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Ravens Hire Jim Caldwell


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Um, Caldwell likely won't be doing any play calling seeing as Cam Cameron is still the OC in Baltimore. :P

You do realize that if Spagnuolo had acceptd the DC position here that Caldwell would still be the HC right? It was only after Spags turned us down that Caldwell was fired. From what I was able to read about the situation I think Spags declining to come here was the final moment of realization for Grigs and Irsay that we wouldn't be able to get a quality DC to come here if Caldwell was still here and it was only then they made the final call to fire Caldwell.

All that said, I'm certainly happy Caldwell is gone but I'm also happy for him for landing a new job. I'm not sure how much blame Caldwell deserves and how much falls on Polian but I think it's certain that both share in the blame for this past season.

You hve NO PROOF OF THIS!!!!!! All oppion!!!!!!!!!!

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So, if Flacco becomes a better quarterback next season, does Caldwell get any credit for that?

Of course not. The Caldwell haters will say Flacco finally just started to get it or he understands Cam's system better now.

I do find it funny, in a sad kind of way, how many people fear Caldwell; to still be so rabid about him even when they get their wish and he is no longer with the Colts.

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He was being looked at as the steelers offensive coordinator... i wouldnt be surprised if he is the ravens OC after the upcoming season, or leaves for another HC job

You honestly believe another team will make him their headcoach? Seriously? He just went from HC to position coach. Nobody is gonna make that leap with him again.

I barely have confidence in him as a QB coach since he was unable to see how much better Orlovsky was then Painter.

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Nope, none at all.

How does that work? People are dogging Flacco, and have been for at least two seasons. His own teammates are throwing him under the bus, publicly. If he becomes a significantly better quarterback, his position coach gets zero credit for that? Wow.

Of course not. The Caldwell haters will say Flacco finally just started to get it or he understands Cam's system better now.

I do find it funny, in a sad kind of way, how many people fear Caldwell; to still be so rabid about him even when they get their wish and he is no longer with the Colts.

I don't get it, either. I'm not on a crusade for him. I don't think he was a good head coach. I just don't know why people hated him so much.

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You honestly believe another team will make him their headcoach? Seriously? He just went from HC to position coach. Nobody is gonna make that leap with him again.

Bill Belichick went from HC of Cleveland to defensive backs coach of New England to DC of the Jets to HC of the Pats. I don't think Caldwell is as good a coach as BB, but not many people thought BB was a good coach after Cleveland.
I barely have confidence in him as a QB coach since he was unable to see how much better Orlovsky was then Painter.

You do realize he was not the QB coach for either Orlovsky or Painter, don't you?
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I don't get it, either. I'm not on a crusade for him. I don't think he was a good head coach. I just don't know why people hated him so much.

Yes, I know. I still remember our back and forth after the SB loss. ;).

I know why people hate him... it's because he pulled the starters when the Colts were 14-0 when everyone was convinced they were going for perfection after the Jax game.

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You honestly believe another team will make him their headcoach? Seriously? He just went from HC to position coach. Nobody is gonna make that leap with him again.

I barely have confidence in him as a QB coach since he was unable to see how much better Orlovsky was then Painter.

Yes I do believe that, thankfully for him there are ppl who think the opposite... like I said Caldwell was a bad evaluator but a good coach, I will not be surprised if he got another coaching job.

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I believe that Caldwell will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever be a head coach in the NFL again, he shot this team in the foot several times and it's all on tape. Someone should charge him with wrongful death of the colts for the last two years and get Marvin Harrison to hide the smoking gun.

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I know why people hate him... it's because he pulled the starters when the Colts were 14-0 when everyone was convinced they were going for perfection after the Jax game.

What does Bill Polian have to do with this?

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Of course not. The Caldwell haters will say Flacco finally just started to get it or he understands Cam's system better now.

I do find it funny, in a sad kind of way, how many people fear Caldwell; to still be so rabid about him even when they get their wish and he is no longer with the Colts.

Haters is an internet term made up to classify people who don't think the same as others. If I don't agree with any of your opinions, I would be labled as a coffeedrinker "Hater". I don't believe anyone hated Caldwell. I believe a lot of people were hoping for a NFL coach to come out of him at some point. Parhaps learn on the job? He never got it, the light bulb never whent on. As for him being a good quarterbacks coach, He had Manning for 7 or 8 years. I seriously dought he taught Manning all he knows about being a proffessional QB. If Flacco starts going to probowls then good for him. Its like training a champion horse, Did the trainer teach the horse how to run faster?
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Haters is an internet term made up to classify people who don't think the same as others. If I don't agree with any of your opinions, I would be labled as a coffeedrinker "Hater". I don't believe anyone hated Caldwell. I believe a lot of people were hoping for a NFL coach to come out of him at some point. Parhaps learn on the job? He never got it, the light bulb never whent on. As for him being a good quarterbacks coach, He had Manning for 7 or 8 years. I seriously dought he taught Manning all he knows about being a proffessional QB. If Flacco starts going to probowls then good for him. Its like training a champion horse, Did the trainer teach the horse how to run faster?

