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Jay Kirk Baseball Thread since 2017: The 2020 season, Nationals Repeat?

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55 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After what just happened with the Astros getting caught cheating, I will label the 2017 season as no team winning the WS. The league investigated the Astros, they were 100% guilty, both GM and Manager just got fired, and stealing signs is the worse thing a team can do. They knew what was coming pitch wise almost every time. The Dodgers have to be upset about this after losing that WS 4-3.

 

The last 5 WS Champions list should look like this

2015 - Royals

2016 - Cubs

2017 - Vacant, no Champion

2018 - Red Sox

2019 - Nationals

To add to this, I just read the 2018 Red Sox are being investigated for the same thing.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After what just happened with the Astros getting caught cheating, I will label the 2017 season as no team winning the WS. The league investigated the Astros, they were 100% guilty, both GM and Manager just got fired, and stealing signs is the worse thing a team can do. They knew what was coming pitch wise almost every time. The Dodgers have to be upset about this after losing that WS 4-3.

 

The last 5 WS Champions list should look like this

2015 - Royals

2016 - Cubs

2017 - Vacant, no Champion

2018 - Red Sox

2019 - Nationals

The Red Sox are about to get in trouble for the same thing as Astros 

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20 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The Red Sox are about to get in trouble for the same thing as Astros 

Yeah I read a huge article about this on ESPN. Apparently the scheme started in the fall of 2017 where the Astros were stealing signs via by camera. The Red Sox allegedly followed suit when the 2018 playoffs rolled around. At least the Cubs 2016 WS Championship isn't tainted. This started a year later after the Cubs had won it all.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I read a huge article about this on ESPN. Apparently the scheme started in the fall of 2017 where the Astros were stealing signs via by camera. The Red Sox allegedly followed suit when the 2018 playoffs rolled around. At least the Cubs 2016 WS Championship isn't tainted. This started a year later after the Cubs had won it all.

 

The Red Sox manager was a key person in the sign stealing scandal in Houston. Apparently, Beltran had a small role. 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-suspends-astros-gm-jeff-luhnow-manager-aj-hinch-for-a-year-in-sign-stealing-scandal-190918702.html
 

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Rob Manfred the commissioner of Baseball and Baseball as a whole is heavily investigating the Red Sox now. The league is expected to punish the Red Sox as bad if not worse as they did the Astros. If the Red Sox are found guilty then the WS Champions list over the last 5 seasons should look like this:

True WS Champions in the last 5 seasons

2015 - Royals

2016 - Cubs

2017 - Vacant, no Champion

2018 - Vacant, no Champion

2019 - Nationals

-What the 2017 Astros were found guilty of during their playoff run is the worse possible thing any team can be guilty of. Stealing signs via camera. Their GM and Manager is getting suspended for the entire 2020 season and the Astros lose their 1st round picks in 2020 and 2021. The Astros actually went ahead and fired the GM and Manager. The 2018 Red Sox are accused of doing the same thing during their playoff run. This scheme started in the fall of 2017. So the 2016 Cubs are in the clear I am proud to say and as of now the Nationals are not being accused of any wrong doing during their 2019 playoff run.

 

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I think the Astros got off fairly easily on this.  GM's and coaches can be replaced.   The 4 draft picks will hurt down the road.   Usually draft picks in baseball don't see the major leagues for years.  

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Take away the Astros WS title. Same thing for Red Sox if they are found guilty. While we're at it, take away a few Patriots titles too.

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I applaud the Commissioner for his tenacity and handing down these serious punishments.

 

As @coltsva mentioned, this type of thing has happened in the NFL, but their commissioner seems to look away, because all he really sees are $$$$.

 

I agree those two championships should be vacated.  You really can't award them to the Dodgers, though.  I don't think you can automatically assume the outcome would have been different, although the cheating probably did have an affect on the games.  There are too many other factors involved in determining the outcome of a game.

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8 hours ago, Myles said:

I think the Astros got off fairly easily on this.  GM's and coaches can be replaced.   The 4 draft picks will hurt down the road.   Usually draft picks in baseball don't see the major leagues for years.  

They should have their Championship vacated but I don't think the league will go that far with it. Almost everyone will look at their Championship as tainted now anyway. 

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Red Sox fire manager Alex Cora. They already see the writing on the wall. The Commish about to the lay the hammer down on those cheating fools too.

