Ballard and Draft Trades

[BProland85]

I'm about to research to see if in his history Ballard and Dorsey had history of draft trades that netted them extra picks.

 

With saying that, could you see him as an aggressive GM ala Jon Robinson from last year for the Titans in trading draft picks? 

 

Would love seeing Ballard work some trade magic and getting the better of a draft day deal. 

[CheezyColt]

With absolutely nothing to base this on, I get a more laid back vibe from Ballard. If I had to guess, I'd think he stays put more often than not. I'm a huge fan of trading down for future picks in an earlier round, or an additional couple picks this year... but for some reason I feel like Ballard is going to stay put and take what comes to him.  Don't know why I feel that way, but I do, lol.

[BProland85]

4 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

With absolutely nothing to base this on, I get a more laid back vibe from Ballard. If I had to guess, I'd think he stays put more often than not. I'm a huge fan of trading down for future picks in an earlier round, or an additional couple picks this year... but for some reason I feel like Ballard is going to stay put and take what comes to him.  Don't know why I feel that way, but I do, lol.

 

I just hope he sees the draft in terms of value as well as evaluating the best player available. 

 

What I mean by value is determining if you can still get the player you want after moving back. I personally can't stand overdrafting or reaching for players. 

[CheezyColt]

I hope so too! As long as he builds and follows his board correctly, and doesn't try to get cute (Werner over Rhodes, Dorsett over Brown/Collins) while taking BPA, I'll be ok, haha.

[MPStack]

Personally, I don`t think its a deep draft and hope the Colts stay where there at 14-15. Ballard really needs to nail his 1st pick with the Colts, and trading down might not be the best option in this draft.

[BProland85]

2 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Personally, I don`t think its a deep draft and hope the Colts stay where there at 14-15. Ballard really needs to nail his 1st pick with the Colts, and trading down might not be the best option in this draft.

 

Its a deep draft at CB, S, and RB. All are positions of need for the Colts. 

[MPStack]

Just now, BProland85 said:

 

Its a deep draft at CB, S, and RB. All are positions of need for the Colts. 

I agree, but the two S are top ten, 2 RB most likely 15 and a couple CB will probably go before pick 15. With that being said, I don`t want a RB in the 1st, but I wouldn`t meltdown like half the board would. There are just to many good reasons having Cook as next years starting RB for the Colts to even type about. That leaves the CB position and I think farther they trade down you don`t get the tier #1`s at the CB position. Lattimore will be gone, so that leaves Wilson and Jones. I`d take either over most of the Edge players. Anyways, just my two cents! I really enjoy everyone own opinions which vary greatly here. 

[BProland85]

11 minutes ago, MPStack said:

I agree, but the two S are top ten, 2 RB most likely 15 and a couple CB will probably go before pick 15. With that being said, I don`t want a RB in the 1st, but I wouldn`t meltdown like half the board would. There are just to many good reasons having Cook as next years starting RB for the Colts to even type about. That leaves the CB position and I think farther they trade down you don`t get the tier #1`s at the CB position. Lattimore will be gone, so that leaves Wilson and Jones. I`d take either over most of the Edge players. Anyways, just my two cents! I really enjoy everyone own opinions which vary greatly here. 

 

I respect your opinion as well, but I'd happily take Takk McKinley/Sidney Jones/Malik McDowell and an added 2nd round draft pick after a trade down over staying put and taking Cook.

[UKColt13]

During his time at KC (2013-2016) this is KC's drafts.

 

2014 Draft:

Rd1: Stayed at #23, took Dee Ford

Rd2: Was traded previously to SF in exchange for Alex Smith

Rd3: Stayed at #87, took Phillip Gaines

Rd4: Stayed at #124, took De'Anthony Thomas

Rd5: Stayed at #163, took Aaron Murray

Rd6: Stayed at #193, took Zac Fulton

Rd6: Picked up in trade a year or 2 before the draft. Selected Laurent Duvernay-Tardif

Got Cairo Santos as UDFA

 

2015 Draft:

Rd1: Stayed at #18, took Marcus Peters

Rd2: Stayed at #49, took Mitch Morse

Rd3: Traded up from #80 to #76, giving up a 6th, took Chris Conley

Rd3 (Comp): Took Steven Nelson

Rd4: Stayed at #118, took Ramik Wilson

Rd5: Traded to NO in exchange for Ben Grubbs

Rd5 (Comp): Took DJ Alexander

Rd5 (Comp): Took James O'Shaughnessy

Rd6: Lost in trade up

Rd6 (Comp): Took Rakeem Nunes-Roches

Rd7: Stayed at #223, took D'aron Brown

 

2016 Draft:

Rd1: Traded #28 and #249 to SF, received #37, #105 (4th) and #178 (6th)

Rd2 (#37): Took Chris Jones

Rd2: Traded #59 to TB, received #74 (3rd) & #106 (4th)

Rd3 (#74): Took Keivarae Russell

Rd3: Pick forfeited due to violation of anti-tampering policy.

