Drafting Dalvin Cook

[DaColts85]

I would just like to start the debate of potentially drafting Cook and also the key benefits that we get with having him.

 

I understand a lot of posters see him as a luxury pick.  I disagree!  He is a position of need and could easily be the BPA at our pick.  That being said let's focus on the clear benefit we get with having a great feature back to take heat off of Luck.  Luck is a great QB and has had constant heat on him each year.  We have started to build a decent line to protect him but seem to still be a little ways away.  Bringing in a RB with comparisons to Edge would be a huge help to Luck and our offense as a whole.  You can now take advantage of Play Action and it actually works.  You can now make a defense play honest and not just focus on the pass for 3 straight downs.  

 

After this one pick you have 6 others to focus on D.  Plus you can mainly focus on D in FA with possibly grabbing an O-line guy.  To me I can see this being something that would be a great move for the first pick of CB.  Again, just wanted to start the debate and see what thoughts are....

[Shive]

What I look at in a draft like this is the drop-off in talent between the top tier and the next tier. ILB has a huge talent drop-off outside of the top 2 or 3. EDGE has a decent drop-off as well. RB doesn't have much of a drop-off. You can find starting quality RB's in the 3rd & 4th rounds. Because of this, the positions with a steeper drop-off in talent present a better value. I'm all for BPA, but I don't think it's ever that black and white.

 

Add to this that Cook has a HUGE fumbling problem and I'll pass. I think Kareem Hunt in the 3rd would present much better value and you can count his career fumbles on one hand..

[WarGhost21]

It's a very safe pick, I agree, but an issue isn't being resolved here. Sure, Gore is getting old and can't keep going too long, but he's still a starting caliber back. Only a couple of defensive players are starting caliber, IMO (Vontae Davis and Henry Anderson), with the others still quality players who could start if there weren't much better options available for us. Those two are the only safe bets to start next season and, aside from Clayton Geathers, everyone else is a liability. We need to at least start building the defense with blue chip talent rather than build onto an already potent offense. I don't see him as a luxury pick entirely, but in some ways, he is exactly that.

[SaturdayAllDay]

When your defense doesnt stop anyone and they score on 30 second drives you end up in a shootout and the running game gets left behind. If we abandon the run all the time Cook isnt being used to his potential anyways. Hes a good player but i just dont think the payoff for what he would add offsets the payoff that a 10 sack/ yr edge rusher does.

 

We go from a top 8 offense to a top 5 offense (the difference between gores yds/tds to what a top 5 rb would get). 

If we get a good pass rusher it would help not only our sack stats, but our db stats, our dline stats (as it takes double teams off of them). It could bring our defense up far more than 3 slots in the rankings. 

[DaColts85]

4 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

It's a very safe pick, I agree, but an issue isn't being resolved here. Sure, Gore is getting old and can't keep going too long, but he's still a starting caliber back. Only a couple of defensive players are starting caliber, IMO (Vontae Davis and Henry Anderson), with the others still quality players who could start if there weren't much better options available for us. Those two are the only safe bets to start next season and, aside from Clayton Geathers, everyone else is a liability. We need to at least start building the defense with blue chip talent rather than build onto an already potent offense. I don't see him as a luxury pick entirely, but in some ways, he is exactly that.

Now I do agree with you, but for the sake of debate say that most D blue chip players have been drafted.  CB looks at his board and his BPA is currently Cook.  Even if Barnett was on the board I see us going elsewhere.  I think Barnett will end up being a great pro but he is a 4-3 player.  All other picks plus FA can focus on glaring holes with our defense.  

[Defjamz26]

It depends on so many factors. What we do in FA, who's in the board at our pick, etc...I wouldn't boo the pick though. But I wouldn't take him over Reuben Foster or Solomon Thomas. If s game changer defensive player is there you take him. If just a decent defensive player is there, take Cook.