Nice! I for one hope Caldwell does well but the responses on this thread are ridiculous! I mean are all his relatives members? lol, btw, Curtis was a BEAST and one of my alltime fave Colts!

Good luck jim, just not against The Colts ;)

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Haters is an internet term made up to classify people who don't think the same as others.

Actually the word hater was around long before the internet I remember hearing as a kid and that was, unfortunately, long before the internet. And it's used for people who do not like someone or something.
If I don't agree with any of your opinions, I would be labled as a coffeedrinker "Hater".
Not by me you wouldn't be. Pig headed, stubborn, lack of knowledge, without hope.... maybe but not a hater. ;)
I don't believe anyone hated Caldwell. I believe a lot of people were hoping for a NFL coach to come out of him at some point. Parhaps learn on the job? He never got it, the light bulb never whent on.
That's not true at all. But it is something a Caldwell hater would state.
As for him being a good quarterbacks coach, He had Manning for 7 or 8 years. I seriously dought he taught Manning all he knows about being a proffessional QB. If Flacco starts going to probowls then good for him. Its like training a champion horse, Did the trainer teach the horse how to run faster?

So why do teams have a QB coach and pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars?
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As for him being a good quarterbacks coach, He had Manning for 7 or 8 years. I seriously dought he taught Manning all he knows about being a proffessional QB. If Flacco starts going to probowls then good for him. Its like training a champion horse, Did the trainer teach the horse how to run faster?

You're arguing 32 NFL coaches out of a job right now. Not to mention all the other position coaches. The position coach has responsibilities, and gets graded on how well he discharges those reponsibilities. At least, everyone but Jim Caldwell.

I don't think he deserves credit for Manning becoming such a great player, but he was his position coach for 7 years. I think it's a bit unrealistic to claim that he had nothing to do with Manning's success. Sounds like someone has an axe to grind if you're going to claim that the player's position coach had nothing to do with his success. And there's no doubt that Manning improved after 2001, and within two years, he was winning his first MVP.

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Bill Belichick went from HC of Cleveland to defensive backs coach of New England to DC of the Jets to HC of the Pats. I don't think Caldwell is as good a coach as BB, but not many people thought BB was a good coach after Cleveland.

You do realize he was not the QB coach for either Orlovsky or Painter, don't you?

You do realize that being a QB coach was supposed to be his "specialty" and It was his Call as the Head coach what to do. If he was such a great QB coach why would he not be able to tell that Orlovsky was better. I mean fans sitting at home could see who was better, Just because he was the HC at the time doesn't mean he doesn't deserve any blame that is just silly. he deserves blame cause that was his "specialty", I mean he worked his way up from that job and returned to it. Why does being a HC make him blameless for the whole Painter fiasco? It was by far the most important part of his job after Peyton went down. And your acting like he never should have cared about the QB situation.

And really? Your comparing Caldwell to BB? Did you pull any muscles with that stretch?

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The funny thing is this thread was started to announce JC, no not that one, was hired to be The Raven's QB Coach and went from bashing him to bashing those who did?

I remember the years JC, again not that one, was the QB Coach for Manning. All that time OC Tom Moore was said to be in sync with Manning. The two had the same vision and game plan plus one could argue Howard Mudd's work with the O'Line was a direct result, coupled with Moore's, to the GREATNESS we saw in those years. I was floored when Tony Dungy named Caldwell the Assistant in waiting plus he had PM's ringing endorsement. It didn't take long before Moore and Mudd had their "status" changed and both retired only to re-surface. The wheels started to fall off then....let's not lose sight of that please.

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The funny thing is this thread was started to announce JC, no not that one, was hired to be The Raven's QB Coach and went from bashing him to bashing those who did?

I remember the years JC, again not that one, was the QB Coach for Manning. All that time OC Tom Moore was said to be in sync with Manning. The two had the same vision and game plan plus one could argue Howard Mudd's work with the O'Line was a direct result, coupled with Moore's, to the GREATNESS we saw in those years. I was floored when Tony Dungy named Caldwell the Assistant in waiting plus he had PM's ringing endorsement. It didn't take long before Moore and Mudd had their "status" changed and both retired only to re-surface. The wheels started to fall off then....let's not lose sight of that please.

