How hard is this?

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

With regards to Gruden, Adam Schefter said it, candidly, on ESPN, where he serves as both Gruden's co-worker and in-house NFL Twitter bot. If he's fabricating this, even in the slightest, he's putting his entire career as an NFL insider in jeopardy, and I just don't see him doing that. It's one thing to be wrong, it's a total other thing to be making stuff up.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18472970/jim-irsay-indianapolis-colts-owner-pursued-monday-night-football-analyst-jon-gruden-head-coaching-job

 

He could be wrong without having to fabricate anything. He's been dead wrong before. He's also been refuted by involved parties, and refused to back down, and the stalemate never ends, it just doesn't matter. Unless Schefter could PROVE that Irsay interviewed and/or offered Gruden -- not spent time with, not had conversations with, but actually made him an offer -- then it doesn't matter.

 

I think the point is that Irsay could end this whole story. Doesn't mean that he'd have to be telling the absolute truth. 

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

With regards to Gruden, Adam Schefter said it, candidly, on ESPN, where he serves as both Gruden's co-worker and in-house NFL Twitter bot. If he's fabricating this, even in the slightest, he's putting his entire career as an NFL insider in jeopardy, and I just don't see him doing that. It's one thing to be wrong, it's a total other thing to be making stuff up.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18472970/jim-irsay-indianapolis-colts-owner-pursued-monday-night-football-analyst-jon-gruden-head-coaching-job

They both work for ESPN, they are hardly co workers.  Gruden said publicly he is a broadcaster, not a coach.  Yet schefter reported he met with irsay.  It would appear he either released info gruden didn't want released, or he was wrong.  Either way I doubt gruden is happy.  Espn doesn't care as long as it gets clicks

[Jason_]

10 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

Lions did it.

 

No sir, the butler did it. See, he has a gun!

 

[OffensivelyPC]

13 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

No sir, the butler did it. See, he has a gun!

 

One of my all-time favorite comedies

[Coltsman1788]

"I've been waitin...but I'll tell ya...one of these days ole Irsay gone speak on ALL this. I still BELIEVE!"

 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

41 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I love his views on what is really important in life, just not in the context of coaching.  Sure, health, family, etc is more important than football.  But NOT for 60 minutes every Sunday. Chuck is a little too laid back for me.

i know other people who battled death and won.  Their attitudes toward work greatly changed.  While i'm not judging or arguing that, i don't know that that is the attitude you want in an NFL head coach.

chuck has made some comments, like that he ones you mentioned, that struck me wrong. I want a coach that treats EVERY season as his last.

I dont question his drive because i dont think you get as far as he has without it. That said, desire and drive dont make you great. While those things are required for greatness, there are other facets that play a role - ability, decisionmaking, etc.

[dgambill]

52 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Wild-eyed theory time:

 

I was recently looking at some of the comments Grigson has made about Pagano's interview. A couple things are eyebrow-raising. First, Grigson basically had to beg Pagano to interview, and Pagano had a bunch of lame excuses for why he couldn't -- my suits in the cleaners, etc. Grigson liked Pagano prior to getting the Indy job, he tried to get Pagano to the Eagles as DC when he was still the Ravens DB coach. So Grigson was a driving force in getting Pagano to seriously consider the job.

 

Second, last year, when the Indy reporters wouldn't stop asking Pagano whether he thought he was going to be fired -- around the time he gave the 'they can't eat you' line, he basically said he didn't plan to take any other job in the NFL. Said if he didn't get a new contract, he'd basically pack up and go back to Idaho, be with his family, and be happy. There are worse ways to go out. And while he was being PC and media-friendly, he seemed sincere enough, and it was a balanced outlook.

 

Pagano's overall attitude kind of has an 'I can take it or leave it' kind of feel to it. I'm not saying he hasn't worked his butt off, and I'm not saying he isn't committed to his job. In no way am I trying to question his commitment. But maybe Pagano was planning to retire before he got the Indy job, not right away, but within a few years. He has young grandkids, his daughters are across the country, he's been in the business as a coach for 30+ years, etc. Maybe his whole 'I don't know if I should interview' was because he was planning to walk away at some point in the near future...? 

