Why would you not draft oline in the first round?

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Personally I don't get this. I mean I understand the win now mentality and all but that hasn't gotten us anywhere good for the last 5 years. 

 

The cowboys went to the oline and look at what a rookie QB is doing, who probably isn't as good as his oline suggests. 

 

The colts need need to keep making the not so sexy pick. Castanzo isn't LT material. He need shifted to RG. 

 

Do do you it's know of any LTs coming out of college that would be better? 

[WarGhost21]

I wouldn't take a O-linemen in the first because there aren't any good Tackles coming out this year. I'd much rather get any player on defense than reach for a project OT in the first

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

37 minutes ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

Personally I don't get this. I mean I understand the win now mentality and all but that hasn't gotten us anywhere good for the last 5 years. 

 

The cowboys went to the oline and look at what a rookie QB is doing, who probably isn't as good as his oline suggests. 

 

The colts need need to keep making the not so sexy pick. Castanzo isn't LT material. He need shifted to RG. 

 

Do do you it's know of any LTs coming out of college that would be better? 

 

I know this is a long shot, but what about any FA lineman? 

[BCoop]

I believe Cam Robinson is the best tackle coming out, correct? Most of what I've read on him looks like he will end up on the right side. I think it's a better year for guards than tackles. 

[BProland85]

Normally I'd agree with loading up on 1st round OL. But Grigson's track record outside of Kelly on early round OL picks have not been great. Plus where the Colts will be drafting, there really isn't any great OL prospects there. I don't think much of Cam Robinson from Alabama. 

 

Indy needs to sign a proven road grading RG who is still young. Kevin Zeitler from the bengals would be perfect. The rest of the OL is set with Costanzo, Mewhort, Kelly, and Haeg. 

[stitches]

O-lineman to watch - Garett Bolles from Utah. He's a mean MFer... and he probably could be had in the 2nd-3d round...

 

 

 

[PeterBowman]

Unless he's a Ryan Kelly type plug and play player, it's hard to see drafting OL in the first.

 

I'm personally on the linebacker bandwagon but I've seen Dalvin Cook mocked to the Colts A LOT lately.

[SP_21]

The Colts almost have to draft another lineman with a high pick this year. If Cam Robinson falls to the second or if there is a great guard available we need to take him. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

The Colts don't need or want to draft an o-lineman in the first round for a variety of reasons.

 

1.    The class of o-lineman is not good.     A terrible class for tackles (that's, in part, why we grabbed Clark last year)    and the guards and centers are more 2nd and 3rd round quality than first.

 

2.   You can find a decent lineman later in the draft.   

 

3.    The lineman we have are young and will improve and then there's Clark, who played a bit Sunday when Reitz went out for a bit.

 

4.    We have other areas of need far more pressing than o-line.    The defense is a mess.    The o-line is improving.     Slowly,  too slowly for my taste,  but it IS improving.      It will be better next year.

 

5.   Focus too much on one position group and you risk letting other groups get worse than you want.    We need huge help everywhere on defense.       It's not only time for the defense,  it's well past due time.

 

This is why you don't go o-line in the 1st round.

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, PeterBowman said:

Unless he's a Ryan Kelly type plug and play player, it's hard to see drafting OL in the first.

 

I'm personally on the linebacker bandwagon but I've seen Dalvin Cook mocked to the Colts A LOT lately.

 

Just because Cook is being mocked to the Colts,  that doesn't mean it's going to happen.    These mocks are based on guesses.     They're not being mocked because these guys have sources telling them we want to draft Cook.         People doing the mocks see we need a running back, and they know this is a great class of backs, so they project Cook to us.      But if it indeed happens,  it's not because anyone had an inside source.     It's just a good educated guess.

 

Seriously......     don't read too much into the mocks.....    

 

[jameszeigler834]

7 hours ago, BCoop said:

I believe Cam Robinson is the best tackle coming out, correct? Most of what I've read on him looks like he will end up on the right side. I think it's a better year for guards than tackles. 

We need a right guard.

