GM Candidates, including Jimmy Raye (merge)

[krunk]

It's funny how people speak about Pagano as if he's some 2-20 loss coach who's been failing every year forever.

[masnerj]

Two things:

 

First, I am beyond excited that KC is letting Ballard interview for the Colts job. He is definitely a future GM and considered one of the top guys in the league for open positions. I feel that he would definitely be better than most of the other candidates (except for probably the Ravens guy and maybe Patton). I would love to have Ballard be our next GM. 

 

Secondly, for everyone that hates on Raye and thinks he is a bad choice because of his association with Grigson and our cruddy front office situation the last few years: He wasn't a YES man. There were a few articles that talked about him standing up to Grigson (Grigson said this himself) on multiple occasions where he felt strongly against whatever Grigson wanted to do. It is unfair to put the blame on him because A. He wasn't the GM and doesn't have full control and B. He doesn't really have responsibilities on the free-agency side of things or as big of a role in early draft picks. We know he was responsible for the UDFAs and look what has happened over the past few years: The Colts are considered one of the most attractive locations for UDFAs to sign because of the opportunity we give them and how good we are at finding the good ones (though I guess part of this is also cause of regular roster has like no depth). We DON'T know what Raye's draft choices or what Raye's free agency would look like but there is no way someone could assume it would be the same or as bad as Grigson. You better bet your money on the fact that Irsay will only hire Raye if he knows he isn't getting a repeat of Grigson on all fronts. 

 

To be honest, I think from the list that Irsay has put together, any of the candidates would do a decent to great job at GM. Grigson came out of nowhere when he was signed and Irsay definitely either A. ignored rumors about Grigson's problems and arrogance or B. knew about them but wanted to take a chance on him. Irsay will not make the same mistakes again where his reputation would go down the drain not to mention a complete waste of Luck's prime years. I am optimistic about the GM search and whatever decision Irsay ends up making. I would prefer an outside candidate (Patton or Ballard would be nice) but even if we do hire Raye it wouldn't be the end of the world. Either way, this draft and free agency is going to be atleast 70-80% defense and I am looking forward to it. 

[Jackie Daytona]

14 minutes ago, krunk said:

It's funny how people speak about Pagano as if he's some 2-20 loss coach who's been failing every year forever.

it's not as simple as looking at w/l.......   It's funny how people still dismiss all his faults over a five year period by simply stating "49-31"

[OffensivelyPC]

7 minutes ago, masnerj said:

[Snipped some content to save space]

 

Secondly, for everyone that hates on Raye and thinks he is a bad choice because of his association with Grigson and our cruddy front office situation the last few years: He wasn't a YES man. There were a few articles that talked about him standing up to Grigson (Grigson said this himself) on multiple occasions where he felt strongly against whatever Grigson wanted to do. It is unfair to put the blame on him because A. He wasn't the GM and doesn't have full control and B. He doesn't really have responsibilities on the free-agency side of things or as big of a role in early draft picks. We know he was responsible for the UDFAs and look what has happened over the past few years: The Colts are considered one of the most attractive locations for UDFAs to sign because of the opportunity we give them and how good we are at finding the good ones (though I guess part of this is also cause of regular roster has like no depth). We DON'T know what Raye's draft choices or what Raye's free agency would look like but there is no way someone could assume it would be the same or as bad as Grigson. You better bet your money on the fact that Irsay will only hire Raye if he knows he isn't getting a repeat of Grigson on all fronts. 

 

 

But like any second hand man, while the moves of the Colts FO are not chiefly attributable to him, they are in fact a reflection of his work to an extent.  The same way the guys from the Seahawks haven't been able to really build a line.  It's not all on them, and the blame doesn't pass through John Sneider, but it's at least something that you'd rather not see on their resumes.  

 

Then again, all of these candidates, and really, any candidate that's ever candidate-ed will have strengths and weaknesses.  So it's not like they are all bad options.  The question is, which one stands out the most - and a lot of information needed to make that assessment will never be known to the fans.  We can only go off what we see and what viable sources reveal about them.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Shafty138 said:

it's not as simple as looking at w/l.......   It's funny how people still dismiss all his faults over a five year period by simply stating "49-31"

You don't see barely any thread anywhere dismissing paganos faults.  Get real

[Jackie Daytona]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

You don't see barely any thread anywhere dismissing paganos faults.  Get real

not threads, posts.....

