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How can you deny Tom Brady as the Greatest QB of all time?


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If I could draft any player from any era, to star building an ALL-TIME NFL team, Tom Brady is not going to be my first choice... I can think of a handful of Qbs I would rather have. He is, however, the best player, playing for the best coach, playing in the best system, on the best dynasty the NFL has ever seen. 

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8 hours ago, jskinnz said:

You can't argue it.  Brady is the GOAT.

 

Anyone who would argue otherwise is just talking nonsense.

How much does playing by the rules enter into your definition of "greatness"? I could say Brady is one of the greatest but there will always be that shady part of his career that leaves a stain on his legacy. Rings are a team accomplishment, they are contingent on great coaching, defense and team play. Two of Brady's rings were handed to him by Pete Caroll and Dan Quinn. Had those coaches made the right decisions, this thread wouldn't exist because Brady would be 3-4 in SBs.  Brady is the most accomplished qb in the SB era. Calling him the greatest ignores his lack of character. Since it's so subjective, we'll all have our opinions. In some people's opinion, he is the GOAT. But those of us who factor in playing by the rules as a requirement of being great, he disqualified himself from the discussion.

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One of the greatest?  Sure.  The GOAT?  I don't think so but it depends on what your definition is and many people have differing criteria.  I just use the eye test.  To me, that was John Elway.  He has always been my GOAT.  I would rank Brady top 10, but not my GOAT.  Not even P.Manning.  If it is Superbowl wins, hell Terry Bradshaw had 4 of them and I wouldn't rank that guy in my top 20.  There's more to it for me.  Now Superbowl wins, that's a TEAM accomplishment and if you wanna say the Pats are the GOAT, I would agree with ya.

 

I believe the Pats last two Superbowl "wins" were actually choked away by the opponents.  The Seattle throw from the one on 1st down.  And now Atlanta, who had a 25 point lead, and was AVERAGING 5.8 yards per carry, ran the ball 18 times.  EIGHTEEN TIMES!  Then that last Falcons drive, they just need a FG.   They are WELL in FG territory.  What do they do?  Run a pass play, watch the guy coming at him, and instead of throwing the ball away he eats it.  Then on the next play a holding penalty.  Good bye FG and Superbowl, here come the Pats!

 

I believe what we witness when teams play the Pats is what I call the Belichick Effect.  They try to outsmart him and his coaches to the point where they actually do what keeps them from winning.  And it makes NO sense.  I'm betting after they watch the tape, they are kicking themselves.  But by that point of course it is too late.  IMHO Belichick is the GOAT.  Brady is riding on those coattails a little bit.  Good for him, I don't hate on him for it.  No doubt also that the Pats are the GOAT as well.

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lol I understand we're all colts fans and what not but 95% of you sound like some haters..I'll get some backlash obviously but damn they just came back from a 25py deficit in the Super Bowl and Brady was flawless second half and on the ot drive..that man has 5 rings..bring up all the "gates" you want they were punished for everything and what did they do..Won some more rings time for the hate to stop..now feel free to unleash hell on me lol

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9 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

They tried it vs Jack Del Rio coached Broncos' D in the Broncos 2013 AFCCG but Denver was ready for it when the Patriots scored when they were down 10-26 to get to 16-26 and that score stayed.

 

Like I said, I have watched enough of them to know their tendencies and I felt you had to take advantage of Chung vs TEs, they almost did though Chung has been solid compared to years past. That is why they let Jamie Collins go, because Peyton burned him with Julius Thomas in the 2013 AFCCG and with old man Owen Daniels twice in the 2015 AFCCG that gave them a lead that they hung on to. They now try to play a no-position D with multiple DBs.

 

The outside run plays were similar to what Osweiler and Kubiak ran vs the Patriots with C.J.Anderson running for that OT TD last year. They were successful in the first half but the Patriots adjusted while the Falcons did not. Patriots then clamped up on Matt Ryan's right big time and he stopped looking backside (like Peyton did in that 4th & 2 game once he figured out what Belichick was doing for big gains on the backside with whoever ran across the field to his left). It is a 60 minute chess game with Belichick and Peyton was capable of doing it, Ryan and Shanahan just fell short.

