nonsense back and forth stuff with people. If people want to bash him then go for it if that gives them thrills and joy. I said my peace about it and I know he will be Very Good if not Great. He has an all-around game where he can Assist/Rebound/and Score. If he improves his shot which he will, he will be a Great Pro. I will just let his play speak for itself from here on out and let D Russell lovers watch that guy disappear in Brooklyn.

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5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You are all over the place with this Post - 1. Lonzo isn't a Subpar Athlete as you say he is, he's long and tall and runs the floor well, 2. Did you actually put Jimmer Fredette in the same sentence as Lonzo Ball (comparing them)? That perhaps is the funniest thing I have ever read on here, 3. Lonzo Ball isn't even anywhere near a RG3 comparison, RG3 was too little to play the QB position for his style of play, therefore he became Injury prone, 4. You say worst of all Lonzo's shot was successful until he reached the NBA, I mean really?? He hasn't even played 1 Regular Season game yet. He played 1 Summer League game and had an off night. Where did you come up with that? Man you must really hate this kid. I am not trying to be mean but none of what you said even makes sense.

 

Being tall and long doesnt make you athletic. Roy Hibbert is a mountain of a man and nobody is describing him as athletic. Lonzo has terrible lateral quickness, which is why UCLA used a zone. Lonzo had difficulty keeping up one on one at the college level. If you caught Lonzo in an ISO, the opponent would score.

 

RGIII wasnt that much smaller than your average QB. He couldnt read a defense pre-snap and relied to heavily on his athleticism. Opposing defenses just caught up with him. The past few seasons hes been getting benched while healthy. But, thats not the point. The narrative was that it doesnt matter who you get Luck or Griffen, both are can't-miss prospects. They glossed over all of Griffen's weaknesses and there were quite a few. With this draft, the narrative was a talent heavy draft with the top two standing above the rest. Once again, the issues with the second pick were glossed over to make it seem like the top 2 were closer in talent than the actual truth is.

 

Lonzo has serious issues with his shooting motion, which wasnt an issue when playing in high school and to some degree in college against players who just dont have the talent to play in the nba. In the NBA, that shot is going to get blocked, a lot. The motion is slow, it has a hitch, the ball is too far away from his body on the horizontal plane and way too close to his body on the vertical plane. It's incredibly difficult to tell someone who's been successful that what they have done up until now was wrong and that they have to rework his shooting motion from scratch. It's much easier to teach someone like Joel Embiid to shoot. Someone who didnt start playing basketball until his mid-late teens. Somebody who doesnt have a preconceived opinion on a proper shooting motion

 

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12 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Blue..I'm not saying he will never be a center..

But now....when we both agree hes not strong enough...

 

He can do both depending on the matchup..but he;s only a small=ball '5' now

..let him be a '4'......he can get his shot off on any perimiter defender..and he can put the ball on the floor a little.

I think he can be   '5' when Leaf is the '4' and a '4' when Sabonis or Seraphin are the '5';

 

 See what I mean?

Coach says he is definitely going to be a center. He didn't play at the 4 this season and he won't this season. He's going to have to learn quickly.

 

And I'd definitely want him at the rim for his shot blocking ability than to rely on Sabonis who has barely shown starting 4 ability, let alone being able to play center.

 

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19 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Blue..no way, no how.......you just didn't hear it.

There have been reports that Hayward was going to Boston for 2 years now...His college.coach has been there 3

..and OKC was VERY worried publically that Durant would walk.

Its the same situation

 

You cant trade your best player at mid-season when you are a playoff team.

You cant run a franchise like that. You know that

 

You know that the only people being talked about for a potential trade at the deadline was Jimmy Butler and Paul George. Stop it. The Bulls didn't need to trade Butler because they knew he had two years left. 

 

Gordon Hayward and Kevin Durant (when in OKC) had teams that were vying for a top 4 or higher seed so obviously they weren't getting traded. We barely made the playoffs with Paul George.

 

Many expected Kevin Durant to stay after they took the Warriors 7 games. He just took the easy way out. Hayward had a much better team than PG so I don't blame the Jazz for believing they could get him to re-sign.

 

The Pacers knew PG was leaving and were too stubborn to trade him at the deadline.

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Just watched the Lakers-Celtics summer league game. Tatum is going to be good in this league and Lonzo is a terrific passer.

 

People are hating on Lonzo because of his dad but I don't listen to a word that comes out of his mouth. If the media didn't report what he said, no one would even be talking about it. I want to see Lonzo's play.

 

If Lonzo gets his shot more consistent, he has the potential to be great. He has already shown in his first two games an ability to command the floor.

 

And go watch some of his passes in that Celtics game and tell me it is not something special.

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14 hours ago, akcolt said:

Curry has to be on the list. He's the second best player in the league IMO. He has taken the game to a new place. He can do some things the NBA had not seen. The handles with the long ball. He's a one of a kind and the center of what's happened at GS. 

 

I don't know about Draymond. I'm a fan. I hoped we'd get him coming out of MSU. Is a generational guy?  I don't think so but that's what makes the league great. We'd all have a different answer.

 

There is LBJ and then Curry KD Westie Kawhi Davis begrudgingly CP3  Harden but we are dropping to a lower tier after that.

 

Lebron is a different animal no question but to me Curry is behind him. Westbrook averaged a triple double that was one of those impossible it'll never happen again accomplishments. It's tough to compare and rank. Lebron being number one might be the only thing everyone can agree on. 

You really think Curry is the 2nd best player in the NBA? Hes not even the best player on his own team, IMO. Durant is better than Curry. Curry is no doubt a good player but he can't do some things that a LeBron or Durant can do.