 

This has no basis in fact, aside from connecting some very far away dots. But it wouldn't surprise me if Pagano got fired and never worked full time in the NFL again. He's almost 60, just survived cancer, and would walk away with a nice chunk of change. 

Ahhh out of all the possible theories you've had pretty good ones but I don't think that dog will hunt on this one. First off that kind of mentality would show up really really fast and honestly head coach where you spend the kind of hours and effort can't see a man just kinda mailing it in with that type of job. Second he had an out with the cancer...the team playing well...could have just handed it over to Bruce and we could have kept rolling. Third I don't think we re-up a guy that isn't 100% committed.

 

Now I do think that mentality does show up in how he approaches his players. No doubt this man's priorities are to God, Family, and then his team (and that's fine) but I also think it comes out when we don't see him get overly excited or when holding players accountable perhaps but I don't think he doesn't thoroughly enjoy his job. I think he LOVES it and he wants to keep it. True he may not go back to just coaching defense or something like that but I don't think he would be fine just walking away. I think the cancer put a lot of things in perspective for him but I don't question if his heart is in it. Not saying those sources aren't true and that he had to be begged to take the job but I think this guy loves his job.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Ahhh out of all the possible theories you've had pretty good ones but I don't think that dog will hunt on this one. First off that kind of mentality would show up really really fast and honestly head coach where you spend the kind of hours and effort can't see a man just kinda mailing it in with that type of job. Second he had an out with the cancer...the team playing well...could have just handed it over to Bruce and we could have kept rolling. Third I don't think we re-up a guy that isn't 100% committed.

 

Now I do think that mentality does show up in how he approaches his players. No doubt this man's priorities are to God, Family, and then his team (and that's fine) but I also think it comes out when we don't see him get overly excited or when holding players accountable perhaps but I don't think he doesn't thoroughly enjoy his job. I think he LOVES it and he wants to keep it. True he may not go back to just coaching defense or something like that but I don't think he would be fine just walking away. I think the cancer put a lot of things in perspective for him but I don't question if his heart is in it. Not saying those sources aren't true and that he had to be begged to take the job but I think this guy loves his job.

 

I said it was wild-eyed... 

 

Just want to clarify, though. I'm not saying he's mailing it in, and I'm not saying he doesn't love his job and isn't committed to it. I was responding to the thought that Pagano would/wouldn't be a head coach again if he got fired by the Colts. And all I'm saying is that I'm somewhat inclined to believe him when he says he'd go back to Idaho or Colorado or wherever his kids/grandkids are and enjoy a happy retirement. 

[buccolts]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Wild-eyed theory time:

 

I was recently looking at some of the comments Grigson has made about Pagano's interview. A couple things are eyebrow-raising. First, Grigson basically had to beg Pagano to interview, and Pagano had a bunch of lame excuses for why he couldn't -- my suits in the cleaners, etc. Grigson liked Pagano prior to getting the Indy job, he tried to get Pagano to the Eagles as DC when he was still the Ravens DB coach. So Grigson was a driving force in getting Pagano to seriously consider the job.

 

Second, last year, when the Indy reporters wouldn't stop asking Pagano whether he thought he was going to be fired -- around the time he gave the 'they can't eat you' line, he basically said he didn't plan to take any other job in the NFL. Said if he didn't get a new contract, he'd basically pack up and go back to Idaho, be with his family, and be happy. There are worse ways to go out. And while he was being PC and media-friendly, he seemed sincere enough, and it was a balanced outlook.

 

Pagano's overall attitude kind of has an 'I can take it or leave it' kind of feel to it. I'm not saying he hasn't worked his butt off, and I'm not saying he isn't committed to his job. In no way am I trying to question his commitment. But maybe Pagano was planning to retire before he got the Indy job, not right away, but within a few years. He has young grandkids, his daughters are across the country, he's been in the business as a coach for 30+ years, etc. Maybe his whole 'I don't know if I should interview' was because he was planning to walk away at some point in the near future...? 