 

Patriots also have a history of injuring RBs in the huddle - Ahmad Bradshaw while playing vs the Colts in 2013 (they had it out for him for the Giants days), LeVeon Bell, and Tevin Coleman today??? :dunno:

Bell it seems had that injury BEFORE the game, but Chef forgot to disclose it. So basically he just reaggrivsted it.  (What happen to Coleman they never showed the replay.)

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2 hours ago, Bad Morty said:

 

1) Playing the worst team to ever make a Super Bowl (Jay Cutler's Bears) was a pretty lucky break

2) Riding the coat-tails of one of the top 5 defenses last year was a pretty lucky break

 

Small point of order for 1 if you're referring to Super Bowl XLI, Jay Cutler did not become a Bear till 2009.

 

To Manning's credit, he instead saw off the mighty Rex Grossman... in the rain no less. 

 

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7 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Small point of order for 1 if you're referring to Super Bowl XLI, Jay Cutler did not become a Bear till 2009.

 

To Manning's credit, he instead saw off the mighty Rex Grossman... in the rain no less. 

 

 

100% correct - my bad

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He ceratinly should be based on his accomplishments but the cheating takes him out of consideration.  If he truly is the greatest then he would have had no reason to cheat.

 

I also find it funny that in order to build up Brady some posters still need to knock Peyton Manning's accomplishments.  Claiming the Bears were the worse team to make the SB and then turning around and saying he was Lucky to play with a top 5 D.  It's funny for two reasons, one, the Bears had the #2 overall defense that year, #1 in TOs and #2 or 3 in scoring (I can't remember which).  And it's additionally funny since the Pats had the #1 scoring D this year ( I guess Brady was just lucky).

 

But nope, Brady is definitely one of the best ever, his command of the field and touch on his throws and ability to always find the right receiver is nearly unparalleled but his cheating takes him out of all consideration.

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1 hour ago, AZColt11 said:

 

I believe the Pats last two Superbowl "wins" were actually choked away by the opponents.  The Seattle throw from the one on 1st down.  

 

I can agree on the Seahawks one but this one, the Patriots still had to execute with 2 two point conversions.

 

However, the same point can be made on the 2 SBs Brady lost as well, lucky catches and breaks for the Giants. If not for the Mannings, Brady and the Pats have more SBs.

 

Ever since Wes Welker left, Patriots are 2-0 in SBs. He was a combined 0-3 with 2 losses with Brady and one with Peyton. He never fought like the feisty Edelman, IMO.

 

The Pats nipped two potential streaks in the making, one against the Rams and another vs the Seahawks.

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I just don't know if Brady would be successful if you put him on another team or with a different coach.  My argument is that without him they still seem to succeed.  They went 3-1 with Garapollo and went 11-5 with M.Cassel.  If it was all Brady the drop off would have been much greater.  Its not like Cassel was that successful for other teams.  He hasn't been an 11-5 qb since.

 

I would say that, even though I really hate the guy, Belichick should be in the GOAT conversation not Brady.  He sees Bradys true strengths and makes sure they shine against ever other teams weaknesses.  But he is able to do it with his other QBs too... so I would say its more on Belichick than Brady.  it will be interesting to see how successful this team is when one of the two retire.

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3 hours ago, Bad Morty said:

 

1) Playing the worst team to ever make a Super Bowl (Jay Cutler's Bears) was a pretty lucky break

2) Riding the coat-tails of one of the top 5 defenses last year was a pretty lucky break

And give him Tom's teams and BB and he makes what Tom has done look like child's play 

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2 hours ago, SteelDragon said:

If I could draft any player from any era, to star building an ALL-TIME NFL team, Tom Brady is not going to be my first choice... I can think of a handful of Qbs I would rather have. He is, however, the best player, playing for the best coach, playing in the best system, on the best dynasty the NFL has ever seen. 

Great post gold to see some people aren't feeding on the media crap 

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I think he is very fortunate to be on a well rounded team, with possibly the best coach ever.  BB is the master of making halftime adjustments.   That was proven once again last night. 

 

No doubt, Tom has accomplished a lot. But I see it as a team, not a one man show there.  Case in point, when he went down, the Pats kept winning.  When he was suspended for cheating, the Pats kept winning.  

 

And meanwhile.....back in Indy, when Peyton went down, well......you know the rest.

 

Peyton will always be the greatest in my eyes.

