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Jay Kirk Baseball Thread since 2017: The 2020 season, Nationals Repeat?

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This is a real mess. Apparently Altuve and others were wearing devices. When Altuve hit the series clinching hit, he tried to keep his teammates from taking off his top to not reveal these devices. 

 

If college teams can be stripped of their championships for relatively minute offenses, the Astros should be stripped of that championship.

 

How did MLB learn of this?

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

David Wright I said, see above. He was Mr Met and has the right mentality. 

 

I'd love that but he has no experience. Robin Ventura does but he did pretty poorly with the White Sox.

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11 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

This is a real mess. Apparently Altuve and others were wearing devices. When Altuve hit the series clinching hit, he tried to keep his teammates from taking off his top.

 

If college teams can be stripped of their championships for relatively minute offenses, the Astros should be stripped of that championship.

We all know the only legit champ of the last 4 years are my 2016 103-58 Cubs. No buzzers, no camera's needed, no cheating but thisbragging ric flair GIF, Wooooooooooooooo! To be the best, do it the right way. Eat your vegetables, drink your milk, take your Flintstone Vitamins but don't use camera's. 

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52 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have never heard of any of those guys. I will tell you who they should hire, that is David Wright! He would be perfect for that team.

 

You must know Eduardo Perez. He was on ESPN all the time. 

 

Meulens is a former Yankee, I think. Luis Rojas, I believe, used to be a Met. I cannot recall exactly who he is. 

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1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

You must know Eduardo Perez. He was on ESPN all the time. 

 

Meulens is a former Yankee, I think. Luis Rojas, I believe, used to be a Met. I cannot recall exactly who he is. 

I probably do, if I seen him I would know. That name didn't ring a bell for some reason.

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14 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Who do you have in mind?

 

Good question...there are a few experienced managers available, if they want to get back into the game.  I saw that Bruce Bochy was asked about the Astros job, but he says he's not ready to get back in to managing right now.

 

There's Buck Showalter, Dusty Baker and others with years of experience.  Showalter has managed in NYC, so he would be of interest to the Mets, I would think.  I see that's he's been approached by the Astros.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We all know the only legit champ of the last 4 years are my 2016 103-58 Cubs. No buzzers, no camera's needed, no cheating but thisbragging ric flair GIF, Wooooooooooooooo! To be the best, do it the right way. Eat your vegetables, drink your milk, take your Flintstone Vitamins but don't use camera's. 

 

they just haven't been caught yet!  :)

 

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8 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

 

they just haven't been caught yet!  :)

 

That scheme started in 2017 so no chance that the 2016 Cubs team will be tainted to the point the Astros and Red Sox is. Cubs may of stole signs at times but without camera's, all teams try and do that off of wit. What the Astros and Red Sox did, they took it too another level with technology/camera's. Cheated!snoop dogg dancing GIF by Romy

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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That scheme started in 2017 so no chance that the 2016 Cubs team will be tainted to the point the Astros and Red Sox is. Cubs may of stole signs at times but without camera's, all teams try and do that off of wit. What the Astros and Red Sox did, they took it too another level with technology/camera's. Cheated!snoop dogg dancing GIF by Romy

 

I know..I'm a Cardinals fan so I had to get a dig in for the Cubs fans here.  Stealing signs is a part of the game and everyone does it.  But yes, the level they took it to was out of bounds.

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13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That scheme started in 2017 so no chance that the 2016 Cubs team will be tainted to the point the Astros and Red Sox is. 

 

What is it about Boston-area teams and cheating?

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3 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

 

I know..I'm a Cardinals fan so I had to get a dig in for the Cubs fans here.  Stealing signs is a part of the game and everyone does it.  But yes, the level they took it to was out of bounds.

I know what you were doing lmao . You are right all teams try and do it but off of wit. Astros and Sox took it to a pure cheat level.

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

What is it about Boston-area teams and cheating?

It must be something in their Chowda lmao , could be the water though :funny:

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It must be something in their Chowda lmao , could be the water though :funny:

 

Lol. I could have some good New England clam chowder right about now.

 

Btw, most Mets fans are upset that Beltran stepped down. I think it was the right move. 

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1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

Lol. I could have some good New England clam chowder right about now.

 

Btw, most Mets fans are upset that Beltran stepped down. I think it was the right move. 

Sad situation because Beltran was a great player and well liked. Hard telling who the Mets will hire?