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Quite a week so far...Astros fire GM and Manager, then Cora and Red Sox part ways.  Donaldson signs with the Twins and their potent offense just got better!

 

There are times when the off-season is more exciting than the regular season :)

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7 hours ago, Barry Sears said:

Quite a week so far...Astros fire GM and Manager, then Cora and Red Sox part ways.  Donaldson signs with the Twins and their potent offense just got better!

 

There are times when the off-season is more exciting than the regular season :)

 

I wonder if Beltran will be punished in any way. He is the new manager of the Mets. 

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1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

I wonder if Beltran will be punished in any way. He is the new manager of the Mets. 

No. The Commish came out and said no ex-players from the 2017 Astros or 2018 Red Sox will be punished. It is just too hard to determine who was and wasn't involved he said. So only the GM's and managers of those teams will be punished. 

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3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No. The Commish came out and said no ex-players from the 2017 Astros or 2018 Red Sox will be punished. It is just too hard to determine who was and wasn't involved he said. So only the GM's and managers of those teams will be punished. 

 

I read that the Mets are considering how to punish Beltran.

 

 https://sports.yahoo.com/new-york-mets-considering-whether-to-keep-carlos-beltran-amid-sign-stealing-scandal-015401589.html

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1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

Ok, that is different. As far as I know he isn't in trouble with the league though. Mets handeling this is separate. Thanks for the info. This whole thing is interesting.

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10 hours ago, Barry Sears said:

There are times when the off-season is more exciting than the regular season :)


Unless you’re a Cubs fan. :sleepy:

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3 minutes ago, HOZER said:


Unless you’re a Cubs fan. :sleepy:

Don't jinx it. We might wake up tomorrow and see that MVP or Wilson Contreras got traded :funny:. Sometimes quiet is good.

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1 hour ago, HOZER said:


Unless you’re a Cubs fan. :sleepy:

 

Sometimes no news is better. 

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Don't jinx it. We might wake up tomorrow and see that MVP or Wilson Contreras got traded :funny:. Sometimes quiet is good.

 

Exactly. (I did not see this before replying to Hozer above.) 

 

I wonder what Astros fans Red Sox fans must be thinking. 

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3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Exactly. (I did not see this before replying to Hozer above.) 

 

I wonder what Astros fans Red Sox fans must be thinking. 

They know deep down their Championships are tainted. I would feel sick if I was a fan of them.

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8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They know deep down their Championships are tainted. I would feel sick if I was a fan of them.

I don't think they feel that bad about it.  Not from what I have seen on Facebook from Astro fans I know.   Their championships still count.   i think the league could have made a major point by vacating the World Series win.  

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I'm hoping the Cardinals could land Arenado from the Rockies.  If not, I don't like their dept in the outfield.   I know he plays 3rd, but Edman would provide good depth in the outfield if he's not at 3rd.   

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On 1/15/2020 at 11:44 AM, Barry Sears said:

Quite a week so far...Astros fire GM and Manager, then Cora and Red Sox part ways.  Donaldson signs with the Twins and their potent offense just got better!

 

There are times when the off-season is more exciting than the regular season :)

Yes Barry the Twins are worth keeping an eye on. Major pop to that line up, the intangible that Donaldson brings is tenacity . It rubbed off on Atlanta lets see what happens up there.

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4 hours ago, Myles said:

I'm hoping the Cardinals could land Arenado from the Rockies.  If not, I don't like their dept in the outfield.   I know he plays 3rd, but Edman would provide good depth in the outfield if he's not at 3rd.   

I do like their depth in the outfield . Carlson is MLB ready . Lane Thomas might have been the best they had before the broken bone put him out. If they don't sign Ozuna or Castenellos look for Oneil Thomas and Carlson to battle it out .  I like this move https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/rays-cardinals-trade  to go with this https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/kwang-hyun-kim-has-suitor-in-cardinals  Long Term I hope the kid lefty doesn't get wrapped in any deal with the Rockies . If they make the move Hudson although I like him is more expendable long term. Yes would love to see Ardy at the hot corner but right now I believe reporters just need something to talk about. Will be somewhat surprised if he doesn't remain a Rocky.

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4 hours ago, Myles said:

I'm hoping the Cardinals could land Arenado from the Rockies.  If not, I don't like their dept in the outfield.   I know he plays 3rd, but Edman would provide good depth in the outfield if he's not at 3rd.   

