My Reason Why The First Pick Must Be Traded

[ruksak]

The Patriots have been a much better run franchise. They have better coaching. They've had a better defense. They've had a better offensive line. The Patriots have always been a much more balanced football team.

No question whatsoever on this one. The Patriot way is the better way.

Meh.....I wouldn't go to far with that. The Colts have enjoyed extraordinary success and we shouldn't put our chins in our chests because another franchise had a bit more success. 2 SB appearances and a world championship isn't something to be frowned upon.

[ruksak]

can i have this title changed to, "My reason why the first pick must be traded."?

Send her a PM and I bet she'd be happy to fix it up for ya right fast.

Also, I appreciate the concession that the title was poorly worded. I've been guilty of the same.

[JTcardscolts]

Send her a PM and I bet she'd be happy to fix it up for ya right fast.

Also, I appreciate the concession that the title was poorly worded. I've been guilty of the same.

will do

thanks

[Blue Horseshoe]

Meh.....I wouldn't go to far with that. The Colts have enjoyed extraordinary success and we shouldn't put our chins in our chests because another franchise had a bit more success. 2 SB appearances and a world championship isn't something to be frowned upon.

How many one and dones should I smile about?

Don't get me wrong. I'd rather go one and out than never make the playoffs once like the Lions but it is very disappointing the way the Colts play so much worse in the post season.

The Patriots have only gone one and done twice in the last decade.

[ruksak]

How many one and dones should I smile about?

Don't get me wrong. I'd rather go one and out than never make the playoffs once like the Lions but it is very disappointing the way the Colts play so much worse in the post season.

The Patriots have only gone one and done twice in the last decade.

...and they missed the playoffs once. But that was a freak 11-5 situation.

Anywho....the "Patriot way" has been effective, but I don't wish for us to emulate their philosophy and techniques. BB is the only man that could operate under such with that level of success.

[shecolt]

can i have this title changed to, "My reason why the first pick must be traded."?

I'll take care of that for you.

[JTcardscolts]

I'll take care of that for you.

Great!!

thanks

[gspdx]

I think the premise that there are only two options is misguided. The Colts and the Pats aren't the only teams in the league that have had some success in the last decade. There are other teams that loaded up and had an average QB and didn't do much. There are other teams that have had very good teams with good QBs and haven't done anything. Just because the Pats got a HOF QB in the 6th round doesn't mean anyone will ever do that again. Brady has proven to everyone that he should have been a 1st round pick. He should have been a #1 pick. The Pats didn't load up a team around an average QB.

So I think when you have the opportunity to take a potential HOF QB with your pick you need to do it. Now I'm not saying Luck is that guy because I don't have the skills to determine that. But if the Colts scouts and personnel guys believe there is a guy in this draft that has HOF potential as a QB you've got to take him.

[BlueShoe]

Now take your hatred for the pats out of it, and he try to be non-biased.

Are you choosing the colts, 2 SB appearances, best QB of all time (IMO), average team, always wins 10+ a year, but in trouble if your QB goes down.

Or

The pats, 5 SB appearances great QB in Brady (just threw up in my mouth), had great defense when the won their SBs, always a contender. Now defense is average at best, and rely on Brady to much...no more SB wins

Just cause you always have the #1 QB doesn't mean you have the best team, Peyton has always had to much pressure put on him to carry this team season after season....can luck handle that???? He better if Peyton is ran out of town.

If Irsay really wants to change he'll keep Peyton and trade that pick so he can rebuild this team so it can contend even if the starting QB goes down...that's real change

We have a foundation (Peyton) now let's build on it...

If Peyton is healthy....

My answer is what I have been saying since we started off 0-5 and was in the Luck sweepstakes. IF Peyton can play then we should trade that pick to Cleveland for what is now the 4th pick in the draft. IN return we would get the 4th pick, the 22nd pick, COLT MCCOY, and Cleveland's 2013 first round pick.

We can take Justin Blackmon with the 4th overall pick. Best player available (preferably OL or DL) with the 22nd pick. We will have our backup QB in McCoy.

And because this is LUCK we are talking about, we might even be able to get a lot more than that.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Just because the Pats got a HOF QB in the 6th round doesn't mean anyone will ever do that again.

Tarkenton, Fouts, and Montana were 3rd round picks.

Van Brocklin and Jurgenson were 4th round picks.

Waterfield was a 5th round pick.

Unitas was a 9th round pick who got cut.

Staubach was a 10th round pick.

Warren Moon was undrafted.

Kurt Warner (not HOF but a good shot) was undrafted.

Of the 93 quarterbacks selected in the 1st round since 1967 6 are in the Hall of Fame with maybe another 6 on the way.

[Blackhawk4]

Tarkenton, Fouts, and Montana were 3rd round picks.

