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13 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I'm surprised theres not a thread on it already, but anyways on SNF Florio said hes heard its likely Grigson is fired but Pagano kept.

 

Anyone else see it and thoughts?

 

I, for one, think Grigs should be shown the door before Pagano -- but like others, think it'd be odd to fire a GM and bring a new one in and force him to keep the staff.

 

While I don't think Grigs is terrible, he has made some pretty crappy decisions.  However, I thought this past offseason was one of his best yet (he seems to have done pretty well in the draft and didn't really do anything outlandish in FA).  I would like to to think Irsay realized when he resigned/extended these guys last year that he new we were going to have a bit of 'growing pains'....  and in all honesty, I think this team is pretty close to being a 'complete' team (so long as our young OL continue to develop/stay healthy) -- we're really only a few pieces (and health) away from being a legit contender.

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12 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Part of the reason I hope Pagano is fired is so people can stop complaining about his cliches. 

And then... a little time will pass and people will start complaining we play with no grit :P It's the circle of life.

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7 hours ago, Andretoindy said:

if it was me i would fire hc and keep grigs around , give him two years the next two draft are going to be deep imo in defense . grigson is learning from his mistakes and his drafts have been good . dorsett hasn,t been used correctly and develop something which is coaching job , it taken a few hits and misses but slowly have build blocks ridgeway ,anderson ,geathers  on  offense you luck ,hilton ,moncrief ,mewhort ,kelly  Haeg and clark look promising needs to work on strength and pass blocking in clark case . tj green a wait and see approach , imo being a db is one of top position to transition in the nfl / 

I will say that Grigson's last draft was pretty solid and 2015 was one of his better drafts.  Considering this is his first time being GM, it was going to learning process.  While I am still not his biggest fan, I could understand Irsay retaining him, as he has shown improvement.  Also, it would be interesting to see his players with a competent coach.  Pagano has done absolutely nothing to prove he is a top coach at this level and hasn't shown any real signs of improvement.    Another reason to go this route, I think it will be much easier to find a better coach than Pagano over a better GM than Grigson.  

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36 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

We will never be a contender as long as Pagano is the coach as he is unable to both prepare the team on a regular basis and he also does not have any control over the team.

 

Where do you get that he 'does not have any control over the team'?  It seems to me like the players like playing for Chuck.

 

Also, Chuck probably 'over-achieved' his first 3 years here, taking the team to greater heights than they probably should have reached.  The past 2 years he has probably also over-acheived.... very few teams would go 8-8 with back-ups playing most of the season (like last year) and our talent (especially OL and pass rushing) this year was not all that great (plus we had major health issues all over the place) -- we probably had 6-10 or 7-9 talent on this team, this year.

 

Chuck has still never had a losing season.

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12 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think it's about the money, although I don't think Irsay is interesting in burning tens of millions just for the sake of appearances. The point is that, one year ago, Irsay decided to commit that money to these two guys because he believed they might be "the guys." Did he change his mind in one year?

 

Hey, it's a tax write off. 

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5 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I'm thinking you have the odds way too high that Pagan is released. I would say like 60-40 favoring him staying.

 

Pagano is scheduled for a presser, so you're probably right. I guess I was testing the power of positive thinking...

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Pagano is scheduled for a presser, so you're probably right. I guess I was testing the power of positive thinking...

 

 

 

 

I just think the fact that he was quoted saying a couple of weeks ago that he didn't anticipate any major changes is pretty strong. Somehow last year  Irsay was convinced that the team needed to take a step back from trying to win right away and go into a " mini rebuild." IMO opinion pretty stupid not to realize that you would have a ton a cap space just a year later and also the give extensions to these 2 guys. So now he might fell he has to give both of them at least another year to carry out their "plan ?" 

He should really be asking himself if Pagano puts him at a disadvantage when they play the better teams in the NLF. Can he scheme and construct a gameplay to beat the Pats , the Steelers and whatever elite team arises from the NFC ? Can he make the in game adjustments ? Is he OK with the Pats just throwing an extra O Lineman on the field for 60% of the plays and just pound us for 2 consecutive games a couple years ago ? If none of this would not be changed with a brighter , more innovative head coach , then staying with C. P. is the right decision. 

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1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I just think the fact that he was quoted saying a couple of weeks ago that he didn't anticipate any major changes is pretty strong. Somehow last year  Irsay was convinced that the team needed to take a step back from trying to win right away and go into a " mini rebuild." IMO opinion pretty stupid not to realize that you would have a ton a cap space just a year later and also the give extensions to these 2 guys. So now he might fell he has to give both of them at least another year to carry out their "plan ?" 

He should really be asking himself if Pagano puts him at a disadvantage when they play the better teams in the NLF. Can he scheme and construct a gameplay to beat the Pats , the Steelers and whatever elite team arises from the NFC ? Can he make the in game adjustments ? Is he OK with the Pats just throwing an extra O Lineman on the field for 60% of the plays and just pound us for 2 consecutive games a couple years ago ? If none of this would not be changed with a brighter , more innovative head coach , then staying with C. P. is the right decision. 