 

This has no basis in fact, aside from connecting some very far away dots. But it wouldn't surprise me if Pagano got fired and never worked full time in the NFL again. He's almost 60, just survived cancer, and would walk away with a nice chunk of change. 

To your last two paragraphs, I've felt this way for a year now.

 

I just have the feeling Pagano doesn't want to coach much longer, maybe just until Jim finds a replacement (on Jim's terms), and he walks off. 

 

My gut tells me Chuck knows he isn't good enough, maybe bit off more then he now realizes he could chew, and that's it.

 

Just a feeling I've have for quite a while now.

 

Also, kinda odd no one's approached Chuck or Ryan during this whole coach search thing. Or did I miss something?

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I said it was wild-eyed... 

 

Just want to clarify, though. I'm not saying he's mailing it in, and I'm not saying he doesn't love his job and isn't committed to it. I was responding to the thought that Pagano would/wouldn't be a head coach again if he got fired by the Colts. And all I'm saying is that I'm somewhat inclined to believe him when he says he'd go back to Idaho or Colorado or wherever his kids/grandkids are and enjoy a happy retirement. 

Gotcha. I thought you were kinda implying that he wasn't like 100% committed to the job...like we had to beg him..he really didn't want it and if he lost it he would be done with football. Guess I assumed that meant he wasn't like all out to do the job. I screwed that up. My bad because I think he really loves the job and works hard at it...but it could be a reason why he doesn't get overly worked up about anything really and we don't see him take a heavy handed approach to the players or even his staff. I mean he never seems to even get upset at them either.

[DougDew]

48 minutes ago, buccolts said:

To your last two paragraphs, I've felt this way for a year now.

 

I just have the feeling Pagano doesn't want to coach much longer, maybe just until Jim finds a replacement (on Jim's terms), and he walks off. 

 

My gut tells me Chuck knows he isn't good enough, maybe bit off more then he now realizes he could chew, and that's it.

 

Just a feeling I've have for quite a while now.

 

Also, kinda odd no one's approached Chuck or Ryan during this whole coach search thing. Or did I miss something?

Bingo.  As does Grigson and Irsay.  And I think Grigson figured this out before Irsay did.

 

But in most years, the replacement candidates are really nothing more than a wild hair guess to be any better.

[ztboiler]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

With regards to Gruden, Adam Schefter said it, candidly, on ESPN, where he serves as both Gruden's co-worker and in-house NFL Twitter bot. If he's fabricating this, even in the slightest, he's putting his entire career as an NFL insider in jeopardy, and I just don't see him doing that. It's one thing to be wrong, it's a total other thing to be making stuff up.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18472970/jim-irsay-indianapolis-colts-owner-pursued-monday-night-football-analyst-jon-gruden-head-coaching-job

I think you are overstating Schefter's accountability and career risk.  Just as nothing has been said to confirm or refute the rumors, nobody will be circling back on the insiders once the rest of the story unfolds. 

 

 

It's a short news cycle...and these guys are afforded a lot of leeway to be wrong in the insider's version of journalism.  Everybody will just move forward....

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Dustin said:

"Despite recent unsubstantiated rumors from the press, there will be no changes (nor have any changes been attempted) to the team's coaching staff or front office personnel. I remain steadfast in my belief that Head Coach Chuck Pagano and General Manager Ryan Grigson will meet our goal of bringing a Lombardi Trophy back to the city of Indianapolis."

 

-Jim Irsay

 

There bud, I even wrote it for you. 

 

 

Well......    it's hard if (A) he's still trying to change one or the other or both......    and it's hard if (B) Irsay doesn't want to get caught in a lie.

 

There bud.....    I even explained it for you.

 

[DougDew]

42 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

I think you are overstating Schefter's accountability and career risk.  Just as nothing has been said to confirm or refute the rumors, nobody will be circling back on the insiders once the rest of the story unfolds. 

