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On December 24, 2016 at 7:11 PM, Colts_Fan12 said:

How long ago was that times have clearly changed is my point 

 

Don't disagree that times changed for a few years and RB's were not valued that highly.  I would also contend that the trend might be starting to switch back.  Controlling the clock and helping not only your QB but your defense, I think teams will start to be less hesitant to take them high.  

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1 minute ago, jskinnz said:

 

Don't disagree that times changed for a few years and RB's were not valued that highly.  I would also contend that the trend might be starting to switch back.  Controlling the clock and helping not only your QB but your defense, I think teams will start to be less hesitant to take them high.  

I get that Zeke is making everyone think a rb in the first is a great idea but what alothe of people forget is his line is the best run blocking line since prolly the line Emmitt smith had 

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2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I get that Zeke is making everyone think a rb in the first is a great idea but what alothe of people forget is his line is the best run blocking line since prolly the line Emmitt smith had 

 

I don't think anyone forgets that or needs to be reminded of it.  I also think it is clear that he is a special talent and would be a game changer regardless of the line.

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39 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

I don't think anyone forgets that or needs to be reminded of it.  I also think it is clear that he is a special talent and would be a game changer regardless of the line.

You can get a zeke or you can also get doug Martin 

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7 hours ago, krunk said:

I'd be all for taking a Marcus Peters type guy with a high draft pick also if we went that route. Haven't reviewed many prospects but I do like Desmond King.

King is gonna be a really good player, not sure he'll be there, but would be a good safe pick...

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2 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

King is gonna be a really good player, not sure he'll be there, but would be a good safe pick...

Its possible. Will Jackson 3 didnt go until the 24th pick. Peters didnt go until 18, although mostly due to character concerns. Wouldn't shock me if King were there.

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1 hour ago, krunk said:

Its possible. Will Jackson 3 didnt go until the 24th pick. Peters didnt go until 18, although mostly due to character concerns. Wouldn't shock me if King were there.

He is my favorite CB in the draft, he is a ball hawk, and has the best instincts in the class..He has potential to be a shutdown corner...I wouldn't be mad if we took him, he is my 3rd choice behind Fournette and Cook..

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1 hour ago, krunk said:

Its possible. Will Jackson 3 didnt go until the 24th pick. Peters didnt go until 18, although mostly due to character concerns. Wouldn't shock me if King were there.

This draft is load on CB's Colts have no excuse not to get one...Tankersly looks real good to me too, a young Antonio Cromartie...I Like Wilson,Humphries, and Sydney Jones too..If we can get a Bouye type level CB in free agency it won't be as much of a need , but it will still be hard to pass on some of these guys...

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2 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

This draft is load on CB's Colts have no excuse not to get one...Tankersly looks real good to me too, a young Antonio Cromartie...I Like Wilson,Humphries, and Sydney Jones too..If we can get a Bouye type level CB in free agency it won't be as much of a need , but it will still be hard to pass on some of these guys...

Tankersley seems to have good ball skills and instincts. So far I like him too. Pagano loves Clemson players. He also loves players from the state of Florida. He tries to get as many Florida players as he can. We have a lot of Florida players on this team. Swoope, Morrison, Gore, Geathers, Dorsett, TY Hilton. Seems when it comes to O linemen they like Big 10, Big 12, SEC outside of Haeg mostly.

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On 12/24/2016 at 4:43 PM, Defjamz26 said:

But that doesn't mean that there will be a RB worth the value at that pick. You can't just delegate taking a RB to a specific round. At that point you're reaching. Who would be there in the middle of the second round worth the pick?

 

There will be running backs to take in the 2nd round, the 3rd round,  the 4th round....

 

And you know this.       You follow the draft.....    tell me you haven't heard this is supposed to be a great year for running backs?     And it's more than just the 1st round,  and you know it.

 

Why are making this argument?       This is not like you.....

 

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Deciding whether or not to draft Dalvin Cook, or any running back, in the first round is about asking the right question.

 

Can I find a good running back in a later round?

 

That is not the right question to ask, imo. You look back at previous drafts and find examples of good running backs selected in any round. You can actually do that with any position.

 

Does Dalvin Cook change the game?

 

This is the type of question to ask. I'm sure it can be phrased better than I did. The point is that you need some real difference makers regardless if it is on offense or defense. IF you feel that Cook is an E James/M Faulk type of running back then you absolutely take him in round 1. Your running back likely touches the ball the second most times each game right after your quarterback. I don't want to minimize the impact they can have on a game.