[DaColts85]

3 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

When your defense doesnt stop anyone and they score on 30 second drives you end up in a shootout and the running game gets left behind. If we abandon the run all the time Cook isnt being used to his potential anyways. Hes a good player but i just dont think the payoff for what he would add offsets the payoff that a 10 sack/ yr edge rusher does.

 

We go from a top 8 offense to a top 5 offense (the difference between gores yds/tds to what a top 5 rb would get). 

If we get a good pass rusher it would help our not only our sack stats, but our db stats, our dline stats (as it takes double teams off of them). It could bring our defense up far more than 3 slots in the rankings. 

I see your point but if you have a running back who can get close to 5 YPC you hopefully have longer drives and chances to not get behind so quick.  We had extremely slow starts and that is what hurt our D for the most part.  We have glaring issues on that side of the ball, and having them on the field a lot is the last thing you want.  Again, if you focus all other picks plus FA on D you can still provide a lot of help.  Even with a D player drafted in the first round we do not become a top-5 D just like that.  I see CB having two solid years and then we become the dominance we once were.  Hopefully I am wrong and it happens next year but I just do not see it.

[DaColts85]

1 minute ago, Defjamz26 said:

It depends on so many factors. What we do in FA, who's in the board at our pick, etc...I wouldn't boo the pick though. But I wouldn't take him over Reuben Foster or Solomon Thomas. If s game changer defensive player is there you take him. If just a decent defensive player is there, take Cook.

I could not agree more with your statement!

[WarGhost21]

29 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Now I do agree with you, but for the sake of debate say that most D blue chip players have been drafted.  CB looks at his board and his BPA is currently Cook.  Even if Barnett was on the board I see us going elsewhere.  I think Barnett will end up being a great pro but he is a 4-3 player.  All other picks plus FA can focus on glaring holes with our defense.  

I'm not a fan of Barnett, so I agree on that, but I see at least 12 blue-chip defensive players in this draft. At least 2 QB's will go as well, along with Fournette IMO. We should at least have a couple of blue-chip defenders when we pick to choose from.

[DaColts85]

Just now, WarGhost21 said:

I'm not a fan of Barnett, so I agree on that, but I see at least 12 blue-chip defensive players in this draft. At least 2 QB's will go as well, along with Fournette IMO. We should at least have a couple of blue-chip defenders when we pick to chose from.

The question is what CB sees and how his board looks.  I agree there is some good quality on the D side this year but there are some names that will be there in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.  If Foster is there grab him though.  My two crushes are Reuben and Lattimore.  

[SaturdayAllDay]

8 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I see your point but if you have a running back who can get close to 5 YPC you hopefully have longer drives and chances to not get behind so quick.  We had extremely slow starts and that is what hurt our D for the most part.  We have glaring issues on that side of the ball, and having them on the field a lot is the last thing you want.  Again, if you focus all other picks plus FA on D you can still provide a lot of help.  Even with a D player drafted in the first round we do not become a top-5 D just like that.  I see CB having two solid years and then we become the dominance we once were.  Hopefully I am wrong and it happens next year but I just do not see it.

If we keep running long drives running the ball, and the other team scores in a few big plays, our offense gets worn out. We dont convert a 3rd down once, they get ahead. Then we are playing from behind with tired players. Thats how we end up with drops and dumb penalties. We get down 2 scores, we abandon the run. Cook isnt being used properly. 

We need a balance between offense and defense so that they both have time to rest and catch their breath. A middle of the pack defense will still give up plays, but can at least drag out the other teams drives. 

 

I dont see us being a dominant defense next year but id rather be the 8th offense and 18th defense then the 5th offense and 32nd defense. I think we have to get a few guys in free agency AND a few solid picks in the draft just to have a shot at improving the defense. The average 1st round pick is 50/50 to be a solid starter, and every round after that is dimishing chances from there. Free agency is about 50/50 at best as well, and you are overpaying for the solid players you do get. I think we have to walk away with 2-3 solid starters on defense to have a shot at being an average defense. That means we have to get 2 key free agents and hopefully 1 will turn out, a 1st round pick that turns out and another starter that pans out from rounds 2-6. Thats a tough order to fill even WITH the first round pick. 

