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ColtsStrong86

GM Candidates, including Jimmy Raye (merge)

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I just don't think Ballard would bring Toub over if he didn't think he'd do a great job. I don't really believe this Toub stuff though.. having Pagano for a year shouldn't scare away a candidate.. he's not a terrible coach. 

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1 minute ago, krunk said:

Why don't you want him?  

 

No one knows how anyone will be before they get hired,  but I think to me I'd have no problem with sticking with my 49-31 head coach whose won plenty of games before I part with that for the freaking Special Teams coach of another squad simply because he is supposedly "Hard Nosed" and Hollers alot.   If you told me he was being replaced by Kyle Shanahan I'd be okay with that for the most part. Hell I'd even partially be okay with Mcdaniels or one of the other names.  You can list me Bill Bellichick and all that other stuff but at the end of the day we know that is the minority.  It's probably more likely to be the other end of the spectrum.  I just think there could be a better option than that.  But of course I don't make these calls so I can't do anything but accept whatever the outcome is. 

 

He is definitely an unknown until he gets a shot somewhere, that I agree with.  And i'm not saying that someone who "hollers" a lot would make them a good coach... but I do think Pagano is an awful coach, and his record is inflated by the season that BA coached while he was out battling illness... that said, I don't/didn't want BA as HC, either... I don't like his offense, didn't like Pep's offense and I don't like Chud's offense...perhaps that's on them, perhaps they're calling the game like Pagano wants them to?

I would like to see a more West Coast style passing game, with Luck getting that ball out quickly...our o-line, while not top notch, would be greatly masked by a quicker attach, as so many others in the NFL (and in Colts' history) have been.

 

What I do know, is that I cant stand all of the pats on the butt, hand clapping and chopping wood, while we are wasting years from Luck's career, with a team that lacks talent, toughness and even fundamentals at so many levels.  Those things fall at the feet of the GM and the HC...we are looking to hire the GM to take us to the level we want to achieve, but in doing so, will we trust his judgment on a HC  hire?  If not, then he shouldn't be the GM...that's just my opinion.

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2 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I just don't think Ballard would bring Toub over if he didn't think he'd do a great job. I don't really believe this Toub stuff though.. having Pagano for a year shouldn't scare away a candidate.. he's not a terrible coach. 

He's a bottom 5 coach in the league. 

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2 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I just don't think Ballard would bring Toub over if he didn't think he'd do a great job. I don't really believe this Toub stuff though.. having Pagano for a year shouldn't scare away a candidate.. he's not a terrible coach. 

I think all the Toub talk is coming from the fake wells account 

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

I think all the Toub talk is coming from the fake wells account 

The Toub talk is actually coming from the real Brad Wells account. 

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1 minute ago, ManningGM said:

The Toub talk is actually coming from the real Brad Wells account. 

The ones a few pages back? 

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9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I don't want him cause I personally want an offensive minded coach I really want Kyle Shanahan  but he's going to stupid SF I'd also take McDaniels.

I'd take either one of them over a guy with no experience other than special teams.     I  just think there's better candidates out there between this year and next year.  I'm content with Pagano for 2017 and just simply improving the defensive side of the roster unless you bring me a big fish out of somewhere or Shanahan.  Mcdaniels I don't think is a possibility because I've just not seen Irsay deal much in New England anything other than their players.  I have my issues with Gruden, but I know he knows the game for sure.  I just don't like the fact that Gruden was in Tampa for about 6 years after that Super Bowl win and they won  one playoff game.   That bothers me.     To me if we had a competent defense last year I feel like we would have won at least 4 of those games we lost.   I'm almost certain of it. 

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I also feel like Pagano's record is more a result of Andrew Luck than of Pagano's abilities.  Luck has a huge number of comeback wins, which seem to happen when the game calls are taken away from Pagano and given to Luck.

Pagano seems like a good guy...maybe he is, maybe he isn't, I don't really know.  But I just feel like he's in way over his head, and looks like a deer in the headlights more often than not.

 

Just out of curiosity, i'd like to see which coaches in the NFL everyone honestly things are WORSE than Pagano?  Meaning if you give them Andrew Luck and this team, who would actually have a worse record right now than Chuck does?

