Dontari Poe scheduled to visit

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

 

 

 

He missed out here. Don't think he will outperform that contract in 2017. That was supposedly the Colts offer.

 

Yeesh.

[backshoulderfade]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Yeesh.

Care to elaborate. Interestes to hear your thoughts.

[Coltsfan21]

Im confused  why poe would turn down that big of an offer from us. In years past it seems every player that came in for a visit would sign. Is this franchise less desirable to play for now than in years past?

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Coltsfan21 said:

Im confused  why poe would turn down that big of an offer from us. In years past it seems every player that came in for a visit would sign. Is this franchise less desirable to play for now than in years past?

Probably not much of it was guaranteed. Another possibility - he thinks he fits better in 43 and thinks he can get more money next year as a 43 DT rather than as a 34 NT. All speculations. Maybe he just didn't want to play for us

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

Care to elaborate. Interestes to hear your thoughts.

 

I don't like the offer, first off. He doesn't sack the QB or pressure the QB enough for me to understand that yearly average. Not to mention he needs to play limited snaps, and has major injury issues. (Along the same lines, I don't understand why he wanted a one year deal. I might be missing something...)

 

Second, every contract has specifics that need to be considered. It could have had no guaranteed money beyond Year 1, making it essentially a one year deal, with options. Josina Anderson has just tweeted something to that effect, now. Based on the way the Colts have done their other contracts, they probably wouldn't have done a signing bonus, meaning cutting him in the future would have been an ever present option for the team.

 

Still, I can't see a 5 year, $60m contract (or something in that range) not paying him at least $10m in Year 1, which is what his incentives can take him to with Atlanta. And no matter how well he plays this year, I don't see a NT getting better than $12m/year. To me, a FA wanting a one year deal makes sense when he feels he's getting low balled, so he takes a prove-it deal so he can cash in the next season. What does Poe think he'll get in 2018??

 

So this doesn't make sense to me from multiple angles. I feel like Poe and the Colts were both sitting on the wrong side of the table. Poe should have been looking for the long term deal, and the Colts should have been wanting the one year deal. I'm confused.

 

I'm relieved he didn't take their offer, to be honest. 

[richard pallo]

17 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

 

 

 

He missed out here. Don't think he will outperform that contract in 2017. That was supposedly the Colts offer.

Looks like a great offer to me.  Of course she says "in neighborhood of"  "worth up to".  Nothing real concrete there but you would think the parameters are solid.  He must really think he is worth above franchise tag money or somebody has him convinced he is.  I would rather give a little smaller but similar incentive laden contract to Hankins. I think he represents the better long term value IMO. 

[stitches]

If the guaranteed money on that deal were reasonable, this might mean we might have a bit of trouble attracting the top FAs, until Ballard turns this roster around.

[#12.]

43 minutes ago, Coltsfan21 said:

Is this franchise less desirable to play for now than in years past?

It's year 6.  Luck is no longer the young, next best thing.  We're coming off back-to-back 8-8 seasons, and let's be honest, this roster is terrible.  Many of us look at the situation and think(or hope) it is temporary.  Not sure people outside of Indy view it the same.

[Coltsfan21]

7 minutes ago, #12. said:

It's year 6.  Luck is no longer the young, next best thing.  We're coming off back-to-back 8-8 seasons, and let's be honest, this roster is terrible.  Many of us look at the situation and think(or hope) it is temporary.  Not sure people outside of Indy view it the same.

This is what im getting at. Ive heard many people talk as if a free agent had to choose between someone like the raiders or us that they should chose us hands down. I dont think that is the case though. Obviously we arent as bad off as some teams, but i think indy may have lost some of the appeal it used to have.

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, Coltsfan21 said:

This is what im getting at. Ive heard many people talk as if a free agent had to choose between someone like the raiders or us that they should chose us hands down. I dont think that is the case though. Obviously we arent as bad off as some teams, but i think indy may have lost some of the appeal it used to have.