Rd4 (#105): Took Parker Ehinger

Rd4 (#106): Took Eric Murray

Rd4: Stayed at #126, took Demarcus Robinson

Rd5 (#162): Picked up by trading away Kelcie McCray, took Kevin Hogan

Rd5: Stayed at #165, took Tyreek Hill

Rd6 (#178): Took DJ White

Rd6: Stayed at #203, took Dadi Nicholas

 

Those are the 3 drafts that he had a hand in at KC.

 

Do with that info what you will.

 

[NannyMcafee]

55 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

Its a deep draft at CB, S, and RB. All are positions of need for the Colts. 

 

If it's so deep at RB why do so many want one early?

[Finball]

I'd assume that losing a 3rd rounder due to tampering played a big role in those two trade downs by the Chiefs last year, recouping some draft capital.

[OffensivelyPC]

25 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

If it's so deep at RB why do so many want one early?

I'm with people on the understanding that you really shouldn't draft an RB in the first round, particularly as high as we would to get Cook.  At the same token, just because a class is deep at something doesn't mean you should automatically put it off until later in the draft.  No matter what slot you are drafting at, you still might miss out on your guy.

[MPStack]

55 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

If it's so deep at RB why do so many want one early?

 

You're starting to beat a dead horse. Everyone`s entitled to their own opinions. If they want a back early, so be it! I want a RB early, but not in the 1st Rd. His name is J. Mixon. I like being different.

[NannyMcafee]

2 minutes ago, MPStack said:

You're starting to beat a dead horse. Everyone`s entitled to their own opinions. If they want a back early, so be it! I want a RB early, but not in the 1st Rd. His name is J. Mixon. I like being different.

 

You have seen what I feel about drafting one early. Maybe not everyone has. I was asking a question, and a legitimate one at that, without stating my opinion on it. I could live with a RB in round 3, and I could accept one in round 2. But I have seen many want one in the 1st round after we just watched the colts have the worst pass rush in colts history. We just watched back up QBs march down the field at will on our defense routinely. I just don't understand wanting a RB that early after what we just witnessed. But to each their own brother. 

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

You have seen what I feel about drafting one early. Maybe not everyone has. I was asking a question, and a legitimate one at that, without stating my opinion on it. I could live with a RB in round 3, and I could accept one in round 2. But I have seen many want one in the 1st round after we just watched the colts have the worst pass rush in colts history. We just watched back up QBs march down the field at will on our defense routinely. I just don't understand wanting a RB that early after what we just witnessed. But to each their own brother. 

 

Fair enough and I feel ya man! I don`t think drafting a RB in the 1st, is the best route for the Colts either. However, say they do and Cook has the impact that Zeke had with Dallas did. It becomes a great pick and benefits the defense to some degree. I think that what some folks here probably are thinking if the Colts get a great RB to pair with Luck. It makes the offense and Luck much better and keeps the porous defense off the field. Just my two cents man! Respect your opinion though!

[NannyMcafee]

1 minute ago, MPStack said:

Fair enough and I feel ya man! I don`t think drafting a RB in the 1st, is the best route for the Colts either. However, say they do and Cook has the impact that Zeke had with Dallas did. It becomes a great pick and benefits the defense to some degree. I think that what some folks here probably are thinking if the Colts get a great RB to pair with Luck. It makes the offense and Luck much better and keeps the porous defense off the field. Just my two cents man! Respect your opinion though!

 

Hey let me rephrase. Anything that makes the colts better I will support it in the end. 

[MPStack]

Just now, NannyMcafee said:

 

Hey let me rephrase. Anything that makes the colts better I will support it in the end. 

 

At the end of the day, we all do! However, there's a little bit of wanting to be a GM in all of us.

[dgambill]

I think it depends who is there and who we are targeting. If we are targeting say a OLB or RB and that top tier is all gone maybe we move down so we don't over draft a guy. We move from 14 back to 15-20 we likely get a 4th and something extra. We got 20-25 we likely get a 3rd. Further 25-30 than we get a 2nd plus maybe. So depending where we find the value and who is on the board we may say yeah...our top graded guys are gone. We have a bunch at the next tier and can move back and grab one we like and now pick up additional picks..he would do it. I don't think we move back at all if Foster or one of those top edge guys are there. I think last year was a perfect season to move back....still could have got Kelly maybe and if it didn't work out we still had guys like Martin and Whitehair expected to be available at our rd 2 pick. This year I expect a difference maker to be there at 14-15 and we stay put. Who knows... he may even use our 3rd to move up since we have that extra 4th for a guy he wants if he is probably going off the board. So we could jump close to 10 and get ahead of a team. Hard to tell how aggressive he will be. I'd say the one thing that falls on GM is trades. Scouts/personnel guys tell you who to go after help you rate your guys but I very much doubt they have any say in trades. The GM decides how bad he wants them or how he wants to plan his board. I don't think we can tell about trades with Ballard. That will be interesting to see how aggressive he is.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

I respect your opinion as well, but I'd happily take Takk McKinley/Sidney Jones/Malik McDowell and an added 2nd round draft pick after a trade down over staying put and taking Cook.

 

The chances of trading back and getting a TWO are incredibly small.     It just doesn't happen very often.