 

If we had even the 20th ranked defense in the league we could get away with drafting cook, but we need at least 1 solid offseason before we can even get to that level on D. 

[DaColts85]

3 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

If we keep running long drives running the ball, and the other team scores in a few big plays, our offense gets worn out. We dont convert a 3rd down once, they get ahead. Then we are playing from behind with tired players. Thats how we end up with drops and dumb penalties. We get down 2 scores, we abandon the run. Cook isnt being used properly. 

We need a balance between offense and defense so that they both have time to rest and catch their breath. A middle of the pack defense will still give up plays, but can at least drag out the other teams drives. 

 

I dont see us being a dominant defense next year but id rather be the 8th offense and 18th defense then the 5th offense and 32nd defense. I think we have to get a few guys in free agency AND a few solid picks in the draft just to have a shot at improving the defense. The average 1st round pick is 50/50 to be a solid starter, and every round after that is dimishing chances from there. Free agency is about 50/50 at best as well, and you are overpaying for the solid players you do get. I think we have to walk away with 2-3 solid starters on defense to have a shot at being an average defense. That means we have to get 2 key free agents and hopefully 1 will turn out, a 1st round pick that turns out and another starter that pans out from rounds 2-6. Thats a tough order to fill even WITH the first round pick. 

 

If we had even the 20th ranked defense in the league we could get away with drafting cook, but we need at least 1 solid offseason before we can even get to that level on D. 

A very solid point.  I do agree and think D is very important as well.  For the sake of debate though I could say that even with our D last year, with a solid young back we would have a different season in my eyes.  Honestly we could have had a different outcome and our D could be put in some better situations.  That being said, our D was beyond terrible at times last year, so this year you get a solid 2 FA (say Ingram and Brandon Williams) and now you have changed a few things.  Plus even in the second round or so you can find a lot of talent with another Edge guy.  Your comments with regards to the odds of players becoming starters after the 1st round can be seen in all positions.  So I can say the same towards a RB and the impact Cook could be versus another guy who might be just a routine guy for a few years and then out of the league or on to another roster.

[bananabucket]

If Cook is available it seems like a no-brainer to me.  Unless Garrett has a video leaked of him smoking weed with a gas mask

[Jact.stark]

I don't remember very well the stat but it's something like the Colts Offense has to score 30+ to secure the game, i think is the highest of any team saying that we can't justify the pick that only would aggravate the problem to have a great offense but not having a defense.

If you remember we lost a couple of close games because the defense was nonexistent on the final drive, i agree that we could draft Cook as the BPA and i would add that Gore is old and he doesn't have the explosives to make plays and Cook would improve greatly the Colts game.

 

But i don't like the idea of paying a premium for a RB when this class is LOADED of RB talent, i know that most people wouldn't like the idea of drafting Mixon but i can see us picking him and that would be a steal in the 3-4.

 

If Barnett, Foster or even if Cunningham is at the 14 i would pull the trigger because we don't have a pass rusher and we are about to have 0 experience at the position (LB).

[aaron11]

its impossible to say if we should draft him or not with out knowing what the board will look like

 

i counted 8-10 defenders i would take over him, and a couple more i am on the fence about

 

he could be BPA by a good margin by the time we get to the 14th or 15th pick, and i would take him in that case

 

 

[SaturdayAllDay]

2 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

A very solid point.  I do agree and think D is very important as well.  For the sake of debate though I could say that even with our D last year, with a solid young back we would have a different season in my eyes.  Honestly we could have had a different outcome and our D could be put in some better situations.  That being said, our D was beyond terrible at times last year, so this year you get a solid 2 FA (say Ingram and Brandon Williams) and now you have changed a few things.  Plus even in the second round or so you can find a lot of talent with another Edge guy.  Your comments with regards to the odds of players becoming starters after the 1st round can be seen in all positions.  So I can say the same towards a RB and the impact Cook could be versus another guy who might be just a routine guy for a few years and then out of the league or on to another roster.