[SilentHill]

I truly believe LeRaven Clark will be the LT of the future here. Getting him reps right now is key.

[PeterBowman]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Just because Cook is being mocked to the Colts,  that doesn't mean it's going to happen.    These mocks are based on guesses.     They're not being mocked because these guys have sources telling them we want to draft Cook.         People doing the mocks see we need a running back, and they know this is a great class of backs, so they project Cook to us.      But if it indeed happens,  it's not because anyone had an inside source.     It's just a good educated guess.

 

Seriously......     don't read too much into the mocks.....    

 

oh I don't read into mocks, though it's fun to bring into discussions.......but I find it funny that with all the help the D needs that people are mocking him to the Colts.....

 

I know the season's not done but I love talking about the draft.

[PeterBowman]

2 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I truly believe LeRaven Clark will be the LT of the future here. Getting him reps right now is key.

 

2 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I truly believe LeRaven Clark will be the LT of the future here. Getting him reps right now is key.

from what I've read he had some decent blocks in the last game.

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I truly believe LeRaven Clark will be the LT of the future here. Getting him reps right now is key.

Are there super raw OTs drafted on potential that couldn't get any reps as rookies that became successful long-term tackles in the league? This is a genuine question, because I don't know the answer - how often does this happen? Draft extremely raw O-line prospect with great tools and develop him into a monster? Can anybody point to examples?

[jameszeigler834]

Just now, SilentHill said:

I truly believe LeRaven Clark will be the LT of the future here. Getting him reps right now is key.

We will certainly find out I hope he turns into a good player.

[jameszeigler834]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

Are there super raw OTs drafted on potential that couldn't get any reps as rookies that became successful long-term tackles in the league? This is a genuine question, because I don't know the answer - how often does this happen? Draft extremely raw O-line prospect with great tools and develop him into a monster? Can anybody point to examples?

There is a strong possibility he could  be a good long term player you never know its unlikely but is possible if he has a proper coach teaching him.

[Manning1887]

Dan Feeney seems like the only offensive lineman with a first round grade. Cam Robinson has off the field issues and Ryan Ramczyk only has one year of Division I experience after transferring from a Division III school. 

 

There is no Tyron Smith or Zack Martin in this draft class. Next year's offensive line draft class could be LOADED!!! 

 

This year's draft appears to be stacked on the defensive side of the ball and at running back. 

[richard pallo]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Colts don't need or want to draft an o-lineman in the first round for a variety of reasons.

 

1.    The class of o-lineman is not good.     A terrible class for tackles (that's, in part, why we grabbed Clark last year)    and the guards and centers are more 2nd and 3rd round quality than first.

 

2.   You can find a decent lineman later in the draft.   

 

3.    The lineman we have are young and will improve and then there's Clark, who played a bit Sunday when Reitz went out for a bit.

 

4.    We have other areas of need far more pressing than o-line.    The defense is a mess.    The o-line is improving.     Slowly,  too slowly for my taste,  but it IS improving.      It will be better next year.

 

5.   Focus too much on one position group and you risk letting other groups get worse than you want.    We need huge help everywhere on defense.       It's not only time for the defense,  it's well past due time.

 

This is why you don't go o-line in the 1st round.

 

I have to agree with you here.  I think our line will make a big jump next year.  I know everyone likes Haags potential but I am a little worried about his ability to handle a bull rush.  He is getting beat quite often with one but maybe he can get stronger and fix it.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Are there super raw OTs drafted on potential that couldn't get any reps as rookies that became successful long-term tackles in the league? This is a genuine question, because I don't know the answer - how often does this happen? Draft extremely raw O-line prospect with great tools and develop him into a monster? Can anybody point to examples?

 

Fair question.     Deserves a fair answer.

 

We, meaning the NFL,  is now in somewhat unchartered waters.     With most of college football going to spread offenses,  most lineman coming out of college are not even close to being ready to start as rookies.    They're no longer being trained in NFL style offenses.       So, teams now need to train-up these rookies...

