Patience

[BNS]

News hits the internet each day regarding Peyton Manning. And, that news can differ a little or a lot.

* Last week he was retiring one day and the next he was medically cleared to play.

* I've heard his contract can be renegotiated, and I've heard it can't.

* I've heard the March 8th bonus date can be changed by mutual agreement, and I've heard it can't.

* I've heard he's getting released, and I've heard we're keeping him.

* I've heard we're going to trade him, heard we can't trade him and heard we aren't trading him

* I've heard Irsay won't let the team physician clear him in order to gain some leverage when Irsay releases PM...I've heard Irsay doesn't want the team physician to clear him, because if he does, then PM can't rehab at the team facility, so Irsay is doing PM a favor.

* I've heard from teammates who've seen him throw is that he has up to 90% velocity, but I've heard that's only for short passes

* I've NOT heard anything from PM or anyone with the Colts tell us in specifics how his rehab is progressing...I've heard the neck is sound and healed, but there's no real information on his throwing abilities and throwing strength. I'm sure there's good reason from Peyton's and Irsay's perspectives for this lack of information.

* Who are all of these "sources" leaking true or false information? I know journalists don't like to reveal their sources, but you would think after so much misinformation has been attributed to those sources that the media would only go to the folks who know what's going on. If those folks don't want to talk, then don't speculate or trust information from someone who doesn't really know what PM or Irsay are thinking..

* I'm going to wait and see what happens, then I'll know 100% of what happens, instead of speculating or listening to the sources.

* The only things I'll believe are direct quotes from Irsay and Manning.

* There are so many possible scenarios, so for me, I'll be patient and see what happens, and support my team regardless of what happens.

Sorry for the length of this...I haven't commented on other posts, because the "facts" change daily. Helped me to list things here in one place.

[UndecidedFrog]

Very good post. I agree entirely that the best policy at this point is to wait and see what unfolds and when it unfolds.

I would add only two other categories of sources to trust other than PM and Mr. Irsay. They are: 1) Tom Condon (PM's agent) and 2) the doctors, trainers and coaches in the Colts organization that are responsible for monitoring PM's rehab progress, and for reporting to Mr. Irsay those findings.

[BNS]

I would add only two other categories of sources to trust other than PM and Mr. Irsay. They are: 1) Tom Condon (PM's agent) and 2) the doctors, trainers and coaches in the Colts organization that are responsible for monitoring PM's rehab progress, and for reporting to Mr. Irsay those findings.

I agree.

[doogansquest]

Smartest thread in a long time. I think it should be stickied until the Draft.

*NOTE: The reason I say the Draft instead of March 8, is because Manning may be released then, only to be resigned under the terms of a new contract.

[BNS]

Smartest thread in a long time. I think it should be stickied until the Draft.

*NOTE: The reason I say the Draft instead of March 8, is because Manning may be released then, only to be resigned under the terms of a new contract.

Thanks...can that happen?

[HungarianColtsFan]

Very good post.

I hope not only fans are reading this...

[betheafan41]

News hits the internet each day regarding Peyton Manning. And, that news can differ a little or a lot.

* Last week he was retiring one day and the next he was medically cleared to play.

* I've heard his contract can be renegotiated, and I've heard it can't.

* I've heard the March 8th bonus date can be changed by mutual agreement, and I've heard it can't.

* I've heard he's getting released, and I've heard we're keeping him.

* I've heard we're going to trade him, heard we can't trade him and heard we aren't trading him

* I've heard Irsay won't let the team physician clear him in order to gain some leverage when Irsay releases PM...I've heard Irsay doesn't want the team physician to clear him, because if he does, then PM can't rehab at the team facility, so Irsay is doing PM a favor.

* I've heard from teammates who've seen him throw is that he has up to 90% velocity, but I've heard that's only for short passes

* I've NOT heard anything from PM or anyone with the Colts tell us in specifics how his rehab is progressing...I've heard the neck is sound and healed, but there's no real information on his throwing abilities and throwing strength. I'm sure there's good reason from Peyton's and Irsay's perspectives for this lack of information.

