2017 NFL Combine Skills Day #3(3/5/17) (DL, LB)

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

Tim Williams didn't run great but he's doing well in the drills. Moves well and smooth. Kind of like Reddick.

thinking 2nd rounder with the drug issues?

[stitches]

Just now, csmopar said:

thinking 2nd rounder with the drug issues?

I'd take him in the first if I knew his drug issues are not a problem and I wouldn't take him in the first 2 rounds if I thought his drug issues are a problem.

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

thinking 2nd rounder with the drug issues?

 

Even with his off field issues and how he disappeared in the NC game, I'll be shocked if he falls out of the first round.  

[stitches]

This might not be a popular opinion - I wouldn't draft Ryan Anderson in the first 3 rounds.

He just ran 4.79 40 yard.

 

Alex Anzalone 4.64

 

Zach Cunningham 4.71,,, expected better.

[BleedBlu8792]

20 minutes ago, stitches said:

I'd take him in the first if I knew his drug issues are not a problem and I wouldn't take him in the first 2 rounds if I thought his drug issues are a problem.

 

I still wouldn't. Pass rush is bland, with only a good first step. Isn't an every down guy, and with him not lifting, pretty much feel confirmed of my opinion of him not being a strong guy either. 

 

[stitches]

Raekwon McMillan just ran 4.61. That's good for his draft stock.

[Defjamz26]

Raekwon McMillan with a 4.62. I told you guys he was underrated athletically!!!!

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

I still wouldn't. Pass rush is bland, with only a good first step. Isn't an every down guy, and with him not lifting, pretty much feel confirmed of my opinion of him not being a strong guy either. 

 

I disagree about his pass-rush. He's great. He's created pressure on 27% of his snaps last 2 years!!! That's insane. For comparison the average for college pass-rushers is 10%. And he's also not as bad defending the run as people make him out to be.

[stitches]

Jabrill Peppers 4.47

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Raekwon McMillan with a 4.62. I told you guys he was underrated athletically!!!!

Our 2nd round pick?

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Raekwon McMillan with a 4.62. I told you guys he was underrated athletically!!!!

 

I watched him completely for 3 years. Anyone who says he wasn't athletic didn't watch him. He can play straight up and in coverage. While not great in either area, he's above average and will probably be a day 1 starter somewhere.

[stitches]

Duke Riley might go on day 2 ...

[BleedBlu8792]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

I disagree about his pass-rush. He's great. He's created pressure on 27% of his snaps last 2 years!!! That's insane. For comparison the average for college pass-rushers is 10%. And he's also not as bad defending the run as people make him out to be.

 

If that were the case he wouldn't get yanked on early run downs, which happened to him a lot. Also, he did practically nothing in the game against Clemson, arguably the best OL he faced all year. SEC OL's were % this year.

[Defjamz26]

2 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

I watched him completely for 3 years. Anyone who says he wasn't athletic didn't watch him. He can play straight up and in coverage. While not great in either area, he's above average and will probably be a day 1 starter somewhere.

Exactly. I watched him shut Saquan Barkley down 1-on-1 in coverage including knocking down a would be TD in the end zone. And he was all over Mixon and Perrine against Oklahoma.

[stitches]

Just now, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

If that were the case he wouldn't get yanked on early run downs, which happened to him a lot. Also, he did practically nothing in the game against Clemson, arguably the best OL he faced all year. SEC OL's were % this year.

You forget that he's playing on freaking Alabama. They don't need him to defend the run. They have amazing run defenders. They can afford to use designated players for different types of downs. He also graded as above average defending the run in the limited snaps he had against the run. I'm not saying he's great at it by any means, but he's far from a complete liability. Also - it's dangerous to evaluate players based on single games, be it good ones or bad ones.

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Exactly. I watched him shut Saquan Barkley down 1-on-1 in coverage including knocking down a would be TD in the end zone. And he was all over Mixon and Perrine against Oklahoma.

 

If he makes it to the third round, I would be shocked. I can't think of but maybe 2 or 3 teams he would go to and wouldn't start immediately. I'd be happy with him or Jarrad Davis in the 2nd.

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

3 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

If that were the case he wouldn't get yanked on early run downs, which happened to him a lot. Also, he did practically nothing in the game against Clemson, arguably the best OL he faced all year. SEC OL's were % this year.

You draft off of potential and skill set, not college production. Tim is a beast.

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, stitches said:

You forget that he's playing on freaking Alabama. They don't need him to defend the run. They have amazing run defenders. They can afford to use designated players for different types of downs. He also graded as above average defending the run in the limited snaps he had against the run. I'm not saying he's great at it by any means, but he's far from a complete liability. Also - it's dangerous to evaluate players based on single games, be it good ones or bad ones.