[lennymoore24]

I've said on some other posts that I think Irsay pretty much has to keep Pagano at this point.  Just consider what would happen with Luck out up to six months and the Colts get a new head coach, new offensive system.  How will Luck participate? He would come in to training camp being the first time he ever works with it other than mentally.   So I think he is doing what he has to.  And I guess in another vein, Chud and the offense were not the problem.  As someone pointed out, in games where the Colts held the other team under 20 points, the Luck is 24-0.  They can score points.  They can't stop the other team.

 

I am really hoping we can either bring in one of the Seattle guys or Wolf.   No disrespect to Raye, but he was part of what has been drafted for five years.  We need a fresh set of eyes.  The other advantage is if we bring in one of those guys, we get their scouting reports plus all of ours too.  So would really help with this draft.

[Yoshinator]

9 minutes ago, krunk said:

You don't see barely any thread anywhere dismissing paganos faults.  Get real

First off, Pagano isn't 49-31. He only coached 4 games in year 1 and went 2-2. Second, Pagano was the beneficiary of Andrew Luck and a weak division. Once the division got better and the division games got harder, we went 8-8 two consecutive years and missed the playoffs, which is the level we are on now, and the division won't get any easier now that Watt will return next year, the Jags have a new Coach with a high pick, and the Titans have 6 picks in the top 75. Pagano isn't special, he isn't good, he took advantage of a good situation in years 1-3, but lost to the Pats and Steelers who he's yet to beat.

 

Even if you want to argue he won without Luck in 2015, he still lost with him and had the same record in 2016, so which is it?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

First off, Pagano isn't 49-31. He only coached 4 games in year 1 and went 2-2. Second, Pagano was the beneficiary of Andrew Luck and a weak division. Once the division got better and the division games got harder, we went 8-8 two consecutive years and missed the playoffs, which is the level we are on now, and the division won't get any easier now that Watt will return next year, the Jags have a new Coach with a high pick, and the Titans have 6 picks in the top 75. Pagano isn't special, he isn't good, he took advantage of a good situation in years 1-3, but lost to the Pats and Steelers who he's yet to beat.

 

Even if you want to argue he won without Luck in 2015, he still lost with him and had the same record in 2016, so which is it?

He's an average coach. It's that simple. 

And I hate thinking about the picks the Titans have 

[krunk]

20 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

not threads, posts.....

threads or posts.  the bulk of the entire forum knows his faults well and they've been stated over and over again ad nauseum sometimes to the point where no one even knows what the guy does well.  that's how bad the anger is.  problem is a lot of it extreme.  it's as if we are being coached by Jerry Glanville or somebody which is silly.

 

[PeterBowman]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

threads or posts.  the bulk of the entire forum knows his faults well and they've been stated over and over again ad nauseum sometimes to the point where no one even knows what the guy does well.  that's how bad the anger is.  problem is a lot of it extreme.  it's as if we are being coached by Jerry Glanville or somebody which is silly.

 

yep, the Colts could do better than Pagano......but they could also do a lot worse.

[krunk]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

First off, Pagano isn't 49-31. He only coached 4 games in year 1 and went 2-2. Second, Pagano was the beneficiary of Andrew Luck and a weak division. Once the division got better and the division games got harder, we went 8-8 two consecutive years and missed the playoffs, which is the level we are on now, and the division won't get any easier now that Watt will return next year, the Jags have a new Coach with a high pick, and the Titans have 6 picks in the top 75. Pagano isn't special, he isn't good, he took advantage of a good situation in years 1-3, but lost to the Pats and Steelers who he's yet to beat.

 

Even if you want to argue he won without Luck in 2015, he still lost with him and had the same record in 2016, so which is it?

Dude you are getting worse by the moment.   It's sad.  There's coaches out there in the same time span like Sean Peyton, Mike Mcoy and some others with worse records and quarterbacks who are respected.    I'm sure you've got an excuse for each one.   My point is he's not Jerry Glanville or some type of sapp that people around here are trying to make the guy out to be. He's an average coach.  People don't even want to give the guy that.   It's extreme.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, #12. said:

Apparently, to some, Raye gets credit for every positive move made in San Diego yet none of the blame for anything that has happened here.  What seems to be driving this?  A Colts.com generated bio - a fluff piece. 

 

And to others, Raye gets blame for every negative move the Colts made, and no credit for any positives, anywhere.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Dude you are getting worse by the moment.   It's sad

Probably because I'm realizing next year is going to be a waste to watch when Pagano stays and I'm upset. That's like someone saying, I'm going to steal a year of your life away. What part of what I said isn't true?

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's like someone saying, I'm going to steal a year of your life away.

 

No it isn't.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Superman said:

 

And to others, Raye gets blame for every negative move the Colts made, and no credit for any positives, anywhere.