 

For example,  last year, 2015,  Arizona drafted DJ Humphrey out of Florida in the 1st round.    Not only did he not play a single game as a rookie,   he did not even suit-up for a single game.     They kept him in civilian clothes on the sidelines to make sure they wouldn't be tempted to use him.     That was the plan the whole way.   A full and complete red-shirt year.

 

That's what we're going with Clark.     We're trying to give him a red shirt year so that next year,  he can start at RT.        Clark is literally what you want from a raw tools perspective.      Height,  weight,  arm length, hand zip, athleticism,    smarts,  IQ and wonderlic test,  plus, he started 52 games in college.      He was just trained in a system that is not the NFL way.      A 2-point stance rather than a 3-point stance.     He'd have been eaten alive if we tried to play him from the start.

 

So, the goal is, Clark starts next year.     Perhaps a few years after that, he flips over and becomes the new LT and Haeg starts at RT.       That would make complete sense.

 

Hope this helps......

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, SilentHill said:

I truly believe LeRaven Clark will be the LT of the future here. Getting him reps right now is key.

 

Agreed,  Clark could become out LT of the future....

 

But.....

 

Before he becomes the LT of the future,  he has to become and succeed as the RT of the Colts.    He's got to play RT for 2-3 years and then he flips over to LT.       He needs success on the right side before he's exposed to premier pass rushers on the left side.

 

[will426]

9 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Normally I'd agree with loading up on 1st round OL. But Grigson's track record outside of Kelly on early round OL picks have not been great. Plus where the Colts will be drafting, there really isn't any great OL prospects there. I don't think much of Cam Robinson from Alabama. 

 

Indy needs to sign a proven road grading RG who is still young. Kevin Zeitler from the bengals would be perfect. The rest of the OL is set with Costanzo, Mewhort, Kelly, and Haeg. 

I think you need an insurance policy on mewhort he's been getting injured a lot lately 

[will426]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I have to agree with you here.  I think our line will make a big jump next year.  I know everyone likes Haags potential but I am a little worried about his ability to handle a bull rush.  He is getting beat quite often with one but maybe he can get stronger and fix it.  

I'm worried about Ac with the bull rush as well 

[BProland85]

4 minutes ago, will426 said:

I think you need an insurance policy on mewhort he's been getting injured a lot lately 

You'd still have both Good and Harrison as backups. Granted both aren't great players, but that's why they're backups. At some point you can't invest every high draft pick into OL players, because talent is much needed elsewhere also, especially on defense.

[will426]

Just now, BProland85 said:

You'd still have both Good and Harrison as backups. Granted both aren't great players, but that's why they're backups. At some point you cant invent every high draft pick into OL players, because talent is much needed elsewhere also, especially on defense.

Good has been injure prone too Harrison seems like he can be a great run blocker though at RG tho and the defense is horrible at only 1 area  linebacker safety were young and talented will be mistakes...corner were fine with Melvin as #2 Davis #1. P Rob -3 or if we decide to keep butler after his stellar play..I know an injury to Davis hurts this defense but you can say that about any team with a shutdown corner drafting a rookie to come in who probably won't get any burn would be wasteful..dline were set on depth and starters I think...now ilb I'm not sure about Morrison but Ejax looks like a future stud..olb retail everyone BUT walden..if anything bring in a solid ilb who can cover via FA draft olb first two rounds and follow up with OLINE?

[weslo1812]

46 minutes ago, will426 said:

Good has been injure prone too Harrison seems like he can be a great run blocker though at RG tho and the defense is horrible at only 1 area  linebacker safety were young and talented will be mistakes...corner were fine with Melvin as #2 Davis #1. P Rob -3 or if we decide to keep butler after his stellar play..I know an injury to Davis hurts this defense but you can say that about any team with a shutdown corner drafting a rookie to come in who probably won't get any burn would be wasteful..dline were set on depth and starters I think...now ilb I'm not sure about Morrison but Ejax looks like a future stud..olb retail everyone BUT walden..if anything bring in a solid ilb who can cover via FA draft olb first two rounds and follow up with OLINE?

