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Colts Should Convert Either Green or Geathers into an ILB


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The game has changed, and we have to look at positions differently.  Sub package dominate the downs where plays need to be made. 

 

Geathers is a prototype Dime LB that can play Nickel LB or Base and Big Nickel Safety - very versatile.

 

Green doesn't really do anything well enough to have a position yet, but if he gets better, it will probably be as a SS that has the range to make plays in space sideline to sideline and cover TE man to man.  Its unlikely he'll ever develop the instincts for single high skills, but you never know.  Plenty of ways for him to get on the field without converting to LB, though he could fill in for Geathers as a functional Dime LB when Geathers is nicked up.

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25 minutes ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

The Colts need to add another safety and continue to develop Green and Geathers, but I think we need to add a proven or a stud in the draft and allow Geathers to roam the field.

 

Eric Berry at FS, Geathers at SS/hybrid, and Green as a third safety... that group might look really good.

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55 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I dont get the whole "you are a fan so your automatically dumber then Grigson and Pagano" thing it's sad that people on a msg board woukd have put together better drafts then the jack *** being paid millions. 

 

What I find sad is that you and others actually think yu can draft better than they do.

 

I think I'm very sharp when it comes to the draft,  but I don't think for a minute that I'd do a better job than they do.

 

They've got the info that you and I never see....    about injuries,   about character,  about psychological profiles and so much more.   

 

This job is not as easy as it looks from the outside.

 

And fans almost never know more than the front office and owner.

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

What I find sad is that you and others actually think yu can draft better than they do.

 

I think I'm very sharp when it comes to the draft,  but I don't think for a minute that I'd do a better job than they do.

 

They've got the info that you and I never see....    about injuries,   about character,  about psychological profiles and so much more.   

 

This job is not as easy as it looks from the outside.

 

And fans almost never know more than the front office and owner.

If that's the case then they are not putting all that extra knowledge to good use. 

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2 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

If that's the case then they are not putting all that extra knowledge to good use. 

 

Maybe.     But you don't know that.

 

And no one knows that for sure until we see how Clark and Green turn out.

 

They made a decision to go younger and to gamble on great raw tools.     If it works out,  then the Colts will have hit a home run....    if not,  then the grade goes down accordingly.

 

But we won't know for some time.   

 

But as a fan,  you think you know NOW.        But you don't.      And until you understand that,   you're going to continue to think you know better.....

 

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36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

What I find sad is that you and others actually think yu can draft better than they do.

 

I think I'm very sharp when it comes to the draft,  but I don't think for a minute that I'd do a better job than they do.

 

They've got the info that you and I never see....    about injuries,   about character,  about psychological profiles and so much more.   

 

This job is not as easy as it looks from the outside.

 

And fans almost never know more than the front office and owner.

I don't think I could but I'm sure there are some here that could. The fact that others have made better picks in the past with less info is the embarrassing part

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46 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Maybe.     But you don't know that.

 

And no one knows that for sure until we see how Clark and Green turn out.

 

They made a decision to go younger and to gamble on great raw tools.     If it works out,  then the Colts will have hit a home run....    if not,  then the grade goes down accordingly.

 

But we won't know for some time.   

 

But as a fan,  you think you know NOW.        But you don't.      And until you understand that,   you're going to continue to think you know better.....

 

I was kidding but it's not as hard to scout and select players as you think. Plenty of posters on here have hit on draft picks for the Colts while our actual front office has missed. One example is drafting Werner when many people wanted Xavier Rhodes. This front office likes to take risks in the draft (TJ Green, trade for Richardson) rather than prospects that are relatively safe.  

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

What I find sad is that you and others actually think yu can draft better than they do.

 

I think I'm very sharp when it comes to the draft,  but I don't think for a minute that I'd do a better job than they do.

 

They've got the info that you and I never see....    about injuries,   about character,  about psychological profiles and so much more.   

 

This job is not as easy as it looks from the outside.

 

And fans almost never know more than the front office and owner.

 

Whatever info they had about Green that we didn't have, I Wish they also didn't have it. haha

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1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I don't think I could but I'm sure there are some here that could. The fact that others have made better picks in the past with less info is the embarrassing part

 

No one here has made better draft picks than them.     Not for a full draft.