Not to sure.  Z. Brown just left Oakland and is heading to Indy. I believe.  For the most part it's all about the money.  We should know that by now.  The Dallas CB just signed with the Jets.  The Jets.  They showed him the money. 

[Coltsfan21]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Not to sure.  Z. Brown just left Oakland and is heading to Indy. I believe.  For the most part it's all about the money.  We should know that by now.  The Dallas CB just signed with the Jets.  The Jets.  They showed him the money. 

The money is what made me bring this up. It looks like we offered poe the most money but he signed with atlanta instead. (Obviously we dont know the specifics of the deal we offered) it just got me thinking.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't like the offer, first off. He doesn't sack the QB or pressure the QB enough for me to understand that yearly average. Not to mention he needs to play limited snaps, and has major injury issues. (Along the same lines, I don't understand why he wanted a one year deal. I might be missing something...)

 

Second, every contract has specifics that need to be considered. It could have had no guaranteed money beyond Year 1, making it essentially a one year deal, with options. Josina Anderson has just tweeted something to that effect, now. Based on the way the Colts have done their other contracts, they probably wouldn't have done a signing bonus, meaning cutting him in the future would have been an ever present option for the team.

 

Still, I can't see a 5 year, $60m contract (or something in that range) not paying him at least $10m in Year 1, which is what his incentives can take him to with Atlanta. And no matter how well he plays this year, I don't see a NT getting better than $12m/year. To me, a FA wanting a one year deal makes sense when he feels he's getting low balled, so he takes a prove-it deal so he can cash in the next season. What does Poe think he'll get in 2018??

 

So this doesn't make sense to me from multiple angles. I feel like Poe and the Colts were both sitting on the wrong side of the table. Poe should have been looking for the long term deal, and the Colts should have been wanting the one year deal. I'm confused.

 

I'm relieved he didn't take their offer, to be honest. 

Don't you think that his injury is a non-issue if a guy like Ballard were to offer him not only a long term deal but a ridiculously high paying longterm deal? 

That screams he is 100% confident he isn't effected by it anymore. Imagine a first year guy like Ballard giving a huge contract to a guy that has a likelihood of getting injured or severely underperforming... seems crazy imo 

I'm coompletely with you though. I don't trust it. But I am wondering how the heck Ballard can make that offer 

[Superman]

Just now, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Don't you think that his injury is a non-issue if a guy like Ballard were to offer him not only a long term deal but a ridiculously high paying longterm deal? 

That screams he is 100% confident he isn't effected by it anymore. Imagine a first year guy like Ballard giving a huge contract to a guy that has a likelihood of getting injured or severely underperforming... seems crazy imo 

I'm coompletely with you though. I don't trust it. But I am wondering how the heck Ballard can make that offer 

 

Yeah, I'll give Ballard the benefit of the doubt on the injury. If anyone knows Poe's condition, it should be Ballard.

 

I do think the contract would have had protection for the Colts in the event Poe got injured again. I don't think it was a bonafide $60m offer, big signing bonus, 30% guaranteed, etc. 

 

I'm just confused by the negotiations. Let's assume Poe doesn't think Indy is a completely terrible place to play (based on the fact that he willingly visited to discuss playing here). Why wouldn't he accept five years, $60m? What does he expect to get?

 

Someone else suggesting he wants to play in a 4-3, maybe have more opportunities to get sacks. If so, I could see him getting a slightly higher offer. Maybe Malik Jackson money?? 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, I'll give Ballard the benefit of the doubt on the injury. If anyone knows Poe's condition, it should be Ballard.

 

I do think the contract would have had protection for the Colts in the event Poe got injured again. I don't think it was a bonafide $60m offer, big signing bonus, 30% guaranteed, etc. 

 

I'm just confused by the negotiations. Let's assume Poe doesn't think Indy is a completely terrible place to play (based on the fact that he willingly visited to discuss playing here). Why wouldn't he accept five years, $60m? What does he expect to get?

 

Someone else suggesting he wants to play in a 4-3, maybe have more opportunities to get sacks. If so, I could see him getting a slightly higher offer. Maybe Malik Jackson money?? 

