What Would You Do?

[shecolt]

Reading through numerous threads, I feel that some fans are having a hard time looking at this situation from a business standpoint. Perhaps, some don’t view it as a business or don’t want to view it as a business; but I do.

That doesn’t mean that I don’t love Peyton. The one person I have always wanted to meet and will always hope to meet is Peyton. If I could go back in time and prevent that injury from happening, I would.

Also, I have said time and time again that I don’t understand football nearly as well as the majority of you on this forum. So please feel free to tell my why I may be wrong in making the comparison I am about to present.

In fact, I would appreciate any such input (especially from those who disagree with viewing this from a business perspective) because it would help me understand and relate.

So here is a “What Would You Do?”.

You own a business. A business that has become very successful largely due to the contributions of one stellar employee. An employee who is loved by many and who has also done much to give back to the community.

However, this employee is injured. You have tried to have others fill his shoes during his absence, but your once successful business has suffered a very bad year due largely in part to his absence and the inability to find someone to successfully replace him during his absence.

Now you are faced with a decision. You want your business to become successful again; but this stellar employee is not only near retirement, you also don’t know if he will ever be able to return to his job and if so, how successfully he can carry out his duties.

You have just interviewed two young men whom you strongly feel could do this job. Yes, you know there will be some growing curves; but you think that given time one of these two men will become a good replacement for that stellar employee.

Also, if you don’t hire one of these young men, you know that there are others who would jump at the chance to do so because the qualities that these young men possess is not something that is easy to find.

Of course, you would love to hire one of them while still retaining the injured employee. But, you know that if you do that; you would not be able to afford to pay some of the other employees who are also integral to your company’s success.

So,what would you do?

[Peyton and Eli fan]

I would've won a 3rd game!

[Coltssouth]

To me it's simple. Wait until the march 8th evaluation on how he is health-wise. If he can't play, move on. If he can, stay with a winner.

[chad72]

I would keep my stellar employee on long term disability, paying him 60% and not 100% thus allowing me the choice to hire his replacement and see if it works out.

There is not such a choice in the NFL, is there?

[Scipio]

Work behind the scenes on an agreement. Cut Manning before Mar 8th, taking the 10+ million cap hit for 2012, then re-sign him cheap, so the additional cap his is around 5m. The remainder of the contract would be incentive based, depending on his performance. So if we take a QB in the 1st round we will be looking at a 20-22m cap hit..... not awesome but doable, and will not cripple us down the road that his current contract will do.

I do not think Manning is concerned about $ at this point, so this is all feasible.

[UndecidedFrog]

You hire the best potential of the 2 young men to replace your star who cannot work anymore.

You wish your star the best, and honor him by throwing him a big retirement party, or, alternatively, you hire the star to work for your company in a consulting capacity (if he is so inclined) to advise the new young employee on the learning curve.

You do what is in the best interest of the business.

[Coffeedrinker]

I would keep my stellar employee on long term disability, paying him 60% and not 100% thus allowing me the choice to hire his replacement and see if it works out.

There is not such a choice in the NFL, is there?

LOL. I wonder if Manning has AFLAC.

[presto123]

To me it's simple. Wait until the march 8th evaluation on how he is health-wise. If he can't play, move on. If he can, stay with a winner.

It really is that simple. If he's not healthy on March 8 you can't play a guessing game and in the meantime handicap the franchise and future on a wish and a prayer. Here's hoping Peyton is healthy by March 8.

[Blue Horseshoe]

OK, so somebody else hires the two young men. There will be others available next year.

[presto123]

OK, so others hire the two young men. There will be others available next year.

Others who are projected best QB prospect since Elway? Manning's and Elway's don't come around too darn often.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Others who are projected best QB prospect since Elway? Manning's and Elway's don't come around too darn often.

I'm sorry but I have seen nothing which makes me believe that projection. In fact, considering the sorry state of Pac-10 pass defenses I feel fairly confident in saying it is just media hype. The man may be a fine quarterback and I hope he has a good career but I do not believe this "once in a lifetime" stuff at all.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Seems to be a lot of QB talent out there. I think Luck will be good, but I'm not sold on the once in a lifetime bit yet either.

[shecolt]

I would've won a 3rd game!

Please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't winning a third game just have put the Colts into the position of the #2 draft pick?

In which case, they would still have been able to draft which ever QB (Luck or Griffin) hadn't already been drafted.

[shecolt]

OK, so somebody else hires the two young men. There will be others available next year.

True, but there are no guarantees that the Colts will be in the position to draft one of them or how much they would have to give up to do so.

