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Put Yourself In Jim's Shoes


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It is funny how alot of us(myself included)demanded change, and gratefully we got it. So now that

we have change we don't want it. We want to pick the coach the GM and now the QB. Now everbody wants to tell JIM I. how to spend his money and to let PM be the QB until he has to be wheeled or carried off the field. Other than an occasional goofy tweet, we are blessed with one of the better owners in sports,but yet fans are saying they will no longer be Colt fans if he does'nt keep OUR chosen QB. This has to be a gut wrenching decision for JI, It is very easy for alot of us to spend his money for him on an investment that could literally blow up in face come training camp and put this franchise years behind, because keeping both qbs is not a realistic option for the franchise, just its fans. So let be real careful on how we judge JI on this tough choice,which seems to be days or weeks ahead. Look at it this way, if this was your business, would you opt for the two more years of possible

QB play with a aging hurt QB or a possible 14 more of what many experts claim to be his once in a generation clone. I know the short sided forum answer is to keep PM, but if this were your business

I dont think that would be your choice either. GO COLTS.

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If it were my business I would be thinking outside the box.

If the 3/8 due date was set in stone, that is when I would make my decision. I would meet with my GM/HC, and kick the tires on every possible scenario that could be an option.

Some view the simple solution is cut Manning draft Luck.

It's not that simple.

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It is funny how alot of us(myself included)demanded change, and gratefully we got it. So now that

we have change we don't want it. We want to pick the coach the GM and now the QB. Now everbody wants to tell JIM I. how to spend his money and to let PM be the QB until he has to be wheeled or carried off the field. Other than an occasional goofy tweet, we are blessed with one of the better owners in sports,but yet fans are saying they will no longer be Colt fans if he does'nt keep OUR chosen QB. This has to be a gut wrenching decision for JI, It is very easy for alot of us to spend his money for him on an investment that could literally blow up in face come training camp and put this franchise years behind, because keeping both qbs is not a realistic option for the franchise, just its fans. So let be real careful on how we judge JI on this tough choice,which seems to be days or weeks ahead. Look at it this way, if this was your business, would you opt for the two more years of possible

QB play with a aging hurt QB or a possible 14 more of what many experts claim to be his once in a generation clone. I know the short sided forum answer is to keep PM, but if this were your business

I dont think that would be your choice either. GO COLTS.

The problem is...too many have boght into the 'logic' that you cant have BOTH Manning and Luck..

..that a No.1 QB simply cant sit on the bench even one season.....

its not a hard decison....really

Sign Manning....The big contact was YOUR idea anyway Mr. Irsay...(the money..in his mind...was alreday spent when he signed the deal)

..and draft Luck.........Instruct your coaches to make it work....(which they will gladly do)...

...Dont listen to people saying you have to choose..take them both...

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If it were my business I would be thinking outside the box.

If the 3/8 due date was set in stone, that is when I would make my decision. I would meet with my GM/HC, and kick the tires on every possible scenario that could be an option.

Some view the simple solution is cut Manning draft Luck.

It's not that simple.

What is some of the "outside the box" thinking you would do?
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If it were my business I would be thinking outside the box.

If the 3/8 due date was set in stone, that is when I would make my decision. I would meet with my GM/HC, and kick the tires on every possible scenario that could be an option.

Some view the simple solution is cut Manning draft Luck.

It's not that simple.

Amen.

The problem is...too many have boght into the 'logic' that you cant have BOTH Manning and Luck..

..that a No.1 QB simply cant sit on the bench even one season.....

its not a hard decison....really

Sign Manning....The big contact was YOUR idea anyway Mr. Irsay...(the money..in his mind...was alreday spent when he signed the deal)

..and draft Luck.........Instruct your coaches to make it work....(which they will gladly do)...

...Dont listen to people saying you have to choose..take them both...

I think that was plan A, and it would probably be for the best. The only way to possibly win now, as well as going forward, would be to stick to the plan.