 

Sounds like Pagano isn't going anywhere.

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2 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Where do you get that he 'does not have any control over the team'?  It seems to me like the players like playing for Chuck.

 

Also, Chuck probably 'over-achieved' his first 3 years here, taking the team to greater heights than they probably should have reached.  The past 2 years he has probably also over-acheived.... very few teams would go 8-8 with back-ups playing most of the season (like last year) and our talent (especially OL and pass rushing) this year was not all that great (plus we had major health issues all over the place) -- we probably had 6-10 or 7-9 talent on this team, this year.

 

Chuck has still never had a losing season.

 

Lol. Radio host was mocking the idea that some would point to Chuck never having a losing season......and there it is.

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Sounds like Pagano isn't going anywhere.

 

 

Yeah presser was a joke. 

 

 Yesterday was a "defining moment."  That's laughable as we beat a bottom 3 team at home. Pus we were helped by a coach who punted on 4th and 2 feet from around midfield late in the game ? He also could have been a little more aggressive in those play calls in the last 2 minutes ? 

 

"Everything was on me but we'll get it right."  OK... that works for me I guess . LOL The fact that Houston came into your building and your team lost for the second time to  Oswieler should have disqualified him from returning.

 

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Proof that we will use anything, no matter the source, to push our preconceived biases. Id rather people say that so-and-so be fired just cuz he sucks than someone citing Florio or Jason Cole. Not much difference in authority between an anonymous screen name on here and either of those guys.

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51 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

While also getting blown out by the Jags and Rams.

 

He took the worst team in the NFL (by far the worst team in the NFL) from 2-14 to 11-5 in his first year with a pretty much makeshift team (sure, give credit to Arians if you want) and then went 11-5 two more years in a row (winning in the playoffs both years).  Last season, our franchise QB was out for >50% of the season (and when he was in the lineup, he was not himself) -- there are very few teams in the NFL who could pull that off and go .500 or better (I don't care what division you're in -- last time we had a back up QB playing in the AFC South we went 2-14).  This past year, there were a few games we probably should have won, but our team is simply not ready (at several points we were starting 3 rookies on the OL, at other points our best defensive players -- Langford, Davis, Geathers, D Jackson, Mike Adams, Art Jones, Henry Anderson -- were either hurt or suspended, we really had no threat as a pass rusher to speak of on this team or at least not a consistent one, etc. etc. etc.).  Hard to expect to go much better than 8-8 (regardless of division) given what he had to work with.

 

Pagano has gone 49-31 regular season record in his time here, after inheriting the laughing stock of the NFL.  That's a 61.3% winning percentage.... the only active coaches in the NFL with >60 games with higher percentages are Mike Tomlin, Bruce Arians, Mike McCarthy, and Bill Belichek.  Even if you subtracted the first season, he would have a 59% winning percentage which is tied to John Harbaugh and 1 point below Andy Reid.

 

Sure, AFC South hasn't been a solid division for most of his time here, but prior to Pagano our team was 2-14 in the same AFC South (probably lesser quality then).  And there is no doubt about it, Pagano hasn't exactly had a very talented roster (overall) to work with in his time here.

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Back to Mike Florio for a minute...that guy is a thin-skinned little weasel who doesn't even try to hide his hate for the Colts. I've tried to defend the Colts in the comment sections in the past and had every comment deleted. Nothing inflammatory, just counter arguments....I gave up a long time ago until today. He had an article clowning Pagano for calling Luck the "best QB in the NFL." While I don't agree with that statement, what was Pagano supposed to say? And to that point, Luck is ONE of the best IMO, especially given his supporting cast. So I broke protocol and went to the comment section. Mostly garbage, Luck sucks, he's not even top 10, etc etc. Anyone defending him was voted down immensely. And I, still being in a chippy mood, decided to chime in. I changed my username and put up a comment with Luck's stat line from this season (a pretty good one TBH) and said he did it behind a pretty bad o-line. It was deleted within an hour....God Florio and his staff are petty. They must log IP addresses or something, bc I used an entirely different email and innocuous username. Yet he lets east coast Pats fans and others dump all over Irsay (drug addict comments galore) and the Colts. I'm done for good with that garbage fire of a website. 

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10 minutes ago, cmgww said:

Back to Mike Florio for a minute...that guy is a thin-skinned little weasel who doesn't even try to hide his hate for the Colts. I've tried to defend the Colts in the comment sections in the past and had every comment deleted. Nothing inflammatory, just counter arguments....I gave up a long time ago until today. He had an article clowning Pagano for calling Luck the "best QB in the NFL." While I don't agree with that statement, what was Pagano supposed to say? And to that point, Luck is ONE of the best IMO, especially given his supporting cast. So I broke protocol and went to the comment section. Mostly garbage, Luck sucks, he's not even top 10, etc etc. Anyone defending him was voted down immensely. And I, still being in a chippy mood, decided to chime in. I changed my username and put up a comment with Luck's stat line from this season (a pretty good one TBH) and said he did it behind a pretty bad o-line. It was deleted within an hour....God Florio and his staff are petty. They must log IP addresses or something, bc I used an entirely different email and innocuous username. Yet he lets east coast Pats fans and others dump all over Irsay (drug addict comments galore) and the Colts. I'm done for good with that garbage fire of a website. 