 

 

It's a short news cycle...and these guys are afforded a lot of leeway to be wrong in the insider's version of journalism.  Everybody will just move forward....

The article said that "Irsay pursued Gruden for head coach"  and then said "Gruden has denied any discussions with Irsay"  "I know nothing (about it)".

 

It seems to me that Schefter isn't really saying anything, unless Irsay spoke indirectly to Gruden through his agent, so both statements could be correct.  

 

This reads to me like something a journalist/blogger writes to keep a story going for a few more days.  Really, it sounds more like gossip, where the reader has enough information to believe something to be true, or not true, depending upon what they want to believe.

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The article said that "Irsay pursued Gruden for head coach"  and then said "Gruden has denied any discussions with Irsay"  "I know nothing (about it)".

 

It seems to me that Schefter isn't really saying anything, unless Irsay spoke indirectly to Gruden through his agent, so both statements could be correct.  

 

This reads to me like something a journalist/blogger writes to keep a story going for a few more days.  Really, it sounds more like gossip, where the reader has enough information to believe something to be true, or not true, depending upon what they want to believe.

 

Shefter speaks to Gruden.       Gruden confirms it to him,  but OFF the record and it can still be used.    Gruden then goes out and denies it softly with his comment about "I'm not a coach, I'm a broadcaster..."    A bit of a non-denial denial.

 

Gruden is not going to let Shefter get the story wrong,   but he's not going to confirm it in public because then he's admitted interviewing for a job that isn't open,  and it's not a good look.     This happens in the coaching job market.     It's not uncommon.

 

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

One of my all-time favorite comedies

 

ME TOO!!!

 

 

I so wish theys have done an ending for each character

[DougDew]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Shefter speaks to Gruden.       Gruden confirms it to him,  but OFF the record.     Gruden then goes out and denies it softly with his comment about "I'm not a coach, I'm a broadcaster,  I didn't speak to anyone....."   

 

Gruden is not going to let Shefter get the story wrong,   but he's not going to confirm it in public because then he's admitted interviewing for a job that isn't open,  and it's not a good look.     This happens in the coaching job market.     It's not uncommon.

 

Remember, didn't this Gruden rumor happen because Irsay's plane was in Houston for 10 hours or something....implying they were in active contract negotiations.  Its pretty hard to flat out deny talking to somebody at all when the rumor is that you were talking with somebody for a long time. Somebody else would find out besides Shefter.

 

I think the closet thing that happened is that Irsay approached somebody close to Gruden to gauge interest, and that person shut him off without even speaking to Gruden.  Teams used to take that approach with Parcells and Jimmy Johnson, which is so normal its hardly newsworthy.  

 

And I still say that any thoughts about coaching changes don't necessarily apply to this upcoming season.  Irsay could be laying the groundwork for next spring.

 

Gruden isn't going anywhere and neither is Manning.  They both will be there if the Colts underperform three years in a row.

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Remember, didn't this Gruden rumor happen because Irsay's plane was in Houston for 10 hours or something....implying they were in active contract negotiations.  Its pretty hard to flat out deny talking to somebody at all when the rumor is that you were talking with somebody for a long time. Somebody else would find out besides Shefter.

 

I think the closet thing that happened is that Irsay approached somebody close to Gruden to gauge interest, and that person shut him off without even speaking to Gruden.  Teams used to take that approach with Parcells and Jimmy Johnson, which is so normal its hardly newsworthy.  

 

And I still say that any thoughts about coaching changes don't necessarily apply to this upcoming season.  Irsay could be laying the groundwork for next spring.

 

Gruden isn't going anywhere and neither is Manning.  They both will be there if the Colts underperform three years in a row.

 

 

Yeah.....    all of that is.....    possible.

 

It's just not likely.      Gruden didn't pubclily say Shefter was wrong.     He just gave a very weak denial.

 

Gruden is smart.     He's played this game before.      You can deny talking to someone when your agent may have been talking to the owner for days and weeks.      But that's basically the same thing.     And if you did talk to the owner,   then you give a weak denial and simply say "I'm not a coach,  I'm a broadcaster..."