 

 

I'm all for improving the defense. More picks need to be used on that side of the ball. I also have come to believe that balance is overrated. Competing year after year is not about minimizing your weaknesses but maximizing your strengths. (this doesn't mean you ignore your weaknesses though) An elite running back is going to be a strength for any team. I don't think you pass on that in order to chase balance.

 

I say all that to say that I don't know IF Cook is worth taking in round 1. I am saying that if he is as special as some say he is then you don't pass on him just because he plays running back.

 

Now, it becomes a different discussion if you are on the clock and deciding between Cook and one of the defensive prospects and you feel both are real difference makers. However, I'm not removing Cook from consideration based on the position he plays.

 

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Just now, Hoose said:

No trading back. This team desperately needs impact players. Get the best defensive players you can find in the first two rounds. And go in hard in free agency for pass rush and an ILB. 

And please..... Wait to pull the trigger on a RB until round 3 at the earliest. 

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33 minutes ago, Hoose said:

And please..... Wait to pull the trigger on a RB until round 3 at the earliest. 

Amen to that sentiment!! It has been proven possible to draft very good RBs outside of the first two rounds. That isn't the case for edge rushers. The days of finding a Robert Mathis are long over. We also desperately need an ILB who can both stop the run and cover tight ends and running backs over the middle. A fairly rare breed. One trick ponies can be had in the middle rounds e.g, Morrison and Herrera, but those who can do both get snapped up quickly.

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On 12/24/2016 at 7:13 AM, jshipp23 said:

The more I watch him, the more he looks like a pre-acl injury Edgerrin James..He has big play ability and rare power...If he is there in the 1st we have to take him..I like him for our offense even better than Fournette because of his pass catching ability...He will be our 3 down FRANCHISE back and make our offense unstoppable..

 

By the way,   and not for nothing....  

 

Edgerrin was 6 feet and 215-2210.     Cook is 5'11 and 205.     He feels more closer in size to Marshall Faulk, but Id be very hesitant to put him that category.      Marshall was a 1st ballot Hall of Famer.      Edge is a near Hall of Famer.

 

I wouldn't want to put that only any young running back.     Those shoes are just too big to fill.

 

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On 12/24/2016 at 10:53 AM, Colts1324 said:

He is gonna be a lot like Lamar Miller to me. I don't care. Unless it's Ezekial Elliot, I don't want to waste our first round pick on a RB. We can find one that is plenty capable later in the draft or through FA. We need defense!!! 

Seems like that has been the thought since Edge left, don't know that it's worked out

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On 12/24/2016 at 8:19 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

Taking an RB in the 1st round is the kind of thing that would completely lose the fanbase. Even if you could guarantee an rb we could get would be as good as Ezekiel Elliott, I still wouldn't do it. RB is a huge luxury pick. Luck is our centerpiece on offense and the offense is supposed to revolve around Luck. We need defense, go BPA on defense. We aren't trying to turn Luck into Dak Prescott, and that's exactly what we'd do if we surrounded Luck with a 1st round rb. It's literally the easiest position to hit on in the later rounds. Draft two rbs in the mid late rounds and have them compete with Turbin and Todman to see who starts.

This is a crazy statement.  Drafting a solid RB would be extremely beneficial for Luck.  How could you say this would turn him into Dak Prescott?  Dak has had multiple games with over 30 pass attempts and Luck would still have that as well.  If anything his attempts would be better because a defense would have to have a honest safety and not people just sitting back waiting for the pass.  Peyton had great years because he had Edge.  Plus drafting someone would not lose a fanbase.  At least not the true fans.  I did not like two moves Grigson made in Werner and Dorsett but I am still here. 

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15 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

This is a crazy statement.  Drafting a solid RB would be extremely beneficial for Luck.  How could you say this would turn him into Dak Prescott?  Dak has had multiple games with over 30 pass attempts and Luck would still have that as well.  If anything his attempts would be better because a defense would have to have a honest safety and not people just sitting back waiting for the pass.  Peyton had great years because he had Edge.  Plus drafting someone would not lose a fanbase.  At least not the true fans.  I did not like two moves Grigson made in Werner and Dorsett but I am still here. 

It would be ignoring the defense once again. Don't tell me there are 6 other rounds either, the 1st round is where the majority of NFL talent come from. You can't count on mid round defensive players hitting, you can count on a mid-round RB hitting a lot of the time though as it happens all the time. I want Luck as the centerpiece of the offense, not a balanced offense with no defense. That's exactly what we'll have if we take an rb 1st round.