* Who are all of these "sources" leaking true or false information? I know journalists don't like to reveal their sources, but you would think after so much misinformation has been attributed to those sources that the media would only go to the folks who know what's going on. If those folks don't want to talk, then don't speculate or trust information from someone who doesn't really know what PM or Irsay are thinking..

* I'm going to wait and see what happens, then I'll know 100% of what happens, instead of speculating or listening to the sources.

* The only things I'll believe are direct quotes from Irsay and Manning.

* There are so many possible scenarios, so for me, I'll be patient and see what happens, and support my team regardless of what happens.

Sorry for the length of this...I haven't commented on other posts, because the "facts" change daily. Helped me to list things here in one place.

I agree 100 % with what you said. all of this is just speculation to throw us colt fans off and get us talking everything but what is really going on. I have pretty much made it to where when ever i hear anything about PM i come to the colts website or on twitter to see what irsay says.

[betheafan41]

Very good post. I agree entirely that the best policy at this point is to wait and see what unfolds and when it unfolds.

I would add only two other categories of sources to trust other than PM and Mr. Irsay. They are: 1) Tom Condon (PM's agent) and 2) the doctors, trainers and coaches in the Colts organization that are responsible for monitoring PM's rehab progress, and for reporting to Mr. Irsay those findings.

id agree, but i dont. not sayng what you said is bad because its not but i wouldnt even go as far as trusting mannings agent or even the doctors trainers and coaches. i wont believe anything unless Irsay or PM him self says it. but i guess Irsay would only say it if the doctors,trainers and coaches tell him lol. so i guess i only disagree about the agent part lol. and im sure all of you can agree PM dad is by far the biggest contributor to false information as the rest of " undisclosed sources ".

[coltsblue1844]

Thanks...can that happen?

yup...if we dont pay the $28 million option, he becomes an unrestricted free agent, free to sign with any team he likes, including us

[BNS]

yup...if we dont pay the $28 million option, he becomes an unrestricted free agent, free to sign with any team he likes, including us

Thanks for the info...wasn't sure if that could happen. Now that I think about it, teams do release players and then re-sign them that same season. Puts a new wrinkle in things.

[Rybono]

I agree 100 % with what you said. all of this is just speculation to throw us colt fans off and get us talking everything but what is really going on. I have pretty much made it to where when ever i hear anything about PM i come to the colts website or on twitter to see what irsay says.

Sometimes I wonder, with how much Irsay listens to the teams fans and his critics, that we don't negatively affect the outcome of the circumstance simply by the fanbases mood. Which could all be based on some false ESPN media spin generated to create controversy. Do we affect Irsay's thoughts and decisions on the organization? Could, for example, Irsay ultimately take the side of Luck/Rebuilder position simply because their social media voice is so loud (which in many ways includes ESPN)? Is the thought of acceptance of change creeping into Irsay's head because of the input he gets from news outlets, twitter, and fan sites?

Are some of the fans pulling an Inception on Irsay?

Let me know if I'm getting my point across there, it hurt my brain to try to decribe what I was thinking.

[gspdx]

Listen to Rob Lowe.

[UndecidedFrog]

id agree, but i dont. not sayng what you said is bad because its not but i wouldnt even go as far as trusting mannings agent or even the doctors trainers and coaches. i wont believe anything unless Irsay or PM him self says it. but i guess Irsay would only say it if the doctors,trainers and coaches tell him lol. so i guess i only disagree about the agent part lol. and im sure all of you can agree PM dad is by far the biggest contributor to false information as the rest of " undisclosed sources ".

You have a right to disagree,

I included Condon, because he is legally PM's representative (and some say his mouthpiece).

[BNS]

* The only things I'll believe are direct quotes from Irsay and Manning.