Van Brocklin and Jurgenson were 4th round picks.

Waterfield was a 5th round pick.

Unitas was a 9th round pick who got cut.

Staubach was a 10th round pick.

Warren Moon was undrafted.

Kurt Warner (not HOF but a good shot) was undrafted.

Of the 93 quarterbacks selected in the 1st round since 1967 6 are in the Hall of Fame with maybe another 6 on the way.

Still does not mean we will strike gold in the 6th/7th round or UFAs with a QB anytime soon.

[gspdx]

Tarkenton, Fouts, and Montana were 3rd round picks. Van Brocklin and Jurgenson were 4th round picks. Waterfield was a 5th round pick. Unitas was a 9th round pick who got cut. Staubach was a 10th round pick. Warren Moon was undrafted. Kurt Warner (not HOF but a good shot) was undrafted. Of the 93 quarterbacks selected in the 1st round since 1967 6 are in the Hall of Fame with maybe another 6 on the way.

OK - you got me. But...

By your number if the other 6 get to the HOF then 13% of 1st rounders are HOF QBs. I wonder what the % of QBs outside of 1st rounders are in the HOF?

And on you list there you have 10 QBs (Brady makes 11) that are not 1st rounders that are pretty good. Out of how many that went to the NFL as non-first rounders? I don't know.

[JoKeR]

You need alot of good fortune to be the Pats of the early 2000's. They had a balanced team and undrafted QB becomes one of the best of all time.

You really can't plan to build a team like that.

[rockywoj]

... IF Peyton can play then we should trade that pick to Cleveland for what is now the 4th pick in the draft. IN return we would get the 4th pick, the 22nd pick, COLT MCCOY, and Cleveland's 2013 first round pick.

We can take Justin Blackmon with the 4th overall pick. Best player available (preferably OL or DL) with the 22nd pick. We will have our backup QB in McCoy.

And because this is LUCK we are talking about, we might even be able to get a lot more than that.

Throw DT Phil Taylor into that equation and, given a healthy Peyton Manning, I would for sure make that trade, Cleveland willing.

[Warhorse]

If I am the fan, I wouldn't trade the past 12 years of being a Colts fan for anything, including the SB rings

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!!! This thread was started with a tittle/question that wasn't even addressed in the first post. As far as truly which one I would rather experience....I would not trade anything I experienced as a Colt fan in the last 10+ years for ANY other fans experience. There is no debate. What I experienced was related to the execution and class of the INDIANAPOLIS COLTS. Things were handled differently by a different team.

No thanks. I could not be more proud of my team.

[UndecidedFrog]

IMO, to try to rebuild a team around a 36 year old QB, whose current "health" is in question, is risky.

I think if the Pats were to hypothetically attempt to rebuild after coming off a 2-14 season, they would not rebuild around Brady either. Tom Brady is no spring chicken. He will be 35 this upcoming season, although he has no "health" issues.

[The Fish]

If every team is ready to hive up the farm for Luck why don't we want him again?

[betheafan41]

Now take your hatred for the pats out of it, and he try to be non-biased.

Are you choosing the colts, 2 SB appearances, best QB of all time (IMO), average team, always wins 10+ a year, but in trouble if your QB goes down.

Or

The pats, 5 SB appearances great QB in Brady (just threw up in my mouth), had great defense when the won their SBs, always a contender. Now defense is average at best, and rely on Brady to much...no more SB wins

Just cause you always have the #1 QB doesn't mean you have the best team, Peyton has always had to much pressure put on him to carry this team season after season....can luck handle that???? He better if Peyton is ran out of town.

If Irsay really wants to change he'll keep Peyton and trade that pick so he can rebuild this team so it can contend even if the starting QB goes down...that's real change

We have a foundation (Peyton) now let's build on it...

If Peyton is healthy....

so yout saying trade our future QB draft pick to build around a guy who is 36, and reportedly has lost 40% more of his arm strength according to cnnsi and even if healthy prob only be around for 2 more years? boy im glad you are not the owner of the colts, because you would start losing fan base in a heart beat and have would have to pick the team up an move them to L.A.

[04DarkShadowGT]

So then everyone agrees that trading the pick is the most logical thing to do???

No because the foundation you want to build the future shouldnt be built on aging concrete with quesitonable strength.

If we are going to be builing anything, do you think Manning wants to be a part of that? What if it takes 2-3 years to build a contender? Then you have a 38-39 year old QB if he even makes it that long.

[bavanlan]

I'd take the Pats team/coach with Peyton Manning on it.

Mind. Blown.

[JoKeR]

If every team is ready to hive up the farm for Luck why don't we want him again?

Because he's over rated and EVERYONE is fooled, jk lol.