If it's a contract thing, then these two (Jim and Peyton) should obviously sit down and hash it out.

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The problem is...too many have boght into the 'logic' that you cant have BOTH Manning and Luck..

..that a No.1 QB simply cant sit on the bench even one season.....

its not a hard decison....really

Sign Manning....The big contact was YOUR idea anyway Mr. Irsay...(the money..in his mind...was alreday spent when he signed the deal)

..and draft Luck.........Instruct your coaches to make it work....(which they will gladly do)...

...Dont listen to people saying you have to choose..take them both...

Manning has said many times that in his opinion Luck sitting for any time is not fair to Luck.
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What is some of the "outside the box" thinking you would do?

Well it's too late for some of it, with an OC being hired and everything. A couple of the options have been eliminated.

I would explore trading the pick, to see what type of package it would generate, and what projections would be there with the gained picks, future players.

A free agent signing would be a possibility, not so much with the OC we hired and that isn't bashing him, just feel we've eliminated a few options.

I would look into what QB's could be acquired via a trade.

I would have Grigson and the scouting staff watch every throw of Luck, RGIII and every QB worthy of a 3rd round pick.

A lot of it could be dependent on Manning's health and that could help direct the efforts one way or the other.

That's a few.

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Well it's too late for some of it, with an OC being hired and everything. A couple of the options have been eliminated.

I would explore trading the pick, to see what type of package it would generate, and what projections would be there with the gained picks, future players.

A free agent signing would be a possibility, not so much with the OC we hired and that isn't bashing him, just feel we've eliminated a few options.

I would look into what QB's could be acquired via a trade.

I would have Grigson and the scouting staff watch every throw of Luck, RGIII and every QB worthy of a 3rd round pick.

A lot of it could be dependent on Manning's health and that could help direct the efforts one way or the other.

That's a few.

Well said (again). You are on fire today. :clap:

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Personally I look at it this way.

Let's assume for a minute that Manning was never hurt. Would you considering releasing him before the 28 million roster bonus and drafting Luck to replace him?

If the answer is no, then you wait until March 6, you have him go out and throw the tree 6-10 times, have the training staff examine him, then have him do it again on March 7, have the training staff examine him.

If it's deemed acceptable than you cut the check for $28 mi and then decide if you are going to draft Luck or RGIII or pull out something totally off the wall and get Stills with the #1 pick (too high but I'm not going to go through all the trade scenarios) and then Get Foles, Wheeden or Osweiler in the 2nd).

If he does not perform as expected then you cut ties.

If the answer to the first question is yes, then you just release him and let 25 teams go into a bidding war because he will easily be the most sought after FA.

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If it were my business I would be thinking outside the box.

If the 3/8 due date was set in stone, that is when I would make my decision. I would meet with my GM/HC, and kick the tires on every possible scenario that could be an option.

Some view the simple solution is cut Manning draft Luck.

It's not that simple.

I'm with you. I would wait until the last second of the last minute. There are options, and layers, and choices based on keeping one, both, neither...

To your point OldUncleMark, I have wondered for a week if the firing of the Polians first wasn't as much about Manning's contract and situation as it was about recent drafts, or power, or direction. We may never know how much input Irsay had on Manning's last deal, but I would bet Irsay wished that was drawn up very differently today then the moment the ink dried. The contract is as big a part of this situation as health, and draft picks, and everything else. I wonder if that was Irsay's last straw with Polian.

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Well it's too late for some of it, with an OC being hired and everything. A couple of the options have been eliminated.

I would explore trading the pick, to see what type of package it would generate, and what projections would be there with the gained picks, future players.

A free agent signing would be a possibility, not so much with the OC we hired and that isn't bashing him, just feel we've eliminated a few options.

I would look into what QB's could be acquired via a trade.

I would have Grigson and the scouting staff watch every throw of Luck, RGIII and every QB worthy of a 3rd round pick.