I honestly didn't see anyone blame Raye for the problems Grigson has done. Even I said, I have no opinion of him, because I know nothing about him. I just don't want because of his association with Pagano. He could be a good GM.

[Superman]

50 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Me too I'm sure we will go deep in the playoffs too and buy him the rest of his contract 

 

Oh God, not a deep playoff run!!!!

[Superman]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

I honestly didn't see anyone blame Raye for the problems Grigson has done. Even I said, I have no opinion of him, because I know nothing about him. I just don't want because of his association with Pagano. He could be a good GM.

 

Several people in this very thread are laying the faults of the Colts front office at Raye's feet. He's guilty by association.

[Superman]

40 minutes ago, masnerj said:

Grigson came out of nowhere when he was signed and Irsay definitely either A. ignored rumors about Grigson's problems and arrogance or B. knew about them but wanted to take a chance on him.

 

There were no rumors about Grigson's problems or arrogance when he was hired, and he actually started off pretty well. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Oh God, not a deep playoff run!!!!

When it's cause of a weak schedule then it's not really that great cause then the schedule gets worse and when we play elite teams we will once again be blown out and extremely outmatched 

[Bluefire4]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Probably because I'm realizing next year is going to be a waste to watch when Pagano stays and I'm upset. That's like someone saying, I'm going to steal a year of your life away. What part of what I said isn't true?

His point still stands that we are acting like 8-8 is 2-14. 8-8 is not enough for the playoffs but it  is better than many other teams. Before we drafted Andrew anyone would have been crazy saying we would make the AFC championship game in 3 years. 

 

We need to stop acting like Chuck is the worst coach ever. He's overachieved in my opinion. With a below average (or worse) roster every year he has won at least 8 games. With or without Luck, no matter how many injuries we have.

 

Every coach makes their mistakes and have growing pains, but we can't really judge the game planning until he has some talent that can execute.

 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No it isn't.

It does to me, I know this pattern. At best, we are noncompetitive and the new GM hits on some picks and sets us up for next year while we go 8-8 or go 1 and done in the playoffs. At worst, he misses in the draft, we regress, and Pagano gets fired next year, and it puts us another year behind the 8 ball in all facets and wastes another year of Luck's career.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Bluefire4 said:

His point still stands that we are acting like 8-8 is 2-14. 8-8 is not enough for the playoffs but it  is better than many other teams. Before we drafted Andrew anyone would have been crazy saying we would make the AFC championship game in 3 years. 

 

We need to stop acting like Chuck is the worst coach ever. He's overachieved in my opinion. With a below average (or worse) roster every year he has won at least 8 games. With or without Luck, no matter how many injuries we have.

 

Every coach makes their mistakes and have growing pains, but we can't really judge the game planning until he has some talent that can execute.

 

I would rather be 2-14 with Andrew Luck. At least that would get us Myles Garrett in the draft this year and we'd, in reality, be much better than that with a franchise QB. 8-8 is the worst you can be, just bad enough to miss the playoffs, and just good enough to be out of contention for elite draft picks. We aren't even like a Giants type 8-8 that can possibly beat elite teams. The Pats and Steelers beat us every time, and we don't have much chance against any playoff team.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Dudley Smith said:

If Raye is promoted to GM and Pagano is kept as HC, really what has changed at that point outside of a guy who no one liked on a personal level being gone?

 

Why is everyone completely discounting the possibility that Raye could be a better GM than Grigson? Didn't almost everyone spend the last couple years saying "anyone but Grigson"? 

 

He's definitely not at the top of my list, but goodness, the guy can't even interview? There's just no chance he could be good at the job?

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I would rather be 2-14 with Andrew Luck. At least that would get us Myles Garrett in the draft this year and we'd, in reality, be much better than that with a franchise QB. 8-8 is the worst you can be, just bad enough to miss the playoffs, and just good enough to be out of contention for elite draft picks. We aren't even like a Giants type 8-8 that can possibly beat elite teams. The Pats and Steelers beat us every time, and we don't have much chance against any playoff team.

That's why I hate 8-8 too the Pacers do the same % just miss the lottery picks and still miss the playoffs it blows 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

When it's cause of a weak schedule then it's not really that great cause then the schedule gets worse and when we play elite teams we will once again be blown out and extremely outmatched 

 

The schedule isn't weak. Your placement games are only two out of 13 matchups. And a deep playoff run necessarily means beating other teams in the playoffs, at which point your schedule isn't relevant. 

 

I'll go out on a limb and say that if the Colts have a great regular season but get steamrolled in the playoffs, Pagano is gone. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

That's why I hate 8-8 too the Pacers do the same % just miss the lottery picks and still miss the playoffs it blows 

 

You can't miss the lottery picks and the playoffs.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Why is everyone completely discounting the possibility that Raye could be a better GM than Grigson? Didn't almost everyone spend the last couple years saying "anyone but Grigson"? 

