Should Conley still be on the colts board

[MPStack]

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Wow. Not the responses I expected in this topic. You all need to wake up and stop believes that teams passions in Collins was wrong just because he ended up being clear.

 

You don't make an educated guess or trust your instincts on something as serious as a rape charge. That is just really bad business and no one with any idea of how Public Relations work would say otherwise. 

 

Unless he somehow clears this up in a day in a half, Conley is on no ones board and will be drafted by no one because that is the RIGHT thing to do. You don't "Bet" on things like this. You only make the decision if you have cold hard FACTS (which would be made available to the public in that instance) that he is 100% not guilty. It's not "he should be knocked down a few rounds" or "I just wouldn't take him in the first", it's that no NFL team should draft him in any round. Period!!!

 

Really disappointed by some of the posters in here. I don't care how much this "happens all the time and turns out to be false". You don't play around with stuff like this.

The responses are frightening.

[Defjamz26]

5 hours ago, BOTT said:

Using a late pick on him won't alter the legal process.

You're letting talent get in the way of of due process. You don't draft a potential rapist with any pick. You don't pursue Conley in any form until he is 100% clear. I'm guess you were probably one of the people who wanted the Colts to sign Greg Hardy too?

 

Using a pick on him would be selfish and extremely short sighted. But mark my words, if he isn't cleared by tomorrow you can be mad all you want, but no team will draft him.

[stitches]

I don't think we have enough information. At least I don't. If our investigators clear him, I'm OK with him being on the board.

[OffensivelyPC]

59 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

You're letting talent get in the way of of due process. You don't draft a potential rapist with any pick. You don't pursue Conley in any form until he is 100% clear. I'm guess you were probably one of the people who wanted the Colts to sign Greg Hardy too?

 

Using a pick on him would be selfish and extremely short sighted. But mark my words, if he isn't cleared by tomorrow you can be mad all you want, but no team will draft him.

Greg Hardy was different.  There was at least a judges order finding him guilty at one point in time during the legal process.  That's way more than anything we have on Conley.

[Defjamz26]

20 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Greg Hardy was different.  There was at least a judges order finding him guilty at one point in time during the legal process.  That's way more than anything we have on Conley.

And I understand that. What I don't get is the people who think what happened with Collins made teams re-think how they handle these instances. It's going to be the same situation with Conley. 

 

People are are looking at it as teams probably wishes they didn't pass on Collins but it was the right thing to do at the time. No one is going to change that strategy just because it turned out the accusations were false. Why people don't get that is where Im confused.

[KB]

4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

And I understand that. What I don't get is the people who think what happened with Collins made teams re-think how they handle these instances. It's going to be the same situation with Conley. 

 

People are are looking at it as teams probably wishes they didn't pass on Collins but it was the right thing to do at the time. No one is going to change that strategy just because it turned out the accusations were false. Why people don't get that is where Im confused.

Is it a gamble to draft him? Yes. It also a gamble with every other player. They might work out, or they won't. It's an added stipulation but if he is there in the mid rounds the gain out weighs the cost. He goes to jail and we waste a pick. Still not the end of the world. Or we grab him with a second or third and guess what we have a good bit of first round talent on our roster. We're not going to the river bowl this year so take chances to make the roster better. It's not like it's not easily fixable by signing someone else or drafting someone next year.

[csmopar]

I'm gonna say this : as a trained law enforcement investigator with 13 years experience, there's a ton of holes in the public version of this accusation. Now, that doesn't bother me as there are normally holes in every story such as this. What gives me pause and makes me question the accusation as reported is the fact the police had a suspect, they had a victim , they supposedly have a rape kit(I'm assuming it gave back positive for fluids and the hold up is the DNA), however what hasn't been mentioned is why the police hadn't sought a warrant for Conley's DNA. All they'd need is probable cause, the fact they haven't or at least it hasn't been made public that they've had contact with Conley speaks volumes to me. This means that based on whatever evidence they have or don't have , that the case isn't strong enough to get a probable cause affidavit or warrant if you will, to collect Conleys DNA.  The other possibility is that no fluids or fibers were found so it's just her word versus 3 others.

 

none of this changes the fact Conley will drop. However, the question marks in the report are big enough to make me(the non-GM) comfortable enough to pick him up at some point, risk vs reward. If he's there in the 4th where we have multiple picks, grab him. 

[jskinnz]

For the life of me, I don't see how anyone can think that he is still on the Colts' board - or any team's board.  Until his name is cleared, he will go un-drafted.  You cannot draft anyone with a potential rape charge hanging out there.  The PR alone would be a nightmare to say nothing of potentially wasting a pick.  But infinitely more important than that is what is at stake for Conley and the girl.  There are more important things than the NFL draft.