 

They might've had a better 1st round pick here.       Or a 2nd round pick there.      But not a full draft.

 

Because none of us has the information that they have.

 

We may list a nice looking mock,   but no one ever goes back to look at if a mock was actually good or not.   Realistic or not.      If it was even possible or not.        We're all mostly guessing.       Don't kid yourself.

 

It's not as easy as it looks.     

 

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57 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

I was kidding but it's not as hard to scout and select players as you think. Plenty of posters on here have hit on draft picks for the Colts while our actual front office has missed. One example is drafting Werner when many people wanted Xavier Rhodes. This front office likes to take risks in the draft (TJ Green, trade for Richardson) rather than prospects that are relatively safe.  

 

It's always harder.    Always.

 

Because we have access to limited information.      Yes,  I wanted Rhodes or Hopkins over Werner.    But that doesn't make me a GM.

 

Do you know which players Irsay will let you pick and which he won't over character issues?     Until you know that,  then you don't know enough.

 

Do you know which players the team docs will let you pick and which they won't over health issues?     Until you know that,  then you don't know enough.

 

 

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's always harder.    Always.

 

Because we have access to limited information.      Yes,  I wanted Rhodes or Hopkins over Werner.    But that doesn't make me a GM.

 

Do you know which players Irsay will let you pick and which he won't over character issues?     Until you know that,  then you don't know enough.

 

Do you know which players the team docs will let you pick and which they won't over health issues?     Until you know that,  then you don't know enough.

 

 

I understand what you're saying but I don't agree. Irsay signed off on Dorsett so it couldn't be that hard to get his approval...

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1 minute ago, SP_21 said:

I understand what you're saying but I don't agree. Irsay signed off on Dorsett so it couldn't be that hard to get his approval...

 

Dorsett didn't have character or health issues.

 

And he was ranked highly on the scouts board.      If you trust your scouts,  then you let them do their job.

 

This pick was controversial to the fans,  but it was not controversial to the front office.

 

Irsay himself said the pick was made because with so many 3 wide receiver sets,  then wanted a player who would be better than the 3rd corner he'd be facing.       Our 3rd WR would be better than another teams 3rd corner.        That literally came from Irsay on draft night.      I'm sure the interview is somewhere on this website.

 

 

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4 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Jeez. Is this forum always this harsh on early draft picks going into year 2 that didn't perform well in the first year?

 

Yep. Regardless of whether you were drafted in round 1 or 7, if you can't play like a 10 year starter week 1 year 1, you're completely useless. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not, that's actually how a lot of folks judge draft picks here.

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5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Dorsett didn't have character or health issues.

 

And he was ranked highly on the scouts board.      If you trust your scouts,  then you let them do their job.

 

This pick was controversial to the fans,  but it was not controversial to the front office.

 

Irsay himself said the pick was made because with so many 3 wide receiver sets,  then wanted a player who would be better than the 3rd corner he'd be facing.       Our 3rd WR would be better than another teams 3rd corner.        That literally came from Irsay on draft night.      I'm sure the interview is somewhere on this website.

 

 

K

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1 hour ago, SP_21 said:

I was kidding but it's not as hard to scout and select players as you think. Plenty of posters on here have hit on draft picks for the Colts while our actual front office has missed. One example is drafting Werner when many people wanted Xavier Rhodes. This front office likes to take risks in the draft (TJ Green, trade for Richardson) rather than prospects that are relatively safe.  

Not one person here puts in the hours scouting that any nfl scout does.  

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1 hour ago, SP_21 said:

I was kidding but it's not as hard to scout and select players as you think. Plenty of posters on here have hit on draft picks for the Colts while our actual front office has missed. One example is drafting Werner when many people wanted Xavier Rhodes. This front office likes to take risks in the draft (TJ Green, trade for Richardson) rather than prospects that are relatively safe.  

 

I agree.  I think people equate football knowledge with the ability to draft well.  I don't think it works that way.  Honestly, the biggest factor is probably luck.

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3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Not one person here puts in the hours scouting that any nfl scout does.  