[betheafan41]

way i see it is, whether all these fans who are emotionaly attatched to manning want to admit it or not, the best and most obvious decision on manning is to release him. as was said from a previous post on this thread i read a second ago by the time this team is back to playoff contention and being a superbowl contender itll be 2 or 3 years down the road, by that time manning will be 38 or 39 years old. and that is if he is still playing. sorry but Andrew Luck is the best fit. i say this all the time ill say it again, i appreciate everything manning has done for us fans and the colts and the city of Indy but its time for him to go. theres no guarentee he will even be able to play in the 2012 season. sorry but not worth losing out on one of the most nfl ready QB that will prob take another 10 years to produce.

[BOTT]

IMO, to try to rebuild a team around a 36 year old QB, whose current "health" is in question, is risky.

I think if the Pats were to hypothetically attempt to rebuild after coming off a 2-14 season, they would not rebuild around Brady either. Tom Brady is no spring chicken. He will be 35 this upcoming season, although he has no "health" issues.

it's beyond risky, it would be stupid plain and simple.

[lance.acres]

Now take your hatred for the pats out of it, and he try to be non-biased.

Are you choosing the colts, 2 SB appearances, best QB of all time (IMO), average team, always wins 10+ a year, but in trouble if your QB goes down.

Or

The pats, 5 SB appearances great QB in Brady (just threw up in my mouth), had great defense when the won their SBs, always a contender. Now defense is average at best, and rely on Brady to much...no more SB wins

Just cause you always have the #1 QB doesn't mean you have the best team, Peyton has always had to much pressure put on him to carry this team season after season....can luck handle that???? He better if Peyton is ran out of town.

If Irsay really wants to change he'll keep Peyton and trade that pick so he can rebuild this team so it can contend even if the starting QB goes down...that's real change

We have a foundation (Peyton) now let's build on it...

If Peyton is healthy....

I think what you are trying to say is that now that Brady does not have a dominant defense, much like Peyton never really has, he is facing the same problem Peyton has always had to face. Trying to carry the team on his back. If our defense was as good as Brady has had in years past then I believe the SB appearance/win scale would be more equal with the Colts and Pats.

[ruf]

.This is correct. I think what he means in the post about trading the pick is this: we have a great foundation with PM DC DF RM and a few more but what we are missing we could get by trading this pick. we can also get a backup qb in the first or 2nd rounds (if we can trade with the browns we get the 4th and 22nd picks) a qb maybe with the 22nd pick or the 2nd round 34th pick. we would be building for the future at the same time we are winning

[Coltsagent]

dynasty...for your questions...PM is my favorite, but I have a great deal of respect for Brady, I really do. My problem is the cheating. I just cant get passed it. It was an unfair advantage and even if you argue that they got nothing from it, it was at least an attempt at trying to make an unfair advantage. You also have a coach that clearly is one person with his team and personal life, then some kind of jerk with the media which makes it hard to root for him.

[indybuck]

Peyton, Eli, Ben and Rogers were 1st rounders. Brady and Brees would have been if teams had known what they would become. Elite QBs rule the roost right now. All of them seem to have better supporting casts than does PM and that is why we have a new GM.

PM has too many performance questions that will likely not be answered in time for us.

If anyone can ID that next elite QB available on the later rounds and allow is to trade let's do it. Otherwise draft luck and see what happens with PM

Tarkenton, Fouts, and Montana were 3rd round picks.

Van Brocklin and Jurgenson were 4th round picks.

Waterfield was a 5th round pick.

Unitas was a 9th round pick who got cut.

Staubach was a 10th round pick.

Warren Moon was undrafted.

Kurt Warner (not HOF but a good shot) was undrafted.

Of the 93 quarterbacks selected in the 1st round since 1967 6 are in the Hall of Fame with maybe another 6 on the way.

[Superman]

So then everyone agrees that trading the pick is the most logical thing to do???

What does this have to do with trading the pick?

[Superman]

So I think when you have the opportunity to take a potential HOF QB with your pick you need to do it. Now I'm not saying Luck is that guy because I don't have the skills to determine that. But if the Colts scouts and personnel guys believe there is a guy in this draft that has HOF potential as a QB you've got to take him.

Agreed.

[Kenny]

This is an opportunity we aven't had in awhile, not since I was in kindergarden(sp?) and im twenty now. There are many many many options that could be taken, and none of them are honestly dumb except trading the pick AND releasing manning. In this league you need a franchise QB to build around. We have a rare opportunity to rebuild a team that was built around the GOAT to transition over a year or 2 drafts to go right at it again. We can also take what we learned from mistakes with Manning and use that for Luck. Honestly I'm very intrigued by whic way Irsay will take and would be fine with either.

