Should Peyton Stay Or Go: Various Takes

[KyFan18]

Was watching ESPN, they had Dilfer, Young, and Jaworski discusses Peyton's future in Indy. Says a Peyton Manning at 90% is better than Luck and that it would be best for "the horseshoe" for the Colts to keep Peyton in Indy.

Dilfer: Manning will probably be gone, but the Colts SHOULD keep him and trade the pick to build around him.

Jaws: Time for Colts to move on from Manning and go with a younger QB.

Young: Doesn't think Peyton can play right now, but if he proves he can play in the next 30 days, the Colts should draft him and pick Luck, as they would benefit from having both (just like the 49ers with him and Montana and GB with Rodgers and Favre). Doesn't think the 28 million dollars is a big deal in today's NFL economy. Thinks Peyton won't be back in Indy though.

[coltsfanej]

I think like Dilfer. I want Peyton back if healthy and with all the picks we could get we could really fill a lot of holes that way in 4 years when Peyton is gone we will have more solid team that will only need a QB.

--not saying i wouldnt still address it in the draft but I wouldnt go with Luck if Peyton is good to go. Id go with Foles at 34 or Moore in late round. Or maybe one of the others expected to go in 2nd or 3rd.

But as I have said, If Peyton is not returning I am in favor of taking Luck.

But I want Peyton if possible and would like to surround him with talent and go after another SB now.

[Portage Coltfans]

Dilfer's best point was that Andrew luck is probably not going to be the next peyton manning. Yes, he is good but he's not Peyton. You can't just dump the best QB in the game for a weak tricep and a rookie. He's going to get stronger. even a 95% peyton for 4 years is going to be awesome.

[KyFan18]

I agree with Dilfer as well.

[coltsblue1844]

.......................

[coltsblue1844]

if Peyton is healthy, he gives us the best chance to win over the next 4-5yrs... I DO think that Luck will be a very good QB, but not better than Peyton.

And if we DO trade the #1 pick, we would get multiple 1st and 2nd picks in the deal...we could get 4 players in the first two rounds this year and then still have multiple 1st and 2nd round picks next year...we could even use next year's picks to trade up and draft Matt Barkley if we want to.

While i think that Luck will be good, if we could trade the pick and end up with Justin Blackmon, David DeCastro, Dre Kirkpatrick and Dontari Poe all in the first 2 rounds this year (and we would still have rounds 3-7 to pick, also) and then trade up and get Barkley next year....well, to me, Blackmon + DeCastro + Kirkpatrick + Poe + Barkley + 4-5 more years of Peyton is worth more than Luck

[SLILLINGTON10]

i think it all sounds good in theory, but who is willing to give up pretty much two years worth of draft picks. even if i team does come forward to give up every pick for the next two years, with andrew luck as their QB i doubt that team would have a top ten draft pick next year.

[KyFan18]

i think it all sounds good in theory, but who is willing to give up pretty much two years worth of draft picks. even if i team does come forward to give up every pick for the next two years, with andrew luck as their QB i doubt that team would have a top ten draft pick next year.

Really? Because when Peyton was a rookie, we went 3-13.

[presto123]

Really? Because when Peyton was a rookie, we went 3-13.

Yeah but Andy Dalton made the playoffs this year and Luck is better than Dalton.

[MAC]

i think it all sounds good in theory, but who is willing to give up pretty much two years worth of draft picks. even if i team does come forward to give up every pick for the next two years, with andrew luck as their QB i doubt that team would have a top ten draft pick next year.

And that's indicative of the perception problem regarding Luck.

It took Peyton YEARS to become a MVP candidate. Brady was basically a game manager for all three super bowl wins. Cam Newton was tremendous this year and the Panthers are picking 8th or 9th. Peyton set all kinds of rookie records and the Colts picked 4th. The Lions picked 2nd the year after drafting Stafford. I'm sure that there are many other examples.