I'm quoting myself here, so that makes me a reliable source to myself...LOL.

I may want to put a disclaimer on this statement, because I recall Albert Pujols saying he wanted to play his entire career in St. Louis. I know this situation is a bit different, since PM is not a free agent at the moment.

The thought of losing Albert Pujols from my baseball team and Peyton Manning from my football team within months of each other is depressing.

[UndecidedFrog]

Thanks for the info...wasn't sure if that could happen. Now that I think about it, teams do release players and then re-sign them that same season. Puts a new wrinkle in things.

Now for the full disclosure portion of it...If that happens, the Colts will suffer an immediate $10.4MM hit to the salary cap for 2012. Any new contract, depending on structure will just add on top of that. All things equal, the Colts will be at a $10.4MM cap disadvantage (compared to the other teams) when negotiating a new contract with PM.

I am only providing the above information to fully disclose the consequences of such a scenario. I am not being a Debbie Downer by providing it.

[BNS]

Now for the full disclosure portion of it...If that happens, the Colts will suffer an immediate $10.4MM hit to the salary cap for 2012. Any new contract, depending on structure will just add on top of that. All things equal, the Colts will be at a $10.4MM cap disadvantage (compared to the other teams) when negotiating a new contract with PM.

I am only providing the above information to fully disclose the consequences of such a scenario. I am not being a Debbie Downer by providing it.

I appreciate the information....gotta be realistic.

[Rybono]

Now for the full disclosure portion of it...If that happens, the Colts will suffer an immediate $10.4MM hit to the salary cap for 2012. Any new contract, depending on structure will just add on top of that. All things equal, the Colts will be at a $10.4MM cap disadvantage (compared to the other teams) when negotiating a new contract with PM.

I am only providing the above information to fully disclose the consequences of such a scenario. I am not being a Debbie Downer by providing it.

What's his cap hit next year if he is allowed to take the bonus and continue on? 16-17 mill? If that's the case, he could still restructure to make a hit of 1-6 mill for 2012 and still make a difference. If he couldn't reduce his hit in a new contract to those dollar amounts, then it wouldn't be worth it, obviously.

[UndecidedFrog]

What's his cap hit next year if he is allowed to take the bonus and continue on? 16-17 mill? If that's the case, he could still restructure to make a hit of 1-6 mill for 2012 and still make a difference. If he couldn't reduce his hit in a new contract low enough, then it wouldn't be worth it, obviously.

Yes, what you say is true. However, if you compare the perspectives of the Colts versus another NFL team, you will see the difference:

Colt's perspective of a new contract that hits the 2012 salary cap at $6.6MM = neutral to old contract's cap hit of $17MM.

Another NFL team's perspective of a new contract that hits the 2012 salary cap at $6.6MM = only $6.6MM hit to the salary cap for PM.

IOW, another NFL team has an additional $10.4MM worth of cap room with which to negotiate to make a better offer to PM than the Colts.

[presto123]

Listen to Rob Lowe.

What if Rob Lowe turns out to be right down the road. Does he still get credit for breaking the story? LOL

[UndecidedFrog]

What if Rob Lowe turns out to be right down the road. Does he still get credit for breaking the story? LOL

ESPN will hire him to replace Schefter.

[Coffeedrinker]

Smartest thread in a long time. I think it should be stickied until the Draft.

*NOTE: The reason I say the Draft instead of March 8, is because Manning may be released then, only to be resigned under the terms of a new contract.

That may happen but then his signing bonus that he got when he signed the contract would be accelerated to this year, so I'm not sure it would save much.

[Portage Coltfans]

good thread, not as action packed as some others. but probably more healthy

[Rybono]

Yes, what you say is true. However, if you compare the perspectives of the Colts versus another NFL team, you will see the difference:

Colt's perspective of a new contract that hits the 2012 salary cap at $6.6MM = neutral to old contract's cap hit of $17MM.

