No comments from Irsay yet [Merge]

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

LOL, this is like waiting for the white smoke to emanate from the chimney placed atop the Sistine Chapel!

 

Before the pope leaves...

[chrisfarley]

5 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

LOL, this is like waiting for the white smoke to emanate from the chimney placed atop the Sistine Chapel!

Excellent analogy, I think he's working out a severance package for Grigson/Pagano.... probably having to do some negotiations and his lawyers are probably hard at work too (dotting i's crossing t's).... smoke coming soon !!

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Before the pope dies...

Before pope Peyton is elected!

[Colts_Fan12]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's not concrete, which is why we were all waiting for Black Monday. He definitely left himself an out. But end of the day, he said 'I don't anticipate making any changes,' so it's kind of silly to keep waiting for changes.

 

After he said that, the team went 2-1. Not great, still should have done better, and two of those games were ugly, including the finale. I get why we're hoping he does something, but maybe we should take him at his word at this point.

I'm already sure they are back but just come out and say it. Then the media will stop camping at the facility. 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

While I agree with most of your points, I'd also argue that the only thing as bad as change just for the sake of change is continuity for the sake of continuity. Irsay has stated that he thinks continuity is important, however that cannot be the deciding factor.

 

Neither can saying "there weren't better options so we stuck with what we had". That type of mentality works with players sometimes but never with executives and coaches. It's actually insulting to all parties involved. Plus you're subtly standing for mediocrity when you don't make change on a team that underperformed like ours.

 

My thing is if the staff doesn't inspire confidence to win championships, then you have to move on. So many people here are quick to point out that he just resigned him, so he shouldn't cut them but that logic is so flawed. There's never a wrong time to make change. The Rams extended Fisher and then he was gone weeks later. I don't know why people feel as if Pagano and Grigson are above that. Granted Fisher lost a lot more and is probably a worse coach than Pagano, but that shouldn't matter. 

 

Theres really no sound argument as to why it'd be wrong to let either/both of them go. I feel like the only argument for keeping them is for continuity which I've already explained why that's wrong.

Like I said I am in favor of change.  I think Grigson is improving based on his latest draft and free agent classes but I think it's too little too late. I think Chuck's biggest flaw is that he sees things the way he wants to see them vs how they really are.  I don't think that's going to change this I don't think he's the right man for job. So I am all for Irsay looking for upgrades.

 

While I think both could be improved on I do reconzginze that things could get worse.  So what I don't want is Irsay firing both of them and then not being able to land guys he feels are upgrades.  If he lands guys he thinks are about what he has now or worse id rather him keep what he has because they are going to be where they are now again in very short order and that's how teams end up like the 49ers and in total disarray.  

 

I also think Irsay knows this which is why he's taking his time. 

 

I laid three options for what I think could be going on.  Of those I dismiss option one as there is nothing to gain by not coming out and answering everyone's questions and saying everyone is staying 

 

I really hope it's not option two where Irsay just doesn't know what he wants to do and everything is just in the air.

 

i think and hope he's doing option three which is targeting who he wants and trying to get them in place before making a change.  If he's doing that I think Grigson and Pagano returning are on the table for the reason I listed above.  Irsay knows he has to get this right and he's not going to blow it all up unless he knows he has the guy he wants in place to fix it.  If he can't get that guy or one of those guys if he has a short list he will stick with Grigson and Pagano at least for one more year and hope Grigson continues to grow in his job and hope the Chuck that got them to the AFCCG shows back up.  I know that's not what people want to see happen but I think it's an option if Irsay doesn't get the person he wants.  

[mahagga73]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

The way I see it there are three posablitlies going on with Irsay right now:

 

1.  Irsay is treating everything as business as usual with no changes and doesn't feel the need to tell the media which is dumb.

 

2.  Irsay honestly hasn't made up his mind yet which is scary.

 

3.  Irsay is waiting on something to happen or someone to get back to him.  When he fired Tobin he brought in Polian that day and it was revealed after the fact he had the deal in place before firing Tobin.  Marlin Jackson also said on the radio he knew Peyton and Irsay had talks and that the ball was in Peyton's court.  It could be Irsay is waiting to hear back from Peyton or someone else as to if they want the job and if they say yes then he will make moves and if they say no he will move on to plan B which might be keeping Grigson and Pagano.  

 

As much as I think change is needed I think it needs to be the RIGHT change, not change for the sake of change.  If Irsay doesn't feel like he can get the right person right now I'd rather keep Grigson and Pagano for another year than getting the wrong person and become like the 49ers who will be on their fourth head coach in four years.  