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3 hours ago, Bad Morty said:

 

1) Playing the worst team to ever make a Super Bowl (Jay Cutler's Bears) was a pretty lucky break

2) Riding the coat-tails of one of the top 5 defenses last year was a pretty lucky break

Are you sure you want to use the defense argument?

 

OK then. 

 

Tom Brady's defenses for all his SB's were: 6th,  1st,  2nd, 6th, 31st, 15th, and this one was ranked 8th.

 

He had one year where his SB didn't have a defense in the top half.  Guess what,  they lost. But they did lose with a top 10 defense as well. But the majority of his team's were in the top half and 5 of the 7 were top 8.

 

I would rethink that argument. 

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20 minutes ago, The Lucky Neck Beard said:

I just don't know if Brady would be successful if you put him on another team or with a different coach.  My argument is that without him they still seem to succeed.  They went 3-1 with Garapollo and went 11-5 with M.Cassel.  If it was all Brady the drop off would have been much greater.  Its not like Cassel was that successful for other teams.  He hasn't been an 11-5 qb since.

 

I would say that, even though I really hate the guy, Belichick should be in the GOAT conversation not Brady.  He sees Bradys true strengths and makes sure they shine against ever other teams weaknesses.  But he is able to do it with his other QBs too... so I would say its more on Belichick than Brady.  it will be interesting to see how successful this team is when one of the two retire.

You're argument is valid. But I often wonder if it's actually a two way street. I think Brady needs the team, but the team also needs Brady to get to, and win so many championships. 

 

I'm not so sure a guy like say, Garappolo, would be able to win the big one. He might be able to help the team to the playoffs, but to be in seven championships and win five of them? I just don't know... Defenses are ridiculously important. A good defense is a must to win. But it isn't the only thing needed to stay consistent. For example: The Denver Broncos. Great defense, but really crappy offense. That worked for one year, but failed the next. 

 

It's a team game. And let's face it: the Patriots team is and has been far better than anyone else at accomplishing this. Great offense with great defense.  

 

Here's another angle worth mentioning: I feel sometimes that wide receivers should get way more credit anyways than the QB. I mean, would Brady have that 5th ring if Edelman doesn't make the circus catch, and just completely dominate in the 4th quarter? :D

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1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

You're argument is valid. But I often wonder if it's actually a two way street. I think Brady needs the team, but the team also needs Brady to get to, and win so many championships. 

 

I'm not so sure a guy like say, Garappolo, would be able to win the big one. He might be able to help the team to the playoffs, but to be in seven championships and win five of them? I just don't know... Defenses are ridiculously important. A good defense is a must to win. But it isn't the only thing needed to stay consistent. For example: The Denver Broncos. Great defense, but really crappy offense. That worked for one year, but failed the next. 

 

It's a team game. And let's face it: the Patriots team is and has been far better than anyone else at accomplishing this. Great offense with great defense.  

 

Here's another angle worth mentioning: I feel sometimes that wide receivers should get way more credit anyways than the QB. I mean, would Brady have that 5th ring if Edelman doesn't make the circus catch, and just completely dominate in the 4th quarter? :D

and this years Pats D was #1 in Points per game too.

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i dont have to acknowledge brady as the goat, its not something i think about

 

it cant be proven with hard facts that anyone is the goat since its a team game, and different eras are different

 

so in my opinion there is no goat!

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4 hours ago, Bad Morty said:

 

1) Playing the worst team to ever make a Super Bowl (Jay Cutler's Bears) was a pretty lucky break

2) Riding the coat-tails of one of the top 5 defenses last year was a pretty lucky break

 

The Bears were not the worst teamsl to ever make the Super Bowl lmao. They were the #1 seed in the NFC and had one of the best defenses and special teams in league history. They were literally the equivalent to the 2015 Broncos only the Bears actually had better QB play.

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Yes, Brady is the G.O.A.T. Of course, it doesn't hurt that the Patriots organization has been THE best-run organization in the league since 2001. They make great decisions, they're second-to-none in talent evaluation, their head coach is brilliant, and their "do-your-job" mantra has instilled a winning culture. I don't think Brady could have made it to 7 Super Bowls in any other organization. I also don't think the Patriots could have made it to 7 Super Bowls without Brady. He has been the lynchpin of their success as a team. So yes, G.O.A.T.

