Jon Gruden turns down Colts job despite interest from Irsay

[Architects08]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Gruden's using Schefter to get this message out, it's a total leverage move to get Irsay to up the offer. I don't believe that this deal is as dead as they're making it sound.

I wish I shared your optimism.

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, UKCOLT17 said:

 

Do u think irsay will say something ? He should tho because it will only get worse

 

The only thing Irsay needs to say is the we've moved on from Pagano and Grigs.  

[chad72]

The problem was he issued the 4 year contracts and he is clearly regretting it because he needs to land someone before severing ties, in his mind. 

 

Really awkward for both Grigson and Pagano!!! Like I said before, winning cures everything and I hope the Colts blow the snot out of the AFC South and get a first round bye and make the AFCCG to quell more talk after next season. 

[snkdy]

If Irsay truly wants a coaching change, why not fire Pagano to begin with? Does keeping Pagano on the job and then holding discussions with Gruden imply that it was either Gruden or bust? That doesn't make any sense to me. Why limit yourself, especially to a former coach that hasn't done the job in years?

[Fisticuffs111]

Just now, snkdy said:

If Irsay truly wants a coaching change, why not fire Pagano to begin with? Does keeping Pagano on the job and then holding discussions with Gruden imply that it was either Gruden or bust? That doesn't make any sense to me. Why limit yourself, especially to a former coach that hasn't done the job in years?

I guess Irsay thought he could keep the rumors quiet.

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

This could get sloppy is Irsay isn't careful. 

 

And while I agree that the Brass needs to be swapped out, this isn't the way to do it.

 

It's been sloppy since Pagano did that presser.  I'm beginning to wonder if Irsay is incapable of handling this situation properly.  If he's not happy with them then cut bait and move on at the beginning.  I don't care how secretive you try to be about finding a replacement, someone is going to find out.  I'm sure someone with direct knowledge had already contacted Pagano about this before Schefter reported this.  

[snkdy]

1 minute ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I guess Irsay thought he could keep the rumors quiet.

 

I see your point, but that seems unreasonable to me given that we're in the social media age. The rumors always leak.

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, snkdy said:

If Irsay truly wants a coaching change, why not fire Pagano to begin with? Does keeping Pagano on the job and then holding discussions with Gruden imply that it was either Gruden or bust? That doesn't make any sense to me. Why limit yourself, especially to a former coach that hasn't done the job in years?

Maybe Jim didn't know for sure if his main target would say yes. But if ur trying for a new coach, you should probably have the position open in the first place

[jvan1973]

47 minutes ago, Corndog said:

I have already said it five times in this thread, but I suppose I can say it one more time.  I can't see Schefter jeopardizing his job for this and if he wasn't a reliable source national media outlets wouldn't be confirming the story just based on Schefter.  As I said before, he would be in big trouble at ESPN with the HR department, considering him and Gruden are employees there.  

He is an nfl reporter.   He speculates all the time.   His sources aren't always accurate.   He wouldn't be in "big trouble".  As long as people are watching and clicking on the article,  espn is fine with what he does

[Colts_Fan12]

Damn it!! Gruden wasn't my first choice but he was top 5. Hopefully Jim looks into Kyle Shanahan or Josh McDaniels now both still available.

[Fisticuffs111]

2 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

I see your point, but that seems unreasonable to me given that we're in the social media age. The rumors always leak.

Oh believe me, I think it'd be ridiculous if Irsay thought he could keep the rumors quiet. Who knows.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

15 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Gruden's using Schefter to get this message out, it's a total leverage move to get Irsay to up the offer. I don't believe that this deal is as dead as they're making it sound.

Soo far-fetched.

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, chrisfarley said:

now that you mention it, there was a release of all the coaches and their salaries (thanks), he's in the middle as I recall.  That makes this separation much more unlikely, I would think (unless he thinks he can do better and get a big name still)

 

Rick Venturi said that the assistant coaches aren't guaranteed.  

[snkdy]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

Maybe Jim didn't know for sure if his main target would say yes. But if ur trying for a new coach, you should probably have the position open in the first place

 

To me, whether the outside offer is accepted is irrelevant. If you're looking for greener pastures, you no longer have faith in the staff you have which means Pagano should have been let go.

[Luck is Good]

Just now, snkdy said:

 

To me, whether the outside offer is accepted is irrelevant. If you're looking for greener pastures, you no longer have faith in the staff you have which means Pagano should have been let go.

I completely agree that Pagano should have already been fired. Should have been fired on Black Monday. But I'm just looking at it from Jim's perspective. If he had fired Pagano that day and then Irsay's main target turns down the offer, he is left scrambling to find a coach

[snkdy]

3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I completely agree that Pagano should have already been fired. Should have been fired on Black Monday. But I'm just looking at it from Jim's perspective. If he had fired Pagano that day and then Irsay's main target turns down the offer, he is left scrambling to find a coach

 

Yeah, but he wouldn't have had to scramble if he had fired him before doing anything else. There likely would have been multiple options to choose from. Even now, Shanahan and McDaniels are still available. Unless of course, Irsay is happy with the status-quo now that Gruden has declined the offer.

