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Would you trade pick 15 for Jaylon smith

Coltivated
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Superman

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8 minutes ago, Coltivated said:

Alrighty then. I'm just saying if he regains his top five potential. Could be an all pro linebacker. Might not be laughing to long

 

I didn't think Smith was a top five player before he got hurt. I was in the minority, but still... Dallas took a big chance on him in the 2nd, and it's not looking good so far. Until he proves it on the field, he's damaged goods.

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OffensivelyPC Active Roster

OffensivelyPC

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lol wth is this?  Let's take a look at how the events unfolded.

 

1) Top 5 pick.  Injures leg on last game.  

2) Questions circle about whether he'll ever be 100% again.

3) Gets drafted in the 2nd round.

4) Doctors and reports surface that he will not likely ever be 100% again.

5) Does not play a game all year around.

 

What exactly has happened here that makes you think he's worth a 15 overall?

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1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

lol wth is this?  Let's take a look at how the events unfolded.

 

1) Top 5 pick.  Injures leg on last game.  

2) Questions circle about whether he'll ever be 100% again.

3) Gets drafted in the 2nd round.

4) Doctors and reports surface that he will not likely ever be 100% again.

5) Does not play a game all year around.

 

What exactly has happened here that makes you think he's worth a 15 overall?

 

He can lift his toes!

 

6abJu2e.gif

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ColtsBlueFL Team Captain

ColtsBlueFL

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2 hours ago, Coltivated said:

Alrighty then. I'm just saying if he regains his top five potential. Could be an all pro linebacker. Might not be laughing to long

 

Unfortunately, it being so long, it is very (I mean VERY) possible it will never recover enough to discard the AFO.  He will be the first to ever play with one... And it will limit him.  Only his athleticism may allow him to play at a fairly decent level, but he won't be elite, unfortunately.

 

This is part of his equipment now...

 

http://lermagazine.com/article/controlling-drop-foot-beyond-standard-afos

 

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

lol wth is this?  Let's take a look at how the events unfolded.

 

1) Top 5 pick.  Injures leg on last game.  

2) Questions circle about whether he'll ever be 100% again.

3) Gets drafted in the 2nd round.

4) Doctors and reports surface that he will not likely ever be 100% again.

5) Does not play a game all year around.

 

What exactly has happened here that makes you think he's worth a 15 overall?

 

^^^   Yup   ^^^

Hope beyond all reason.  Look, I'm pulling for the guy but I just do not see it coming to pass.

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ColtsBlueFL Team Captain

ColtsBlueFL

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

He's going to try to play in some version of this kind of orthotic:

 

Ankle-Foot-Orthosis-Afo-Swedish-Lso-Drop

 

 

 

Is that active assist?

 

I figure he will go with some type of Active Ankle assisted orthotic.  I believe a few manufacturers are developing / making them.

 

http://www.ai.mit.edu/research/abstracts/abstracts2001/bio-machines/05blaya.pdf

 

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6 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Is that active assist?

 

I figure he will go with some type of Active Ankle assisted orthotic.  I believe a few manufacturers are developing / making them.

 

http://www.ai.mit.edu/research/abstracts/abstracts2001/bio-machines/05blaya.pdf

 

 

I hadn't heard/read that until now. I was just posting a functional sporting AFO so people understand what you're talking about, because I don't think it's understood at all.

 

An active assist orthotic seems like a performance enhancer, to me. I've made the argument before that I have a bigger problem with something like this than I do with steroids and growth hormones. My wild-eyed scenario of a player using bionic assistance is becoming more and more real...

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ColtsBlueFL Team Captain

ColtsBlueFL

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I hadn't heard/read that until now. I was just posting a functional sporting AFO so people understand what you're talking about, because I don't think it's understood at all.

 

An active assist orthotic seems like a performance enhancer, to me. I've made the argument before that I have a bigger problem with something like this than I do with steroids and growth hormones. My wild-eyed scenario of a player using bionic assistance is becoming more and more real...

 

Certainly does begin to cross into the 'gray area' it appears.  people will make a case it only helps to restore what was lost, while others deem it as helping  beyond earlier capability.

 

Interesting direction and Jaylon is driving the bus...

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22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Certainly does begin to cross into the 'gray area' it appears.  people will make a case it only helps to restore what was lost, while others deem it as helping  beyond earlier capability.

 

Interesting direction and Jaylon is driving the bus...

 

In this case, I don't see it even restoring what was lost. The technology is still very limited, I think, in comparison with full strength/health. One of the difficulties, according to the PDF you posted earlier, is having a device that helps with slap foot at the same time as drop foot, and at varying speeds (football speeds). In other words, passive and active assist. You definitely know better than I do, but I don't think this is a finished product at this time. As you said, no one has ever played football in one. 