 

And picking 14/15,  to move back and get a two, would mean moving down roughly 10 spots.

 

Suddenly we'd be picking 24/25.         Personally?     No thanks.

 

[BProland85]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The chances of trading back and getting a TWO are incredibly small.     It just doesn't happen very often.

 

And picking 14/15,  to move back and get a two, would mean moving down roughly 10 spots.

 

Suddenly we'd be picking 24/25.         Personally?     No thanks.

 

 

Just last year the Titans trade their  15th overall, 3rd, and 2017 2nd for the 8th pick.

 

Indy could find a trade partner to move down 6 or 7 spots and pick up a 2nd. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

Just last year the Titans trade their  15th overall, 3rd, and 2017 2nd for the 8th pick.

 

Indy could find a trade partner to move down 6 or 7 spots and pick up a 2nd. 

 

I'm not sure you understand.

 

I order to get that,  the Titans had to move from 3RD OVERALL to 15th.     And that's how they got a ton of extra picks, including a TWO.     The two was part of a much, MUCH larger deal.   The deal was so big, that Tennessee got extra picks THIS YEAR as well.    The two was just one more piece.    Deal's like that are rare.

 

I already started a thread weeks ago to specifically address what it costs for the Colts to drop back and get a TWO.     The answer is roughly 10 picks,  NOT 6 or 7.

 

Here's the trade chart.     Take a look for yourself.

 

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=Ind

 

You may want to do a deal like that.      I don't.

 

[BProland85]

45 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not sure you understand.

 

I order to get that,  the Titans had to move from 3RD OVERALL to 15th.     And that's how they got a ton of extra picks, including a TWO.     The two was part of a much, MUCH larger deal.   The deal was so big, that Tennessee got extra picks THIS YEAR as well.    The two was just one more piece.    Deal's like that are rare.

 

I already started a thread weeks ago to specifically address what it costs for the Colts to drop back and get a TWO.     The answer is roughly 10 picks,  NOT 6 or 7.

 

Here's the trade chart.     Take a look for yourself.

 

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=Ind

 

You may want to do a deal like that.      I don't.

 

 

I know I wasn't talking about the trade down the Titans did when they got extra picks. I'm strictly talking about their trade back up to 8 from 15 to get Conklin. 

 

And I don't think the trade chart is a be all end all. Some trades will be better in value for the team that trades down. Especially if the team trading up really wants a certain player. 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

I know I wasn't talking about the trade down the Titans did when they got extra picks. I'm strictly talking about their trade back up to 8 from 15 to get Conklin. 

 

And I don't think the trade chart is a be all end all. Some trades will be better in value for the team that trades down. Especially if the team trading up really wants a certain player. 

 

It's no the number of picks,  it's the total value of the points.      You can move from 8 to 15 (7 picks) and get enough points to collect a 2.       When you're picking that high you don't have to move down quite as far.

 

But moving from 14 to 24 (10 picks) is how get a two.     It's NOT the number of picks.    It's the total POINTS.

 

One team doesn't call the other and say do you want to move 7 picks or 9 picks or 11 picks.     They're trying to match-up points as closely as they can.      It may not be a hard and fast rule and deals are done all the time that don't quite match up,    but moving down to collect a TWO is harder than fans think....

[BProland85]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's no the number of picks,  it's the total value of the points.      You can move from 8 to 15 (7 picks) and get enough points to collect a 2.       When you're picking that high you don't have to move down quite as far.

 

But moving from 14 to 24 (10 picks) is how get a two.     It's NOT the number of picks.    It's the total POINTS.

 

One team doesn't call the other and say do you want to move 7 picks or 9 picks or 11 picks.     They're trying to match-up points as closely as they can.      It may not be a hard and fast rule and deals are done all the time that don't quite match up,    but moving down to collect a TWO is harder than fans think....

 

I guess what I'm saying is I don't completely buy that trades always match value wise for both parties according to the chart. 

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

I guess what I'm saying is I don't completely buy that trades always match value wise for both parties according to the chart. 

True but what he is saying is the value of giving up 7 picks from 8-15 is much much more value because these are the elite players in the draft then say 15-22 where these are border line #1 picks. So your not giving up as much as far as the skill of the player. This your not getting a #2 for that. Your going to have to move basically 12-14 picks to get a second. Roughly to the bottom of the first from where we are. It is very likely the elite very best players in this draft are all gone by the time we pick. There likely won't be a guy worth giving up  a 2nd to move up to our pick. We are right there at that second tier of guys honestly unless something unexpected happens like say some QBs go early which I just don't see happening honestly. There isn't a qb worth drafting in the top 15 if you ask me. If anything we would be the one that might give up a 2 to move up to 8 or a 3 to move up to say 10 to try to get ahead of somebody and get our guy if we have a guy highly rated that falls to that range. I don't see us moving back honestly. I know we have a lot of holes to fill but honestly this might be our last chance to draft this high for a long time. If anything we may say this will be the closest we get to a top 10 pick and go all in. We have an extra 4th and may feel we can afford to give up a 2nd or 3rd to get s special guy.