Another NFL team's perspective of a new contract that hits the 2012 salary cap at $6.6MM = only $6.6MM hit to the salary cap for PM.

IOW, another NFL team has an additional $10.4MM worth of cap room with which to negotiate to make a better offer to PM than the Colts.

Yes, you are definitely right, this will give an advantage to another team if they were able to sign him. However, I guess that's the real question, does Peyton truely want to stay in Indy. If yes, they could save a bit of cap hit by restructuring. If no, Peyton will probably command top dollar anyways (Given he is healthy at signing).

[UndecidedFrog]

Yes, you are definitely right, this will give an advantage to another team if they were able to sign him. However, I guess that's the real question, does Peyton truely want to stay in Indy. If yes, they could save a bit of cap hit by restructure, if no, one team is going to get a heck of a deal (unless Peyton is healthy enough to ask for market value).

We don't know. As the OP suggested, it is best to wait and see how this all plays out. Maybe the scenario you are thinking of, does not happen at all!

[Rybono]

We don't know. As the OP suggested, it is best to wait and see how this all plays out. Maybe the scenario you are thinking of, does not happen at all!

Madness!!!!!

[UndecidedFrog]

Madness!!!!!

Indeed.

[JSDiamond]

Irsay's first concern is the bottom line, period; and he already said that Peyton's health and desire to remain a Colt will make it so. His recent roster moves are intended to ease liability (the costs). As far as the contract restructure goes, Peyton and other Colts players have voluntarily done so in the past to make signings and resignings easier on the organization. Peyton is class, he will do what must be done.

Peyton meanwhile is rehabbing. I have gone through nerve rehab myself, and from personal experience I can tell you it takes time. The damaged nerves not only must heal, they must re-learn and also learn to re-route signals. September of 2010 and counting for me, and I'm about 90%. Not bad considering I don't have personal trainers, or a top notch team of doctors and therapists I can call whenever. If Peyton says he's on track, I believe him.

Like it's been posted already, the alleged journalists on the sports desks are trying to cause drama.

[GoColts8818]

Irsay's first concern is the bottom line, period; and he already said that Peyton's health and desire to remain a Colt will make it so. His recent roster moves are intended to ease liability (the costs). As far as the contract restructure goes, Peyton and other Colts players have voluntarily done so in the past to make signings and resignings easier on the organization. Peyton is class, he will do what must be done.

Peyton meanwhile is rehabbing. I have gone through nerve rehab myself, and from personal experience I can tell you it takes time. The damaged nerves not only must heal, they must re-learn and also learn to re-route signals. September of 2010 and counting for me, and I'm about 90%. Not bad considering I don't have personal trainers, or a top notch team of doctors and therapists I can call whenever. If Peyton says he's on track, I believe him.

Like it's been posted already, the alleged journalists on the sports desks are trying to cause drama.

First of all glad to hear you are getting better!

Still I think you laid out what the fear is here. You said you had your surgery in September of 2010 and it's now February of 2012. That's almost a year and half after surgery and you still don't have 100% of your nerve back. If it takes that long for Peyton Manning that means he wouldn't be healthy till towards the end of this coming season.

I don't know if the Colts feel like it's a smart move to commit to Peyton Manning for him to miss most of another season. It just doesn't make sense because you will still take Luck (you'd have to take him or RG3 at that point because you are going to need a QB) and play him for most of a year to just bench them for Peyton Manning when he hasn't played in almost two years?

I want Peyton back and more importantly I just want him healthy as a human. With that said I don't think it makes sense to bring him back if you think he's going to miss time this sesaon.

From what I understand about the nerve thing and if I am wrong please say so because clearly you would know more about this than I would it doesn't matter what kind of trainers or doctors you have for the nerve. It's going to comeback at it's own pace and no one knows when that will be, how much it will be, or if it will even come back at all. I got that from a doctor I heard being interviewed about it just to be clear it wasn't like from a sports media person trying to stir the pot which I agree is going on to an extent.