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3 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

The Bears were not the worst teamsl to ever make the Super Bowl lmao. They were the #1 seed in the NFC and had one of the best defenses and special teams in league history. They were literally the equivalent to the 2015 Broncos only the Bears actually had better QB play.

Let's also just ignore the fact that he put "Jay Cutler's"...

 

Um... Jay Cutler was not a Chicago Bear in 2006...

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13 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

You're argument is valid. But I often wonder if it's actually a two way street. I think Brady needs the team, but the team also needs Brady to get to, and win so many championships. 

 

I'm not so sure a guy like say, Garappolo, would be able to win the big one. He might be able to help the team to the playoffs, but to be in seven championships and win five of them? I just don't know... Defenses are ridiculously important. A good defense is a must to win. But it isn't the only thing needed to stay consistent. For example: The Denver Broncos. Great defense, but really crappy offense. That worked for one year, but failed the next. 

 

It's a team game. And let's face it: the Patriots team is and has been far better than anyone else at accomplishing this. Great offense with great defense.  

 

Here's another angle worth mentioning: I feel sometimes that wide receivers should get way more credit anyways than the QB. I mean, would Brady have that 5th ring if Edelman doesn't make the circus catch, and just completely dominate in the 4th quarter? :D

 

That is the thing.

 

First recognizing that Wes Welker was not being used well by the Dolphins in the division and bringing him over in 2007, then recognizing that Edelman was the next Wes Welker and letting Wes Welker go, recognizing that Dion Lewis is not used well in Philly, so bringing him in to play the Kevin Faulk, Shane Vereen etc. role to perfection, recognizing that Chris Hogan was not being used well by the Bills and bringing him over to play the extra slot/Z WR role in case of injuries to Gronk (which happens annually) are all brilliant moves that Belichick has made for their offensive system. Brady's strength is throwing between the numbers and not outside the numbers, so they focus on players perfect for the system.

 

However, Brady's execution is at a high level when things get tight and that cannot be said of all QBs that may put on a Patriots uniform or other elite QBs. So, like you said, it works both ways.

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2 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

One of the greatest?  Sure.  The GOAT?  I don't think so but it depends on what your definition is and many people have differing criteria.  I just use the eye test.  To me, that was John Elway.  He has always been my GOAT.  I would rank Brady top 10, but not my GOAT.  Not even P.Manning.  If it is Superbowl wins, hell Terry Bradshaw had 4 of them and I wouldn't rank that guy in my top 20.  There's more to it for me.  Now Superbowl wins, that's a TEAM accomplishment and if you wanna say the Pats are the GOAT, I would agree with ya.

 

I believe the Pats last two Superbowl "wins" were actually choked away by the opponents.  The Seattle throw from the one on 1st down.  And now Atlanta, who had a 25 point lead, and was AVERAGING 5.8 yards per carry, ran the ball 18 times.  EIGHTEEN TIMES!  Then that last Falcons drive, they just need a FG.   They are WELL in FG territory.  What do they do?  Run a pass play, watch the guy coming at him, and instead of throwing the ball away he eats it.  Then on the next play a holding penalty.  Good bye FG and Superbowl, here come the Pats!

 

I believe what we witness when teams play the Pats is what I call the Belichick Effect.  They try to outsmart him and his coaches to the point where they actually do what keeps them from winning.  And it makes NO sense.  I'm betting after they watch the tape, they are kicking themselves.  But by that point of course it is too late.  IMHO Belichick is the GOAT.  Brady is riding on those coattails a little bit.  Good for him, I don't hate on him for it.  No doubt also that the Pats are the GOAT as well.

The Belichick effect is simple, he doesn't make mistakes on the coaching end, he waits for you to do it and then uses it to his advantage.  Also agree, opposing coaches always seem to overthink everything against him.  Clearly, the Falcons offense just needed to slow the game down and maintain possession, they couldn't do it.   The Patriots played rope a dope with the Falcons defense, letting them continue the pressure until they were completely exhausted.  

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I said it somewhere else...can't find it now but it might even be in this thread (my phone is dying). In a roundabout way this will have helped Manning and even my pick Favre. That Falcons choked. Getting blown out from start to finish in every phase of the game isn't a choke, throwing 1 INT in a game that the checkdown wasn't going to win isn't a choke...that was a choke. 

 

I mean everything happened after the obligatory desperation barnyard trick play. Games are over after those plays. Teams quit, headsets come off, fans leave, but the Falcons let them have it even after that! 