Absolutely. The thing is, we have a 1000 yd rusher on team already, we dont even have a 5 sack pass rusher, let alone a double digit guy. We can improve our rushing numbers simply by getting a change of pace guy with big play potential. That is much easier to find in the mid rounds than a player who can raise our defense up.

 

I think last yr a better RB would have got us to the playoffs (at 9-7), but wed have been one and done. The fact that backup qbs shredded us left, right, and center means Oaklands backup could have done the same. I think if we had one playmaker on defense we would have won 2-3 more games and maybe had a shot at beating out Oakland in the playoffs. 

[will426]

3 minutes ago, Jact.stark said:

I don't remember very well the stat but it's something like the Colts Offense has to score 30+ to secure the game, i think is the highest of any team saying that we can't justify the pick that only would aggravate the problem to have a great offense but not having a defense.

If you remember we lost a couple of close games because the defense was nonexistent on the final drive, i agree that we could draft Cook as the BPA and i would add that Gore is old and he doesn't have the explosives to make plays and Cook would improve greatly the Colts game.

 

But i don't like the idea of paying a premium for a RB when this class is LOADED of RB talent, i know that most people wouldn't like the idea of drafting Mixon but i can see us picking him and that would be a steal in the 3-4.

 

If Barnett, Foster or even if Cunningham is at the 14 i would pull the trigger because we don't have a pass rusher and we are about to have 0 experience at the position (LB).

I agree with you on the defense seeming nonexistent on the final drives of games but last couple years the times when our crappy defense made Key stops the offense was just as bad Becuase they couldn't score nor convert third downs many times in games...then we'd play hurry up and score quick in the 4th qtr and you're asking the crappy defense to "hold up" and make that final stop after the offense couldn't score when they made the earlier key stops lol works both ways 

[Jact.stark]

3 minutes ago, will426 said:

I agree with you on the defense seeming nonexistent on the final drives of games but last couple years the times when our crappy defense made Key stops the offense was just as bad Becuase they couldn't score nor convert third downs many times in games...then we'd play hurry up and score quick in the 4th qtr and you're asking the crappy defense to "hold up" and make that final stop after the offense couldn't score when they made the earlier key stops lol works both ways 

But then again, the problem with the Offense is that they don't have rhythm and Luck seems to understand his peers that's when the offense shines(no-huddle) not when they go with a game plan that doesn't fit the rhythm if our OC can get it we have the talent to score it's not about having the players is that they don't connect, if we draft Cook we still have the problem with the rhythm and we could miss use him.

[CR91]

I love dalvin. I've watched plenty of tape of him and I'm convinced he'll be that featured back we haven't had in over a decade. Everyone that hates the idea of taking dalvin can't tell me who else they rather have. Thomas won't get out of the top ten, Barrett I honestly can't see getting past the saints, foster and hooker are going top ten. 

[pgt_rob]

13 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Absolutely. The thing is, we have a 1000 yd rusher on team already, we dont even have a 5 sack pass rusher, let alone a double digit guy. We can improve our rushing numbers simply by getting a change of pace guy with big play potential. That is much easier to find in the mid rounds than a player who can raise our defense up.

 

I think last yr a better RB would have got us to the playoffs (at 9-7), but wed have been one and done. The fact that backup qbs shredded us left, right, and center means Oaklands backup could have done the same. I think if we had one playmaker on defense we would have won 2-3 more games and maybe had a shot at beating out Oakland in the playoffs. 

 

I agree... I mean, all we have is Erik Walden who is a free agent. If we don't re-sign him, it's almost a sign that we could hop on a pass rusher with our pick in my opinion. Walden put up 11 sacks this season, but he's not exactly someone to rely on and he will be 32 years old by next season.