[deedub75]

52 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

Pagano seems to have 9 lives like cats lol.

 

LOL!  He's the new Jeff Fisher.  

[ztboiler]

34 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Gruden's using Schefter to get this message out, it's a total leverage move to get Irsay to up the offer. I don't believe that this deal is as dead as they're making it sound.

Astute observation.  

 

Anyone that doesn't think this is a possibility hasn't been paying attention to the conflicting stories that historically surround high profile coaching changes....or haven't been in the room for high level business deals that look like they won't work...and then do.

 

It might not work out, but it doesn't mean it's not going on.

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

Yeah, but he wouldn't have had to scramble if he had fired him before doing anything else. There likely would have been multiple options to choose from. Even now, Shanahan and McDaniels are still available. Unless of course, Irsay is happy with the status-quo now that Gruden has declined the offer.

I can't imagine Irsay is happy with the status quo even though Gruden turned down the offer. I think we are gonna hear about some more candidates

[Fisticuffs111]

13 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

Yeah, but he wouldn't have had to scramble if he had fired him before doing anything else. There likely would have been multiple options to choose from. Even now, Shanahan and McDaniels are still available. Unless of course, Irsay is happy with the status-quo now that Gruden has declined the offer.

Yup. I know people are pushing the "Irsay wants to get a guaranteed better guy" but that just doesn't really exist.

That doesn't mean there weren't and aren't solid looking candidates this year, more solid than Chuck seemed to me as a HC candidate.

[snkdy]

2 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I can't imagine Irsay is happy with the status quo even though Gruden turned down the offer. I think we are gonna hear about some more candidates

 

I'm going to be watching this Falcons/Seahawks game with considerably more interest now

[snkdy]

Just now, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yup. I know people are hyped up on getting the guaranteed better guy, but come on, that just doesn't exist.

There were plenty of guys who were much better looking HC candidates than Chuck was at the time he was hired. Still are. Shanahan and McDaniels have pretty impressive resume's compared to Chuck, and they're much younger.

 

Exactly. It doesn't make any sense.

[MasterCrief]

5 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

I'm going to be watching this Falcons/Seahawks game with considerably more interest now

Yeah, I'm really conflicted on that game. On one hand, I'm firmly on the Falcons bandwagon right now, but on the other hand, Shanahan is the guy I really want as our next head coach, and I'd like to hear about that asap.

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yup. I know people are hyped up on getting the guaranteed better guy, but come on, that just doesn't exist.

There were plenty of guys who were much better looking HC candidates than Chuck was at the time he was hired. Still are. Shanahan and McDaniels have pretty impressive resume's compared to Chuck, and they're much younger.

Give me an old fart lol

 

best coach in NFL is 65

 

best coach in NBA is 67

 

best coach in college football is 65 

 

best coach in MLB is 62

 

[Luck is Good]

4 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

I'm going to be watching this Falcons/Seahawks game with considerably more interest now

Yeah I definitely will be. As well as the Texans/Patriots game. I wouldn't mind either Shanahan or McDaniels

[Fisticuffs111]

Just now, BOTT said:

Give me an old fart lol

 

best coach in NFL is 65

 

best coach in NBA is 67

 

best coach in college football is 65 

 

best coach in MLB is 62

 

That's fine with me too.

I always hoped Frank Vogel could've eventually been Indianapolis' old fart coach, 15-20 years down the road.

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, MasterCrief said:

Yeah, I'm really conflicted on that game. On one hand, I'm firmly on the Falcons bandwagon right now, but on the other hand, Shanahan is the guy I really want as our next head coach, and I'd like to hear about that asap.

I think you'll hear about it asap because I think Seattle wins that game

[snkdy]

3 minutes ago, MasterCrief said:

Yeah, I'm really conflicted on that game. On one hand, I'm firmly on the Falcons bandwagon right now, but on the other hand, Shanahan is the guy I really want as our next head coach, and I'd like to hear about that asap.

 

I really like ATL but it wouldn't surprise me if they lost in embarrassing fashion.

[snkdy]

3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Yeah I definitely will be. As well as the Texans/Patriots game. I wouldn't mind either Shanahan or McDaniels

 

I would rather have the former to be honest. I'm not sure about McDaniels.

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

I would rather have the former to be honest. I'm not sure about McDaniels.

I would probably prefer Shanahan as well. But I do think McDaniels is underrated

[ManningGM]

7 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I think you'll hear about it asap because I think Seattle wins that game

Yeah, I don't have a lot of faith in ATL sport teams come playoff time. 

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, ManningGM said:

Yeah, I don't have a lot of faith in ATL sport teams come playoff time. 