I think something's up. 

[JMichael557]

2 hours ago, John Waylon said:

It's still a little early to claim the Allen deal as a wash. Yes he had a disappointing season, but there's no reason he can't bounce back.

Did Robinson underperform? He was injured too much this year to have even the slightest clue. Maybe next you can tell me all about how his injuries are grigson's fault as well.

You mean to tell us that TJ Green can't play? Go back and try that one again.

Freeman walking wasn't done for no reason. Grigson wasn't sitting in his office too busy playing candy crush to deal with him. Whatever that reason was we don't know, but we did better without Freeman than the Bears did with him so let's not call that one a wash, either.

Dorsett showed off his playmaking ability on multiple occasions this season. The coaching staff just isn't making the most of him. And let's use some common sense here. One year ago today Irsay accepted the fate of whatever drafting Dorsett was going to bring be it good, bad, or indifferent. Why would he punish grigson now for something he accepted a year ago, that was already beyond grigson's control all along?

Go back and look at this draft class and tell me grigson did a bad job. Get your hate blinders off, bud. He earned a high passing grade in the last year.

*

I was not hating on anyone. The original premise was “What has Grigson done or not done in the last year that would cause Irsay to say that you are continuing to fail and therefore I am letting you go”.  In other words, what has Grigson done wrong this year that might lead to his dismissal.

 

The first concern about Grigson is his evaluation of players based upon know facts. He decided to trade for Richardson when he had knowledge of what type of Pro Back he was with Cleveland. He could see Richardson's lack of production but made the trade anyway. Instead of that trade we could have drafted an impact Defensive Player. He drafter Warner despite the fact that he was simply to slow. He was a bust because he is too slow. We could have drafted an impact defensive player. He took a chance on Dorsett despite most evaluations having him drafted much lower. I did not see any special playmaking ability form Dorsett. We could have drafted an impact defensive player. So last year as an OWNER I would have said to Grigson that you cannot continue to make these mistakes on a regular basis. In the year 2016 you must get better at evaluating talent.

 

So lets look at evaluating talent for 2016 He had 3 inside linebackers on the team. He let the best player walk and paid the other 2 LBers who were then so bad they were cut. This is a continuation of the same problem. He then paid millions of dollars to Allen who has never performed like a top level Tight End. He is not as good as Doyle. He is OK not a superstar that deserves superstar money.

 

So as an OWNER I would say that the evaluation of our own talent has not improved in 2016. Just a continuation of the same problems.

 

In Free Agency under Grigson we have given away Millions to players that were simply not worth the money. It is one thing to pay reasonable contracts to free agents but when you make Hugh investments it has to be for players that can play.

 

In 2016 Grigson paid big money to Robinson who is not an outside corner to play outside corner. It is the same mistake as with Jones, Cole, the wide receivers, the right tackle. Mistakes that he needed to stop making.

Look at the draft. As an Owner I would have said to Grigson last year that you have had 4 draft classes and they have all been bad. (the first draft everyone initially thought was good but now that the 2 TE's are not what everyone thought they would be that class is severely downgraded). In four years (prior to the 2016 draft) Grigson has drafted only 1 offensive lineman that we can use. He has drafted 1 reliable WR (TY). Moncrief could still come around but the wait is getting frustrating. On Defense he has drafted one DL in Anderson. Zero LBers, zero CB's and One Safety (Gathers).  So out of 4 years he has had approximately 28 picks and we have Luck, TY, Mewhort, Anderson, Gathers. (argue Moncrief).  That is only (5 or 6) players.

 

So now we come to the 2016 draft. As an owner trying to make a decision now I have to see if I believe that Grigson is learning. He took Kelly in the first round. That is a positive sign as he finally took a player that we needed and one who can play instead of trying to outsmart everyone. (if he had done that with past drafts we would have at least 3 additional defensive starters).

 

As an OWNER having to make a decision today I have to review the class to see if they will be around in the future. As of now our 2nd Round pick cannot play, our 3rd round pick is a project. He is not strong enough and he gets beat around the edges. Morrison is to slow, Haig cannot pick up a twist or stunt. I think that Ridgeway is a good pick based upon where he was selected.  So as an Owner I am concerned about whether this class will be the same as the past classes. Admittedly I would not know until a few more years go by but I have to make a decision today.