So, are you saying that the Colts should not draft a QB this year? That they should just stick with Peyton (whether healthy or not) and just see how the upcoming season unfolds?

[WSO]

I'm sorry but I have seen nothing which makes me believe that projection. In fact, considering the sorry state of Pac-10 pass defenses I feel fairly confident in saying it is just media hype. The man may be a fine quarterback and I hope he has a good career but I do not believe this "once in a lifetime" stuff at all.

Good Lord, Luck is not a #1 overall pick because of his stats or what he did at Stanford in the W/L column or anything. He is #1 because he has the complete package, mechanics, accuracy, arm strength, intelligence, athleticism, character and so on. If you want to debate any of those, I'm all for it. In fact his college stats are not that great at all. They are above average.

[WSO]

True, but there are no guarantees that the Colts will be in the position to draft one of them or how much they would have to give up to do so.

So, are you saying that the Colts should not draft a QB this year? That they should just stick with Peyton (whether healthy or not) and just see how the upcoming season unfolds?

I believe that is the minority on this forum. It's not a business decision in those fans eyes. Its basically we are going to have Peyton Manning back no matter what. Forget the other 50+ guys on the team or the top tier QB's in the draft. We must have Manning.

[Dustin]

considering the sorry state of Pac-10 pass defenses I feel fairly confident in saying it is just media hype.

What does his numbers have to do with his projections? His talent is based of his intangibles, accuracy, mobility, arm strength, pocket awareness, IQ, ect.....

He's not being projected as the best College QB in the last 15 years because he threw for 3500 yards and 30+ TD's.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't winning a third game just have put the Colts into the position of the #2 draft pick?

In which case, they would still have been able to draft which ever QB (Luck or Griffin) hadn't already been drafted.

This is all about Luck.

[shecolt]

This is all about Luck.

That's the problem. I don't want this to be all about Luck which is why I deliberately worded my post to read that there were two young men being interviewed. However, I don't know how to keep Luck out of the conversation other than using my mod powers to delete such posts and it wouldn't be fair of me to do that.

I want this thread to be more about Peyton and what others would do if they were in Irsay's shoes. If it helps, pretend that this was last year and we were talking about Newton. Or, that it is next year and we are talking about Barkley.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

If the Colts had the #2 pick, everyone would be rooting for Peyton to return instead of rooting for him to retire.

[UndecidedFrog]

If the Colts had the #2 pick, everyone would be rooting for Peyton to return instead of rooting for him to retire.

I disagree.

Regardless of where the Colts' first round pick is, I think all fans want Peyton to be healthy again.

However, not all of us think Peyton can get healthy enough to play football at the level he was playing prior to his injury, by March 8 when the option bonus of $28MM is due.

Given Peyton's age, his injury and subsequent neck surgeries, the uncertainty of Peyton's health on March 8, the new FO, the new coaching staff, the rebuilding philosophy that has been announced, it seems the prudent course for the team is to release Peyton to avoid paying the $28MM option bonus (and its associated cap consequences), and to draft the best potential future franchise QB it can in the first round of the upcoming draft.

[Rich Cannon]

Very good post op, I think the sentiments in all of us want Peyton to return to the colts but business is business. If he doesn't return and he is able to play I just hope he goes to the NFC and not AFC team

[Coltsman1788]

I disagree.

Regardless of where the Colts' first round pick is, I think all fans want Peyton to be healthy again.

However, not all of us think Peyton can get healthy enough to play football at the level he was playing prior to his injury, by March 8 when the option bonus of $28MM is due.

Given Peyton's age, his injury and subsequent neck surgeries, the uncertainty of Peyton's health on March 8, the new FO, the new coaching staff, the rebuilding philosophy that has been announced, it seems the prudent course for the team is to release Peyton to avoid paying the $28MM option bonus (and its associated cap consequences), and to draft the best potential future franchise QB it can in the first round of the upcoming draft.

Well said.

[SilentHill]

I would've won a 3rd game!

That would have been great, so when Manning retires that leaves us with????? perrenial 6-10 seasons IMHO

[SilentHill]

If the Colts had the #2 pick, everyone would be rooting for Peyton to return instead of rooting for him to retire.

No way! You are misguided.

Does anyone really think we don't want Manning under center if he's healthy? I mean for me If he isn;t at least 95% then I think we have to part ways, but 95% or better and I want him on our team. No way do I want to see him win a SB on another team.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

No way! You are misguided.

Does anyone really think we don't want Manning under center if he's healthy? I mean for me If he isn;t at least 95% then I think we have to part ways, but 95% or better and I want him on our team. No way do I want to see him win a SB on another team.

you haven't been reading too much around here!