If Luck were traded to a team that was just a QB away from making the playoffs, that's one thing. But the odds of a rookie QB turning a lousy team around in one season - particulary one that just gave up a ridiculous number of draft picks - is pretty slim. Luck is just another prospect until he proves otherwise, and it's likely that a team like the Browns are going to be lousy until proven other wise. Particularly when stuck in that division.

[oldunclemark]

Yeah but Andy Dalton made the playoffs this year and Luck is better than Dalton.

Cincinatti was 9-8...Dalton wasn't that good..

Indy wont make the playoffs with 9-7...

[Portage Coltfans]

Yeah but Andy Dalton made the playoffs this year and Luck is better than Dalton.

that is not a fact

[Susie Q]

Yeah but Andy Dalton made the playoffs this year and Luck is better than Dalton.

Just one question how do you know Luck will be better than Dalton when he hasn't even taken a snap in the NFL?

[BProland85]

if Peyton is healthy, he gives us the best chance to win over the next 4-5yrs... I DO think that Luck will be a very good QB, but not better than Peyton.

And if we DO trade the #1 pick, we would get multiple 1st and 2nd picks in the deal...we could get 4 players in the first two rounds this year and then still have multiple 1st and 2nd round picks next year...we could even use next year's picks to trade up and draft Matt Barkley if we want to.

While i think that Luck will be good, if we could trade the pick and end up with Justin Blackmon, David DeCastro, Dre Kirkpatrick and Dontari Poe all in the first 2 rounds this year (and we would still have rounds 3-7 to pick, also) and then trade up and get Barkley next year....well, to me, Blackmon + DeCastro + Kirkpatrick + Poe + Barkley + 4-5 more years of Peyton is worth more than Luck

Well yeah I'd take all those high first round pick guys in place of Luck too. But the problem is at best we would get Cleveland's two 1sts which would only allow us to get one of those studs like Claiborne, and then with the 22nd pick we may be able to land either DeCastro or Poe. Kirkpatrick and Blackmon will not be there in the 2nd.

[Blackhawk4]

Just one question how do you know Luck will be better than Dalton when he hasn't even taken a snap in the NFL?

Cause he is psychic. He predicted the safety Brady threw in the SB 1 second before it was called. In all seriousness I'm guessing he is basing this off Lucks extremely large potential.

[COLTFAN10751]

Why did our team find a way to have patience and pay an injured and although a great player Bob Sanders millions of dollars for years while he tried to get healthy and Peyton needs to be 100 % by March 8th. just saying.

[KyFan18]

Yeah but Andy Dalton made the playoffs this year and Luck is better than Dalton.

OMG, that's true! Maybe we should just realize its impossible to predict the future an appreciate the fact that a wide array of outcomes are possible.

[MSColtsFan]

if Peyton is healthy, he gives us the best chance to win over the next 4-5yrs... I DO think that Luck will be a very good QB, but not better than Peyton.

And if we DO trade the #1 pick, we would get multiple 1st and 2nd picks in the deal...we could get 4 players in the first two rounds this year and then still have multiple 1st and 2nd round picks next year...we could even use next year's picks to trade up and draft Matt Barkley if we want to.

While i think that Luck will be good, if we could trade the pick and end up with Justin Blackmon, David DeCastro, Dre Kirkpatrick and Dontari Poe all in the first 2 rounds this year (and we would still have rounds 3-7 to pick, also) and then trade up and get Barkley next year....well, to me, Blackmon + DeCastro + Kirkpatrick + Poe + Barkley + 4-5 more years of Peyton is worth more than Luck

Suggesting Manning will be as good as he has been at 40 or 41 is as extreme as suggesting Luck will be a multiple MVP winner or lead a team to multiple Super Bowl rings. I actually think in four years Luck will give a team a better chance to win than PM. I don't think PM will be playing in the NFL at 40.

The Colts will likely never have another QB who wins four MVPs, sets all the records, etc. The debate to me is given the opportunity to draft the highest graded QB in 30 years, can you risk passing that up? More specifically, if the Colts evaluation of Luck is that he is the best prospect, and QB prospect at that, I can't believe they will pass him up. That evaluation remains to be seen. Irsay's statements, and the decision between now and 3/8 make it seem likely they go QB at one.