 

But let's say I don't have drop foot, but get extra push from an active AFO. Isn't that a performance enhancer? Technically, if you have laser eye surgery, you have better than 20/20 vision, more than natural. Doesn't that help your performance? And of course, we can play this out to the extremes, but you get where I'm going. 

 

I just disagree with the blanket and arbitrary classification of performance enhancing drugs, I think we've painted with far too broad a stroke, and I don't think that sports in general should be as restrictive as they are when it comes to PEDs. I dislike the idea of advancing technology in orthotics and other physical enhancements more than I dislike the idea of a player using certain PEDs under medical supervision. And there's a double standard -- a med student who takes Adderall isn't a cheater, but a football player who takes Adderall is? It just bugs me.

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ColtsBlueFL Team Captain

ColtsBlueFL

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

In this case, I don't see it even restoring what was lost. The technology is still very limited, I think, in comparison with full strength/health. One of the difficulties, according to the PDF you posted earlier, is having a device that helps with slap foot at the same time as drop foot, and at varying speeds (football speeds). In other words, passive and active assist. You definitely know better than I do, but I don't think this is a finished product at this time. As you said, no one has ever played football in one. 

 

But let's say I don't have drop foot, but get extra push from an active AFO. Isn't that a performance enhancer? Technically, if you have laser eye surgery, you have better than 20/20 vision, more than natural. Doesn't that help your performance? And of course, we can play this out to the extremes, but you get where I'm going. 

 

I just disagree with the blanket and arbitrary classification of performance enhancing drugs, I think we've painted with far too broad a stroke, and I don't think that sports in general should be as restrictive as they are when it comes to PEDs. I dislike the idea of advancing technology in orthotics and other physical enhancements more than I dislike the idea of a player using certain PEDs under medical supervision. And there's a double standard -- a med student who takes Adderall isn't a cheater, but a football player who takes Adderall is? It just bugs me.

 

 

Good discussion points, but I'm focusing on the differences between appliances and ingestible product.

 

Whether prescribed or not, ingestible substances can and do have side effects.  Appliances typically do not.  Either a device helps / works, or it does not.  There are generally no 'side' or lasting effects.  Partaking in substances  do have an effect desired, and also uniformly accompanied by some that are not. These could be temporary, or long term.

 

Adderall (Strong stimulant) for those with true ADHD calms them out of their desire for hyperactivity.  While normal people taking the same drug become hyper focused and alert..  It is the college kids 'cheating ' way to stay awake until 3 in the morning and get their homework done.  ;-)

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Colts1324 Team Captain

Colts1324

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5 hours ago, Coltivated said:

Alrighty then. I'm just saying if he regains his top five potential. Could be an all pro linebacker. Might not be laughing to long

Yeah. But he has already sat out a whole year and the Cowboys didn't even give a first round pick for him. He is a project, and he may be out of shape. I would do a 3rd round pick in the 2018 draft or a 4th this year, but anything more would be a bad trade. I don't think he is better than any of the players we could take at 15 anyways. 

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dgambill Practice Squad

dgambill

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7 hours ago, Superman said:

6JvA7qZ.gif

 

Not a chance.

Exactly! I love the kid and hope he balls out but no. I'm not giving up a guy we have for 5 years to trade for a guy we get for only 3 years and even if it's healing might still be behind schedule to play or fully heal. Again hope for him to have a long career though!

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2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Good discussion points, but I'm focusing on the differences between appliances and ingestible product.

 

Whether prescribed or not, ingestible substances can and do have side effects.  Appliances typically do not.  Either a device helps / works, or it does not.  There are generally no 'side' or lasting effects.  Partaking in substances  do have an effect desired, and also uniformly accompanied by some that are not. These could be temporary, or long term.

 

Adderall (Strong stimulant) for those with true ADHD calms them out of their desire for hyperactivity.  While normal people taking the same drug become hyper focused and alert..  It is the college kids 'cheating ' way to stay awake until 3 in the morning and get their homework done.  ;-)

 

Totally understood, just because a doctor prescribes something doesn't mean it's "safe." But we've demonized anything on the banned list simply because it's on the banned list. An olympian can be disqualified for taking cold medicine, and then they're labeled a cheater. I think it's too much. JMO

 

No question there are people abusing certain substances, or hiding behind more innocuous substances when they're really taking more serious things (like the Adderall excuse, about which some players were clearly lying).

 

And yes, an ingestible is different from an appliance, but an appliance is still a performance enhancer, in theory. Certain swimsuits have been banned from certain competitions, being called "technological doping." Now we're talking about a potentially spring or pump assisted foot brace, which could theoretically enhance an athlete's performance. It's a stretch for football, with the starts and stops, change of direction, jumping, etc., but long distance running and other more predictable and consistent actions would potentially be enhanced by that kind of device.

 

I'm off on a tangent, for sure.

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