Ain't that the truth

[backshoulderfade]

The worst thing about this isn't missong out on Gruden. It's the uncertainty, not just amongst fans but also with the players and staff.

[ColtsBlueFL]

13 hours ago, Indeee said:

Look... all of this talk as an uncomfortable situation is hogwash...

 

Irsay needs and probably will sit these 2 knuckleheads down, especially Pagano and say " look I agreed to both extensions but not being able to beat a HORRIBLE AFC south to make the playoffs with the top QB in the division is unacceptable... NO EXCUSES and youre damn right I'm gonna replace you if I can because clearly you are in over your head, so consider yourself as dead guys walking regardless of whether you are here next year or not. Either get it together or get out!!"

 

Thats it and that's all wrapped in a bow...

 

The 3 had a long  talk last year, and set expectations then.  I'm sure everyone knows where they stand without meetings this year.

 

13 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

I agree he should resign, but the salary is a matter of his contract language.  I'm guessing there's some protection for both sides, unless Irsay completely gave in.  We know nothing about that, we don't even know how much he's getting paid.

 

Typically, the only protection for owners I am aware of is offset language in the guaranteed contract, firing for cause, or breach of contract.  The only successful firing for cause I know of was Al Davis firing of Lane Kiffin, which an arbitrator later upheld.

 

13 hours ago, Stephen said:

There was one rumor by brad wells that said Gruden wanted 10 million a year but  who knows how reliable that is.

 

The highest paid coaches are Sean Payton and Pete Carroll at $8,000,000.00 each.  Then Bill Belichick at 7.5 million per year. Gruden asking for 10 would be a 25% increase or more over those top coaches.   With Chuck making $4,5 million per year before offsets (if he gets another job) , that mean Irsay would be paying almost 15 million a year for head coaching. That is incredibly steep, your talking middle tier QB money.

[colts_mp]

There's a lot more to speculate about in this saga.  

 

Seems like Chuck must go now that this has leaked out but if I'm Chuck maybe I just coach until they fire me, whenever that is.  He's a cancer survivor so when he's done here he can spend time with his family and friends and be financially secure .  Not a bad retirement . 

 

If he is fired what happens to Grigson?  Does he have any input on the coach or will he now be stuck with the coach Irsay gets?  

 

Also, what about the waiting for Peyton Manning to be ready for the GM position, presumably sometime in the next year or two ?  What coach would want to come here knowing the GM spot is not secure ?  Isn't it standard for a new GM to hire his own coaches?

 

Just some food for thought.  Hope others here have some more insight .

[VocableLoki]

1 hour ago, snkdy said:

If Irsay truly wants a coaching change, why not fire Pagano to begin with? Does keeping Pagano on the job and then holding discussions with Gruden imply that it was either Gruden or bust? That doesn't make any sense to me. Why limit yourself, especially to a former coach that hasn't done the job in years?

 

The way this reads, Irsay wanted a splashy big name and was looking for someone he perceived to be an upgrade over Pagano. Probably Gruden and then your usual college rumors would be the guys on his list. It may be that he wasn't sold that Pagano needs to go but was exploring options. You don't want to fire a guy whose worst crime is having two underwhelming seasons and then be stuck not being able to hire someone you think is better.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

The 3 had a long  talk last year, and set expectations then.  I'm sure everyone knows where they stand without meetings this year.

 

 

Typically, the only protection for owners I am aware of is offset language in the guaranteed contract, firing for cause, or breach of contract.  The only successful firing for cause I know of was Al Davis firing of Lane Kiffin, which an arbitrator later upheld.

 

 

The highest paid coaches are Sean Payton and Pete Carroll at $8,000,000.00 each.  The Bill Belichick at 7.5 million per year.  ruden asking for 10 would be a 25% increase or more over those top coaches.   With Chuck making $4,5 million per year before offsets (if he gets another job) , that mean Irsay would be paying almost 15 million a year for head coaching. That is incredibly steep, your talking middle tier QB money.

Jims dumb fault, should have fits them last year

[Fisticuffs111]

Just now, VocableLoki said:

The way this reads, Irsay wanted a splashy big name and was looking for someone he perceived to be an upgrade over Pagano. Probably Gruden and then your usual college rumors would be the guys on his list. It may be that he wasn't sold that Pagano needs to go but was exploring options. You don't want to fire a guy whose worst crime is having two underwhelming seasons and then be stuck not being able to hire someone you think is better.

Yeah, but you also don't want that coach to know you're actively looking for his replacement.

[VocableLoki]

Just now, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, but you also don't want that coach to know you're actively looking for his replacement.

 

By no means am I arguing that it was handled well or that it is the right way to go about it. I just read the situation that way.

[B~Town]

Not gonna get a big name coach with Grigs still employed no big name coach is going to want to tarnish there legacy with the void of talent Grigs is responsible for .