I don't know about D line being set, I think we could definitely stand an upgrade at NT, Still not too stout there it seems to me. 

[will426]

1 hour ago, weslo1812 said:

I don't know about D line being set, I think we could definitely stand an upgrade at NT, Still not too stout there it seems to me. 

Yeah at NT were not set but we get gashed on outside runs crazy sometimes it's not a main priority  but can be fixed via FA for cheaper 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, will426 said:

I think you need an insurance policy on mewhort he's been getting injured a lot lately 

 

This is the NFL......     everyone gets injured a lot lately.

 

If you had an insurance policy for everyone who gets hurt,  you'd need a 75 man roster.

 

This is what makes the sport so brutal......   it's a game of attrition.

 

Grigson talks about taking care of the back of the roster.....     THIS IS WHY!  

 

When your starters go down,  you need quality back-ups.      It's hard to find those guys.....

 

[NorthernBlue]

We need to have a bit of patience with the current 2015 draft class. They're all still young and learning. They're gonna get better. We can't just expect the team to draft a new Olinemen every year. Indy just invested half of their draft on offensive line talent. So far, only 1 of those picks has really worked out for this season, and that's Kelly. But remember, Clark is young and developing. Haeg was pushed into a starting role much to soon (due to injuries obviously), and did as well as he could, and Blythe....well to be honest I don't know what's going on with him but he is just a depth piece.

 

Kelly is gonna get better, Haeg is gonna get better and you gotta hope Clark develops into that starting right tackle that the team envisions him to become. Plus you still got Denzelle Good, who has had his ups and downs (and even more downs). But he's still young too (though he's gotta lose some weight. Like right now).

 

I saw people on the forum kinda trashing Philibin, saying he's not really helped the O line much at all. Again......Remember how young these guys are. Yeah I cringe to every time I see Andrew hit the ground. But the reactions regarding the offensive line have been super knee jerky IMO. Give it time. They're gonna get better. 

 

 

I do think they should think about perhaps taking a guard in the middle rounds if the value matches up.

[Clem-Dog]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is the NFL......     everyone gets injured a lot lately.

 

If you had an insurance policy for everyone who gets hurt,  you'd need a 75 man roster.

 

This is what makes the sport so brutal......   it's a game of attrition.

 

Grigson talks about taking care of the back of the roster.....     THIS IS WHY!  

 

When your starters go down,  you need quality back-ups.      It's hard to find those guys.....

 

 

The NFL has talked about expanding roster limits and they should.

[will426]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is the NFL......     everyone gets injured a lot lately.

 

If you had an insurance policy for everyone who gets hurt,  you'd need a 75 man roster.

 

This is what makes the sport so brutal......   it's a game of attrition.

 

Grigson talks about taking care of the back of the roster.....     THIS IS WHY!  

 

When your starters go down,  you need quality back-ups.      It's hard to find those guys.....

 

I understand what you mean but it's the line in which needs to protect luck much better especially  if we have an incompetent coach and oc who don't know how to call slants/crossing routes/bunched formations/hurry up to save thier star qb 

[will426]

8 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

We need to have a bit of patience with the current 2015 draft class. They're all still young and learning. They're gonna get better. We can't just expect the team to draft a new Olinemen every year. Indy just invested half of their draft on offensive line talent. So far, only 1 of those picks has really worked out for this season, and that's Kelly. But remember, Clark is young and developing. Haeg was pushed into a starting role much to soon (due to injuries obviously), and did as well as he could, and Blythe....well to be honest I don't know what's going on with him but he is just a depth piece.

 

Kelly is gonna get better, Haeg is gonna get better and you gotta hope Clark develops into that starting right tackle that the team envisions him to become. Plus you still got Denzelle Good, who has had his ups and downs (and even more downs). But he's still young too (though he's gotta lose some weight. Like right now).

 

I saw people on the forum kinda trashing Philibin, saying he's not really helped the O line much at all. Again......Remember how young these guys are. Yeah I cringe to every time I see Andrew hit the ground. But the reactions regarding the offensive line have been super knee jerky IMO. Give it time. They're gonna get better. 

