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Jay Kirk Baseball Thread since 2017: The 2021 season, Dodgers Repeat?


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Just now, Myles said:

While I don't care for the DH, I do understand why many like it.   I grew up a fan of small ball and prefer a 2-1 game as opposed to a 8-5 game.   I know that scoring is what most people want.  

I don't mind a good 1-0 game. Makes everything more crucial. One wrong decision could cost you the game. Manager sticks with the guy one too many hitters and he blows the game. Decides to take his pitcher out and the reliever can't get out of the inning. Everything is magnified in a game like that. I enjoy an 8-5 game too. I just love to watch baseball. I watch all levels from high school to MLB.

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1 minute ago, landrus13 said:

I don't mind a good 1-0 game. Makes everything more crucial. One wrong decision could cost you the game. Manager sticks with the guy one too many hitters and he blows the game. Decides to take his pitcher out and the reliever can't get out of the inning. Everything is magnified in a game like that. I enjoy an 8-5 game too. I just love to watch baseball. I watch all levels from high school to MLB.

1-0 games are the reason Baseball are losing viewers 

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6 minutes ago, Myles said:

While I don't care for the DH, I do understand why many like it.   I grew up a fan of small ball and prefer a 2-1 game as opposed to a 8-5 game.   I know that scoring is what most people want.  

I think the most positive side from the owners stand point is they can some what protect their investments better . Adam Wainright prime example with the injury he sustained leaving the batters box.

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Another thing I miss from the small ball times is the art of the stolen base.   In 2-1 games, a stolen base is much bigger than it is today.   I can't even tell you who has lead the league in stolen bases the past few years.  

 

My favorite stolen base:

 

Thirty years ago today was the most amazing stolen base ever by a team managed by Whitey Herzog.

The above is a remarkable statement because Herzog loved the stolen base more than any other manager of the last 100 years. In his 2,409 games in the dugout, his teams swiped 3,036 bases. That’s 1.26 steals per game. Among skippers with over 1,600 games managed since 1920, the next best SB/G rate is 0.92 by Chuck Tanner. Drop the games floor to 1,000 and the runner up is Buck Rodgers at 1.03 SB/G. Any way you slice it, Herzog loved the stolen base like no one else.

With the Cardinals in the 1980s, Herzog had his guys run wild as often as possible with great base stealers like Vince Coleman, Ozzie Smith, Lonnie Smith, and Willie McGee. From 1982-88, the Cardinals stole at least 200 bases a year, every year. The 1985 Cardinals stole 314 bases.

But nothing quite matches the one from 30 years ago today, in part because it didn’t involve any of those big-name guys.

On Aug. 22, 1982, the Cardinals battled the Giants in a back-and-forth game. The Cardinals tied it in the bottom of the ninth, sending it into extra innings tied at 4-4. Both teams kept threatening in extras, but neither could score. In the 10th and 11th, a runner reached scoring position in every half-inning, but the game entered the 12th still knotted, 4-4.

The fun came in the bottom of the 12th. After a George Hendrick fly out began the inning, backup catcher Glenn Brummer singled to begin a rally. Immediately after that, McGee singled him to second, and a few minutes later a Smith single loaded the bases.

With two outs, Herzog had an idea. Gary Lavelle, the Giants pitcher, was a lefty. That meant he had his back to third base and so wasn’t watching the runner. And the runner was a backup catcher, so who could even imagine one of those guys trying to steal home?

Well, as it happens, that’s exactly what happened. It was as unlikely and unexpected a move as you could imagine, and that’s why it worked. With the element of surprise as strong as you’ll ever see it, Brummer stole home for the walk-off win in the bottom of the 12th for a 5-4 Cardinals victory over the Giants.

Glenn Brummer would play in 178 games over five years, stealing four bases in a dozen attempts. But they’ll never take this one away from him, the one that won a game exactly 30 years ago today.

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2 hours ago, Jay Kirk said:

I think the most positive side from the owners stand point is they can some what protect their investments better . Adam Wainright prime example with the injury he sustained leaving the batters box.

Another example is Pedro Strop who was just a reliever hitting and pulled a hammy trying to run to first. Really hasnt seem the same since and that was 2018

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4 hours ago, Jay Kirk said:

I hear you I am a purist also , but i believe the DH is here to stay

 

I'm with you; I'm a purist as well. I love National League type baseball and have never liked the DH. 

 

Glad to see you again. :D I saw your PM. Will reply. 

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2 hours ago, Myles said:

Another thing I miss from the small ball times is the art of the stolen base.   In 2-1 games, a stolen base is much bigger than it is today.   I can't even tell you who has lead the league in stolen bases the past few years.  

 

My favorite stolen base:

 

Thirty years ago today was the most amazing stolen base ever by a team managed by Whitey Herzog.

The above is a remarkable statement because Herzog loved the stolen base more than any other manager of the last 100 years. In his 2,409 games in the dugout, his teams swiped 3,036 bases. That’s 1.26 steals per game. Among skippers with over 1,600 games managed since 1920, the next best SB/G rate is 0.92 by Chuck Tanner. Drop the games floor to 1,000 and the runner up is Buck Rodgers at 1.03 SB/G. Any way you slice it, Herzog loved the stolen base like no one else.

With the Cardinals in the 1980s, Herzog had his guys run wild as often as possible with great base stealers like Vince Coleman, Ozzie Smith, Lonnie Smith, and Willie McGee. From 1982-88, the Cardinals stole at least 200 bases a year, every year. The 1985 Cardinals stole 314 bases.