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1 hour ago, RockThatBlue said:

You really think Curry is the 2nd best player in the NBA? Hes not even the best player on his own team, IMO. Durant is better than Curry. Curry is no doubt a good player but he can't do some things that a LeBron or Durant can do.

IMO Durant is the 2nd best player. I would go LeBron 1, Durant 2, Curry 3, Leonard 4, and Westbrook 5

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11 hours ago, HOFClipboardHolder said:

 

 

Being tall and long doesnt make you athletic. Roy Hibbert is a mountain of a man and nobody is describing him as athletic. Lonzo has terrible lateral quickness, which is why UCLA used a zone. Lonzo had difficulty keeping up one on one at the college level. If you caught Lonzo in an ISO, the opponent would score.

 

RGIII wasnt that much smaller than your average QB. He couldnt read a defense pre-snap and relied to heavily on his athleticism. Opposing defenses just caught up with him. The past few seasons hes been getting benched while healthy. But, thats not the point. The narrative was that it doesnt matter who you get Luck or Griffen, both are can't-miss prospects. They glossed over all of Griffen's weaknesses and there were quite a few. With this draft, the narrative was a talent heavy draft with the top two standing above the rest. Once again, the issues with the second pick were glossed over to make it seem like the top 2 were closer in talent than the actual truth is.

 

Lonzo has serious issues with his shooting motion, which wasnt an issue when playing in high school and to some degree in college against players who just dont have the talent to play in the nba. In the NBA, that shot is going to get blocked, a lot. The motion is slow, it has a hitch, the ball is too far away from his body on the horizontal plane and way too close to his body on the vertical plane. It's incredibly difficult to tell someone who's been successful that what they have done up until now was wrong and that they have to rework his shooting motion from scratch. It's much easier to teach someone like Joel Embiid to shoot. Someone who didnt start playing basketball until his mid-late teens. Somebody who doesnt have a preconceived opinion on a proper shooting motion

 

I'll keep this brief because I am already exhausted with the Lonzo back and forth with people. Sad because the season hasn't even started. Hibbert wasn't athletic at all, Lonzo can run the floor really well, Hibbert could not. Jimmer Fredette has stunk as an NBA player to keep it brief (Career Avg 6 Points/1 Assist/1 Rebound) and why are you putting so much emphasis on Summer League games? It's Summer League = meaningless, it's really for guys trying to make the Roster and for guys to get in shape or stay in shape. Rookies just traditionally play in it.

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37 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

You really think Curry is the 2nd best player in the NBA? Hes not even the best player on his own team, IMO. Durant is better than Curry. Curry is no doubt a good player but he can't do some things that a LeBron or Durant can do.

Lebron is the top player in the game I don't think that's a question. I think Curry is in the conversation for sure. There is a strong case to be made for Durant Westbrook averaged a triple double that's impressive too. The thing that puts Curry over the others for me. There has never been a Steph Curry and there is no one like him. If we had a draft and I had the 2nd pick I'm taking Curry and not looking back. 

 

Curry has changed the game. He has handles that you see in a street game. He has it on a string  behind the back between the legs going beteeen 3 people to knock down an off balance 3. He will pull up 5 feet behind the line knock down a step back trey. No one has taken advantage of the extra point like this kid.  No one has had the combination of handles, deadly jump shot and killer instinct. 

 

The guy has turned a 27 foot jump shot into a good shot. You can't pick him up from above the top of the key. You better be up on him as he comes across half court. It only takes an inch happens in the blink of an eye. He will put it up from anywhere. He's not doing it at the end of the quarter slhot clock or game. He's doing all day everyday. He looks like a skinny 15 year old. The kid is in another world.

 

The courts used to be full of kids wanting to dunk. They take off from the ft line to throw down the J Glide. Tomgues are hanging out to air walk like Mike. They'd play on 8 foot rims before practice. I know I did and I saw it as a coach. Take a look what is happening these days. It's all about the long ball that's all about Curry. 

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6 minutes ago, akcolt said:

Lebron is the top player in the game I don't think that's a question. I think Curry is in the conversation for sure. There is a strong case to be made for Durant Westbrook averaged a triple double that's impressive too. The thing that puts Curry over the others for me. There has never been a Steph Curry and there is no one like him. If we had a draft and I had the 2nd pick I'm taking Curry and not looking back. 

 

Curry has changed the game. He has handles that you see in a street game. He has it on a string  behind the back between the legs going beteeen 3 people to knock down an off balance 3. He will pull up 5 feet behind the line knock down a step back trey. No one has taken advantage of the extra point like this kid.  No one has had the combination of handles, deadly jump shot and killer instinct. 

 

The guy has turned a 27 foot jump shot into a good shot. You can't pick him up from above the top of the key. You better be up on him as he comes across half court. It only takes an inch happens in the blink of an eye. He will put it up from anywhere. He's not doing it at the end of the quarter slhot clock or game. He's doing all day everyday. He looks like a skinny 15 year old. The kid is in another world.

 

The courts used to be full of kids wanting to dunk. They take off from the ft line to throw down the J Glide. Tomgues are hanging out to air walk like Mike. They'd play on 8 foot rims before practice. I know I did and I saw it as a coach. Take a look what is happening these days. It's all about the long ball that's all about Curry. 

I like Curry as well and Have him 3rd, so to have him 2nd isn't wrong thinking IMO. Curry is definitely the best 3 point shooter I have ever seen and I never thought I would see anyone better than Reggie at shooting those.

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On 7/7/2017 at 10:43 PM, akcolt said:

How can you say that? The NBA wasn't a star driven league when MJ was in it? Bird Magic? 

Interesting that those 3 were all drafted with a top 10 draft pick.

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