I'm not sure how many of you have friends who are fans of other teams, but I have friends who are fans of the Redskins, 49ers, Raiders, Vikings. When the Colts lost in Jacksonville my phone blew up with people texting me they hate me because I get to go from Manning to Luck. They don't know anything more than the rest of us, but the point is there are a lot of teams in the NFL who have never had a Manning, let alone a second chance to draft a QB graded as highly as PM. And they have all suffered through terrible QB play for years and years, and can't believe the Colts good fortune for being so terrible this year.....

I still want the best of both worlds - keep PM and draft Luck, and cap, and egos, and first overall picks sitting be darned. The realist in me understands why keeping PM will be exceptionally difficult based on the cap, PM's age, PM's health. I also think it's funny to suggest that PM is the way to go, yet simaltaneously suggest that next year the Colts can just go draft Barkley. So you're suggesting the PM led Colts go 2-14 again and the team gets the first pick? Or the Colts will without any doubt trade up to the one or two hole to get Barkley? So the Colts just go through all this again next year? And that is ok, while this isn't? Nobody likes how this went down, the timing of this, the real chance the best QB we'll likely ever see in the horseshoe could be sent packing. But it's what happens in sports, PM can't play forever even if healthy, so the question is when do you pull the trigger on the next QB, and how much value does that position have on a team? I think the Colts know the answer to that, and won't pass up Luck if they (not how Kiper, or fan polls, or how Aunt Jean at the coffee shop values Luck) think he is the best QB prospect in years too.

[coltsblue1844]

Suggesting Manning will be as good as he has been at 40 or 41 is as extreme as suggesting Luck will be a multiple MVP winner

I still want the best of both worlds - keep PM and draft Luck, and cap, and egos, and first overall picks sitting be darned. The realist in me understands why keeping PM will be exceptionally difficult based on the cap, PM's age, PM's health. I also think it's funny to suggest that PM is the way to go, yet simaltaneously suggest that next year the Colts can just go draft Barkley. So you're suggesting the PM led Colts go 2-14 again and the team gets the first pick? Or the Colts will without any doubt trade up to the one or two hole to get Barkley? So the Colts just go through all this again next year? And that is ok, while this isn't? Nobody likes how this went down, the timing of this, the real chance the best QB we'll likely ever see in the horseshoe could be sent packing. But it's what happens in sports, PM can't play forever even if healthy, so the question is when do you pull the trigger on the next QB, and how much value does that position have on a team? I think the Colts know the answer to that, and won't pass up Luck if they (not how Kiper, or fan polls, or how Aunt Jean at the coffee shop values Luck) think he is the best QB prospect in years too.

Several QBs have had outstanding seasons at 38-40yrs of age...Peyton is only 35 right now and will turn 36 in March

No, i wasnt expecting us to go 2-14 again next year...i was saying that IF we traded the #1 pick this year, we could get all of those players AND have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds next year, which would make it pretty easy to trade up for a QB.

I ALSO have said several times that i would only do this IF Peyton is healthy and is our starter for the next few seasons...otherwise, i would take Luck.

[coltsblue1844]

Well yeah I'd take all those high first round pick guys in place of Luck too. But the problem is at best we would get Cleveland's two 1sts which would only allow us to get one of those studs like Claiborne, and then with the 22nd pick we may be able to land either DeCastro or Poe. Kirkpatrick and Blackmon will not be there in the 2nd.

I agree that Blackmon wont be there in the 2nd, thats why i had him listed as the first one we would pick, followed by DeCastro...

I also think that it IS possible that Kirkpatrick and Poe are there at the top of the 2nd round.

[Blackhawk4]

I agree that Blackmon wont be there in the 2nd, thats why i had him listed as the first one we would pick, followed by DeCastro...

I also think that it IS possible that Kirkpatrick and Poe are there at the top of the 2nd round.