But nothing quite matches the one from 30 years ago today, in part because it didn’t involve any of those big-name guys.

On Aug. 22, 1982, the Cardinals battled the Giants in a back-and-forth game. The Cardinals tied it in the bottom of the ninth, sending it into extra innings tied at 4-4. Both teams kept threatening in extras, but neither could score. In the 10th and 11th, a runner reached scoring position in every half-inning, but the game entered the 12th still knotted, 4-4.

The fun came in the bottom of the 12th. After a George Hendrick fly out began the inning, backup catcher Glenn Brummer singled to begin a rally. Immediately after that, McGee singled him to second, and a few minutes later a Smith single loaded the bases.

With two outs, Herzog had an idea. Gary Lavelle, the Giants pitcher, was a lefty. That meant he had his back to third base and so wasn’t watching the runner. And the runner was a backup catcher, so who could even imagine one of those guys trying to steal home?

Well, as it happens, that’s exactly what happened. It was as unlikely and unexpected a move as you could imagine, and that’s why it worked. With the element of surprise as strong as you’ll ever see it, Brummer stole home for the walk-off win in the bottom of the 12th for a 5-4 Cardinals victory over the Giants.

Glenn Brummer would play in 178 games over five years, stealing four bases in a dozen attempts. But they’ll never take this one away from him, the one that won a game exactly 30 years ago today.

 

I miss all of that. 

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Cards just lost to the Royals so we are still 3 games up on them. 

NL Central standings through August 25th

Cubs 18-11

Cards 10-9 (3 back)

Brewers 13-15 (4.5 back still)

-Cubs just have 31 games left. Every game is critical in a shortened season of 60 games. It is basically like August and September baseball in any other year. Those are the months that determine a lot.

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13 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The disappearance of the SB has more to development and coaching of catchers and middle infielders 

   The Cubs had two last night in a 9-3 win

It hasn't really disappeared, they are just less meaningful in higher scoring games.  .   

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8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Cards just lost to the Royals so we are still 3 games up on them. 

NL Central standings through August 25th

Cubs 18-11

Cards 10-9 (3 back)

Brewers 13-15 (4.5 back still)

-Cubs just have 31 games left. Every game is critical in a shortened season of 60 games. It is basically like August and September baseball in any other year. Those are the months that determine a lot.

Yes the Cards will have a rough road playing all the double headers .

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1 hour ago, Jay Kirk said:

Barry Sears  The Cards are basically a spring training happening during a regular season . Whats your take on what you see so far ?

 

Yes, it's been a challenge for them with so much time off due to the virus and being shut down for a couple of weeks.  All those double-headers will take their toll, I'm afraid.  However, we got a lift getting Molina and DeJong back in the line-up this week.

 

@Jay Kirk I feel the pitching will make or break them.  Waino has pitched pretty well, Kim looked good and Flaherty is clearly our ace.  Need good bullpen performances, for sure.  

 

We should get a playoff spot and then it's a whole new season, so to speak.  I'm just hoping we can stay healthy and we have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, Jay Kirk said:

Barry Sears  The Cards are basically a spring training happening during a regular season . Whats your take on what you see so far ?

 

Yes, it's been a challenge for them with so much time off due to the virus and being shut down for a couple of weeks.  All those double-headers will take their toll, I'm afraid.  However, we got a lift getting Molina and DeJong back in the line-up this week.

 

@Jay Kirk I feel the pitching will make or break them.  Waino has pitched pretty well, Kim looked good and Flaherty is clearly our ace.  Need good bullpen performances, for sure.  

 

We should get a playoff spot and then it's a whole new season, so to speak.  I'm just hoping we can stay healthy and we have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs.

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4 hours ago, Barry Sears said:

 

Yes, it's been a challenge for them with so much time off due to the virus and being shut down for a couple of weeks.  All those double-headers will take their toll, I'm afraid.  However, we got a lift getting Molina and DeJong back in the line-up this week.

 

@Jay Kirk I feel the pitching will make or break them.  Waino has pitched pretty well, Kim looked good and Flaherty is clearly our ace.  Need good bullpen performances, for sure.  

 

We should get a playoff spot and then it's a whole new season, so to speak.  I'm just hoping we can stay healthy and we have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs.

I hear you and agree we will go as far as our pitching will carry us . It will be a strain on the staff , but i think they are deep enough that they may be up to the challenge . I believe Dylan Carlson is a Superstar in the making. The Cards are gonna go to a 6 man rotation through the double header stretch according to the Post Dispatch .

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18 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

I hear you and agree we will go as far as our pitching will carry us . It will be a strain on the staff , but i think they are deep enough that they may be up to the challenge . I believe Dylan Carlson is a Superstar in the making. The Cards are gonna go to a 6 man rotation through the double header stretch according to the Post Dispatch .

 

Yes, I expect big things from Carlson...glad he's getting playing time.

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11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I noticed he wasn't in the lineup. I still think the guys should play all the games in both sports for the fans but what happened to Jacob Blake was awful. This world is in bad shape right now. 

Brother you are right there. Its not looking to get better anytime soon

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wow, I did not see that and I follow most days. Cubs aren't playing today but we let the Tigers take 2 of 3. Almost just as bad.

Cardinals have the Indians over the weekend. Impressive rookie pitcher McKenzie is pitching tomorrow for Cleveland.

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