 

Playing for Alabama doesn't help him in anyway especially when the SEC as a whole was bad this year. If I'm looking at a guy as a top 15 pick, he better be a 3 down guy - FULL TIME. Single game evaluations are excellent when it's the best team he faced all year. 

[BleedBlu8792]

2 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

You draft off of potential and skill set, not college production. Tim is a beast.

 

Sure, give me Hassan Reddick all day over Tim then... 

[Defjamz26]

Bunch of 4.6's, these LBs are flying. And Cunningham is disappointing considering how hyped he was as an athletic coverage LB. And Bucky Brooks called him out saying 4.7 is not fast enough to be a run and chase guy.

[Shive]

17 minutes ago, stitches said:

This might not be a popular opinion - I wouldn't draft Ryan Anderson in the first 3 rounds.

He just ran 4.79 40 yard.

I didn't expect a good 40 for him, nor should that be a deterrent for picking any edge rusher. The 10 yd split is the most important part, since most times that's the farthest they'd be running and it shows how quick of a burst they have off the line. Anderson is a safe pick. He won't blow you away, but he's consistent. He plays his assignments to a T and does exactly what he's expected. You need those guys and the Pats have filled their defense with those types of guys year after year. He's a perfect SAM, but I'd never bet on him as our primary pass rusher.

 

Just now, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

If that were the case he wouldn't get yanked on early run downs, which happened to him a lot. Also, he did practically nothing in the game against Clemson, arguably the best OL he faced all year. SEC OL's were % this year.

As others said, I think his lack of playing run downs had less people do with his ability and more to do with saving your best pass rusher for passing downs. The OL is playing all game and getting worn down by the rotation. They're gassed while Williams comes in still fresh and wreaks havoc. That would bring into question how productive he could be with playing more than just 3rd down.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Playing for Alabama doesn't help him in anyway especially when the SEC as a whole was bad this year. If I'm looking at a guy as a top 15 pick, he better be a 3 down guy - FULL TIME. Single game evaluations are excellent when it's the best team he faced all year. 

I think eventually he can be 3 down guy. Maybe even sooner than most expect.

[WarGhost21]

1 hour ago, GoColts00 said:

Would anyone else want the Colts to take Takk McKinley and trade the 2018 1st Rd pick to come back into the 1st this year to get Haason Reddick?

I had a similar idea in my mock I just posted. I think you would like it!

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Sure, give me Hassan Reddick all day over Tim then... 

You never know, we could end up drafting either Tim or Hassan.

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Bunch of 4.6's, these LBs are flying. And Cunningham is disappointing considering how hyped he was as an athletic coverage LB. And Bucky Brooks called him out saying 4.7 is not fast enough to be a run and chase guy.

I was suprised at Zachs time too.

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, Shive said:

I didn't expect a good 40 for him, nor should that be a deterrent for picking any edge rusher. The 10 yd split is the most important part, since most times that's the farthest they'd be running and it shows how quick of a burst they have off the line. Anderson is a safe pick. He won't blow you away, but he's consistent. He plays his assignments to a T and does exactly what he's expected. You need those guys and the Pats have filled their defense with those types of guys year after year. He's a perfect SAM, but I'd never bet on him as our primary pass rusher.

 

As others said, I think his lack of playing run downs had less people do with his ability and more to do with saving your best pass rusher for passing downs. The OL is playing all game and getting worn down by the rotation. They're gassed while Williams comes in still fresh and wreaks havoc. That would bring into question how productive he could be with playing more than just 3rd down.

 

Yep... Imagine how good Freeney and Mathis would have been late in games if they were only relegated to 3rd down duty. Scary....

 

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Shive said:

I didn't expect a good 40 for him, nor should that be a deterrent for picking any edge rusher. The 10 yd split is the most important part, since most times that's the farthest they'd be running and it shows how quick of a burst they have off the line. Anderson is a safe pick. He won't blow you away, but he's consistent. He plays his assignments to a T and does exactly what he's expected. You need those guys and the Pats have filled their defense with those types of guys year after year. He's a perfect SAM, but I'd never bet on him as our primary pass rusher.

 

As others said, I think his lack of playing run downs had less people do with his ability and more to do with saving your best pass rusher for passing downs. The OL is playing all game and getting worn down by the rotation. They're gassed while Williams comes in still fresh and wreaks havoc. That would bring into question how productive he could be with playing more than just 3rd down.

I think the bigger problem with him is his coverage ability. I don't think he's smooth enough to drop into coverage and in 3-4 OLB role he will have to do it very often.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, Shive said:

I didn't expect a good 40 for him, nor should that be a deterrent for picking any edge rusher. The 10 yd split is the most important part, since most times that's the farthest they'd be running and it shows how quick of a burst they have off the line. Anderson is a safe pick. He won't blow you away, but he's consistent. He plays his assignments to a T and does exactly what he's expected. You need those guys and the Pats have filled their defense with those types of guys year after year. He's a perfect SAM, but I'd never bet on him as our primary pass rusher.