[SilentHill]

you haven't been reading too much around here!

Alright I'll give you that, but I'll admit I am a colts fan cirst and a Manning fan 2nd. That being said, I still think it is in the best interest for the team to have Manning under center if healthy, regardless of cap hit, if they both wanted to make it happen a new contract could happen.

[coltsblue1844]

Do i think that the Colts will cut Peyton by/before March 8 if he isnt "healthy" yet? YES

Do i also think that if Peyton regains his form/arm strength etc by June/July that we would resign him for a more cap friendly deal, so that he can finish his career with the Colts? YES

Do i also think that Peyton would agree to the above mentioned scenario? YES

Do i also think that Irsay is telling the truth when he said that "if healthy" that Peyton would be our guy? YES

Do i also think that Peyton and Irsay and Polian etc are telling the truth when they say that they "just dont know yet" if Peyton will be able to play again? YES

Do i also think that Peyton is busting his butt with plans to attempt a comeback next season? YES

To answer your original question, if Peyton is not healthy by March 8, i would cut him rather than gamble on handcuffing the franchise vs the salary cap...but i would work out an agreement with him that if he's ready to give it a go by the start of training camp, i would be glad to let him give it a shot and if he's able to regain his form/arm strength by then, i would agree to bring him back at a reduced salary with lots of incentives that are performance based.

I would also draft Andrew Luck #1 without thinking twice about it. We will need a back up QB and a future starter even IF Peyton is able to play...why not take the best one available? Either Peyton is able to come back and retire on his own terms (under a smaller contract) and Luck can learn from watching him at the same time, or worst case scenario, after giving it a shot, he decides he just cant do it and Luck is our starter next season.

We CAN afford both Luck and Manning...what we CANT afford is to gamble by picking up the option if Peyton isnt healthy by March 8...if we did that and he couldnt play or had to retire early, it would kill our salary cap...but if we cut him and then later work out a new cap friendly deal that has an injury/retirement clause included, we most certainly could afford both.

[SilentHill]

Do i think that the Colts will cut Peyton by/before March 8 if he isnt "healthy" yet? YES

Do i also think that if Peyton regains his form/arm strength etc by June/July that we would resign him for a more cap friendly deal, so that he can finish his career with the Colts? YES

Do i also think that Peyton would agree to the above mentioned scenario? YES

Do i also think that Irsay is telling the truth when he said that "if healthy" that Peyton would be our guy? YES

Do i also think that Peyton and Irsay and Polian etc are telling the truth when they say that they "just dont know yet" if Peyton will be able to play again? YES

Do i also think that Peyton is busting his butt with plans to attempt a comeback next season? YES

To answer your original question, if Peyton is not healthy by March 8, i would cut him rather than gamble on handcuffing the franchise vs the salary cap...but i would work out an agreement with him that if he's ready to give it a go by the start of training camp, i would be glad to let him give it a shot and if he's able to regain his form/arm strength by then, i would agree to bring him back at a reduced salary with lots of incentives that are performance based.

I would also draft Andrew Luck #1 without thinking twice about it. We will need a back up QB and a future starter even IF Peyton is able to play...why not take the best one available? Either Peyton is able to come back and retire on his own terms (under a smaller contract) and Luck can learn from watching him at the same time, or worst case scenario, after giving it a shot, he decides he just cant do it and Luck is our starter next season.

We CAN afford both Luck and Manning...what we CANT afford is to gamble by picking up the option if Peyton isnt healthy by March 8...if we did that and he couldnt play or had to retire early, it would kill our salary cap...but if we cut him and then later work out a new cap friendly deal that has an injury/retirement clause included, we most certainly could afford both.

When did Irsay say he would roll with Manning if healthy? Just curious because I was thinking about this the other day.

[coltsblue1844]

When did Irsay say he would roll with Manning if healthy? Just curious because I was thinking about this the other day.

Every time anyone has asked him, even on Thursday Night Football (vs texans) he has said that it is not about money etc, it is all about if Peyton is healthy...he's said numerous times that he sees no problem with Manning and Luck on the same team...

But the fact that everytime he's asked, he says how loyal he is to Peyton and that it all just depends on health, is a pretty good indicator...i'm at work, so i cant actually google to find exact quotes.

In my opinion, the media can make stories easier speculating on where Peyton may play if we cut him, than if they were to say that he would likely play here again.