[JTcardscolts]

I'm quoting myself here, so that makes me a reliable source to myself...LOL.

I may want to put a disclaimer on this statement, because I recall Albert Pujols saying he wanted to play his entire career in St. Louis. I know this situation is a bit different, since PM is not a free agent at the moment.

The thought of losing Albert Pujols from my baseball team and Peyton Manning from my football team within months of each other is depressing.

I recall that day...it was not a very good one, that same day they started speculating about Peyton too...

I will say in AP defense that he was due that money along time ago and greedy bill Dewitt(?) didn't want to fork it up...

I'll stop now cause I can go on forever...

[JTcardscolts]

Sometimes I wonder, with how much Irsay listens to the teams fans and his critics, that we don't negatively affect the outcome of the circumstance simply by the fanbases mood. Which could all be based on some false ESPN media spin generated to create controversy. Do we affect Irsay's thoughts and decisions on the organization? Could, for example, Irsay ultimately take the side of Luck/Rebuilder position simply because their social media voice is so loud (which in many ways includes ESPN)? Is the thought of acceptance of change creeping into Irsay's head because of the input he gets from news outlets, twitter, and fan sites?

Are some of the fans pulling an Inception on Irsay?

Let me know if I'm getting my point across there, it hurt my brain to try to decribe what I was thinking.

I get what your saying 100% the media plays a big role in the decision making in today's world, if people hear something over and over again, it goes from rumor, to where there smoke there's fire, to it must be a fact.

[JSDiamond]

GoColts8818 Thank you, I'm grateful to God for every day. And you're exactly correct. My doctor said the same thing to me, to wit: Recovery time is at a different pace for different people. And I've been rehabbing entirely on my own. Peyton on the other hand is a trained athlete and he has the best medical support; so, I'm going to stick with seeing the glass as half full.

JTcardscolts I agree with you 100% with the caveat being that successful businessmen --like Irsay for example, might hear the talk, but they're not swayed by it. People on that level see a much bigger picture. Polian was that kind of decision. I mean seriously, does anyone actually believe Grigson is an upgrade? In that vein I wouldn't be so certain of Luck or Griffin either; but that's another thread.

[Daniel Clark]

I am very tired of negative reports of Peyton being let go by Espn especially. My entire family loves colts football. We think that Peyton has lead franchise to the highest level. Mr. Irsay is in charge and we hope that he can understand that fans want Peyton, Brackett, Dallas and Reggie Wayne and many other older players to stay. We do not mind the losing if they give it all with heart. We fans deserve as people who have been 17 year consumers and supporters immediate assurance that Peyton will play until he can not. My family actually lives by this motto God , Family , Country , Colts. I am telling Mr. Irsay that Indiana has the spirit of loyalty. Fans will not endorse colts if Peyton is let go. You will lose at least 50% of fan base for at least first year. We the fans blame Pollian and Caldwell for the destruction of the perfect season. We the FANS BLAME CALDWELL AND POLLIAN FOR LOSS OF NEW ORLEANS VS COLTS SUPERBOWL. We will embrace as fans new quarter back but not at price of Peyton. I know my voice and our voice may be ignored. However GOD BLESS COLTS AND PEYTON AND EVEN IF YOU IRSAY FAIL US GOD BLESS YOU !!!

[ruksak]

Though the OP expresses the most viable attitude to have if you're a Colts fan, I'm not sure why this got stickied? It's just sort of an agnostic overview of every redundant thread on this forum over recent weeks.

[Sargeh2O]

If Peyton and the Colts modify his contract with incentives (he doesn't get paid if he doesn't produce), who decides when and how much he plays?

[LUVTHESHOE]

News hits the internet each day regarding Peyton Manning. And, that news can differ a little or a lot.

* Last week he was retiring one day and the next he was medically cleared to play.