Of course it is possible, but it is extremely unlikely Kirkpatrick falls out of the 1st round. Poe yes, but Kirkpatrick is arguably a top 15 player in the draft. To think he could fall in the 2nd round, when Janoris Jenkins could go in the 1st (Even with his issues at Florida etc.) is ludicrous.

[luvdacolts67]

I think all this depends on what Peyton wants. Does he want to win a SB more than finish his career in Indy? No way the Colts win a SB in the next 3 years. They are rebuilding which is what they need to do. Like some people on here , they should have made these moves 5 to 6 years ago. Some of us have been saying this team is not that good for years. I really like Pagano and we have to take Luck. He will never be as good as Peyton but if this team does what I think it is, he wont need to be. I would like to see Peyton win another SB. I will root for him and buy his jersey where ever he goes. He is the greatest of all time and a class act. I would support him no matter what he decides.

[MSColtsFan]

Several QBs have had outstanding seasons at 38-40yrs of age...Peyton is only 35 right now and will turn 36 in March

No, i wasnt expecting us to go 2-14 again next year...i was saying that IF we traded the #1 pick this year, we could get all of those players AND have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds next year, which would make it pretty easy to trade up for a QB.

I ALSO have said several times that i would only do this IF Peyton is healthy and is our starter for the next few seasons...otherwise, i would take Luck.

Assuming Cleveland would trade two first round picks this year, plus a second, and their first next year (and maybe more? You include their 2013 second round pick too?) to move up three spots I think is flawed. Cleveland may be done with McCoy, but they could still get RG3 where they are, plus add another weapon at 22. Or, if they think RG3 could go at 2 or 3, they can give up far less to move up to the Rams or Vikings spot than going to number one. Or better yet, keep McCoy and use those picks to add mulltiple weapons. Know why McCoy isn't playing well? They have no offensive weapons. None. Luck and nobody and no picks in the second round in 2012 and no first or seccond rounders in 2013 makes zero sense. Like you seem to want PM and a windfall of picks, I bet there are Browns fans hoping RG3 lasts until 4, and they are busy discussing WR value at 22.

Here is a draft pick value chart:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

Picks 4, 22, and 36 are worth more than the first overall pick. Cleveland won't be handing over next years first round pick. The Colts might get 4, 22, and Cleveland's second rounder next year, but that would be it. There won't be a treasure chest of picks and players at the end of the Luck rainbow. It just won't happen. Ricky Williams isn't available at the 6 spot in this draft, and Mike Ditka is working for ESPN. I think this is the biggest flaw in the trade the pick debate. I think those who are supporting that route are over-valuing the return by substantial amounts.

[JoKeR]

I think all this depends on what Peyton wants. Does he want to win a SB more than finish his career in Indy? No way the Colts win a SB in the next 3 years. They are rebuilding which is what they need to do. Like some people on here , they should have made these moves 5 to 6 years ago. Some of us have been saying this team is not that good for years. I really like Pagano and we have to take Luck. He will never be as good as Peyton but if this team does what I think it is, he wont need to be. I would like to see Peyton win another SB. I will root for him and buy his jersey where ever he goes. He is the greatest of all time and a class act. I would support him no matter what he decides.

I think you might be stuck on semantics a little. Rebuilding doesn't necessarily mean the Colts are going to completely rebuild. It might just mean the F.O. while adding talent to the roster and cutting the weak links.

[luvdacolts67]

I think they are changing the whole direction of the team. I just dont think they will be serious contenders for a few years. Peyton only has 3 good years left.

[UndecidedFrog]

I think you might be stuck on semantics a little. Rebuilding doesn't necessarily mean the Colts are going to completely rebuild. It might just mean the F.O. while adding talent to the roster and cutting the weak links.

Rebuilding means whatever Jim Irsay wants it to mean. Same with the word healthy.

We will learn soon enough what Mr. Irsay means by these terms when we witness what happens.

[BOTT]

i vote for jaws. if i'm manning i wouldnt wanna play for the colts anyway...colts don't have the talent to win the sb. with the roster the texans have the colts would be lucky to make the playoffs with manning.