 

I am struck at how easily people are claiming gold-digger in this.  I am not dismissing that as a possibility but if this charge turns out to be true, that is an awful thing to label someone who just experienced something completely awful.  

 

And at the very least Conley showed just some awful decision making even if there was not an actual crime committed.  

[Defjamz26]

2 minutes ago, KB said:

Is it a gamble to draft him? Yes. It also a gamble with every other player. They might work out, or they won't. It's an added stipulation but if he is there in the mid rounds the gain out weighs the cost. He goes to jail and we waste a pick. Still not the end of the world. Or we grab him with a second or third and guess what we have a good bit of first round talent on our roster. We're not going to the river bowl this year so take chances to make the roster better. It's not like it's not easily fixable by signing someone else or drafting someone next year.

You make it sound so simple. "Who cares if we drafted a rapist. We waste a pick and move on." I don't think you understand the severity of the situation. You have to look at it from the view of an organization. What would it say to fans if you drafted a guy you KNOW was being investigated for rape beforehand? That you were willing to risk potentially drafting a rapist because you were desperate for the talent. That is not only horrifying but absolutely classless and pathetic on the part of any team that would do that.

 

Things like rape and murder are serious. Those aren't accusations you take lightly. No one will have made a mistake if he goes undrafted and he turns out to be innocent. You're saying take a chance on a possible rapist too lightly. If it was stealing or marijuana like Shane Ray, I'd hear you. I'll take a chance on a college who had an issue with pot, or some kid who shoplifted once no problem. But taking a chance on a guy being investigated for rape on the off chance that the accusations are false? No thanks. And every GM will say the same.

 

This isn't one of those, "take a chance" type situations. This is an "Avoid at all costs until the truth is out" situations. And that's how every NFL team will handle it.

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

You're letting talent get in the way of of due process. You don't draft a potential rapist with any pick. You don't pursue Conley in any form until he is 100% clear. I'm guess you were probably one of the people who wanted the Colts to sign Greg Hardy too?

 

Using a pick on him would be selfish and extremely short sighted. But mark my words, if he isn't cleared by tomorrow you can be mad all you want, but no team will draft him.

This is not the Greg Hardy situation...but if you said "I'm guessing you were probably one of the people who wanted the Colts to draft La'el Collins too?" I would have said "With our 7th round pick? SIGN ME UP!".

[Defjamz26]

28 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

For the life of me, I don't see how anyone can think that he is still on the Colts' board - or any team's board.  Until his name is cleared, he will go un-drafted.  You cannot draft anyone with a potential rape charge hanging out there.  The PR alone would be a nightmare to say nothing of potentially wasting a pick.  But infinitely more important than that is what is at stake for Conley and the girl.  There are more important things than the NFL draft.

 

I am struck at how easily people are claiming gold-digger in this.  I am not dismissing that as a possibility but if this charge turns out to be true, that is an awful thing to label someone who just experienced something completely awful.  

 

And at the very least Conley showed just some awful decision making even if there was not an actual crime committed.  

It's very rare that we agree but I am with you 100% on this one.

[Colts_Fan12]

10 hours ago, rock8591 said:

What if we get a draft like this?

 

1. Zach Cunningham (ILB)

2. TJ Watt (OLB)

3. Joe Mixon (RB)

4. Jourdan Lewis (CB)

4. Garene Conley (CB)

4. Caleb Brantley (DT)

 

Why the * would we take Cunningham in the 1st? 

[WarGhost21]

16 hours ago, twfish said:

Guilty until proven innocent right?

This sort of stuff I take incredibly serious and it's something that makes my blood boil and truly believe in far harsher punishment for rapist.

However after reading the police report It sounds incredibly fishy and definetly hard too believe it would hold up in court. Especially 3vs1 and her story doesn't add up. As of right now until anything else comes up he's on my board still. If he was sitting In jail right now and it wasn't a fishy story, matter of a fact even how it was leaked is fishy, I would be hoping he'd rot in that cell. 

Technically, it's "innocent until proven guilty," but I catch your drift and agree.