 

But since Gruden works for ESPN,   he's not going to let the company that employs him get the story wrong.    That would be bad.      So, ESPN reports it.....   and Gruden still looks somewhat pure....

 

It's a little awkward....   but both sides can claim they're right and clean....

 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah.....    all of that is.....    possible.

 

It's just not likely.      Gruden didn't pubclily say Shefter was wrong.     He just gave a very weak denial.

 

Gruden is smart.     He's played this game before.      You can deny talking to someone when your agent may have been talking to the owner for days and weeks.      But that's basically the same thing.     And if you did talk to the owner,   then you give a weak denial and simply say "I'm not a coach,  I'm a broadcaster..."

 

But since Gruden works for ESPN,   he's not going to let the company that employs him get the story wrong.    That would be bad.      So, ESPN reports it.....   and Gruden still looks somewhat pure....

 

It's a little awkward....   but both sides can claim they're right and clean....

 

I think Gruden's denial was pretty clear.  What isn't clear is how strongly Irsay was interested.  Shefter said that Irsay "pursued".  That could mean active contract negotiations, or it could mean he day-dreamed about Gruden after eating a heavy steak dinner.  

 

IMO, the article gives the reader enough information to believe what they want without committing to saying that anything actually happened.

 

It still falls into the gossip category rather than news category.  Bottom line, nothing happened, no actual news was created.  We're just left to ponder and discuss what Irsay is thinking......and checking ESPN frequently for the latest noninformation information to help us figure it out.

 

[Dustin]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Well......    it's hard if (A) he's still trying to change one or the other or both......    and it's hard if (B) Irsay doesn't want to get caught in a lie.

 

There bud.....    I even explained it for you.

 

 

How many draft picks do you get for lying to the media about trying to hire a coach?

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think Gruden's denial was pretty clear.  What isn't clear is how strongly Irsay was interested.  Shefter said that Irsay "pursued".  That could mean active contract negotiations, or it could mean he day-dreamed about Gruden after eating a heavy steak dinner.  

 

IMO, the article gives the reader enough information to believe what they want without committing to saying that anything actually happened.

 

It still falls into the gossip category rather than news category.  Bottom line, nothing happened, no actual news was created.  We're just left to ponder and discuss what Irsay is thinking......and checking ESPN frequently for the latest noninformation information to help us figure it out.

 

 

Well.....   that's your interpretation.....

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Dustin said:

 

How many draft picks do you get for lying to the media about trying to hire a coach?

 

I could easily be wrong,  but my guess is that Irsay is still trying to make something happen.

 

And I think that's what you want.

 

And yet here you are pounding on him......    he's trying.      He's not succeeding but he is trying.

 

[Dustin]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

I could easily be wrong,  but my guess is that Irsay is still trying to make something happen.

 

And I think that's what you want.

 

And yet here you are pounding on him......    he's trying.      He's not succeeding but he is trying.

 

 

I don't think know he's trying. I think he tried, failed, and is now hiding from the media and making his team look like a clown-show. 

[ztboiler]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well.....   that's your interpretation.....

 

For my money, actual  news is either on the record or recordable events.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

ME TOO!!!

 

 

I so wish theys have done an ending for each character

I know right, Mr. Green was the good guy in all of them!  Like, couldn't have one where he was in cahoots with Mr. Body or something?

 

The subtlety in the humor throughout  was fantastic.  Every line spoken by Mrs. White was golden lol.

[RockThatBlue]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

The fact that he still hasn't done this makes me think he's still working on something.

You very well could be right Superman. I'm not sure what to think of the silence. I realize he doesn't technically have to say anything, but at this point if he wants to keep them why not say you are and kill the speculation?

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

You very well could be right Superman. I'm not sure what to think of the silence. I realize he doesn't technically have to say anything, but at this point if he wants to keep them why not say you are and kill the speculation?