 

 

I do think they should think about perhaps taking a guard in the middle rounds if the value matches up.

Yeah I don't think we should OLINE every draft lol but we need a gaurd incase mewhort gets hurt once again or whoever starts at RG is on the field too.. Haeg is the MVP of the line to me even though he's struggled he's played two positions maybe gonna be 3 this week and he's been more good over the bad 

[pgt_rob]

Grab BPA for defense. Hopefully we grab our premier pass rusher. Look for CB or linebacker in the 2nd rounder.

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, Clem-Dog said:

 

The NFL has talked about expanding roster limits and they should.

 

I'm with ya!      I'm always for expanded rosters!     

 

Instead of a 53 with dressing 46,   I'd rather see at least 55 with dressing 50.

 

Gotta protect these guys......

 

 

[COLTS449]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 2:51 PM, stitches said:

Are there super raw OTs drafted on potential that couldn't get any reps as rookies that became successful long-term tackles in the league? This is a genuine question, because I don't know the answer - how often does this happen? Draft extremely raw O-line prospect with great tools and develop him into a monster? Can anybody point to examples?

 

This guy named Jason Peters who's been the starting LT for Philly for years. Yeah he's pretty good. But man there's numerous LT's and RT's like you're describing who have developed into beasts. Off the top of my head Terron Armstead. He was a 3rd. now he's developed into a stud LT down in NO. guys like Veldeer. Where was he drafted? 4th maybe? Several others. So Clark could be the next Armstead, he could be even better, he could be a total bust, he could be a mediocre backup for 5-6 years, he could be a decent-good RT, or he could be a great RT. We have no idea how he's gonna look. I didn't like the pick, but he could end up being a stud.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, COLTS449 said:

 

This guy named Jason Peters who's been the starting LT for Philly for years. Yeah he's pretty good. But man there's numerous LT's and RT's like you're describing who have developed into beasts. Off the top of my head Terron Armstead. He was a 3rd. now he's developed into a stud LT down in NO. guys like Veldeer. Where was he drafted? 4th maybe? Several others. So Clark could be the next Armstead, he could be even better, he could be a total bust, he could be a mediocre backup for 5-6 years, he could be a decent-good RT, or he could be a great RT. We have no idea how he's gonna look. I didn't like the pick, but he could end up being a stud.

I have no opinion one way or the other about the Clark pick right now. I knew he was raw and would probably be red-shirted so I didn't have any expectations about this year. Next season I'd like to see him get some snaps on the right side and if he does well I expect him to usurp the RT position. I will start worrying if he can't get on the field even next year or if he is completely overmatched when he's put on the field.

 

My post was more about exploration of the strategy of drafting players like him and whether or not we have evidence to suggest that it's a good strategy. I hope our FO has some sort of way to determine the expected value of the strategy at different points of the draft.

[COLTS449]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 2:55 PM, stitches said:

I have no opinion one way or the other about the Clark pick right now. I knew he was raw and would probably be red-shirted so I didn't have any expectations about this year. Next season I'd like to see him get some snaps on the right side and if he does well I expect him to usurp the RT position. I will start worrying if he can't get on the field even next year or if he is completely overmatched when he's put on the field.

 

My post was more about exploration of the strategy of drafting players like him and whether or not we have evidence to suggest that it's a good strategy. I hope our FO has some sort of way to determine the expected value of the strategy at different points of the draft.

 

Well we drafted D'Joun Smith and Phillip Dorsett instead of Eric Kendricks and Danielle Hunter, so LOL. The raw gem Tackle (If there is one) will probably be some other 3rd or 4th rounder.

[coltsfanatic24]

There's too many needs defensively to draft any offensive player within the first three rounds. Luck will finish with 30+ TD's 4,000 yards and he missed some games. This team needs playmakers on defense. 

[DougDew]

The only offensive positions I would look at this year is RB and maybe TE in the later rounds. 

[UKColt13]

No olineman worth the pick this year. Stacked at edge rusher though.