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44 minutes ago, Gramz said:

I think he is very fortunate to be on a well rounded team, with possibly the best coach ever.  BB is the master of making halftime adjustments.   That was proven once again last night. 

 

No doubt, Tom has accomplished a lot. But I see it as a team, not a one man show there.  Case in point, when he went down, the Pats kept winning.  When he was suspended for cheating, the Pats kept winning.  

 

And meanwhile.....back in Indy, when Peyton went down, well......you know the rest.

 

Peyton will always be the greatest in my eyes.

lack of experience in end hurt Falcons
 
Back to back mistakes last 2 drives
 
   1. Freeman misses block allows strip sack, = Brady 8 points
 
   2. u  R in FG range up by 8, time running down, just run ball, use up time or force BB to take time outs & get the easy FG, = up 2 scores , never should of had Ryan take snap and  look for a receiver putting him in position  for  sack & taking out of FG range esp after attempt to throw on 2nd dwn had hold and 10 yard penalty
 
But Brady & BB did the right plays at the right moments , But Falcons never should of let it get  to that tie due to # 2
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also one thing to consider.....notice how bad Brady was until his OL finally their act together. He gets all the credit (and he's still great) but when his OL falters so does he. Which is why I'm sure they had to lure Dante Scarnecchia back out of retirement.

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I'll say this about the "look at how they did with Cassel and Garapollo" arguments...

 

1) The 2008 team (when Cassel filled in)...that team was loaded. This was the famed '18-1' team from the prior year, and they had a very weak schedule in '08. So while it's true that 11-5 is not a shabby record, the reality is that that team would almost certainly have been a 14-2 or 15-1 type team had Brady stayed healthy. Not having him that year probably cost them minimally 3 games, which is a HUGE drop-off in the world of the 16 game schedule

 

2) This year, they went 3-1 without Brady. That is irrefutable fact. But again, I think that has more to do with "luck of the schedule" than "Brady isn't THAT important". Had they opened with Seattle, Denver, Pittsburgh, Buffalo (instead of Arizona, Miami, Houston, Buffalo), I don't think they'd have gone 3-1..

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bad Morty said:

I'll say this about the "look at how they did with Cassel and Garapollo" arguments...

 

1) The 2008 team (when Cassel filled in)...that team was loaded. This was the famed '18-1' team from the prior year, and they had a very weak schedule in '08. So while it's true that 11-5 is not a shabby record, the reality is that that team would almost certainly have been a 14-2 or 15-1 type team had Brady stayed healthy. Not having him that year probably cost them minimally 3 games, which is a HUGE drop-off in the world of the 16 game schedule

 

2) This year, they went 3-1 without Brady. That is irrefutable fact. But again, I think that has more to do with "luck of the schedule" than "Brady isn't THAT important". Had they opened with Seattle, Denver, Pittsburgh, Buffalo (instead of Arizona, Miami, Houston, Buffalo), I don't think they'd have gone 3-1..

 

 

I don't know. This sounds like making excuses. We've seen highly talented teams go 6-10, 3-13, 4-12 and the like before. Many of those teams were one QB, a good defensive front, run game, or good coaching staff away from making a playoff run and it just never happened. The Cassel situation is different and no one can deny it's a great argument. 11-5 is a nice record to have in the NFL where every game is played at such a high level. More often than not, 11-5 probably got you into the playoffs. You couple that with 3-1 for this season and it's clear that the Patriots can have success without Tom Brady. He was just fortunate enough to be there when the team was at its best. 

 

If the Ravens had been more consistent, guys like Trent Dilfer or Joe Flacco could have 4 rings by now. Nobody talks about them as being the greatest. Hell, they're not even in the conversation. Why? Not enough SB wins. I think too often QB's are judged by what they do in the playoffs or SB and little else. Every game in the NFL is a big game because they only play 16. One or two losses could mean the difference between home field or missing the playoffs completely. It's a good thing I don't follow what the media tells me. When I look at a QB, I look at the full body of work. Would anyone really put Bradshaw or Aikmen in the same conversation with Dan Marino with none or Favre with one? Come on lol 

 

You have to look at everything and as far as I'm concerned there are six or seven other guys(probably more)that I'd rather have if I was building a "GOAT" team at every position. Peyton Manning and Marino would be my 1A and 1B.