 

As others said, I think his lack of playing run downs had less people do with his ability and more to do with saving your best pass rusher for passing downs. The OL is playing all game and getting worn down by the rotation. They're gassed while Williams comes in still fresh and wreaks havoc. That would bring into question how productive he could be with playing more than just 3rd down.

I agree with both of your paragraphs. But to the bolded, if you watched tape, Tim was not only on the field on 3rd down. He made a lot of plays on 1st and 2nd downs too.

[OffensivelyPC]

2 hours ago, SP_21 said:

I thought Solomon Thomas was going to blow up the combine?   Not a bad time but scouts we're talking 4.5ish

I never thought he looked that fast. I know its been some time since you said this, but hes had a good combine as far as measurables.  Im looking forward to watching his other tape.

[Shive]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

I think the bigger problem with him is his coverage ability. I don't think he's smooth enough to drop into coverage and in 3-4 OLB role he will have to do it very often.

I can see that as a valid concern...I'll watch a bit more film on him to see if I can find how he was in coverage, if he dropped back really at all.

 

Just now, Majin Vegeta said:

I agree with both of your paragraphs. But to the bolded, if you watched tape, Tim was not only on the field on 3rd down. He made a lot of plays on 1st and 2nd downs too.

I guess the point I was trying to make there is that it's easier to play well when you're not playing a ton of snaps per game. He's going in way fresher than a guy that's out there on 70% of defensive snaps.

[OffensivelyPC]

8 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Bunch of 4.6's, these LBs are flying. And Cunningham is disappointing considering how hyped he was as an athletic coverage LB. And Bucky Brooks called him out saying 4.7 is not fast enough to be a run and chase guy.

Im also disappointed in Brantley. He looks much stronger on tape than his numbers would indicate. Im not even sure why that is... 

[krunk]

I have to ask the question. Is Tim Williams head and shoulders above a guy like TJ Watt? Combine numbers have been similar so far and TJ gets to the QB. No weed issues, and strong against the run.

[Shive]

Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

Im also disappointed in Brantley. He looks much stronger on tape than his numbers would indicate. Im not even sure why that is... 

Some guys are strong, but not functionally. Brantley may just be a guy that uses the strength that he has well.

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, Majin Vegeta said:

I agree with both of your paragraphs. But to the bolded, if you watched tape, Tim was not only on the field on 3rd down. He made a lot of plays on 1st and 2nd downs too.

 

To the bolded, of course he did, but that's a little ambiguous. Bama played ahead A LOT this year, so of course Tim is going to be out there head hunting QB's on first and second down, but in the NFL that's not going to be the case like it was at Bama. Him not lifting worries me, and again, makes me believe that he's not as strong as people believe he is. Which would support the notion that he's not an every down guy as an edge defender. If he lifts at his pro day and put up ATLEAST 20+ I'll gladly change my tune on him.

[Shive]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

I have to ask the question. Is Tim Williams head and shoulders above a guy like TJ Watt? Combine numbers have been similar so far and TJ gets to the QB. No weed issues, and strong against the run.

Personally, I don't think so. I know the knock against Watt is usually how new he is to the position, but from a production and athletic prospective, he should be in the conversation. I don't think he has as high of a ceiling that William has, but he definitely has a higher floor.

[BleedBlu8792]

4 minutes ago, krunk said:

I have to ask the question. Is Tim Williams head and shoulders above a guy like TJ Watt? Combine numbers have been similar so far and TJ gets to the QB. No weed issues, and strong against the run.

 

I don't believe so, and right now, I would take Watt over Williams. Has the speed and strength to show me he's an every down player. Could be a Clay Mathews in the making. No one thought Clay would be as good as he is. 

[Shive]

1 minute ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

I don't believe so, and right now, I would take Watt over Williams. Has the speed and strength to show me he's an every down player. Could be a Clay Mathews in the making. No one thought Clay would be as good as he is. 

I'm out of likes.....

[SP_21]

9 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I never thought he looked that fast. I know its been some time since you said this, but hes had a good combine as far as measurables.  Im looking forward to watching his other tape.

It's just crazy how hyped up some of these guys get. Actually pretty unfair to the players too. If an expert says you'll run an amazing 40 and you run just a good 40 people are disappointed. 

[OffensivelyPC]

7 minutes ago, Shive said:

Some guys are strong, but not functionally. Brantley may just be a guy that uses the strength that he has well.

Ive seen that he was rotated, and that could play in. Its hard to tell watch the film cut-ups.

[stitches]

I don't see it with Watt! Like... AT ALL! He's another one I wouldn't draft in the first 2 days. And yes, I do think Tim Williams is head and shoulders above him. I don't mind people being worried about his drug issues and I can absolutely understand not wanting to draft him because of it, but on the field I don't think they are particularly close.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

I like this LB class.