He's been particularly merciless toward Irsay since the arrest.  He's a sanctimonious jerk.

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21 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Where do you get that he 'does not have any control over the team'?  It seems to me like the players like playing for Chuck.

 

Also, Chuck probably 'over-achieved' his first 3 years here, taking the team to greater heights than they probably should have reached.  The past 2 years he has probably also over-acheived.... very few teams would go 8-8 with back-ups playing most of the season (like last year) and our talent (especially OL and pass rushing) this year was not all that great (plus we had major health issues all over the place) -- we probably had 6-10 or 7-9 talent on this team, this year.

 

Chuck has still never had a losing season.

 

Chuck did not coach his first year. He has not had a losing season because Andrew Luck has been able to overcome Chuck's coaching. If he did not have Luck we would be Cleveland.

I say that he has lost control of the team because of the repeated mistakes that the team makes that a team that respected and/or feared the coach would not make. Chuck is like a teacher that lets the class so what ever they want. Every student would want to take that class but no one would learn.

 

Multiple examples of this team not being able to perform simple football tasks and those repeated errors being accepted. Our O-Line cannot pick up twists or stunts, Our special teams cannot down a football inside the five yard line, instead we knock the ball into the end zone, our receivers drop way too many passes, which is simply a lack of concentration, Our defenders our out of position, we have punts blocked. This is all from a lack of control.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

 

 

Chuck did not coach his first year. He has not had a losing season because Andrew Luck has been able to overcome Chuck's coaching. If he did not have Luck we would be Cleveland.

I say that he has lost control of the team because of the repeated mistakes that the team makes that a team that respected and/or feared the coach would not make. Chuck is like a teacher that lets the class so what ever they want. Every student would want to take that class but no one would learn.

 

Multiple examples of this team not being able to perform simple football tasks and those repeated errors being accepted. Our O-Line cannot pick up twists or stunts, Our special teams cannot down a football inside the five yard line, instead we knock the ball into the end zone, our receivers drop way too many passes, which is simply a lack of concentration, Our defenders our out of position, we have punts blocked. This is all from a lack of control.

 

 

 

 

 

Pagano took a 40 year old Matt Hasselbeck and a few guys whose names I don't even remember (Charlie Whitehurst and others) for >50% of a season and still didn't have a losing season.

 

Our OLine is young and is still developing and Chuck isn't an O-line coach (Philbin should really be the one making sure they are picking up twists and stunts, etc.), and we had way too many different starting o-line units this season (in part due to injury, which isn't really under Pagano's control and in part due to lack of talent or being very young, which is more Grigson's fault).  Towards the end of the year, with some development from the young guys and a few games of the same unit playing together, we seemed to be doing much better.

 

WR's dropping balls is not the same as Chuck dropping balls.  This is something that needs to be improved upon, but it doesn't mean (in any way) that Chuck has 'lost control of the team.'

 

How many punts did we have blocked this year?  I count 1.  So we don't 'have punts blocked', we had 1 punt blocked.  Pagano isn't the STs coach and having 1 punt blocked (not 'punts') doesn't scream 'Pagano has no control over this team!!!'  We also blocked 1 punt (does that mean the opposition's coach has no control and Pagano has master control??).

 

McAffee was 1st in the league in punting average and 3 in 'net average', with 19 punts inside the 20 and 9 touchbacks (sure it would be nice to have 0 touchbacks and every punt inside the 5, but that doesn't happen on any team).  Does McAffee's stellar punting performance suggest Pagano has control over at least one player on this team?  How about Vinatieri who finished with >87% of field goals made and 100% on extra points? Does him missing a 4 kicks out of 31, all of which were from >40 yards, mean his hall of fame career is over because the coach lost control of him?

 

I think pretty much every player says they love playing for Chuck (suggesting they respect him) and sure Chuck made a few mistakes this year (a couple of not perfect clock management situations, a couple of fakes that didn't work in our favor, etc..), but that doesn't really do anything to suggest he's lost control of our team.

 

Every team has WRs that drop balls from time to time.  Many teams have allowed a punt get blocked (if we let 16 punts get blocked, or even 4 punts get blocked, I might be concerned, but having 1 punt get blocked is not something to freak out about the coach losing control of the team over). 

 

Pagano hasn't been coaching the most talented teams since he's been here.  He still hasn't had a losing season and he has beaten many good teams.  Last year we were >50% of the year with back ups, this year he had a winning record with our starter playing. 

 

There are many things you can knock Pagano for, but saying he's 'lost control of the team' based on the examples you give is not one of them.

 

 

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