I really don't think he will get rid of either but his silence is driving every Colts fan crazy. It's strange IMO. I could be wrong and he could get rid of Chuck anyway but as of now I doubt it. I just think the 4 year extensions are the main thing keeping him from it. I also believe Irsay thinks we are just a few players away from being Good again. JMO's

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

 

I don't think know he's trying. I think he tried, failed, and is now hiding from the media and making his team look like a clown-show. 

 

 

That's entirely possible.     You could easily be right here.....

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ztboiler said:

For my money, actual  news is either on the record or recordable events.

 

OK.....    I can respect that....    but there won't be as much news for you.

 

Because much of today's news is made up,  in part,  from off-the-record sources.....    

 

That's the world we live in...

 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, RockThatBlue said:

You very well could be right Superman. I'm not sure what to think of the silence. I realize he doesn't technically have to say anything, but at this point if he wants to keep them why not say you are and kill the speculation?

 

I'm probably being stubborn. There's probably nothing going on, and Irsay is refusing to say anything because he doesn't care about all the noise. 

 

I'm actually fine with that. I don't think Irsay needs to announce his intentions, either way. I know the noise and speculation is driving everyone crazy, but oh well. If his staff is in place and under contract, he shouldn't have to address their employment status just because everyone wants him to. If he does make a change, we'll know for sure.

[Corndog]

7 hours ago, aaron11 said:

how many other teams announced that they are not going to fire their coaches?

The Detroit Lions said Caldwell would stay and the Jets organization said Todd Bowles would remain head coach in the 2017 season.  

[gacoop1]

There was something missing in Irsay's statement, the part where he said, he was steadfast confident that Grigs/Pagano Team is going to bring back the Lombardi Trophy to Indianapolis.  When is that Irsay, in the year 2020 or after Luck retires?

[ztboiler]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK.....    I can respect that....    but there won't be as much news for you.

 

Because much of today's news is made up,  in part,  from off-the-record sources.....    

 

That's the world we live in...

 

Absolutely...stories have long been broken off the record...but if it's really news it will eventually be corroborated by events and on the record comments.

 

Otherwise, it was just an unsubstantiated story.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well.....   that's your interpretation.....

 

Based upon what Shefter wrote.....what....happened?   We don't know what happened, if anything, because his descriptions of Irsay's actions and Gruden's statement conflict with each other..  

 

It sounds like you're saying that we should infer that Irsay tried to hire Gruden, but that Gruden doesn't want to admit it and Shefter doesn't want to press the issue because they both work for ESPN and neither wants to rock the boat.

 

IOW, in order to get the truth, we need to read between the lines....correctly.

 

Which is what I said.  It is written in a way that allows the reader to interpret it which ever way suits their beliefs.  The account of the events conflict, so we are left to interpret what the real truth is.  That's not really insider news.  Its gossip.  Its the fostering of controversy and debate.  ..

 

If he can't report real insider news, why write anything at all? 

 

[aaron11]

8 hours ago, Corndog said:

The Detroit Lions said Caldwell would stay and the Jets organization said Todd Bowles would remain head coach in the 2017 season.  

thats two out of 32 teams, and maybe jim is still looking

 

further more, maybe this article is true and the others are all wrong

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2666181-chuck-pagano-reportedly-to-return-as-colts-head-coach-latest-details-reaction

 

 

[Corndog]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

thats two out of 32 teams, and maybe jim is still looking

 

further more, maybe this article is true and the others are all wrong

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2666181-chuck-pagano-reportedly-to-return-as-colts-head-coach-latest-details-reaction

 

 

The thing is, Irsay did talk to Gruden. So I guess a go big or go home mentality.  He looked at what was out there and if he could catch a big fish, he would do it, but he wasn't going to fire them just for the sake of change.   At this point, it looks like we are going forward with Pagano and Grigson.  

[jet1968]

Irsay is always looking for a way to better his product. I'm sure he still has his feelers out and always does thru out the year. Saying that with is silence I am guessing he has someone in mind. Probably or may be someone on one of the teams that is still playing.