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2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It would be ignoring the defense once again. Don't tell me there are 6 other rounds either, the 1st round is where the majority of NFL talent come from. You can't count on mid round defensive players hitting, you can count on a mid-round RB hitting a lot of the time though as it happens all the time. I want Luck as the centerpiece of the offense, not a balanced offense with no defense. That's exactly what we'll have if we take an rb 1st round.

I am not disagreeing with you there but your initial statement was crazy.  I would most definitely like to have a stud on the D side to be a game changer.  But if Zeke were there I would take him as well.   

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9 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I am not disagreeing with you there but your initial statement was crazy.  I would most definitely like to have a stud on the D side to be a game changer.  But if Zeke were there I would take him as well.   

I was playing fantasy football for money all year, and I had Zeke, so I know the effect of a great rb and the stats he was putting up all season. It just is a luxury pick when we could improve every position on defense. This is a draft where the strength is on defense as well, so BPA on defense will be a stud for us, even at our pick.

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45 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

Seems like that has been the thought since Edge left, don't know that it's worked out

Exactly!!! Same broken record every year by the same people..Yet, here we sit without a franchise RB once again..

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On 12/24/2016 at 8:19 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

Taking an RB in the 1st round is the kind of thing that would completely lose the fanbase. Even if you could guarantee an rb we could get would be as good as Ezekiel Elliott, I still wouldn't do it. RB is a huge luxury pick. Luck is our centerpiece on offense and the offense is supposed to revolve around Luck. We need defense, go BPA on defense. We aren't trying to turn Luck into Dak Prescott, and that's exactly what we'd do if we surrounded Luck with a 1st round rb. It's literally the easiest position to hit on in the later rounds. Draft two rbs in the mid late rounds and have them compete with Turbin and Todman to see who starts.

Everybody says it's so easy to get a rb, but we haven't had a rb to be excited about since edge, so whats the problem? If it's so easy to just get a rb in the later rounds why haven't we? Do we just not care about the rb position? And as far as turning Luck into Dak because we paired him with a great back is silly. That Rams team was a passing team, with Marshal, and I seriously doubt ole Kurt ever said "man I wish we wouldn't have gotten Marshal, he sure hurt my game".

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Just now, James Ducheteau said:

Everybody says it's so easy to get a rb, but we haven't had a rb to be excited about since edge, so whats the problem? If it's so easy to just get a rb in the later rounds why haven't we? Do we just not care about the rb position? And as far as turning Luck into Dak because we paired him with a great back is silly. That Rams team was a passing team, with Marshal, and I seriously doubt ole Kurt ever said "man I wish we wouldn't have gotten Marshal, he sure hurt my game".

Marshall Faulk was a pass catching RB, and the Rams were a specific pass happy team, so that's an extreme example. If we got Dalvin Cook, Luck's pass attempts would be lowered as Cook would get around 20 carries a game (not counting a few carries each to other rbs). I guess at this point with the way Pagano wants a power run game, I wouldn't be surprised if he lowered Luck's production if we got a franchise rb. We'd still be extremely weak on defense btw. We haven't really tried too hard at getting rbs. Vick Ballard, Josh Ferguson. These were guys in the 5th and 6th rounds. They don't always pay off. I'd suggest trading down somewhere in day 1 or 2 of the draft for a 4th-5th round pick, and using a 4th and the traded down 4th or 5th on two rbs. Get your dynamic duo, and spend the 1st two days on defense. This is acheiveable.

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1 minute ago, James Ducheteau said:

Everybody says it's so easy to get a rb, but we haven't had a rb to be excited about since edge, so whats the problem? If it's so easy to just get a rb in the later rounds why haven't we? Do we just not care about the rb position? And as far as turning Luck into Dak because we paired him with a great back is silly. That Rams team was a passing team, with Marshal, and I seriously doubt ole Kurt ever said "man I wish we wouldn't have gotten Marshal, he sure hurt my game".

Finally someone who knows what they are talking about...A great running back takes pressure off of everyone including the DEFENSE, longer time of possession keeps defense off the field,  ability to close out games on the ground, ability to get short first downs, offense becomes much less predictable which cuts down on blitzes and double teams on receivers...Just because you pick an OLB in the first doesn't mean he will be a stud...Most elite backs are taken rounds 1 or 2 ..Of course ...their are exceptions..No need to hear about them I know..