[Nesjan3]

I would love Cook i think he is going to be a stellar back in the NFL, but as i posted in another topic, our offense is good enough to keep up to anyone in the league, but our defense resembles a high school team trying to make it in the NFL, going by this logic i dont think CB has any choice but to focus hard on D this draft.

[bap1331]

I think we need one speedy, elusive rb and one bowling ball type runningback. Those tamdems tend to tire out defenses. Its like what the pats do with blount.

 

Sent from my SM-G935T *

 

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Chris Ballard isn't drafting a rb in the 1st. Not even gonna name the dozen reasons why.  Just no. 

[CR91]

1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Chris Ballard isn't drafting a rb in the 1st. Not even gonna name the dozen reasons why.  Just no. 

 

So who do you suggest we take and dont just say some kind of pass rusher because they'll be gone

[ar1888]

I'm more worried about his checkered past  then anything. He was charged with 3 different crimes while at Florida State.  His 13 fumbles also a concern. If the Colts are going to gamble with a RB I would rather them take Joe Mixon in the 3rd round. Too big of a risk in the 1st IMO

[NewColtsFan]

34 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

So who do you suggest we take and dont just say some kind of pass rusher because they'll be gone

 

 

The pass rushers are going to be gone at 14/15?

 

Who knew?

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 2/21/2017 at 9:35 AM, bananabucket said:

If Cook is available it seems like a no-brainer to me.  Unless Garrett has a video leaked of him smoking weed with a gas mask

 

Come on now!      When was the last time a player --- any players --- had a video released of him wearing a gas mask while smoking weed, and the tape gets released hours before the draft?!?

 

I mean when does that EVER happen?!?                                

[CR91]

20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

The pass rushers are going to be gone at 14/15?

 

Who knew?

 

 

You honestly think Barrett hooker foster or Thomas will still be available?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

57 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

So who do you suggest we take and dont just say some kind of pass rusher because they'll be gone

You really think Thomas, Mckinnley, Barnett and Williams will all be gone? I don't. Quincy Wilson, Sidney Jones or even Marlon Humphrey. Taco, Zach Cunningham, Hassan Reddick. 

[twfish]

I have a very bi-polar opinion of cook. Some days I'd like him in the first, other days I'm mehhh about it then there's days like today where I don't want anything to do with him. I continually watch tape of him mostly rewatch now. The only perceived notion that put him above others was he had a little better power than some others but I really am not seeing it and see that he's a much better receiving back and a home run hitter and I'd much much rather have McCaffery for the role. Especially if somehow he dropped to the second and mixon in the third.

[akcolt]

58 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

You really think Thomas, Mckinnley, Barnett and Williams will all be gone? I don't. Quincy Wilson, Sidney Jones or even Marlon Humphrey. Taco, Zach Cunningham, Hassan Reddick. 

I don't.  I'm guessing Williams will be around the weed is going to cost him. Thomas and Taco are becoming the 2 I'm most interested in at 15

 

Hunt McNichols and Mixon have been the RB's I have had my eye on from the beginning. 

 

Cook has his issues too and not just fumbles. He started in HS with robbery then firing and possessing a firearm on school property. Then the 2015 battery charges outside a bar. He just hasn't had any consequences as charges were dropped in HS dismissed in Tallahassee. 

[gacoop1]

D Cook, this one is no brainer.  Then, move up and draft blue chip edge, ILB and DL.  That simple....

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

You honestly think Barrett hooker foster or Thomas will still be available?

 

Well....   Hooker is a safety, so I'm not sure who else you're referring to.

 

Foster is a middle linebacker, and I don't see pass rush coming from him.

 

Thomas will be long gone.      Barrett goes off the board first.

 

But Barnett might be there...   Charlton might be there....    McKinley might be there and Williams might be there.

 

So,  there's four names and at least one should be there and possibly,  even probably more than one.