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3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

1 team that should've cheated was the Brewers because without it they will never win a WS excited homer simpson GIF


You know......there was that rumor going around that the Brewers were cheating as well, remember when Yelich dissed Darvish last summer? There’s some somewhat incriminating stuff out there, wonder how many more cheaters shake out after this, hopefully the Cubs didn’t participate in any of that crap!!!! Could get interesting.

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1 hour ago, HOZER said:


You know......there was that rumor going around that the Brewers were cheating as well, remember when Yelich dissed Darvish last summer? There’s some somewhat incriminating stuff out there, wonder how many more cheaters shake out after this, hopefully the Cubs didn’t participate in any of that crap!!!! Could get interesting.

Not Maddon's style, nor is it MVP's, Rizzo's, or Baez style. That scheme started in 2017 with the Camera's/technology/apple watches, etc.. So we are good brother. 

 

Yeah could you imagine Jake Arrieta banging on a trash can when MVP was up or MVP and Rizzo wearing buzzer devices haha k laughing GIF by Rodney Dangerfield, we did it the right way. Astros and Red Sox are not Champs in my eyes. 

 

Jake is probably laughing his rear off at the thought of playing drums on a trash can rocking out will ferrell GIF

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2 best teams of the decade are clearly now the 2016 Cubs and probably the 2012 Giants. Giants won 3 WS and 2012 was their best team. We would take them out though IMO, they had Madbum but we had Jake, Lester, the Professor, and ChapPack. We had too much for them IMO. 

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9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

2 best teams of the decade are clearly now the 2016 Cubs and probably the 2012 Giants. Giants won 3 WS and 2012 was their best team. We would take them out though IMO, they had Madbum but we had Jake, Lester, the Professor, and ChapPack. We had too much for them IMO. 

I don't see it that way.   Sure it was a great season, but outside of Cubs fans, it wasn't "clearly" the best team of the decade.   

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17 hours ago, NFLfan said:

I'm reading that the Mets may go with Luis Rojas, Hensley Muelens, or Eduardo Perez. I know those names but don't know their coaching history. 

 

Is Eduardo Perez the guy who used to work for ESPN, Baseball Tonight?

Yes came up through the Cardinals system , never really made it big as an MLB player. He did have some pop in his bat. Hes a baseball brat so to speak should know the ends and outs.

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16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know what you were doing lmao . You are right all teams try and do it but off of wit. Astros and Sox took it to a pure cheat level.

It must be something in their Chowda lmao , could be the water though :funny:

Yes its no different than watching a pitcher for tipping pitches at that level. When you use tech that's a whole new ball game kinda like deflated footballs:spit:

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12 hours ago, HOZER said:


You know......there was that rumor going around that the Brewers were cheating as well, remember when Yelich dissed Darvish last summer? There’s some somewhat incriminating stuff out there, wonder how many more cheaters shake out after this, hopefully the Cubs didn’t participate in any of that crap!!!! Could get interesting.

Yes Brother Yelich is good but that was unreal , just ask my Cards Lol

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18 hours ago, Barry Sears said:

 

I know a deal for Arenado is still unlikely and the part that scares me most is not what the Cardinals would give up for him, but the fact that he could opt out after the 2021 season.  We could break the bank in exchange for 2 years of him and then he bolts.

 

I think they should just bring up Carlson if they don't re-sign Ozuna so he can compete for a spot on the 26-man roster.  I think this is Fowler's last year, and Matt Carpenter's, too.  We have a good 3B in Memphis who can move up next season in Gorman.  Let's ride out this season with those two aging and overpaid players, then begin a youth movement.

 

Would like to see a younger line-up that can develop together, much like the 1980's Cardinals who had a lot of homegrown talent that I saw come through Louisville with the Redbirds.

Its rumored if deal reached Arenado would have to wave opt out , would be a long term deal. However Im not holding my breath on any of this Lol 

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34 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

Yes came up through the Cardinals system , never really made it big as an MLB player. He did have some pop in his bat. Hes a baseball brat so to speak should know the ends and outs.

 

Thanks, Jay. Very glad to see you. Happy, healthy, and blessed New Year (with some good baseball :D ). 

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7 hours ago, Myles said:

I don't see it that way.   Sure it was a great season, but outside of Cubs fans, it wasn't "clearly" the best team of the decade.   