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1 minute ago, krunk said:

I'd take either one of them over a guy with no experience other than special teams.     I  just think there's better candidates out there between this year and next year.  I'm content with Pagano for 2017 unless you bring me a big fish out of somewhere or Shanahan.  Mcdaniels I don't think is a possibility because I've just not seen Irsay deal much in New England anything other than their players.  I have my issues with Gruden, but I know he knows the game for sure.  I just don't like the fact that Gruden was in Tampa for about 6 years after that Super Bowl win and they won  one playoff game.   That bothers me.

I think there are better candidates then Toub too if not this year then there should be more next offseason

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I'm not saying I WANT Toub, either... just saying that I wouldn't dismiss him because of being a ST coach.

 

I think Gruden's offense would make Luck really shine... I think my top choice would be Jim Harbaugh because of what he's done in the NFL and also the fact that he knows Luck so well... i'd also rather have a big fish/big name proven coach, but there just aren't many out there looking for a job. 

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41 minutes ago, ManningGM said:

That certainly would not be a deal breaker. 

You make no sense if the owner wants to keep the current coach and the the guy that he is offering the job does not then yes that is deal breaker 

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5 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

I also feel like Pagano's record is more a result of Andrew Luck than of Pagano's abilities.  Luck has a huge number of comeback wins, which seem to happen when the game calls are taken away from Pagano and given to Luck.

Pagano seems like a good guy...maybe he is, maybe he isn't, I don't really know.  But I just feel like he's in way over his head, and looks like a deer in the headlights more often than not.

 

Just out of curiosity, i'd like to see which coaches in the NFL everyone honestly things are WORSE than Pagano?  Meaning if you give them Andrew Luck and this team, who would actually have a worse record right now than Chuck does?

That's everyones out when they judge Chuck.  "Oh it was Andrew Luck" but you still have to explain to me about these other coaches in the leauge with just as good a QB and Chucks record is better even with Luck being injured in 2015.  So are we now saying that Mike Mcoy is a less competent coach than Pagano?  Are we now saying Sean Payton is less competent?  There's other names as well. 

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Really like McDaniels. If the job is on the table, I think he would leave NE for Luck. He has his QB in Indy, unlike Denver. I believe the reciever group is superior to the Pats, and his offense has masked some O-line deficiencies in the past.

 

It's going to take a bit to get that defense up to scratch but with the right D-coordinator and a few good draft picks and FA pick ups, we could win the South with McDaniels.

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2 minutes ago, Zach Boyd said:

You make no sense if the owner wants to keep the current coach and the the guy that he is offering the job does not then yes that is deal breaker 

This franchise is in shambles if that's the case. Pagano has proven year after year that he isn't the coach that can take you to the promise lands. 

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3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'd take either one of them over a guy with no experience other than special teams.     I  just think there's better candidates out there between this year and next year.  I'm content with Pagano for 2017 unless you bring me a big fish out of somewhere or Shanahan.  Mcdaniels I don't think is a possibility because I've just not seen Irsay deal much in New England anything other than their players.  I have my issues with Gruden, but I know he knows the game for sure.  I just don't like the fact that Gruden was in Tampa for about 6 years after that Super Bowl win and they won  one playoff game.   That bothers me.

You also have to realize that he could hire good offensive minds on his staff. But also that ST's comes with an understanding of offense and defense so it's more of a well rounded position. I'm sure Toub knows his X's and O's.

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Just now, krunk said:

That's everyones out when they judge Chuck.  "Oh it was Andrew Luck" but you still have to explain to me about these other coaches in the leauge with just as good a QB and Chucks record is better even with Luck being injured in 2015.  So are we now saying that Mike Mcoy is a less competent coach than Pagano?  Are we now saying Sean Payton is less competent?  Theirs other names as well. 

 

McCoy and Payton both coach in much tougher divisions than Pagano does... and there aren't, in my opinion, many coaches in the NFL with a QB "just as good" as Luck.