That's what I'm wondering. Seems to me like there's an equally likely chance he performs poorly what with being in a whole new team, scheme, mindset, etc etc. 

I'd have just accepted the poor offer(imo) from us (assuming we were the only longterm offer he got). Chances are this will blow up in his face 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't like the offer, first off. He doesn't sack the QB or pressure the QB enough for me to understand that yearly average. Not to mention he needs to play limited snaps, and has major injury issues. (Along the same lines, I don't understand why he wanted a one year deal. I might be missing something...)

 

Second, every contract has specifics that need to be considered. It could have had no guaranteed money beyond Year 1, making it essentially a one year deal, with options. Josina Anderson has just tweeted something to that effect, now. Based on the way the Colts have done their other contracts, they probably wouldn't have done a signing bonus, meaning cutting him in the future would have been an ever present option for the team.

 

Still, I can't see a 5 year, $60m contract (or something in that range) not paying him at least $10m in Year 1, which is what his incentives can take him to with Atlanta. And no matter how well he plays this year, I don't see a NT getting better than $12m/year. To me, a FA wanting a one year deal makes sense when he feels he's getting low balled, so he takes a prove-it deal so he can cash in the next season. What does Poe think he'll get in 2018??

 

So this doesn't make sense to me from multiple angles. I feel like Poe and the Colts were both sitting on the wrong side of the table. Poe should have been looking for the long term deal, and the Colts should have been wanting the one year deal. I'm confused.

 

I'm relieved he didn't take their offer, to be honest. 

 

Three points.....

 

One,  I don't believe the 5/60 offer,  not for a minute.

 

And two,  I don't believe the offer was from the Colts.       There's no logic to it.

 

Unless we offered 5/60 with almost none of it guaranteed?     What 10 Million?     

 

So, if to be believed,  we offered a 5/60 deal with some amount guaranteed, but wouldn't offer him a 1/10 deal?       How is that possible?

 

None of this adds up to me?       All these reports of teams offering longer/bigger deals and Poe saying no and wanting a 1-year deal instead.       This puzzle feels all wrong to me and has for some time.

 

I think some of this "information" is coming out of the Poe camp.    Right now, I question almost everything about this story.      Almost none of it feels believable to me...

 

Last point:    What I find MOST INTERESTING is that the two teams who knew him best, (KC & Indy) BOTH let him walk out the door.      And KC signed someone else who everyone liked to roughly the same deal that Poe ended up getting.      If KC & Indy let Poe leave,  then I'm OK with this....

 

[VaAllDay757]

I'm kinda glad that deal didn't fall through Poe is good player but he ain't busting up o-lines like that

[Superman]

31 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Three points.....

 

One,  I don't believe the 5/60 offer,  not for a minute.

 

And two,  I don't believe the offer was from the Colts.       There's no logic to it.

 

Unless we offered 5/60 with almost none of it guaranteed?     What 10 Million?     

 

So, if to be believed,  we offered a 5/60 deal with some amount guaranteed, but wouldn't offer him a 1/10 deal?       How is that possible?

 

None of this adds up to me?       All these reports of teams offering longer/bigger deals and Poe saying no and wanting a 1-year deal instead.       This puzzle feels all wrong to me and has for some time.

 

I think some of this "information" is coming out of the Poe camp.    Right now, I question almost everything about this story.      Almost none of it feels believable to me...

 

Last point:    What I find MOST INTERESTING is that the two teams who knew him best, (KC & Indy) BOTH let him walk out the door.      And KC signed someone else who everyone liked to roughly the same deal that Poe ended up getting.      If KC & Indy let Poe leave,  then I'm OK with this....

 

 

All good points. I'm prone to believe that there's something irregular about this reporting.

 

Even if they did offer a five year deal, I can't imagine that it was guaranteed beyond Year 1. 