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10 hours ago, OneNation said:

I don't see how Atlanta doesn't run the ball.

 

You just got the ball back after unsuccessful onside kick and are in New England territory at the 41, up NINETEEEEEEEN points late 3rd

 

First down: 9 yard gain, pass.

Second down: run, holding

2nd and 11 at the 42 RUN THE BALL. You've ran relatively well all game. Ryan throws incomplete pass.

3rd and 11 Ryan takes a sack and out of field goal range.

 

Fast forward to next drive, 8:31 left 3rd and 1 at your own 36. Up SIXTEEEEEEEEEEN. You just ran for 8 yards. RUN THE BALL. Ryan strip sacked and recovered by New England.

 

Fast forward to next drive, 4:40 left at New England 22 yard line up 8 points. Julio Jones has just put the entire city of Atlanta on his back for the culture. RUN THE BALL. They run and lose one yard on first down.

Second down, 3:56 left at the New England 23. RUN THE BALL. We are in the process of depleting the clock and kicking a field goal to gain a two score lead. Atlanta passes and Ryan takes a terrible sack at the 35 yard line. You cannot take this sack, but that is a story for a different day. 3rd down run the ball, take another of New England's timeouts and kick the field goal, you aren't picking up 23 yards for the first down. Atlanta again passes. This time a holding penalty is thrown knocking you out of field goal range. Now it's third and forever and an incomplete pass is thrown. Atlanta punts and Tom goes on his money drive to end regulation. You do not see the ball again on offense with a legitimate chance of getting points.

 

The second half play calling was atrocious in this game for Atlanta. 

I can't agree with you more. That decision to drop back and pass at the 3:56 mark blew me away. I was thinking play it safe, kick a FG and make it a two score ball game all the way. When I saw Ryan drop back, I was thinking...Oh no! The Falcons played right into the Pats' hand.

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I dont know. Once you cheat, you have no credibility.

 

No doubt Falcons should have won last night if it werent for that hold (bad call) that took that out of field goal range. The field goal wouldve sealed the deal. The CB had a facemask on the falcons that wasnt called. Totally unfair.

 

In the end, the NFL needs to profit from the Patriots fan base and the bandwagoners. The NFL knows there is no money in the Falcons market. I think the NFL is just run by the mafia now like boxing. The last real Super Bowl winner was the Colts in 2007. Not a big market but still won fairly.

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Brady, Bill, and the Pats are the greatest of this era....no doubt. However I can only measure him against who he played. Had he played in the 90s against the Cowboys, 49ers, and Packers and those Bills he probably  would be thought of like Jim Kelly...one of the greatest system QBs of all time but maybe not even a SB champ. It was a different era and teams like the Cowboys were some of the greatest ever. Congrats to Brady...the most successful and accomplished qb of all-time. Greatest of this era...and let's leave it at that because while he would be great in any era I can't say he would have the same success outside this era.

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8 minutes ago, bap1331 said:

I dont know. Once you cheat, you have no credibility.

 

No doubt Falcons should have won last night if it werent for that hold (bad call) that took that out of field goal range. The field goal wouldve sealed the deal. The CB had a facemask on the falcons that wasnt called. Totally unfair.

 

In the end, the NFL needs to profit from the Patriots fan base and the bandwagoners. The NFL knows there is no money in the Falcons market. I think the NFL is just run by the mafia now like boxing. The last real Super Bowl winner was the Colts in 2007. Not a big market but still won fairly.

Denver New Orleans Baltimore are not big market teams. They all won fairly

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Just now, runthepost said:

Denver New Orleans Baltimore are not big market teams. They all won fairly

And every one of them had a media hype story to give the NFL views New Orleans fighting back after Katrina Ray Lewis retiring from the Ravens and Peyton Manning going out on top 

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After reading every comment on this thread, i have to say this, there's really no debate anymore or any rational reason to think Brady isn't the GOAT. There have been more arguments for Peyton being better than Brady from that side than anyone, and understandably so as Colts fans. It does reveal something very shocking and disturbing though. By thinking Peyton is better than Brady, are we happier with complete dominance in the regular season, and losing in the playoffs one and done rather than winning playoffs games and getting to the SB? Do individual stats and regular season record mean more to us than championships? Is this the mentality of the Colts fan base? I would say it seems so.

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