[DougDew]

This is not a rumor.  There is an actual police investigation.  To the people saying that a scout or a coach or a PI is going to get to the bottom of this...and not the police...its being delusional.  The NFL isn't that good.  Its going to take time to clear this up and the NFL will be waiting to hear information as well as the media and fans.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I'm gonna say this : as a trained law enforcement investigator with 13 years experience, there's a ton of holes in the public version of this accusation. Now, that doesn't bother me as there are normally holes in every story such as this. What gives me pause and makes me question the accusation as reported is the fact the police had a suspect, they had a victim , they supposedly have a rape kit(I'm assuming it gave back positive for fluids and the hold up is the DNA), however what hasn't been mentioned is why the police hadn't sought a warrant for Conley's DNA. All they'd need is probable cause, the fact they haven't or at least it hasn't been made public that they've had contact with Conley speaks volumes to me. This means that based on whatever evidence they have or don't have , that the case isn't strong enough to get a probable cause affidavit or warrant if you will, to collect Conleys DNA.  The other possibility is that no fluids or fibers were found so it's just her word versus 3 others.

 

none of this changes the fact Conley will drop. However, the question marks in the report are big enough to make me(the non-GM) comfortable enough to pick him up at some point, risk vs reward. If he's there in the 4th where we have multiple picks, grab him. 

Because if they ask Conley for DNA now, then the public will make assumptions.  If the lab has a reason for the warrant for Conely, I assume it will be forthcoming.  They may also be holding off until after the draft in order to give the kid a break in case any future test comes back negative.  Its my understanding that DNA tests take time, so the results wouldn't be back until after the draft is over.  Why not wait?  His DNA isn't going to change.

[DarkHorse]

If he's there with our last pic grab him

[Tmoney]

17 hours ago, rock8591 said:

 

Boy, why is everyone so low on Cunningham? I know there's been concerns over his skinny legs but he's 6'3'' 234 lbs, not really small for an ILB. Can easily gain 5-10 lbs. Very long arms and big hands, very good vertical and broad jump.

 

And actually has the stats...110 tackles, 20 tfl, 5 pd, etc, etc...an actual legit 3 down ILB ala Derrick Johnson.

 

The ugliest tackling form of any linebacker in this class. Watch his game vs Tennessee and you see a 2nd-3rd round prospect. He will be flat backed until he cleans it up and plays with any sort of leverage. And that's not even factoring in he's weak AF for an ILB. 

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

The ugliest tackling form of any linebacker in this class. Watch his game vs Tennessee and you see a 2nd-3rd round prospect. He will be flat backed until he cleans it up and plays with any sort of leverage. And that's not even factoring in he's weak AF for an ILB. 

You've watched hours of game film on every single draft eligible LB?   That's impressive

[Tmoney]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You've watched hours of game film on every single draft eligible LB?   That's impressive

Yeeup Thats what the ladies tell me

[Tmoney]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You've watched hours of game film on every single draft eligible LB?   That's impressive

Tell me I'm wrong tho? Yea you could find a  7th round prospect whose just as bad, but out of any LB with a similar grade who else stands straight up and catches runners into their chest like he does? 

[csmopar]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

Because if they ask Conley for DNA now, then the public will make assumptions.  If the lab has a reason for the warrant for Conely, I assume it will be forthcoming.  They may also be holding off until after the draft in order to give the kid a break in case any future test comes back negative.  Its my understanding that DNA tests take time, so the results wouldn't be back until after the draft is over.  Why not wait?  His DNA isn't going to change.

You're missing my point. As an investigator, if you have probable cause to get a warrant, you get it as quick as possible no matter who it is.  which in rape cases most of the time, it's easy to obtain if you have A: victim ID'd the suspect B: there's evidence intercourse/sexual assault took place i.e. Tramua , fluids etc in the rape kit C: Witness statements allegeding the identity of the suspect and/or video evidence

 

most of the time, if you have two of those three, a judge will sign that affidavit instantly.  This would have been asked for within days of the report, why? Because that way you can do a preliminary match within a match of hours, you can also send the samples at the same time, also simplifying the process.  You don't wait in this situation unless you have a very weak case and are doubtful. Which is why I express my doubts/concerns in this allegations at this time based . I'm not saying he didn't do it, I'm not saying he did. I'm just saying the case appears with what little is public knowledge, to be weak at the moment. 

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

You're letting talent get in the way of of due process. You don't draft a potential rapist with any pick. You don't pursue Conley in any form until he is 100% clear. I'm guess you were probably one of the people who wanted the Colts to sign Greg Hardy too?

 

Using a pick on him would be selfish and extremely short sighted. But mark my words, if he isn't cleared by tomorrow you can be mad all you want, but no team will draft him.

Due process has to do with the law, not whether I'm willing to waste a draft pick.

 

No, I didn't want Greg Hardy

 

And no, I wouldn't be mad,

[BOTT]

8 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

And I understand that. What I don't get is the people who think what happened with Collins made teams re-think how they handle these instances. It's going to be the same situation with Conley. 