 

What is Pagano's record when you take away the wins/losses from the year that he missed?  What is his record OUTSIDE of the AFC South?  What is his record against winning teams or on the road?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

I'm not saying I WANT Toub, either... just saying that I wouldn't dismiss him because of being a ST coach.

 

I think Gruden's offense would make Luck really shine... I think my top choice would be Jim Harbaugh because of what he's done in the NFL and also the fact that he knows Luck so well... i'd also rather have a big fish/big name proven coach, but there just aren't many out there looking for a job. 

I'd take Harbaugh in a minute, but that doesn't seem to be reality.   Harbaugh I think would be tighter on the details and really draw the line between his expectations and the personal relationships.

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11 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

I'm not saying I WANT Toub, either... just saying that I wouldn't dismiss him because of being a ST coach.

 

I think Gruden's offense would make Luck really shine... I think my top choice would be Jim Harbaugh because of what he's done in the NFL and also the fact that he knows Luck so well... i'd also rather have a big fish/big name proven coach, but there just aren't many out there looking for a job. 

This.

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Just now, krunk said:

I'd take Harbaugh in a minute, but that doesn't seem to be reality.   Harbaugh I think would be tighter on the details and really draw the line between his expectations and the personal relationships.

 

I agree.  When I mentioned that Toub was known as a hard nosed/no nonsense guy, that's what is appealing to me... someone that is strict on the details, holds players accountable, knows his Xs and Os and everyone knows their expectations.  Most successful coaches aren't known as "buddy buddy" with the players, but as someone they respect, no matter what.

 

I agree that Jim Harbaugh isn't likely to leave Michigan anytime soon, that's why i'm not holding out hope for him...and if Gruden isn't coming back...Cowher/Mike Shannahan etc are so far removed from their "glory days" etc, I just don't see any big name/big fish/slam dunk hires out there... ultimately you're taking a chance on who you believe will get the job done, whether that be Kyle Shannahan, McDaniels, Toub etc...they're all really "unknown" until they become a HC...and then, they're no longer doing what got them hired in the first place, as they almost always hire a OC/DC etc

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6 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

 

McCoy and Payton both coach in much tougher divisions than Pagano does... and there aren't, in my opinion, many coaches in the NFL with a QB "just as good" as Luck.

 

What is Pagano's record when you take away the wins/losses from the year that he missed?  What is his record OUTSIDE of the AFC South?  What is his record against winning teams or on the road?

 

 

I believe 22-24 or 24-22

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5 minutes ago, krunk said:

That's everyones out when they judge Chuck.  "Oh it was Andrew Luck" but you still have to explain to me about these other coaches in the leauge with just as good a QB and Chucks record is better even with Luck being injured in 2015.  So are we now saying that Mike Mcoy is a less competent coach than Pagano?  Are we now saying Sean Payton is less competent?  There's other names as well. 

The Saints have only just recently been on the decline. And Payton and Bree's won a super bowl so that argument is invalid. Mike McCoy had what 2 playoff appearances and 1 win? That's not terrible. It's hard to say who's the better coach between him and Pagano. But Chuck also benefited from the weak division he played in more than having Luck. We know this is true because the division got slightly better this year and even with Luck for 15 games, he couldn't win it. Chuck's record is way inflated for various reasons.

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2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

You also have to realize that he could hire good offensive minds on his staff. But also that ST's comes with an understanding of offense and defense so it's more of a well rounded position. I'm sure Toub knows his X's and O's.

We already have a good offense in place.  The line needs to be shored up a little more and add a running back.   I personally think being patient could yield a more proven head coach if for some reason you want to fire Pagano.   Like I said the guy we have in place has gotten us to the playoffs on 3 different occasions, he ain't just turned into a nincompoop(did I spell that right?) overnight.  Without Grigson making the decisions this time around you add better pieces in the draft and make smart FA moves and I think we are a better defensive team this year.  I think we win more games with a better defense.  It's just my take on things, I'm sure you'll have your disagreements as always, but you usually bring up decent points. 

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23 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I just don't think Ballard would bring Toub over if he didn't think he'd do a great job. I don't really believe this Toub stuff though.. having Pagano for a year shouldn't scare away a candidate.. he's not a terrible coach. 