 

So as an OWNER I could certainly decide that despite my talks with my GM in January 2016 that his handling of the franchise has not changed. My QB is going into his sixth year and I cannot afford to throw away any more years. In 2017 my team is drafting higher than usual and I have lots of money to spend in free agency. However, if the same mistakes are made as were made in the prior years then the franchise could become Cleveland. If mistakes are not made, we could be back in the playoffs. It is a critical year. As the OWNER, I could certainly decide based upon the fact that I can no longer afford to keep the same GM who in my opinion is not as good as Tobin who I fired.

 

Again I am not hating on Grigson, the question is what would cause IRSAY to terminate Grigson based upon what happened the first 4 years and what happened team wise in 2016. Based upon that an argument could be made that a change is needed.

 

On the other hand if as an OWNER I believe that after 5 years my GM picking only 7 starters in the draft is a good job and if I believe that Allen and Dorsett will becomes stars and if I believe that Grigson has now learned how to evaluate and pay free agents and if I believe that Clark will get stronger and Haig will learn to pick up stunts, and If I believe that Green will be a really good safety once he learns who to play the position THEN I might want to keep Grigson to run the organization.

 

Regardless all of this is up to IRSAY to decide. I just hope that he makes the right decision.

 

 

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, mahagga73 said:

I think something's up. 

I agree.  I think he's waiting to hear back from someone.

[jvan1973]

26 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Before the pope leaves...

When the new pope is elected

[RockThatBlue]

Mathis said he doesn't know if Pagano will be back.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshWilsonSB/status/816749129669951492

 

[Colt Overseas]

Something is surely going on..

[JColts72]

These endless rumors do make for good entertainment here.

[gacoop1]

The great anticipation.?!  All ya'll chill, Grigs and Pags tag team  ain't leaving nowhere, no how and not anytime soon.. They're staying put amigos....Brace yourself for another non-participant season in the playoffs, then I think Irsay will make up his mind then before Black Monday if the team duplicate the 2016 effort which I have no doubts they will,  if there are no moves in the organization to be made...Too bad, so sad...

[BOTT]

7 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I'm sure you do.  I think most don't.

And they arent going to get it with him repeatedly telling them how dumb they are.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

Excellent analogy, I think he's working out a severance package for Grigson/Pagano.... probably having to do some negotiations and his lawyers are probably hard at work too (dotting i's crossing t's).... smoke coming soon !!

 

I want an atomic bomb style mushroom cloud.

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

lol everytime someone's thread gets merged, there's always this little part inside of me that wants to point and laugh.  .  Like, it's not even that big of a deal, but it I feel vindicated when it happens - particularly when the subject matter of the thread was poor to begin with.  

 

Not when it's news, though that's a little funny in its own right because I feel sometimes people just want to be the first to post the thread on big news.  Just when people post complaint threads about the same topics over and over about the HC or GM - like, they're pinned at the top already!  

 

So yeah, I find a little humor in that.  ***  I'd be so liberal merging threads into those pinned threads if I were a mod and be like "Mwwaaaahhahahahaha!  Take that sucka!"  ***

 

OK, I'm not able to do anything for the time being... as my sides are hurting and I am using my hands to lessen the effects while I try to regain some composure...

[OffensivelyPC]

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

And they arent going to get it with him repeatedly telling them how dumb they are.

You know a  well-constructed argument wouldn't do any better. At least name calling is fun and less time consuming

[chrisfarley]

Just getting stranger by the minute: Source: http://bleacherreport.com/nfl

 

ProFootballTalk 

 

✔@ProFootballTalk

As Jim Irsay remains silent, Ryan Grigson meets with players http://wp.me/p14QSB-adDV 

9:40 PM - 4 Jan 2017

Amid lingering silence from Irsay, Grigson meets with players

Three full days into the Indianapolis offseason, Colts owner Jim Irsay still has said nothing publicly or privately to indicate that coach Chuck Pagano and/or G.M. Ryan Grigson will return. But there...

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

[CoachLite]

16 hours ago, Colt Overseas said:

Something is surely going on..

Yep. As hard as it has been being a fan, I'd hate to be the owners and front office right now. The villagers are at the door, with torches.

[1959Colts]

 

[Defjamz26]

20 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Like I said I am in favor of change.  I think Grigson is improving based on his latest draft and free agent classes but I think it's too little too late. I think Chuck's biggest flaw is that he sees things the way he wants to see them vs how they really are.  I don't think that's going to change this I don't think he's the right man for job. So I am all for Irsay looking for upgrades.