I do agree Edman can play anywhere and it doesn't effect his hitting . Ardy would free him to the Outfield if needed there . Otherwise see him as a super sub all over the infield keeping players fresh and rested.

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1 hour ago, Jay Kirk said:

I do agree Edman can play anywhere and it doesn't effect his hitting . Ardy would free him to the Outfield if needed there . Otherwise see him as a super sub all over the infield keeping players fresh and rested.

 

I know a deal for Arenado is still unlikely and the part that scares me most is not what the Cardinals would give up for him, but the fact that he could opt out after the 2021 season.  We could break the bank in exchange for 2 years of him and then he bolts.

 

I think they should just bring up Carlson if they don't re-sign Ozuna so he can compete for a spot on the 26-man roster.  I think this is Fowler's last year, and Matt Carpenter's, too.  We have a good 3B in Memphis who can move up next season in Gorman.  Let's ride out this season with those two aging and overpaid players, then begin a youth movement.

 

Would like to see a younger line-up that can develop together, much like the 1980's Cardinals who had a lot of homegrown talent that I saw come through Louisville with the Redbirds.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I just heard about that. I guess his guilt was too much to handle.

 

I give him credit for getting in front of this and stepping down.  He was a great player and I know there would be questions about this going into the season...especially from the NY media.

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1 minute ago, Barry Sears said:

 

I give him credit for getting in front of this and stepping down.  He was a great player and I know there would be questions about this going into the season...especially from the NY media.

I agree. He was a great player and this is a smart move. The NY media was ready to eat him alive.

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26 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

 

I read this earlier. I have to go check out the Mets site to see how other fans are taking this. I actually did not like the hire. Good to great players seem to rarely make good managers/head coaches.

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I'm reading that the Mets may go with Luis Rojas, Hensley Muelens, or Eduardo Perez. I know those names but don't know their coaching history. 

 

Is Eduardo Perez the guy who used to work for ESPN, Baseball Tonight?

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9 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

I'm reading that the Mets may go with Luis Rojas, Hensley Muelens, or Eduardo Perez. I know those names but don't know their coaching history. 

 

Is Eduardo Perez the guy who used to work for ESPN, Baseball Tonight?

 

Yes, that's the same Perez...son of Tony Perez.

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2 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

 

Yes, that's the same Perez...son of Tony Perez.

 

Ok. Thank you. I might prefer him over the others. 

 

I want Joe McEwing. He used to be a Cardinals player as well as a Met. He was one of the most popular players with the fans when he was a Met.

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Fans are comparing Beltran to Belichick. He lasted longer than BB did as Jets head coach. And they both cheated. 

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25 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

I'm reading that the Mets may go with Luis Rojas, Hensley Muelens, or Eduardo Perez. I know those names but don't know their coaching history. 

 

Is Eduardo Perez the guy who used to work for ESPN, Baseball Tonight?

I have never heard of any of those guys. I will tell you who they should hire, that is David Wright! He would be perfect for that team.

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7 hours ago, Myles said:

I don't think they feel that bad about it.  Not from what I have seen on Facebook from Astro fans I know.   Their championships still count.   i think the league could have made a major point by vacating the World Series win.  

They can sugarcoat it all they want, anyone that is not an Astros fan looks at it as tainted. I do and I don't count it, eventhough I am a nobody I guarantee you 99% of people would agree with me. I would say the same thing if the Cubs did what they did. The big loser in all of this is the Dodgers and their fans, they very well could've won it all had they not been cheated. This cheating was proven 100% without a doubt.

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Eduardo Perez is knowledgeable, but I don't think he's ever managed at any level.  I recall he did some coaching at the major league level.  He certainly doesn't belong on TV...he knows the game, but I find it hard to understand him sometimes.  Not his fault, but it is what it is.

 

I think the Mets need to hire someone with a lot of experience that can handle the media there, too.  They have some very good talent, but need someone who can translate that into wins.

 

They're also in a very tough division, so whoever gets the job has their work cut out for them.

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26 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

Eduardo Perez is knowledgeable, but I don't think he's ever managed at any level.  I recall he did some coaching at the major league level.  He certainly doesn't belong on TV...he knows the game, but I find it hard to understand him sometimes.  Not his fault, but it is what it is.

 

I think the Mets need to hire someone with a lot of experience that can handle the media there, too.  They have some very good talent, but need someone who can translate that into wins.

 

They're also in a very tough division, so whoever gets the job has their work cut out for them.

 

Who do you have in mind?

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