 

 

[Luck 4 president]

On 2/21/2017 at 9:37 AM, Shive said:

What I look at in a draft like this is the drop-off in talent between the top tier and the next tier. ILB has a huge talent drop-off outside of the top 2 or 3. EDGE has a decent drop-off as well. RB doesn't have much of a drop-off. You can find starting quality RB's in the 3rd & 4th rounds. Because of this, the positions with a steeper drop-off in talent present a better value. I'm all for BPA, but I don't think it's ever that black and white.

 

Add to this that Cook has a HUGE fumbling problem and I'll pass. I think Kareem Hunt in the 3rd would present much better value and you can count his career fumbles on one hand..

This is EXACTLY what I've been preaching for quite sometime. This is a loaded draft at many positions of need for us; however, the defensive positions are front loaded while we can get a franchise back in the 4th. If we draft well, I expect to get 5 or 6 starters from the draft alone.

[Luck 4 president]

29 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   Hooker is a safety, so I'm not sure who else you're referring to.

 

Foster is a middle linebacker, and I don't see pass rush coming from him.

 

Thomas will be long gone.      Barrett goes off the board first.

 

But Barnett might be there...   Charlton might be there....    McKinley might be there and Williams might be there.

 

So,  there's four names and at least one should be there and possibly,  even probably more than one.

 

 

If Foster is there I would take him and get Carl Lawson in the 2nd. If not I would be happy with Taco, Takk, or Barnett in the first then a CB in the second. Adoree or  Chidobe Awuzie are studs I wouldn't mind having

[AZColt11]

Dalvin Cook is an amazing talent.  I would love to have him.   I just don't think we can afford to take him over a defensive player at this point.

[CR91]

3 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

You really think Thomas, Mckinnley, Barnett and Williams will all be gone? I don't. Quincy Wilson, Sidney Jones or even Marlon Humphrey. Taco, Zach Cunningham, Hassan Reddick. 

 

Thomas has never had to stand up, McKinley would be a reach at 14, Barnett won't get past the saints, Williams isn't that impressive to me and horrible character. If we address CB and DL through free agency like I expect then those two positions are highly unlikely to be our first pick.

[CR91]

Read my last post and taco is top ten

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Thomas has never had to stand up, McKinley would be a reach at 14, Barnett won't get past the saints, Williams isn't that impressive to me and horrible character. If we address CB and DL through free agency like I expect then those two positions are highly unlikely to be our first pick.

Doesn't matter if he's "never had to stand up". He would fit he is a beast.  I'm not the biggest Takk fan, but he is NOT a reach and you'll agree after the combine. You don't know if the Saints will take Barnett. Williams is impressive to everyone else. And I'm sure Taco will be there at #15 also, have not heard of him going in the top 10 yet. And even if we did get a DL through free agency, we are building through the draft. Getting a new #1 corner is very much needed also. All of those players/positions I named are better value AND a better need. 

 

Also so funny how you only notice Tims flaws, when Cook has been in trouble more than he has. And also can't block and fumbles a lot. 

 

We're not drafting a RB in the 1st round. 

[CR91]

10 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Doesn't matter if he's "never had to stand up". He would fit he is a beast.  I'm not the biggest Takk fan, but he is NOT a reach and you'll agree after the combine. You don't know if the Saints will take Barnett. Williams is impressive to everyone else. And I'm sure Taco will be there at #15 also, have not heard of him going in the top 10 yet. And even if we did get a DL through free agency, we are building through the draft. Getting a new #1 corner is very much needed also. All of those players/positions I named are better value AND a better need. 

 

Also so funny how you only notice Tims flaws, when Cook has been in trouble more than he has. And also can't block and fumbles a lot. 

 

We're not drafting a RB in the 1st round. 

 

Fumbling is an easy fix and he got in trouble as a teen, who hasn't. Williams off the field issues are well documented and actually he can pass block. Go watch tape

 

As for taco and Barnett, I've seen them mocked to the jets and saints respectively a number of times and that's before the combine and pro day when their stock will rise