[Superman]

Young: Doesn't think Peyton can play right now, but if he proves he can play in the next 30 days, the Colts should draft him and pick Luck, as they would benefit from having both (just like the 49ers with him and Montana and GB with Rodgers and Favre). Doesn't think the 28 million dollars is a big deal in today's NFL economy. Thinks Peyton won't be back in Indy though.

If anyone could say that a highly rated QB prospect should sit behind a legendary veteran and have some credibility to their words, Steve Young would be the guy. This is why I've maintained that the false dichotomy of Manning and Luck is not the issue here. Maybe the money is the issue. The health is definitely at issue. But the two can co-exist, and I'm of the opinion that Luck would be better of for it.

There will be people, especially bloggers, who look to discredit what Young is saying here, but I think he's more qualified to speak to that issue that anyone else in NFL history.

[Superman]

Rebuilding means whatever Jim Irsay wants it to mean. Same with the word healthy.

We will learn soon enough what Mr. Irsay means by these terms when we witness what happens.

Nonetheless, the idea that you have to completely gut the team is misguided. In many ways, the team has already been rebuilt. You could bring back the exact same players next season, but this would be a much different team, I'm sure. New front office people, new coaches, that's pretty extensive. Especially for a team that hasn't beaten the rugs out like this in 14 years.

[UndecidedFrog]

Nonetheless, the idea that you have to completely gut the team is misguided. In many ways, the team has already been rebuilt. You could bring back the exact same players next season, but this would be a much different team, I'm sure. New front office people, new coaches, that's pretty extensive. Especially for a team that hasn't beaten the rugs out like this in 14 years.

I have my idea what rebuilding means, and you have yours. The point is that neither matters. It is what Irsay means that will be translated into reality. And all we can do is watch.

[Superman]

I have my idea what rebuilding means, and you have yours. The point is that neither matters. It is what Irsay means that will be translated into reality.

Don't be obtuse.

Irsay may want to completely gut the team. That doesn't mean that, if he stopped short in any way, that he would have not actually done a "rebuild." The extent to which he wants to rebuild is undetermined at this point, at least to us. But if he were to keep Manning, or any of the other veteran players, it doesn't mean he hasn't rebuilt.

[UndecidedFrog]

Don't be obtuse.

Irsay may want to completely gut the team. That doesn't mean that, if he stopped short in any way, that he would have not actually done a "rebuild." The extent to which he wants to rebuild is undetermined at this point, at least to us. But if he were to keep Manning, or any of the other veteran players, it doesn't mean he hasn't rebuilt.

I really don't care about the technicality of the actual definition of what is or what is not a rebuild. I care about how Irsay is defining it.

If Irsay claims that the team is in a rebuilding mode, and all that happens is the firing of the waterboy, then that is exactly what he meant by it. However, we know for a fact that so far in the rebuilding mode, he has replaced the GM, the HC, and most of the coaching staff. We do not know how much (if any) changes there will be to the players roster at this time. I am waiting to see what he does.

[The Fish]

Steve Young is a smart guy, and one of my very favorite athletes, his take is closest to mine.

[UndecidedFrog]

I used to be with Dilfer, if PM was back 100%, and the management projected that he would last another 4 years.

Now, even if PM returns to 100%, I am in favor of Jaws' position. PM will probably not play beyond his 40th birthday, even if he returns successfully from rehab. The best interest of the team is to rebuild for the long term success with a QB of the future. A 36 year old QB cannot be that QB of the future.

[GoColts8818]

I heard a quote from Young today about this. Where he pretty much said that him and Montana hated being on the same team but they understood it and delt with it as pros because they understood it was what was best for the franchise.

This backs something up I've felt for a long time, if healthy the Colts should keep Manning and draft Luck. I've seen people (not in this thread) say that having them both on the sameteam isn't fair to them. This isn't about doing what is fair for Luck or Manning it's about doing what is right for the team. To me that's having the best QB to maybe ever play in Peyton Manning (again if healthy) trying to win a ring before the end of his career and teaching Luck as well so that when Manning is done Luck steps in right away like Young did.