I don't think Jim would let him bring Taub over.  After interviewing Gruden and discussing Payton and who knows how many other former head coaches I think it's pretty clear the next coach won't be a 1st. timer.  He has great GM choices to choose from.  He doesn't have to go along with that demand if it's even true.

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3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

The Saints have only just recently been on the decline. And Payton and Bree's won a super bowl so that argument is invalid. Mike McCoy had what 2 playoff appearances and 1 win? That's not terrible. It's hard to say who's the better coach between him and Pagano. But Chuck also benefited from the weak division he played in more than having Luck. We know this is true because the division got slightly better this year and even with Luck for 15 games, he couldn't win it. Chuck's record is way inflated for various reasons.

It's not invalid, you have no excuse for losing the way the Saints are.  No one would tolerate Pagano being out of the playoffs for 3 straight years with a healthy Andrew Luck.   The Saints have better personnel than the Colts and their division on more than one occasion has been just as bad.  And to make it worse you're not even 8-8.   What does the Super Bowl have to do with much?   Like you told all of us before "What have you done for me Lately?"

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3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I don't think Jim would let him bring Taub over.  After interviewing Gruden and discussing Payton and who knows how many other former head coaches I think it's pretty clear the next coach won't be a 1st. timer.  He has great GM choices to choose from.  He doesn't have to go along with that demand if it's even true.

Like I said, I don't really believe the Toub stuff. Don't see him turning down this job because he has to wait 1 year for Toub/another coach. 

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3 minutes ago, krunk said:

We already have a good offense in place.  The line needs to be shored up a little more and add a running back.   I personally think being patient could yield a more proven head coach if for some reason you want to fire Pagano.   Like I said the guy we have in place has gotten us to the playoffs on 3 different occasions, he ain't just turned into a nincompoop(did I spell that right?) overnight.  Without Grigson making the decisions this time around you add better pieces in the draft and make smart FA moves and I think we are a better defensive team this year.  I think we win more games with a better defense.  It's just my take on things, I'm sure you'll have your disagreements as always, but you usually bring up decent points. 

 

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

We already have a good offense in place.  The line needs to be shored up a little more and add a running back.   I personally think being patient could yield a more proven head coach if for some reason you want to fire Pagano.   Like I said the guy we have in place has gotten us to the playoffs on 3 different occasions, he ain't just turned into a nincompoop(did I spell that right?) overnight.  Without Grigson making the decisions this time around you add better pieces in the draft and make smart FA moves and I think we are a better defensive team this year.  I think we win more games with a better defense.  It's just my take on things, I'm sure you'll have your disagreements as always, but you usually bring up decent points. 

 

Pagano has only taken the team to the playoffs twice and missed them twice... BA took the team that first year, and should get credit for those wins instead of Chuck, as he was the one actually coaching the team.

 

As for the offense, yes it puts up points...but I don't like it at all, and feel it is just as responsible for Luck getting hurt as the O-Line is.  I think with a better offense, the line would look better and Luck would get hit far less.

 

I asked in an earlier post for anyone to comment on, but Krunk, in your opinion, which current HC are worse than Pagano and why? Not trying to argue, i'm just genuinely curious to your opinion.

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   I would not give Chuck a C or above grade on player development on the Defensive side.
   And no more than a C on overall coaching.
   I would give him a B to B+ for getting his players to consistently compete.
    Overall there is just Cause to replace him.  JMO of course.

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Just now, throwing BBZ said:

   I would not give Chuck a C or above grade on player development on the Defensive side.
   And no more than a C on overall coaching.
   I would give him a B to B+ for getting his players to consistently compete.
    Overall there is just Cause to replace him.  JMO of course.

I give him a D on competing and overall coaching skills. The team often comes out flat and takes until the 3rd or 4th quater to snap out of it.

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28 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

 

 

Pagano has only taken the team to the playoffs twice and missed them twice... BA took the team that first year, and should get credit for those wins instead of Chuck, as he was the one actually coaching the team.

 

As for the offense, yes it puts up points...but I don't like it at all, and feel it is just as responsible for Luck getting hurt as the O-Line is.  I think with a better offense, the line would look better and Luck would get hit far less.