The team that wins the most WS in a decade is always declared the team of the decade. The team that has the greatest W-L regular season record + wins the WS in the same year in a decade is always seen as the best 1 year team. It has been like that since baseball was invented. Giants won 3 WS this decade so they are the team of the decade, Cubs had the best 1 year season going 103-58 in 2016 to win it all. Pretty clear to me who the best 2 teams were. Red Sox cheated in 2018 so their WS title is tainted. Astros did as well in 2017. You can count them if you want but I don't. I have been following the cheating scandal closely and almost every analyst on the MLB Channel think the 2017 Astros and 2018 Red Sox WS titles should be vacated. The biggest loser in all of this are the Dodgers losing in the WS to both teams. I feel bad for them because they have nothing to show for all those great seasons they had this past decade.

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Derek Jeter and Larry Walker were elected to Cooperstown. Congrats to them. 

 

In other news, Ozuna signed a one-year deal with the Braves.

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Was Larry Walker better than Fred McGriff? I always thought McGriff could be elected to the HoF. At one time in his career, he had the most years of consecutive years with 30 home runs. Was he on the Braves team that won the World Series? If so, he has a World Series win over Walker. 

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4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Was Larry Walker better than Fred McGriff? I always thought McGriff could be elected to the HoF. At one time in his career, he had the most years of consecutive years with 30 home runs. Was he on the Braves team that won the World Series? If so, he has a World Series win over Walker. 

Larry Walker = .313 avg, 383 HR's, 1311 RBI's, 2160 Hits. He won 1 NL MVP and never was on a winning WS team. I do not see this has a HOF resume. I think he was a very good player, not great. I am not sure what McGriff's numbers were.

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Larry Walker = .313 avg, 383 HR's, 1311 RBI's, 2069 Hits. He won 1 NL MVP and never was on a winning WS team. I do not see this has a HOF resume. I am not sure what McGriff's numbers were.

 

Walkers batting average is better than I thought.

 

McGriff:

Batting average:  .284

Hits:  2,490

Home runs:  493

Runs batted in:  1,550

 

He played 18 years. 

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Just now, NFLfan said:

 

Walkers batting average is better than I thought.

 

McGriff:

 

Batting average:  .284

Hits:  2,490

Home runs:  493

Runs batted in:  1,550

That .313 may have got him in. I edited my post, he had 2160 Hits, not 2069. 

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I believe Walker was deserving of getting in.  He provided more than just his batting stats as a player.  He had speed and was a very good outfielder, too.  The fact that he played most of his career in Montreal and Colorado kept him from getting a lot of attention.  He wasn't playing on an east or west coast team with lots of media coverage.

 

I expect McGriff to make it someday.  He played a long time and played the game the right way.  Now, he was not a great defensive player and didn't steal bases, but that man could hit a baseball as hard as anyone I've seen.  He struck fear in opposing pitchers.

 

So long to Qzuna...expected more from him when he came to St. Louis, but I know injuries limited him, especially in 2018.  Wonder if St. Louis now looks at Castellanos as a FA signing, or if they'll bring up one of their young OFers to play in LF?  I read that they are wanting to limit payroll increase for 2020, so I'm guessing they go with Dylan Carlson if he has a good spring training.

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1 hour ago, Barry Sears said:

So long to Qzuna...expected more from him when he came to St. Louis, but I know injuries limited him, especially in 2018.  Wonder if St. Louis now looks at Castellanos as a FA signing, or if they'll bring up one of their young OFers to play in LF?  I read that they are wanting to limit payroll increase for 2020, so I'm guessing they go with Dylan Carlson if he has a good spring training.

 

Couldn't Edit this for some reason.  Fixing typo on Ozuna's name and also realized I forgot about Tommy Edman, who is in line as the starting left fielder in St. Louis, unless he loses that job in Spring Training.  They also have O'Neill in the mix.

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I will take back what I said about Walker. I called him very good, he is actually great but not sure he belongs in the HOF.

 

Scale is:

HOFamer

Great

Very Good

Good

Above Average

Average

Below Average

Bad

-I would put Walker in the Great category but his numbers aren't HOF numbers IMO. Had he won a WS or 2 I would think differently, he was still great though.

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13 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will take back what I said about Walker. I called him very good, he is actually great but not sure he belongs in the HOF.

 

Scale is:

HOFamer

Great

Very Good

Good

Above Average

Average

Below Average

Bad

-I would put Walker in the Great category but his numbers aren't HOF numbers IMO. Had he won a WS or 2 I would think differently, he was still great though.