[Smitto]

Trading the Pick is the smartest thing the colts could ever do, ive said it a thousand times, i rather have a great defense than a great QB any time of the day... and i will even go as far as saying i would rather the colts have a 85 bears defense than peyton manning... because defense wins championships and thats what playing this game is all about... the colts would probably reach the championship game with a defense like that and Orlovsky at the helm.

[MSColtsFan]

Trading the Pick is the smartest thing the colts could ever do, ive said it a thousand times, i rather have a great defense than a great QB any time of the day... and i will even go as far as saying i would rather the colts have a 85 bears defense than peyton manning... because defense wins championships and thats what playing this game is all about... the colts would probably reach the championship game with a defense like that and Orlovsky at the helm.

When the Colts take Luck one, and a WR from Rutgers second, you might implode.... Don't have your TV on ESPN on 4/26......

[UndecidedFrog]

Trading the Pick is the smartest thing the colts could ever do, ive said it a thousand times, i rather have a great defense than a great QB any time of the day... and i will even go as far as saying i would rather the colts have a 85 bears defense than peyton manning... because defense wins championships and thats what playing this game is all about... the colts would probably reach the championship game with a defense like that and Orlovsky at the helm.

If this were 1985, I might agree with you.

However, this is 2012, and this is a different NFL, one that is passer-friendly. I think you need an elite QB to win consistently.

[Smitto]

When the Colts take Luck one, and a WR from Rutgers second, you might implode.... Don't have your TV on ESPN on 4/26......

You have no idea who the colts are gonna draft, ppl act like luck is a forgone conclusion.. i would beg to differ

[Smitto]

If this were 1985, I might agree with you.

However, this is 2012, and this is a different NFL, one that is passer-friendly. I think you need an elite QB to win consistently.

Nah Its not different at all, if you look at teams like the 49ers defense, ravens defense.. you dont see teams slinging it everywhere on them like that... of course they will have to throw but with a great defense they will minimize their attempts and take what the defense gives them... i remember a season when the colts defense were being compared to the 85 bears in through the first 5 games.. they were allowing very to little no points.. a defense like that will win you a championship.

[UndecidedFrog]

Nah Its not different at all, if you look at teams like the 49ers defense, ravens defense.. you dont see teams slinging it everywhere on them like that... of course they will have to throw but with a great defense they will minimize their attempts and take what the defense gives them... i remember a season when the colts defense were being compared to the 85 bears in through the first 5 games.. they were allowing very to little no points.. a defense like that will win you a championship.

Yes, if I only look at the 49ers and the Ravens, I won't see teams that sling it. However, I look at all 32 teams in the NFL, and I do see them sling it. But what I see may not be what you see.

What we can both see are the rules of the game and how they have evolved since 1985 to 2012. How have the rules changed to favor a passing offense? How has the pass interference foul been interpreted over that time? How has the no-touch zone evolved beyond 5 yards of the LOS? How have the rules changed to protect the passer, and how has the roughing the passer fouls been interpreted?

[MSColtsFan]

You have no idea who the colts are gonna draft, ppl act like luck is a forgone conclusion.. i would beg to differ

'If' would have been a better word choice on my part, clearly, since my attempt at humor was lost.

Oh, and the old 'defense wins championships' is great, but untrue. The Giants ranked 25th in points allowed, 27th in yards allowed, 29th against the pass, and 19th against the run. 27th in total defense. Packers 5th, Saints 25th, Steeler 1st, Giants 7th, Colts 21st. There are plenty of ways to win it all. You don't have to be a one seed, you don't have to play at home, you don't have to stop the run or run the ball. All those things were true, but not any more.

[JTcardscolts]

so yout saying trade our future QB draft pick to build around a guy who is 36, and reportedly has lost 40% more of his arm strength according to cnnsi and even if healthy prob only be around for 2 more years? boy im glad you are not the owner of the colts, because you would start losing fan base in a heart beat and have would have to pick the team up an move them to L.A.

Wow and I'm bad Irsay is horrible then what was he thinking signing a QB who only has 3 yrs left to a 5 yr deal...lost 40% arm strength? You always believe what you hear on tv...now that's funny...

But yea I would trade Luck, not our future QB you act like he's been drafted already, and build an overall better team so our future QB after Peyton, who ever it is, as a better chance to succeed in the playoffs and win more championships.

Some of you people tend to forget that it was only 2 years ago we were in the playoffs and only 3 yrs removed from playing in the SB.

[JTcardscolts]

No because the foundation you want to build the future shouldnt be built on aging concrete with quesitonable strength.

If we are going to be builing anything, do you think Manning wants to be a part of that? What if it takes 2-3 years to build a contender? Then you have a 38-39 year old QB if he even makes it that long.

Read above

[CR91]

So then everyone agrees that picking luck is the most logical thing to do???

fixed it for you