 

People are are looking at it as teams probably wishes they didn't pass on Collins but it was the right thing to do at the time. No one is going to change that strategy just because it turned out the accusations were false. Why people don't get that is where Im confused.

There were no accusations against Collins.

[rock8591]

99.99% chance that the charges are false and he does not get charged, much less convicted. I'd still take him with a 1st rounder.

 

The whole thing smells incredibly like BIG FAT RAT.

[cbear]

All I can say is that if the best you can hope for in this situation is that nothing illegal happened and the guy is just plain stupid (to put himself in that situation just before the draft), that's still pretty bad IMO.  Pass.

 

 

 

[BOTT]

7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

You make it sound so simple. "Who cares if we drafted a rapist. We waste a pick and move on." I don't think you understand the severity of the situation. You have to look at it from the view of an organization. What would it say to fans if you drafted a guy you KNOW was being investigated for rape beforehand? That you were willing to risk potentially drafting a rapist because you were desperate for the talent. That is not only horrifying but absolutely classless and pathetic on the part of any team that would do that.

 

Things like rape and murder are serious. Those aren't accusations you take lightly. No one will have made a mistake if he goes undrafted and he turns out to be innocent. You're saying take a chance on a possible rapist too lightly. If it was stealing or marijuana like Shane Ray, I'd hear you. I'll take a chance on a college who had an issue with pot, or some kid who shoplifted once no problem. But taking a chance on a guy being investigated for rape on the off chance that the accusations are false? No thanks. And every GM will say the same.

 

This isn't one of those, "take a chance" type situations. This is an "Avoid at all costs until the truth is out" situations. And that's how every NFL team will handle it.

the public has the attention span of 2 day old squirrel.  If he is eventually charged the colts would probably give up his rights.  But I guess people might tweet some nasty stuff about the colts and Irsay. Oh no.

 

Tyreek Hill punched his pregnant girlfriend in the stomach multiple times.  Unfortunately, nobody cares.

 

 

[GoBlue12]

On 4/25/2017 at 6:01 PM, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

First, I would 99.9% guarantee he was high on the Colts board. Second, as big as a Buckeyes fan that I am, and as much as I would love to have him on the Colts, the risk is just way too much. Ballard would be made to look a fool, to take him early, and then everything come back on Conley. Having said that, I would bet money that everything comes back in favor of Conley, and nothing happened between him and the female. The term "gold digger" is prominent for a reason, and a guy getting ready to score millions is an easy target to a lot of young women. 

 

I remember my grandfather all through high-school, and up to the point I was going to play in college, saying for me to leave women alone as they were going to do nothing but cause me trouble. I still laugh about it today, because for the most part I listened to him back then, but to see all this crazy crap going on now, it's probably what I will tell my kids at that time in their lives.

Far too early to draw conclusions. Generalities don't predict specific cases.

[Luck is Good]

Would it be some bad PR even when Conley is proven innocent? Absolutely. But that's not the name of the game. You don't run a franchise to be liked. You run it to be successful. And it wouldn't really be that bad of PR when Conley is proven innocent now would it?

[BleedBlu8792]

23 minutes ago, GoBlue12 said:

Far too early to draw conclusions. Generalities don't predict specific cases.

 

?? On which part? Me saying the Colts shouldn't take him, or my opinion of him not being guilty of the accusation?

[Defjamz26]

33 minutes ago, BOTT said:

the public has the attention span of 2 day old squirrel.  If he is eventually charged the colts would probably give up his rights.  But I guess people might tweet some nasty stuff about the colts and Irsay. Oh no.

 

Tyreek Hill punched his pregnant girlfriend in the stomach multiple times.  Unfortunately, nobody cares.

 

 

Tell that to Ray Rice and Joe Mixon. What Hill did was wrong but it would look like nothing compared to rape. Not to mention I can't think of a single prospect to date with a pending rape or murder investigation that has gone drafted, so it's clear that you're dead wrong regardless of what you say.

 

There was basically nothing linking Collins to the murder case other than the victim being his pregnant gf and he went undrafted. You think with confirmation that Conley and the woman were at least in the same room together, along with the fact that the alleged crime was reported the same day with a rape kit done, is going to make the case with Conley different? I have no problem with anyone believing he's innocent. But you're delusional if you think he should still be drafted.

[Defjamz26]

50 minutes ago, BOTT said:

There were no accusations against Collins.

And yet still went un-drafted. Conley has been accused. There's no way he doesn't suffer the same fate.

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Tell that to Ray Rice and Joe Mixon. What Hill did was wrong but it would look like nothing compared to rape. Not to mention I can't think of a single prospect to date with a pending rape or murder investigation that has gone drafted, so it's clear that you're dead wrong regardless of what you say.