 

Agreed. Watching a few hours of YouTube highlight videos doesn't really count as "scouting." Seriously, can you imagine the amount of digging & scouting resources that go into just getting a guy like, say, Chester Rogers on an NFL GMs radar? Or Jack Doyle? Or Erik Swoope, a guy that didn't even play football? And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of very smart fans on this forum... none of which I think would survive a single month of being an NFL scout.

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9 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Could be.  But dorsett and green were rated pretty high on many "experts" boards.  They are both very young yet

I'm not giving up on them. I was using them as an example of how this front office likes to gamble in the draft. Both guys are/were raw and need coaching and experience. IMO there were safer no brainer picks still on the board that made more sense. 

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True story just as one example.

 

The 49ers took Aldon Smith with the 7th overall pick back in 2011.      That was a little higher than most thought.

 

First two and a half years,  he was lights out.    A terror pass rush from the outside.     The 49ers looked like geniuses for taking him that high.

 

Then, a little more than halfway through his 3rd year,  the suspensions started coming.    And he had more trouble in 2014 and 2015.    And, of course,  he sat out all of this year with suspension.

 

How does that top-10 draft pick look now?

 

During all those repeated suspensions,  I read an article with a quote from an unnamed GM who said basically this.......    "We all knew how good Aldon Smith was.    He was a great player.    But we also knew he's basically crazy and has all sorts of personal demons and we decided he wasn't worth the risk."

 

Fans didn't know any of that.     But GM's did.     And it's that way with a lot of players.     Why didn't your favorite team take your favorite college player?      Because of character issues or health issues that none of us knows about.       There's more to scouting and deciding who you want than just looking at tape and figuring out who is best from that.

 

Best ability is availability.     Doesn't do you any good to be standing on the sidelines if you can't play because you got suspended or you've got a chronic knee problem.

 

These things are important!

 

If just anybody could do this job,  than just anybody would be doing it.

 

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6 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

Venturi said Green couldn't tackle a blocking dummy last week. 

 

So?     It's true.

 

But that doesn't mean it will always be true.

 

In week #1,  Le'Raven Clark likely couldn't block my mother and mom has been dead for more than 25 years.

 

But look at him by the end of the year.       Players grow.     They get better.      They improve.     That's what the Colts hope will happen with Green.

 

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7 hours ago, SP_21 said:

I was kidding but it's not as hard to scout and select players as you think. Plenty of posters on here have hit on draft picks for the Colts while our actual front office has missed. One example is drafting Werner when many people wanted Xavier Rhodes. This front office likes to take risks in the draft (TJ Green, trade for Richardson) rather than prospects that are relatively safe.  

To be fair we don't know, and will never know, if Rhodes would have been a better pick here. Sure he looks good with the Vikings, but things like scheme, coaching and the personnel around you play big factors in team sports. He could have just as easily been a bust had we picked him, especially given the coaches we have on defense. 

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Landon Collins was trash in 2015?

 

You may be right,  but I don't recall reading that anywhere.

 

And all we read here on this website were posters saying "Look,  we could've had Landon Collins, and we took Phillip Dorsett!" 

 

Any chance you're confusing him with someone else?

 

Well according to this PFF article he was the worst coverage safety in the NFL in 2015. And I recall a lot of articles backing this claim up last spring, saying he was a rookie and had a lot to fix in his game. 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-secondaries-entering-the-2016-season/

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24 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Well according to this PFF article he was the worst coverage safety in the NFL in 2015. And I recall a lot of articles backing this claim up last spring, saying he was a rookie and had a lot to fix in his game. 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-secondaries-entering-the-2016-season/

 

 

Thanks!      Appreciate the good info.

 

And this would be encouraging that perhaps Green will show improvement in Year 2.

 

Funny how things turn out......       thanks again!

 

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11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So?     It's true.

 

But that doesn't mean it will always be true.

 

In week #1,  Le'Raven Clark likely couldn't block my mother and mom has been dead for more than 25 years.

 

But look at him by the end of the year.       Players grow.     They get better.      They improve.     That's what the Colts hope will happen with Green.

 

Let's hope so. He said Green and Morrison on film have no capability to tackle anyone that's not inline. He should know. I'm sure the Colts know. This was a week or so ago. 

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13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So?     It's true.

 

But that doesn't mean it will always be true.