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5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Marshall Faulk was a pass catching RB, and the Rams were a specific pass happy team, so that's an extreme example. If we got Dalvin Cook, Luck's pass attempts would be lowered as Cook would get around 20 carries a game (not counting a few carries each to other rbs). I guess at this point with the way Pagano wants a power run game, I wouldn't be surprised if he lowered Luck's production if we got a franchise rb. We'd still be extremely weak on defense btw. We haven't really tried too hard at getting rbs. Vick Ballard, Josh Ferguson. These were guys in the 5th and 6th rounds. They don't always pay off. I'd suggest trading down somewhere in day 1 or 2 of the draft for a 4th-5th round pick, and using a 4th and the traded down 4th or 5th on two rbs. Get your dynamic duo, and spend the 1st two days on defense. This is acheiveable.

I realize that the rams comparison is a bit extreme, the point is not taking a RB in the first because your afraid it'd hurt Luck's numbers is silly, now if it's because you think D is a more pressing need, then that is at least a valid reason, but a power run game does help the D. The line run blocked pretty good this year really, and you can't tell me that you didn't see some of those holes Frank hit and wished we had a guy with a bit more burst. I'm not saying we have to take a RB in the first, but I definitely do not believe it would ruin the fan base. Taking project players in the first round in multiple drafts is what ruins a fan base.

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1 minute ago, James Ducheteau said:

I realize that the rams comparison is a bit extreme, the point is not taking a RB in the first because your afraid it'd hurt Luck's numbers is silly, now if it's because you think D is a more pressing need, then that is at least a valid reason, but a power run game does help the D. The line run blocked pretty good this year really, and you can't tell me that you didn't see some of those holes Frank hit and wished we had a guy with a bit more burst. I'm not saying we have to take a RB in the first, but I definitely do not believe it would ruin the fan base. Taking project players in the first round in multiple drafts is what ruins a fan base.

Yeah the Werner pick was a bit pick with and without hindsight. I do wish we had a franchise RB, but I also know even if we did, it'd maybe add a few points on average, and our defense would still be suffering. I want to take advantage of this defense heavy draft and get a few maulers that can set us up in the future for a SB run. This is just my opinion though.

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I don't mind hurting Lucks numbers if the team is made better because of it.  Everything doesn't need to be on his shoulders anyway.  We need a complete team.    If Luck sucks we should still be able to find a way to win.  As the team is currently constructed we are not as likely to win if he's struggling.

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3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't mind taking a guy like Fournette and Cook if it's the best value at the time of the pick.  A back other than those 2 and I'll have an issue.   

The more I watch foreman , the more i like him...If we don't go RB in first Id be ok with McCaffery, Gallman, or Foreman in that order in rd 2 or 3..Not sure any will be there in rd3 though..If not will better hope Bell isn't franchised and throw a ton of money his way..

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35 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

Everybody says it's so easy to get a rb, but we haven't had a rb to be excited about since edge, so whats the problem? If it's so easy to just get a rb in the later rounds why haven't we? Do we just not care about the rb position? And as far as turning Luck into Dak because we paired him with a great back is silly. That Rams team was a passing team, with Marshal, and I seriously doubt ole Kurt ever said "man I wish we wouldn't have gotten Marshal, he sure hurt my game".

We didn't need an elite back most of the peyton years and we haven't found one with Grigson cause he has no clue what talent looks like in the top 3 rounds 

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3 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

The more I watch foreman , the more i like him...If we don't go RB in first Id be ok with McCaffery, Gallman, or Foreman in that order in rd 2 or 3..Not sure any will be there in rd3 though..If not will better hope Bell isn't franchised and throw a ton of money his way..

I don't see us getting two backs out of this draft, but if he's somehow sitting there late in the draft I wouldn't be against picking him up.  Having a Cook or Fournette and then adding a bruiser like Foreman would be nice.   I don't see it happening but it would be nice.

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

We didn't need an elite back most of the peyton years and we haven't found one with Grigson cause he has no clue what talent looks like in the top 3 rounds 

Lol...we had a hall of fame back most of Peytons years, and a great steal of a back in Rhodes...Not to mention, Addai was prerty good too...Colts have had nobody on any 3 of those guys level in Luck era and it kills us..

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21 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah the Werner pick was a bit pick with and without hindsight. I do wish we had a franchise RB, but I also know even if we did, it'd maybe add a few points on average, and our defense would still be suffering. I want to take advantage of this defense heavy draft and get a few maulers that can set us up in the future for a SB run. This is just my opinion though.

I also want a franchise back I prolly want fournette more then anyone but not more then fixing this trash D

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5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Lol...we had a hall of fame back most of Peytons years, and a great steal of a back in Rhodes...Not to mention, Addai was prerty good too...Colts have had nobody on any 3 of those guys level in Luck era and it kills us..

Did we get to or win the SB with edge or Faulk?? Nope we won with Addai and Rhodes no where near elite level so nice try 

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