 

There was basically nothing linking Collins to the murder case other than the victim being his pregnant gf and he went undrafted. You think with confirmation that Conley and the woman were at least in the same room together, along with the fact that the alleged crime was reported the same day with a rape kit done, is going to make the case with Conley different? I have no problem with anyone believing he's innocent. But you're delusional if you think he should still be drafted.

A bit different.  Rice and Mixon were guilty.  We have no clue if Conley is.

 

What happened to the Ravens organization as a result of ray rice?  Nothing.

[BOTT]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

And yet still went un-drafted. Conley has been accused. There's no way he doesn't suffer the same fate.

Im not disputing the fact that he won't get drafted.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Tmoney said:

Tell me I'm wrong tho? Yea you could find a  7th round prospect whose just as bad, but out of any LB with a similar grade who else stands straight up and catches runners into their chest like he does? 

I don't scout players.  I certainly don't scout hundreds of eligible players.   I defer to those that do

[jvan1973]

43 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Would it be some bad PR even when Conley is proven innocent? Absolutely. But that's not the name of the game. You don't run a franchise to be liked. You run it to be successful. And it wouldn't really be that bad of PR when Conley is proven innocent now would it?

Actually,  yes,  PR is a huge part of running a billion dollar business.  

[Defjamz26]

Just now, BOTT said:

A bit different.  Rice and Mixon were guilty.  We have no clue if Conley is.

 

What happened to the Ravens organization as a result of ray rice?  Nothing.

That's because Rice was already on their roster. But they avoided criticism by cutting him as soon as the video leaked.

 

2 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Im not disputing the fact that he won't get drafted.

Fine. But I think suggesting that it wouldn't be a big deal if we drafted him and it turns out true is ridiculous. It would mean the Colts knew there was a chance he was a rapist and drafted him anyways. And based on some fickle argument that "Chicks do this stuff all the time so we thought it was probably nothing".

 

Like it or not the truth is that no team likes Bad PR. You don't have to like it but that's the truth. There's a reason no one gave Rice a second chance. Much like Mixon it was on tape, but he later came out and apologized for it. Still he didn't get picked up. Why? No one wanted to deal with the PR. Again, you can think "hurt feelings on Twitter" are nothing, but that's now how owners and GMs think. 

[jvan1973]

14 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Tell that to Ray Rice and Joe Mixon. What Hill did was wrong but it would look like nothing compared to rape. Not to mention I can't think of a single prospect to date with a pending rape or murder investigation that has gone drafted, so it's clear that you're dead wrong regardless of what you say.

 

There was basically nothing linking Collins to the murder case other than the victim being his pregnant gf and he went undrafted. You think with confirmation that Conley and the woman were at least in the same room together, along with the fact that the alleged crime was reported the same day with a rape kit done, is going to make the case with Conley different? I have no problem with anyone believing he's innocent. But you're delusional if you think he should still be drafted.

Yes,  punching a pregnant woman is fine for a draftee though.  A guy who plead guilty to the charges no less.   

[Luck is Good]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Actually,  yes,  PR is a huge part of running a billion dollar business.  

It's all fine and dandy to be respected and liked. I get that. But being successful at winning year in and year out is the model of a successful franchise

[jvan1973]

Just now, Luck is Good said:

It's all fine and dandy to be respected and liked. I get that. But being successful at winning year in and year out is the model of a successful franchise

Teams cant take the chance if there is any question on a prospect of being guilty of rape.   Can you name a team that has done such?   

 

The more info that comes out out sounds like the kid is guilty of nothing more than having hormones.   But giving him a huge contract and using a pick on him is risky on many fronts

[BOTT]

6 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That's because Rice was already on their roster. But they avoided criticism by cutting him as soon as the video leaked.

 

Fine. But I think suggesting that it wouldn't be a big deal if we drafted him and it turns out true is ridiculous. It would mean the Colts knew there was a chance he was a rapist and drafted him anyways. And based on some fickle argument that "Chicks do this stuff all the time so we thought it was probably nothing".

 

Like it or not the truth is that no team likes Bad PR. You don't have to like it but that's the truth. There's a reason no one gave Rice a second chance. Much like Mixon it was on tape, but he later came out and apologized for it. Still he didn't get picked up. Why? No one wanted to deal with the PR. Again, you can think "hurt feelings on Twitter" are nothing, but that's now how owners and GMs think. 

Yes, because what you have in quotations is exactly what I stated.......

 

good lord....I have already stated I know he won't get drafted and I understand why. I never said an NFL team will or should.  Talk about diarrhea of the mouth