 

I asked in an earlier post for anyone to comment on, but Krunk, in your opinion, which current HC are worse than Pagano and why? Not trying to argue, i'm just genuinely curious to your opinion.

Most of that year was BA, but Pagano did coach that year.   All those wins were not the responsibility of BA and a lot of the emotion and the way they played was inspired by Chuck so let's not act like he didn't contribute to that season because he did and that is a pure fact.   Secondly as I've mentioned before you can have problems protecting your QB in any offense.  Russell Wilson gets sacked all the time and he's not in an Air Coryell.  Tom Brady got pulverized in the AFC Championship last year and that's not an Air Coryell. Tom Brady just recently got sacked like 5 times against Houston in this years playoffs and there are other examples.    Teams have used Air Coryell to win Super Bowls so it's a proven offensive system.  Most recently we just had Joe Flacco and the Ravens win a Super Bowl with it.  

 

The teams I've seen do the best with it always have a competent running game so you don't have to sit back there and throw the ball 60 times a game exposing your QB to a higher sack percentage.  The Ravens always made it a point to feed Ray Rice more than they threw it, but no so much to where we are talking Rex Ryan ground and pound.   I think if we make sure we are a pretty competent running team the sacks will go down.  You have to invest in your OL and running game to keep the sacks down.  Balanced offensive attack solves a lot of the problem, but there are other parts of Chuds approach that need tweaking.  The approach to Air Coryell can vary from Coach To Coach.  And lets not forget some of Andrews decision making that contribute to the issue as well. 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, TheGreatManning18Fan said:

This is for sure a fake Brad Wells account, I apologize for the confusion and appreciate those that pointed out that it was fake. 

It's a real Brad Wells account with a fake post

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1 hour ago, ManningGM said:

This franchise is in shambles if that's the case. Pagano has proven year after year that he isn't the coach that can take you to the promise lands. 

I don't even know what your talking about you literally make zero sense 

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From what I have read about Toub, this is what I have found out: He is well respected around the league (Andy Reid especially, and probably some GMs if they want him so bad). His approach to HC interviews was one where he talked about the HC role being a game manager position who controls all the other assistant coaches and makes sure everything is running smoothly. And he also talked about his STs experience being helpful in that he deals with players of all backgrounds, of all positions, and he has to deal with constant shuffling of players on the back end of rosters during a normal season.

 

Now I am not saying he will be an All Star coach, I can see how his stock has risen with him having Reid's recommendation and love from some GMs. To be honest, I don't want a first timer as our next coach but the market ain't great out there for former head coaches who would still be a great hire. 

 

And FORGET about Harbaugh or Saban next year. If we hire a GM this year, they are getting full personnel control and Harbaugh wants that which we wouldn't give him even if he or Saban were to be hypothetically interested in the position one year from now. 

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1 hour ago, ManningGM said:

This franchise is in shambles if that's the case. Pagano has proven year after year that he isn't the coach that can take you to the promise lands. 

Since Pagano has been in the league 4 coaches, which could be 5, have won a Super Bowl. I think about 6 current head coaches have  won a Super Bowl in their career. Either a vast majority of coaches cannot take a team to the promised land, or it's a poor way to judge a coach.

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1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

Since Pagano has been in the league 4 coaches, which could be 5, have won a Super Bowl. I think about 6 current head coaches have  won a Super Bowl in their career. Either a vast majority of coaches cannot take a team to the promised land, or it's a poor way to judge a coach.

Poor game planning, repeated slow starts, and overall inconsistency is not the move.

 

Only thing Pagano is good at is finding ways of embarrassing this team on national TV. Dude should've been canned after the New England %show. 

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1 minute ago, ManningGM said:

Poor game planning, repeated slow starts, and overall inconsistency is not the move.

 

Only thing Pagano is good at is finding ways of embarrassing this team on national TV. Dude should've been canned after the New England %show. 

After we were in the Championship Game or the one we lost by one score?

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8 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

Nope. It is a fake one. Very subtle difference in the handle.

oh ok, thanks for the heads-up !!

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