A lot of it could be dependent on Manning's health and that could help direct the efforts one way or the other.

That's a few.

Those are all good ideas and I am sure the team is doing all of that. None of those, however, are really thinking outside the box.
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If it were my business I would be thinking outside the box.

If the 3/8 due date was set in stone, that is when I would make my decision. I would meet with my GM/HC, and kick the tires on every possible scenario that could be an option.

Some view the simple solution is cut Manning draft Luck.

It's not that simple.

I have to agree with Jim on this one. :thmup:

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Personally I look at it this way. Let's assume for a minute that Manning was never hurt. Would you considering releasing him before the 28 million roster bonus and drafting Luck to replace him? If the answer is no, then you wait until March 6, you have him go out and throw the tree 6-10 times, have the training staff examine him, then have him do it again on March 7, have the training staff examine him. If it's deemed acceptable than you cut the check for $28 mi and then decide if you are going to draft Luck or RGIII or pull out something totally off the wall and get Stills with the #1 pick (too high but I'm not going to go through all the trade scenarios) and then Get Foles, Wheeden or Osweiler in the 2nd). If he does not perform as expected then you cut ties. If the answer to the first question is yes, then you just release him and let 25 teams go into a bidding war because he will easily be the most sought after FA.

There is grey area that needs addressed in that analysis though.

What if he is much better than he was in December, but still not 100%? But you can see him trending up and it appears he will be fine for the start of the season, but of course like anything, its not 100% guaranteed

Now what do you do? What does "healthy" mean to Jim Irsay? I guess we will find out.

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Personally I look at it this way.

Let's assume for a minute that Manning was never hurt. Would you considering releasing him before the 28 million roster bonus and drafting Luck to replace him?

If the answer is no, then you wait until March 6, you have him go out and throw the tree 6-10 times, have the training staff examine him, then have him do it again on March 7, have the training staff examine him.

If it's deemed acceptable than you cut the check for $28 mi and then decide if you are going to draft Luck or RGIII or pull out something totally off the wall and get Stills with the #1 pick (too high but I'm not going to go through all the trade scenarios) and then Get Foles, Wheeden or Osweiler in the 2nd).

If he does not perform as expected then you cut ties.

If the answer to the first question is yes, then you just release him and let 25 teams go into a bidding war because he will easily be the most sought after FA.

I proposed a question in another thread, that if Manning were 100% healthy, and had the same contract constructed the same way, and the CBA changed where they didn't assign draft picks but based on W/L record but instead a true equal 32 chance lottery and say the Colts won it and owned the pick.

Some still said to take Luck as opposed to moving the pick. I don't doubt Luck will be a solid QB, yet I don't see him as some supreme being.

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What is he supposed to say? "Luck should know his role"?

Not to sound so sarcastic, but I guess I don't know what else he could have said.

Yes, but I think that is PMs polite way of saying bad idea. With the way everyone has been acting, if PM does'nt approve then we should'nt do it, and he is on record saying both of them on same team is not fair to Luck.
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Manning has said many times that in his opinion Luck sitting for any time is not fair to Luck.

Then tell Peyton that as the owner..you'll decide what's fair for Andrew Luck.

Its best for the Colts franchise to have Manning return us to the playoffs next season..while Luck watches and gets to take over in 3 of 4 years....

..the best case scenario is for Manning to make Luck his personal project...and prepare him to carry on afre he is gone.

Irsay has to set that down as the way the Colts franchise benefits

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Then tell Peyton that as the owner..you'll decide what's fair for Andrew Luck.

Its best for the Colts franchise to have Manning return us to the playoffs next season..while Luck watches and gets to take over in 3 of 4 years....

..the best case scenario is for Manning to make Luck his personal project...and prepare him to carry on afre he is gone.