[Flash7]

If anyone could say that a highly rated QB prospect should sit behind a legendary veteran and have some credibility to their words, Steve Young would be the guy. This is why I've maintained that the false dichotomy of Manning and Luck is not the issue here. Maybe the money is the issue. The health is definitely at issue. But the two can co-exist, and I'm of the opinion that Luck would be better of for it.

There will be people, especially bloggers, who look to discredit what Young is saying here, but I think he's more qualified to speak to that issue that anyone else in NFL history.

I've stated this before, but we are seeing at least from Manning's camp, an improvement in Peyton's health. If Irsay is true to his word and he wants to keep a healthy Peyton on the team, then one way to do this is to sign him and draft Luck.

If we draft Luck, he knows that he will have to wait to play. However, in this scenario, he would actually get to play right away. Luck can play until Manning is 100% healthy and in game shape. This may be all the way through the preseason and maybe 4-5 games into the regular season. This will allow Luck valuable playing time, and will allow Manning time to fully recover. Also, Manning will have every incentive to teach Luck so that when he Manning returns, he has a shot at making the playoffs.

[UndecidedFrog]

I heard a quote from Young today about this. Where he pretty much said that him and Montana hated being on the same team but they understood it and delt with it as pros because they understood it was what was best for the franchise.

This backs something up I've felt for a long time, if healthy the Colts should keep Manning and draft Luck. I've seen people (not in this thread) say that having them both on the sameteam isn't fair to them. This isn't about doing what is fair for Luck or Manning it's about doing what is right for the team. To me that's having the best QB to maybe ever play in Peyton Manning (again if healthy) trying to win a ring before the end of his career and teaching Luck as well so that when Manning is done Luck steps in right away like Young did.

Such is life.

[Superman]

I really don't care about the technicality of the actual definition of what is or what is not a rebuild. I care about how Irsay is defining it.

If Irsay claims that the team is in a rebuilding mode, and all that happens is the firing of the waterboy, then that is exactly what he meant by it. However, we know for a fact that so far in the rebuilding mode, he has replaced the GM, the HC, and most of the coaching staff. We do not know how much (if any) changes there will be to the players roster at this time. I am waiting to see what he does.

All I'm saying is that people keep saying "Irsay said we're rebuilding, so that means Manning is gone," and that's not necessarily true. The front office and coaching staff have been rebuilt already. How far Irsay wants to go with a roster overhaul is unknown at this point. But even if we brought back the same exact roster as last season, we've still done a lot more "rebuilding" this season than most teams have, and more than we've done in over a decade.

I don't mean to get into a(nother) semantics debate. Just saying that we shouldn't be so rigid in our interpretation of the word rebuild.

[UndecidedFrog]

All I'm saying is that people keep saying "Irsay said we're rebuilding, so that means Manning is gone," and that's not necessarily true. The front office and coaching staff have been rebuilt already. How far Irsay wants to go with a roster overhaul is unknown at this point. But even if we brought back the same exact roster as last season, we've still done a lot more "rebuilding" this season than most teams have, and more than we've done in over a decade.

I don't mean to get into a(nother) semantics debate. Just saying that we shouldn't be so rigid in our interpretation of the word rebuild.

I agree that rebuilding does not necessarily mean to eject PM from the team. It could include it, and it could exclude it.

I still think Mr. Irsay uses terms as he defines them. We will not know the extent of what he meant by rebuilding until he is finished rebuilding. We will see soon enough, how his rebuilding will affect the player roster. We have already seen what he meant by the word on the FO and coaching staff.

That's why I think it is a mistake to interpret Mr. Irsay's use of certain terms by the dictionary definition. The dictionary definition may not apply.

Example: "Healthy" we know, does not mean the medical clearance to play football from Mr. Irsay's tweet.

[BleedingBlue]

exactly. its like hiring an expert witness at a trial. Docs will say whatever you pay them to say.

As I have been saying since day 1, Irsay's out is "his" definition of healthy.