 

I see your point, but one player doesn't win a WS and not all players play for teams that make it to a WS, or win one.  Ernie Banks come to mind...he never played in a post season game.

 

Found this very interesting and it includes several HOFers (indicated with an *)- https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_most_gamesnops.shtml

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On 1/22/2020 at 8:58 AM, Barry Sears said:

I believe Walker was deserving of getting in.  He provided more than just his batting stats as a player.  He had speed and was a very good outfielder, too.  The fact that he played most of his career in Montreal and Colorado kept him from getting a lot of attention.  He wasn't playing on an east or west coast team with lots of media coverage.

 

I expect McGriff to make it someday.  He played a long time and played the game the right way.  Now, he was not a great defensive player and didn't steal bases, but that man could hit a baseball as hard as anyone I've seen.  He struck fear in opposing pitchers.

 

So long to Qzuna...expected more from him when he came to St. Louis, but I know injuries limited him, especially in 2018.  Wonder if St. Louis now looks at Castellanos as a FA signing, or if they'll bring up one of their young OFers to play in LF?  I read that they are wanting to limit payroll increase for 2020, so I'm guessing they go with Dylan Carlson if he has a good spring training.

Its up for grabs between Carlson ,O'Niell , Lane Thomas Justin Williams and Austin Dean . If Carlson puts up Strong numbers in spring he could break camp. One thing in his advantage is he's a switch hitter. Thomas was good before injury. My bet right now is O'Neill . He has slimmed down just a bit Lol , I always thought he was to bulked up. He has not had significant sustained playing time. But its easy to see if he plays a whole year he would easily eclipse Ozuna on home runs . He has significant speed as well , hes right there with Edmans and Bader. They are not rushing to get Carlson up , however if he puts the numbers up in spring he will be pop from both sides plus skills in outfield and speed. Thomas is going to be a solid MLB player , knows how to hit, has plus skills in outfield . Dean through TB trade has tore up AAA pitching and has power , decent in the field. Question is can he make the grade in MLB ? Williams another from TB system left handed a plus however not a lot of power as far as I see hit 296 last year between AA and AAA Memphis . I think there's plenty to choose from . I too was not thrilled with Ozuna's production. Enter Matt Carpenter , I guess he has been working with none other than Lance Berkman to get his swing back. He was all kinds of jacked up. I like what im hearing. About time he put in some winter work. I think he got to complacent time will tell. Edman can play anywhere and probably will on a regular basis to give people a break. Ravelo could make it as well although a first baseman also capable in the outfield. I do not think they are interested in Castellanos at all because he doesn't measure up defensively , even though he swings a good bat. I would not be surprised if he ends up back in the AL.

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20 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will take back what I said about Walker. I called him very good, he is actually great but not sure he belongs in the HOF.

 

Scale is:

HOFamer

Great

Very Good

Good

Above Average

Average

Below Average

Bad

-I would put Walker in the Great category but his numbers aren't HOF numbers IMO. Had he won a WS or 2 I would think differently, he was still great though.

He had injury problems or his numbers would be even better.

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6 hours ago, Barry Sears said:

 

I see your point, but one player doesn't win a WS and not all players play for teams that make it to a WS, or win one.  Ernie Banks come to mind...he never played in a post season game.

 

Found this very interesting and it includes several HOFers (indicated with an *)- https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_most_gamesnops.shtml

I could be wrong but I don't think Hank Aaron ever got a series win either. Neither did Ted Simmons but he was flat out great.

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I will say they were confident without Ozuna or they would've at least offered a two year contract.

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34 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

I will say they were confident without Ozuna or they would've at least offered a two year contract.

 

I read today that Ozuna turned down some muli-year offers that were less on a per year basis than the 18M he's getting from Atlanta.

 

He was a defensive liability due to his shoulder injury, but he did drive in a lot of runs last season.  Enjoyed your breakdown of the Cardinals LF options above.  I agree they have confidence in one or more of those young guys making the roster and one getting the starting LF job going into the season.

 

Will be an interesting year to watch.  They haven't added much in the off season at the major league level, especially on offense.  Hopefully, their pitching can do well to limit runs allowed so they don't have to score as many. 

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5 hours ago, Jay Kirk said:

I could be wrong but I don't think Hank Aaron ever got a series win either. Neither did Ted Simmons but he was flat out great.

 

I read that Aaron won 1 World Series with the Milwaukee Braves in 1957.

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