Irsay has to set that down as the way the Colts franchise benefits

Manning's responsibility is to prepare for the season/schedule, not having a pet project. With the $ & cap involved I still have a hard time believing 12 & 18 is the best situation for the team.

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If it were my business I would be thinking outside the box.

If the 3/8 due date was set in stone, that is when I would make my decision. I would meet with my GM/HC, and kick the tires on every possible scenario that could be an option.

Some view the simple solution is cut Manning draft Luck.

It's not that simple.

There is no easy way out...

Trading the pick is controversial...

Cutting manning..means you better be on the bus out of town with him when he leaves..

..and going Pey-Luck (keeping both) costs the most..

...But that's the boldest move....and it could keep Indy as an elite (I dont coujnt last year) franchise..

...plus to have Luck and Manning on the same teams means the circus comes to town

ESPN will open up a whole new studio on Meridian

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Then tell Peyton that as the owner..you'll decide what's fair for Andrew Luck.

Its best for the Colts franchise to have Manning return us to the playoffs next season..while Luck watches and gets to take over in 3 of 4 years....

..the best case scenario is for Manning to make Luck his personal project...and prepare him to carry on afre he is gone.

Irsay has to set that down as the way the Colts franchise benefits

LOL, what number 1 pick in any sport sits 3 to 4 years?Name one. No offense, but that is ridiculous.
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Personally I look at it this way.

Let's assume for a minute that Manning was never hurt. Would you considering releasing him before the 28 million roster bonus and drafting Luck to replace him?

If the answer is no, then you wait until March 6, you have him go out and throw the tree 6-10 times, have the training staff examine him, then have him do it again on March 7, have the training staff examine him.

If it's deemed acceptable than you cut the check for $28 mi and then decide if you are going to draft Luck or RGIII or pull out something totally off the wall and get Stills with the #1 pick (too high but I'm not going to go through all the trade scenarios) and then Get Foles, Wheeden or Osweiler in the 2nd).

If he does not perform as expected then you cut ties.

If the answer to the first question is yes, then you just release him and let 25 teams go into a bidding war because he will easily be the most sought after FA.

I agree with this pretty much but I would have Manning perform for me the last 2 weeks of the timeframe to simulate gametime throwing, meaning repetitions of 25-35 passes in a session of many of the throws he needs to be at an NFL QB calibur. Then I would have him follow that up by a same type session the following week an see what his arm stamina is at this point. Take a couple days and make the decsion. WHile he may not be able at this point to make the 40 yard bombs, he better be able to make the 15 yard outs, curls and slants with some zing and be able to handle it with stamina before I would cut a 28 million dollar check. I think the team can make a pretty accurate assessment of progress made from Dec 1 up through March 7th to make the decision on March 8th.

Those are all good ideas and I am sure the team is doing all of that. None of those, however, are really thinking outside the box.

I actually think that looking at a possible keeping Manning and trading the pick for a bunch of picks is way outside the box because of the unknown to Mannings health and the fact that 95% of the media, scouts etc... are claiming that Luck is the most complete NFL ready QB they have seen since John Elway. I say that is pretty out of the box thinking to consider a trade for that and hope your old horse can still run in the derby.

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It is funny how alot of us(myself included)demanded change, and gratefully we got it. So now that

we have change we don't want it. We want to pick the coach the GM and now the QB. Now everbody wants to tell JIM I. how to spend his money and to let PM be the QB until he has to be wheeled or carried off the field. Other than an occasional goofy tweet, we are blessed with one of the better owners in sports,but yet fans are saying they will no longer be Colt fans if he does'nt keep OUR chosen QB. This has to be a gut wrenching decision for JI, It is very easy for alot of us to spend his money for him on an investment that could literally blow up in face come training camp and put this franchise years behind, because keeping both qbs is not a realistic option for the franchise, just its fans. So let be real careful on how we judge JI on this tough choice,which seems to be days or weeks ahead. Look at it this way, if this was your business, would you opt for the two more years of possible

QB play with a aging hurt QB or a possible 14 more of what many experts claim to be his once in a generation clone. I know the short sided forum answer is to keep PM, but if this were your business

I dont think that would be your choice either. GO COLTS.