[TomDiggs]

I have to agree with a handful of other posters who mentioned the whole 4-3 vs 3-4 idea. He visited Miami and Jacksonville and Atlanta and was tied to Oakland. None of those squads play a 3-4 much at all. Not to mention on each of them he would have had some significant talent on those lines with him. He would have likely seen a lot of one-on-one blocks that he could exploit and turn into a 6-8 sack campaign.

 

Considering the on-going trend, the only guys really getting paid are involved in the passing game. If you aren't a QB throwing it or an O-Lineman blocking for your QB or a DB impacting the passing game or a pass rusher impacting the passing game, you aren't getting paid. We saw some lesser talented WRs get nice offers this off-season. We saw many OGs get essentially good Left Tackle money. And we always see pass rushers and good DBs get some bank. So with all of that in mind, it seems rare for DL that don't put up big pass rushing numbers to get paid. Williams got his, but he was seemingly the anomaly and he got paid by his own team who knew what he was and how he fit and how much they needed him. Otherwise, DL has been pretty ho-hum. I think at the end of the day Poe is looking to go get some numbers so he can strike it big. I am glad the Colts didn't either overpay him or get a guy who would be one-and-done. Bullet dodged.

[AZColt11]

OK let's all step back, take a DEEP breath, and breathe...............

 

There, feels better now, doesn't it?

 

Look, it wasn't meant to be.  And the Falcons just may have saved us some trouble down the road.  If the report is correct, and we really did offer 5 years at $12M avg per season, then that tells me he is looking to break the friggin bank after this season and no thank you!  Let someone else deal with that mess.  Plus, it is obvious he didn't want to sign here.  I'm cool with that.  Some people like the city, some like the country, some like the woods, etc.  Maybe Indy and their style of play just didn't suit him?  Maybe he didn't want to be part of a rebuild?  I respect that.  You can't say he didn't just take the money this year I guess.

 

There are still some VERY good players out there.  And I never expected this to be a 1 year fix anyway.  This is likely a 2-3 year plan and CB seems intent on staying the course.  i like it.  We'll be fine.  Just breathe.......

[stitches]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

All good points. I'm prone to believe that there's something irregular about this reporting.

 

Even if they did offer a five year deal, I can't imagine that it was guaranteed beyond Year 1. 

I think it probably was similar to our other long-term contracts. I posted an observation about them the other day by a Texans salary cap account:

 

 

 

 

 

If I had to bet it was front loaded through a roster bonus, but had nothing (or little) guaranteed past year 1. Maybe it was something like... 14M in the first year(including the roster bonus) + very little or nothing guaranteed in years 2-5. For example Sheard's 25.5M contract only 12.5 is guaranteed and 10 of those are in the first year. So I can see us offering something like 14M guaranteed first year + 3.5 guaranteed in second year and nothing else being guaranteed. In essence Ballard is buying future flexibility (both giving him the chance to cut players that don't perform without having huge hit on the cap, and by having lower salary in the future while the cap is rising even if the player stays).

 

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Lol I know this is completely irrelevant but I just looked up Poe's rating on Madden after not playing for like 4 months. 

He's rated 79 overall. I had no idea things had gotten that bad for him that even the scrub Madden Ratings team would knock him down so far. 

[dw49]

On 3/16/2017 at 7:35 PM, Superman said:

 

All good points. I'm prone to believe that there's something irregular about this reporting.

 

Even if they did offer a five year deal, I can't imagine that it was guaranteed beyond Year 1. 

 

These contracts "reported" by beat writers often appear to end up not even being in the "ball park of reality." I read earlier from one of these reporters that the Bears offered Butler what amounted to a bit more than league minimum. I don't believe for a minute that they would have him in for a visit and offer him that. And for the record , I read somewhere else that speculated the offer to be 5 years at around 45 million. Also ..like you guys say , if it were 60 mill , we have no idea of the guaranteed money.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Lol I know this is completely irrelevant but I just looked up Poe's rating on Madden after not playing for like 4 months. 

He's rated 79 overall. I had no idea things had gotten that bad for him that even the scrub Madden Ratings team would knock him down so far. 

 

Not move him to DE and I bet his rating goes up. Maybe that is where Poe got the idea.