 

While I think both could be improved on I do reconzginze that things could get worse.  So what I don't want is Irsay firing both of them and then not being able to land guys he feels are upgrades.  If he lands guys he thinks are about what he has now or worse id rather him keep what he has because they are going to be where they are now again in very short order and that's how teams end up like the 49ers and in total disarray.  

 

I also think Irsay knows this which is why he's taking his time. 

 

I laid three options for what I think could be going on.  Of those I dismiss option one as there is nothing to gain by not coming out and answering everyone's questions and saying everyone is staying 

 

I really hope it's not option two where Irsay just doesn't know what he wants to do and everything is just in the air.

 

i think and hope he's doing option three which is targeting who he wants and trying to get them in place before making a change.  If he's doing that I think Grigson and Pagano returning are on the table for the reason I listed above.  Irsay knows he has to get this right and he's not going to blow it all up unless he knows he has the guy he wants in place to fix it.  If he can't get that guy or one of those guys if he has a short list he will stick with Grigson and Pagano at least for one more year and hope Grigson continues to grow in his job and hope the Chuck that got them to the AFCCG shows back up.  I know that's not what people want to see happen but I think it's an option if Irsay doesn't get the person he wants.  

Wow, that was a well thought out and well written post. I agree with everything you said, especially the part about Irsay landing guys he WANTS and believes in. That's always what Ive wanted.

 

 I think it's clear that his faith in the current administration has waivered. If he believes there's someone better than I hope he acts on it. But I think that's what he's doing.

[grmasterb]

29 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

Who are these jokers, and why should anyone care what they think?

[Colts_Fan12]

7 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

Who are these jokers, and why should anyone care what they think?

Idk who they are but there is a really strong possibility some of the stuff they said happens. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

Who are these jokers, and why should anyone care what they think?

Honestly I have never heard of them. I don't pay much attention to media heads outside of Indianapolis because they don't know our team like JMV does for example.

[grmasterb]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Honestly I have never heard of them. I don't pay much attention to media heads outside of Indianapolis because they don't know our team like JMV does for example.

I had to stop listening about 2/3 of the way through because it was nothing but ranting.  Sounds like a blogger podcast -- as Jeff Saturday would characterize, a couple of guys blogging out of their mother's basement.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

I had to stop listening about 2/3 of the way through because it was nothing but ranting.  Sounds like a blogger podcast -- as Jeff Saturday would characterize, a couple of guys blogging out of their mother's basement.

Most of the media outside of Indianapolis really don't know our team, we get media attention outside of the state because of Andrew Luck mainly. TK and Wilbon on PTI for example seem to hate us and are always negative anytime a subject comes up about the Colts, most of ESPN is for that matter. Max Kellerman is about the only one on ESPN that thinks we are still the best team in the Division despite finishing 8-8 but it is due to us having Luck. He doesn't believe in Houston at all doing anything big.

[Defjamz26]

29 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

Who are these jokers, and why should anyone care what they think?

They're nobody's but they made some decent points. I don't agree with the last minute and a half about Irsay not caring though. He's not going to fire people just because the media and fans are calling for it, but he does care. He may have made a mistake extending them, but I do think he cares about the fan base. He wants to get it right this time around.

 

Everything else they said was right on point though.

[Colts1324]

21 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

I think something's up. 

I wasn't sure st first because I thought maybe Irsay wouldn't say anything if he was keeping them. But with the players not even sure Pagano is coming back, Irsay is definitely is contemplating, confused mode. I just hope if he does have his mind set on firing them, he doesn't change it like last year. 

[Colts_Fan12]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

They're nobody's but they made some decent points. I don't agree with the last minute and a half about Irsay not caring though. He's not going to fire people just because the media and fans are calling for it, but he does care. He may have made a mistake extending them, but I do think he cares about the fan base. He wants to get it right this time around.

 

Everything else they said was right on point though.

That's what I thought too I mean seriously what reason do we have to believe the Jags Titans and Texans won't get even better this offseason and with all our holes how do you expect us to just become a complete roster in one offseason. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

That's what I thought too I mean seriously what reason do we have to believe the Jags Titans and Texans won't get even better this offseason and with all our holes how do you expect us to just become a complete roster in one offseason. 

I honestly don't think Houston will be any better until they get a QB that can be consistently Good. Watt will be back but who knows how injury prone he will be now? They are basically a 9-7 team. Titans are an 8-8/9-7 team at best IMO, Mariota's leg injury was pretty nasty and do I really need to say once again the Jags will stink next season. I say that every season and am never wrong when it comes to that.