Peyton Manning is the reason why there is still an NFL team in Indianapolis and we are not the LA Express. The Luke should be named Peyton's Place. Without Peyton we go below 500 the last 14 seasons with no SuperBowl appearances.

Just my opinion.

Take care of the man who made all of this possible. It's not a normal business decision and it shouldn't even need a second thought. If Peyton can play then you pay him.

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Then tell Peyton that as the owner..you'll decide what's fair for Andrew Luck.

Its best for the Colts franchise to have Manning return us to the playoffs next season..while Luck watches and gets to take over in 3 of 4 years....

..the best case scenario is for Manning to make Luck his personal project...and prepare him to carry on afre he is gone.

Irsay has to set that down as the way the Colts franchise benefits

I think Manning should feel comfortable enough to tell the owner and GM that he doesn't like this idea and thinks he can still play and the team will be better served over the next 4 years of his career to build up the team for him as opposed to having another top shelf QB to sit and watch behind him. I also think the owner and GM can say, tough, this is how we see it unfolding past your career and there are no gaurantees we will be able to select someone closely matching your abilities to take over when your done, so we take Luck. Look Peyton, youve done well with the crap Polian got you over the years (sprinkled in with some excellent ones too) so we will draft and fix your oline, expand your WR's and develope a defense that will get you back onto the field to do your thing.

I honestly believe that PM would enjoy having someone of this calibur to hang with, practice with and share similar views of the game. Sorgi was that for him I believe and had the ability to understand the game, just didn't have the talent to match it. Luck, by all accounts, has both the talent and the ability to match PM with his mind as well as the ability so I think PM would absolutely love it and Luck would be better for it as well. The only drawback I see is that Luck would have his stats career shortened by sitting behind PM and that may affect his HOF career if one were to develop as he played.

I keep them both not kowing Mannings arm strength and stamina. If Mannings arm is of no question at all anymore, I trade the pick and keep Manning and ride him 4 more years.

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Its not going to be smooth any way it goes...

.....and certainly $28 mil is a ridiculous bonus...How dd they ever come upon that amount?..

Picture it being worse... 28 added to the original 20. That was what it likely was going to be until Manning suggested the structure to give the Colts an out.

Our cap situation would be far worse if it were 48 as opposed to 20 with an option of 28.

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Peyton Manning is the reason why there is still an NFL team in Indianapolis and we are not the LA Express. The Luke should be named Peyton's Place. Without Peyton we go below 500 the last 14 seasons with no SuperBowl appearances.

Just my opinion.

Take care of the man who made all of this possible. It's not a normal business decision and it shouldn't even need a second thought. If Peyton can play then you pay him.

Yes PM is the reason we are who we are today and who knows what the record would have become with any other QB at the helm in Indy and Polian shaping the roster during that time but you can't just >>> your franchise up for what has occurred during that time. You have paid PM at the top of the scale all along, both parties have made tons of cash, PM will be known in the NFL long after his death and as a Colt. PM has nothing bad he can say about the way he has been treated during his time in Indy and even he understands this is business not something personal. If you want to take care of the man, you do that in a way that doesn't blow up your team and strap your cap by giving him a post football life top position in the franchise (look at Elway and the Bronco's). There are plenty of ways to handle this but paying for something that is broken a lot of money is a stupid way to handle your business no matter how great or how much you love the person.

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There is grey area that needs addressed in that analysis though.

What if he is much better than he was in December, but still not 100%? But you can see him trending up and it appears he will be fine for the start of the season, but of course like anything, its not 100% guaranteed

Now what do you do? What does "healthy" mean to Jim Irsay? I guess we will find out.

That is what is determine by the workouts.
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