* I've heard his contract can be renegotiated, and I've heard it can't.

* I've heard the March 8th bonus date can be changed by mutual agreement, and I've heard it can't.

* I've heard he's getting released, and I've heard we're keeping him.

* I've heard we're going to trade him, heard we can't trade him and heard we aren't trading him

* I've heard Irsay won't let the team physician clear him in order to gain some leverage when Irsay releases PM...I've heard Irsay doesn't want the team physician to clear him, because if he does, then PM can't rehab at the team facility, so Irsay is doing PM a favor.

* I've heard from teammates who've seen him throw is that he has up to 90% velocity, but I've heard that's only for short passes

* I've NOT heard anything from PM or anyone with the Colts tell us in specifics how his rehab is progressing...I've heard the neck is sound and healed, but there's no real information on his throwing abilities and throwing strength. I'm sure there's good reason from Peyton's and Irsay's perspectives for this lack of information.

* Who are all of these "sources" leaking true or false information? I know journalists don't like to reveal their sources, but you would think after so much misinformation has been attributed to those sources that the media would only go to the folks who know what's going on. If those folks don't want to talk, then don't speculate or trust information from someone who doesn't really know what PM or Irsay are thinking..

* I'm going to wait and see what happens, then I'll know 100% of what happens, instead of speculating or listening to the sources.

* The only things I'll believe are direct quotes from Irsay and Manning.

* There are so many possible scenarios, so for me, I'll be patient and see what happens, and support my team regardless of what happens.

Sorry for the length of this...I haven't commented on other posts, because the "facts" change daily. Helped me to list things here in one place.

Well written,I dub you forum GURU!!

[ruksak]

If Peyton and the Colts modify his contract with incentives (he doesn't get paid if he doesn't produce), who decides when and how much he plays?

Peyton. Not being a smart guy when I say that either. I would imagine that if he doesn't produce, or to a larger extent seemingly fails to shape up, he would sit in lew of another starter.

If he returns to his former iron-man status and also produces Manning-like numbers, I'm sure he would procure a great deal of money. I would also imagine that an incentive laden contract would see said incentives be quite inflated, most likely beyond anything we've seen before in such contracts.

[UndecidedFrog]

Peyton. Not being a smart guy when I say that either. I would imagine that if he doesn't produce, or to a larger extent seemingly fails to shape up, he would sit in lew of another starter.

If he returns to his former iron-man status and also produces Manning-like numbers, I'm sure he would procure a great deal of money. I would also imagine that an incentive laden contract would see said incentives be quite inflated, most likely beyond anything we've seen before in such contracts.

I disagree.

Knowing the competitor PM is, he would continue to insist on playing to attempt to rectify whatever hole he got the team into. He would never pull himself out of any game.

The coaches need to make that decision.

[ruksak]

I disagree.

Knowing the competitor PM is, he would continue to insist on playing to attempt to rectify whatever hole he got the team into. He would never pull himself out of any game.

The coaches need to make that decision.

No, when I said "Peyton would decide how much Peyton plays", I meant his performance would decide how much he plays. My bad, I worded it poorly.

[MCurtis32]

Though the OP expresses the most viable attitude to have if you're a Colts fan, I'm not sure why this got stickied? It's just sort of an agnostic overview of every redundant thread on this forum over recent weeks.

What would you guys talk about if it was not for all this redundant threading? Polian's and all the crappy coaches are gone. Superbowl is over............ Who has the fastest lawn mower in Indiana? I bet mine is faster!

[UndecidedFrog]

What would you guys talk about if it was not for all this redundant threading? Polian's and all the crappy coaches are gone. Superbowl is over............ Who has the fastest lawn mower in Indiana? I bet mine is faster!

Oh, we would still continue to talk about the rumors.

However, I think it is a good thing to remember that they are just rumors, and not the gospel truth as some would like to present it.

I also find it interesting how some fans denigrate the messenger if the message is not to their liking.