[krunk]

Even though they are in the playoffs I keep seeing these rumors Obrien might leave.  Some type of gripe with Rick Smith.  Seems strange I guess.  Maybe over Osweiler I assume.

[Defjamz26]

6 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

That's what I thought too I mean seriously what reason do we have to believe the Jags Titans and Texans won't get even better this offseason and with all our holes how do you expect us to just become a complete roster in one offseason. 

Well the Titans are definitely trending up. Young QB and a bunch of young playmakers. Plus they beat two elite teams that we couldn't in KC and Denver (just talking about this season). Plus they've got a boat load of draft picks and their last draft and offseason was pretty good.

 

The Texans have a top 5 defense and are a competent QB away from being an elite team.

 

The Jags have a bunch of young talent that just needs to be coached up. But we've split with them this season and last so they're probably just a coach away from being "slightly above average ".

 

We can't become a complete roster in one offseason. Hence the reason people feel Grigson needs to go. If he can't keep pace with the other GMs in the division the Colts will very quickly become the worst team in the division.

[jshipp23]

51 minutes ago, krunk said:

Even though they are in the playoffs I keep seeing these rumors Obrien might leave.  Some type of gripe with Rick Smith.  Seems strange I guess.  Maybe over Osweiler I assume.

Ill take him he is underrated..

[Colts_Fan12]

57 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Well the Titans are definitely trending up. Young QB and a bunch of young playmakers. Plus they beat two elite teams that we couldn't in KC and Denver (just talking about this season). Plus they've got a boat load of draft picks and their last draft and offseason was pretty good.

 

The Texans have a top 5 defense and are a competent QB away from being an elite team.

 

The Jags have a bunch of young talent that just needs to be coached up. But we've split with them this season and last so they're probably just a coach away from being "slightly above average ".

 

We can't become a complete roster in one offseason. Hence the reason people feel Grigson needs to go. If he can't keep pace with the other GMs in the division the Colts will very quickly become the worst team in the division.

Exactly!!

[Trace Pyott]

Can it be confirmed that irsay is even alive at this point? Has he ever remained quiet this long? Someone needs to kick in his door to make sure the dude hasn't kicked the bucket.

*

[JColts72]

Maybe there has to be a missing person search party.

[Corndog]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Most of the media outside of Indianapolis really don't know our team, we get media attention outside of the state because of Andrew Luck mainly. TK and Wilbon on PTI for example seem to hate us and are always negative anytime a subject comes up about the Colts, most of ESPN is for that matter. Max Kellerman is about the only one on ESPN that thinks we are still the best team in the Division despite finishing 8-8 but it is due to us having Luck. He doesn't believe in Houston at all doing anything big.

 

PTI is a joke, much like First Take, but I listen to quite a bit of sports radio and they usually don't trash Indy.   The consensus is this team should have won the division and should have been better this year, I don't see how that is an unfair criticism.  No one serious is sold on Houston due to their quarterback situation, although Tennessee is on the rise.  

 

 It's funny you mention Andrew Luck, because most of the people I listen to really like him and actually say due to him, this team(if there is an opening) would be the most desirable place to head coach/gm.  Whereas many Colts fans, think we can't do better than Pagano and some fans even questions Luck's ability.    Heck as much as I hate Cowherd, he is enamored with Luck.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Corndog said:

 

PTI is a joke, much like First Take, but I listen to quite a bit of sports radio and they usually don't trash Indy.   The consensus is this team should have won the division and should have been better this year, I don't see how that is an unfair criticism.  No one serious is sold on Houston due to their quarterback situation, although Tennessee is on the rise.  

 

 It's funny you mention Andrew Luck, because most of the people I listen to really like him and actually say due to him, this team(if there is an opening) would be the most desirable place to head coach/gm.  Whereas many  colts fans, think we can't do better than Pagano and some fans even questions Luck's ability.    Heck as much as I hate Cowherd, he is enamored with Luck.  

Yeah Cowherd loves Luck.

[Old Colt]

Unfortunately, the talking heads at ESPN and their low view of the Colts has been proven to be accurate these last 2 years.  I know I was thinking they were uninformed and just crazy when many of them predicted the Colts would finish 3rd at best.....  I hate it when they are right..

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Old Colt said:

Unfortunately, the talking heads at ESPN and their low view of the Colts has been proven to be accurate these last 2 years.  I know I was thinking they were uninformed and just crazy when many of them predicted the Colts would finish 3rd at best.....  I hate it when they are right..

They were right but not by much, the Division could've went either way actually, losing to Houston killed us.