 

He's definitely not at the top of my list, but goodness, the guy can't even interview? There's just no chance he could be good at the job?

Two reason for this. One, he's associated with the Colts and the old regime. Most people here want someone new, with fresh ideas, and someone that can complete take us away from the Grigson/Pagano madness. Two, Raye's guys he drafted as a GM are offensive guys. He got Tomlinson, got Gates as a UDFA. We need a GM that can scout and draft talent at defense, which is what most of the other top candidates do.

[chrisfarley]

1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Another thing to keep in mind, and I saw somebody else mention this on Stampede Blue, but if they promote Raye III it'll probably be looked at as an extension of this regime by some.

That could be unfair but Raye's been here a few years. He's familiar with the coaches, the players, the organization as a whole. I think a lot of people are going to have higher expectations for Raye in his 1st year than if we were to bring in somebody from the outside who isn't familiar with the Colts.

i would hope raye is given the same carte blanche checkbook Grigson was.  Grigson seem to have free reign to make the "blockbuster" acquisitions.

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The schedule isn't weak. Your placement games are only two out of 13 matchups. And a deep playoff run necessarily means beating other teams in the playoffs, at which point your schedule isn't relevant. 

 

I'll go out on a limb and say that if the Colts have a great regular season but get steamrolled in the playoffs, Pagano is gone. 

Hope you are right 

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You can't miss the lottery picks and the playoffs.

You can miss the good ones the nba draft doesnt have the same amount of talent as the NFL the first 10 picks are really all that ever matter in that draft the rest is pure luck 

[Superman]

Colts have confirmed interviews with Ballard, Paton, Fitterer, Kirchner, Wolf, and Raye. That's everyone but DeCosta, right? And it seems like that's gonna be it.

 

Quote

Earlier reports mentioned a couple of other names involved in the Colts’ search for a new GM. However, the six names above are the ones the Colts will be interviewing.

 

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Yup. I don't think many expected Decosta to interview anyway.

Those are some good candidates.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

Colts have confirmed interviews with Ballard, Paton, Fitterer, Kirchner, Wolf, and Raye. That's everyone but DeCosta, right? And it seems like that's gonna be it.

 

 

 

Nice. DeCosta would of been nice, but I'm glad we got Ballard and Wolf added to the list. Good list there.

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Two reason for this. One, he's associated with the Colts and the old regime. Most people here want someone new, with fresh ideas, and someone that can complete take us away from the Grigson/Pagano madness. Two, Raye's guys he drafted as a GM are offensive guys. He got Tomlinson, got Gates as a UDFA. We need a GM that can scout and draft talent at defense, which is what most of the other top candidates do.

 

Raye has never been a GM. 

 

Big picture, there's no reason to completely dismiss the possibility that Jimmy Raye is better than Ryan Grigson, or that he can lead a change in direction (which is what Irsay said he wanted). 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Nice. DeCosta would of been nice, but I'm glad we got Ballard and Wolf added to the list. Good list there.

 

I spent the last half a day getting excited about the possibility of DeCosta, when I've spent the last two years telling everyone that DeCosta doesn't want to leave Baltimore.

 

"He can change, I know he can!"

 

I feel like such a fool.

[BProland85]

Why not be patient and see if Nick Caserio from New England will interview as well? Irsay has taken his time to cut bait with Grigson so why not take a little time to make the best GM hire possible?

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I spent the last half a day getting excited about the possibility of DeCosta, when I've spent the last two years telling everyone that DeCosta doesn't want to leave Baltimore.

 

"He can change, I know he can!"

 

I feel like such a fool.

Yeah, it would of been great to get an interview, but it was a longshot. I still like a couple people that are on the list though. Ballard in particular.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, BProland85 said:

Why not be patient and see if Nick Caserio from New England will interview as well? Irsay has taken his time to cut bait with Grigson so why not take a little time to make the best GM hire possible?

 

Because the clock is ticking.....     odds are Caserio can't do anything until after the Super Bowl.

 

I don't think you want to postpone all of these interviews for two weeks.      Everyone needs to be able to move on with their lives,  one way or the other.

 

One person will get the job,  the others will stay.    They all need to know ASAP.

 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Why not be patient and see if Nick Caserio from New England will interview as well? Irsay has taken his time to cut bait with Grigson so why not take a little time to make the best GM hire possible?

I'm guessing he feels NE won't give us permission to interview him, considering our history.