 

In week #1,  Le'Raven Clark likely couldn't block my mother and mom has been dead for more than 25 years.

 

But look at him by the end of the year.       Players grow.     They get better.      They improve.     That's what the Colts hope will happen with Green.

 

They do but typically they're good at the basics of their positions. You would think a guy you drafted to play safety would at least know how to cover and tackle (granted he's only been a safety for 2 and a half years).

 

Clark is different because he had never played with his hand in the dirt. He never had to do the things that an NFL OL would do. I get why he's raw but even he may more strides than Green as the season went on.

 

Im not saying Green is a bust or should already be good. But he should have shown more than what he has. All he's shown so far is what we knew about him on draft day, which is that he's big and fast. That's why I suggested a position switch. I don't see him developing the coverage skills to play FS. He's got similar measurables to Peppers who is coming out and people are talking about being a hybrid safety/LB. Don't see why Green can't do the same.

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I think its a bad thing to be so afraid of a mistake being made in roster building that it stymies outside of the box thinking. You have a guy in Geathers who's been playing a LB role for 2 years now. We know he's a striker, we know he's sideline to sideline. We also know he's got some coverage limitations when it comes to a traditional safety role. I think he's more effective against backs and tight ends than he is with any type of coverage on a WR. If you play him at ILB he got some elite characteristics in terms of size and speed. Characteristics you may not find in any of these ILB in this draft. If the coaches are fully convinced he can handle it then that's one less LB you have to draft. Yeah you may have to find a good safety but I think that's easier to replace. I wouldn't rule out moving him to ILB as a possibility.

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2 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think its a bad thing to be so afraid of a mistake being made in roster building that it stymies outside of the box thinking. You have a guy in Geathers who's been playing a LB role for 2 years now. We know he's a striker, we know he's sideline to sideline. We also know he's not that he's got some coverage limitations when it comes to a traditional safety role. I think he's more effective against backs and tight ends than he is with any type of coverage on a WR. If you play him at ILB he got some elite characteristics in terms of size and speed. Characteristics you may not find in any of these ILB in this draft. If the coaches are fully convinced he can handle it then that's one less LB you have to draft. Yeah you may have to find a good safety but I think that's easier to replace. I wouldn't rule out moving him to ILB as a possibility.

Precisely. Geathers hits hard and makes good reads. And he basically has the coverage skills of the typical WILL anyways. He's got like 4.5 speed too. Draft a guy like Jamal Adams to play SS. 

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7 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Precisely. Geathers hits hard and makes good reads. And he basically has the coverage skills of the typical WILL anyways. He's got like 4.5 speed too. Draft a guy like Jamal Adams to play SS. 

Hell along with Adams we might even want to entertain picking up Eric Berry. I was against it at first because of the money and developing guys like TJ. Get Berry, draft Adams or Hooker. Move TJ to the dime backer maybe. His lack of awareness is a bit concerning. Clayton to ILB. We would have plenty of capability to matchup with anybody. Draft one ILB, somebody like Jarrad Davis or Raekwon. Hopefully we can get Ingram or somebody else in FA and draft two pass rushers. I'm just thinking out loud.

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I'd rather find an ILB that has the spatial awareness, coordination, speed and play recognition ability to know how to cover so we can be able to employ Geathers in many other ways to make our defense more versatile

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4 minutes ago, krunk said:

Hell along with Adams we might even want to entertain picking up Eric Berry. I was against it at first because of the money and developing guys like TJ. Get Berry, draft Adams or Hooker. Move TJ to the dime backer maybe. His lack of awareness is a bit concerning. Clayton to ILB. We would have plenty of capability to matchup with anybody. Draft one ILB, somebody like Jarrad Davis or Raekwon. Hopefully we can get Ingram or somebody else in FA and draft two pass rushers. I'm just thinking out loud.

We can't address every need with FA and the draft. That's why you have to look for answers on your roster. Geathers to ILB takes care of that issue. Bring in Berry and draft one of the safeties we mentioned and now you just need a LB to play next to Geathers. 

 

Need a a pass rusher so you sign Ingram and maybe get One in the draft. But those moves are better than trying to get. CB, RB, two ILBs, and 2 ILBs in one draft.

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