[a06cc]

For me at a business and a moral standpoint I keep Peyton. He has put his neck, put money in my pocket, and is willing to put his career on the line. I understand if Jim Irsay is looking at the long term health. Peyton should be looking at the long term as well. If the doctor telling Peyton to not risk his neck then we draft Andrew. I'd keep Peyton regardless of his health. You don't do "family" like that. Colts blue blood is thicker than water! It wouldn't be hard to draft Luck and keep Peyton. I understand Andrew would not like to either have the asterisk next to his name stating "I had Peyton Manning help me" but I don't think that would happen. Every man has to make a legacy for himself. Or Luck may want to start right away so he'll pass us up. Whatever happens I hope we have the chance to get Luck and still keep the G.O.A.T Peyton Manning! Or get some help on defense!

[a06cc]

Yes everyone even on twitter Jim Irsay has stated that this is clearly based on long term health. He doesn't want to be blame if something happenes to Peyton Manning's neck that could not only end his career but impair his life. There is all types of herbs and Acetyl L-Carnitine that would help regenerate his nerve.

[Jaric]

This is all about Luck.

For the upteenth time, this has nothing to do with Andrew Luck. If we pick up the option, and he can't play, and we have to cut him, all his bonuses and what nots are due immediately and we have about 40 million dollars in dead cap space.

Dead. Cap. Space.

That can't happen.

[doogansquest]

Contrary to my thoughts several months ago, I would hire one of the new prospects, and retain the veteran. The veteran wins, and has done everything necessary to rehab. Most of the retirement/cut talk has been rumor-mongering among the less-informed: most of whom don't even work anywhere near my business. Money is no object when it comes to obtaining talent. :manning:

[gacker65]

In business, you do not get rid of a great employee for any new person. Bad business decision and a good way to drive your business into the ground. The best scenerio would to keep your great employee in some compassity to mentor your new employee or you look for a proven employee in another company. Since this other option of looking for a proven employee in another company (using the business scenerio), has not been explored, this has become all about 1 unproven, fresh out of college player who may or may not perform well.

sorry for enough misspellings

[UndecidedFrog]

In business, you do not get rid of a great employee for any new person. Bad business decision and a good way to drive your business into the ground. The best scenerio would to keep your great employee in some compassity to mentor your new employee or you look for a proven employee in another company. Since this other option of looking for a proven employee in another company (using the business scenerio), has not been explored, this has become all about 1 unproven, fresh out of college player who may or may not perform well.

sorry for enough misspellings

In a business you do not pay an employee if he cannot work. You fire him, or retire him. Then you hire another employee who can work. You do not give large bonuses for these employees who cannot work.

A good way to destroy your business is to continue to employ people who cannot work, and then give them large bonuses.

[JoKeR]

If the Colts had the #2 pick, everyone would be rooting for Peyton to return instead of rooting for him to retire.

That's where your a bit unreasonable. Please don't take it the wrong way. I really doubt anyone here would kick a healthy Manning to the curb. Fans, like Irsay, like any other football mind, realize the Colts need a young QB now.

[turner46992]

If he is healthy he stays in indy, if he is not healthy yet he will retire thats what I think, Id hate to see him go if he was healthy....and I think Irsay would hate it to

[gacker65]

In a business you do not pay an employee if he cannot work. You fire him, or retire him. Then you hire another employee who can work. You do not give large bonuses for these employees who cannot work.

A good way to destroy your business is to continue to employ people who cannot work, and then give them large bonuses.

Would you not want your star employee to be in the company in some job to help mentor your new employee. If you get rid of a valuable asset that could help your company just to make yourself feel better, then you should not be in business. There are companies out ther that actually hire retired employees to mentor young/ new employees in there business. This system has been working for awhile. So to the point, if the Colts want to get rid of Peyton, do it on March 8th and quite messing around, health aside. Draft Luck and bring Peyton back as QB coach or consultant to mentor Luck. Again another option is look for proven veteran QB and bring him in through free agency. Unfortunately the Defense is not going to wait for an Offensive rebuild.

[UndecidedFrog]

Would you not want your star employee to be in the company in some job to help mentor your new employee. If you get rid of a valuable asset that could help your company just to make yourself feel better, then you should not be in business. There are companies out ther that actually hire retired employees to mentor young/ new employees in there business. This system has been working for awhile. So to the point, if the Colts want to get rid of Peyton, do it on March 8th and quite messing around, health aside. Draft Luck and bring Peyton back as QB coach or consultant to mentor Luck. Again another option is look for proven veteran QB and bring him in through free agency. Unfortunately the Defense is not going to wait for an Offensive rebuild.

Yep, if my star employee can no longer physically perform his job, I will find him another job that does not require him to use his physicality. A consulting job to help his replacement would be ideal. But in no way would I pay him the same rate as if he was doing the physical work.