The Moore and Mudd tenure thing happened in 2008. They were basically out the door at that point.

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The Moore and Mudd tenure thing happened in 2008. They were basically out the door at that point.

Yep, the beginning of the end....I guess you missed my point? That's fine though as you and all the others who think Caldwell was a great coach and pick as the HC are entitled. Myself and others don't have to feel that way but I do disagree with bashing him on his way out. He's the Ravens QB coach now, let's see what he does with Flacco...who seemed to turn a corner in this years playoffs.

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Yep, the beginning of the end....I guess you missed my point? That's fine though as you and all the others who think Caldwell was a great coach and pick as the HC are entitled. Myself and others don't have to feel that way but I do disagree with bashing him on his way out. He's the Ravens QB coach now, let's see what he does with Flacco...who seemed to turn a corner in this years playoffs.

1) I don't think Caldwell was a great coach or a great pick as a head coach. I've said as much on this very board for many months, and on previous boards for three years. I hate -- HATE -- the way he got the job, whether he was a good coach or not.

2) My point was just that I don't think Caldwell was responsible for pushing Moore or Mudd out the door. If you weren't insinuating that he played a part in that, then I did miss your point.

I don't think Moore or Mudd leaving should have crippled an entire offense and organization. That makes no sense to me. Teams lose good coaches and coordinators all the time. We liked the continuity of having those two on the sidelines for so many years, but things change. NFL = Not For Long. It was really an aberration that they were around for as long as they were.

The problem is that we tried to extend that continuity for longer than it was realistic to do so, and we thought that promoting from within would make it like those guys never left. I don't blame Christiansen for the offensive issues we had last year, and I don't blame Metzelaars for the offensive line issues of the past few years (offensive line started to crumble under Mudd in 2008, and really got better last season). But just like I disliked the way Caldwell was appointed, I think it was a mistake to promote from within without making sure we had the best available guys for the job. Should have at least done our due diligence.

The other problem is that Polian didn't do a good job of drafting offensive linemen from 2007 to 2010. Not only was it not enough of a priority, but he didn't make good choices.

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I can't say I disagree....I still have the 09 version...and candidly I meant to say Madden 13 not 12...my bad. My brother has '12 and it's the same commentary...just seems kinda "lazy" they haven't updated it least THAT over 3 releases.

I have never played anything other than Madden so I can't compare it.

I understand what you are saying though. This off-season has me itching to try the next madden out. lol. They might get a "rent" from me.

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Yes I do believe that, thankfully for him there are ppl who think the opposite... like I said Caldwell was a bad evaluator but a good coach, I will not be surprised if he got another coaching job.

Being a good evaluator and a bad coach is the exact reason I would use to argue that he will never be a Head coach again and forever will be a position coach. I think it is funny that you use that same argument to claim he will once again hold the reigns of a Franchise. To each their own though I guess...

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1) I don't think Caldwell was a great coach or a great pick as a head coach. I've said as much on this very board for many months, and on previous boards for three years. I hate -- HATE -- the way he got the job, whether he was a good coach or not.

2) My point was just that I don't think Caldwell was responsible for pushing Moore or Mudd out the door. If you weren't insinuating that he played a part in that, then I did miss your point.

I don't think Moore or Mudd leaving should have crippled an entire offense and organization. That makes no sense to me. Teams lose good coaches and coordinators all the time. We liked the continuity of having those two on the sidelines for so many years, but things change. NFL = Not For Long. It was really an aberration that they were around for as long as they were.

The problem is that we tried to extend that continuity for longer than it was realistic to do so, and we thought that promoting from within would make it like those guys never left. I don't blame Christiansen for the offensive issues we had last year, and I don't blame Metzelaars for the offensive line issues of the past few years (offensive line started to crumble under Mudd in 2008, and really got better last season). But just like I disliked the way Caldwell was appointed, I think it was a mistake to promote from within without making sure we had the best available guys for the job. Should have at least done our due diligence.

The other problem is that Polian didn't do a good job of drafting offensive linemen from 2007 to 2010. Not only was it not enough of a priority, but he didn't make good choices.

You did miss my point and it's fine.....we seem to feel the same but in different ways and that is understandable.

You stated earlier in the thread, "I don't think he deserves credit for Manning becoming such a great player, but he was his position coach for 7 years. I think it's a bit unrealistic to claim that he had nothing to do with Manning's success. Sounds like someone has an axe to grind if you're going to claim that the player's position coach had nothing to do with his success. And there's no doubt that Manning improved after 2001, and within two years, he was winning his first MVP."

I say that Moore and Mudd had more to do with that success than JC. I actually find it odd that you said, " I don't think he deserves credit for Manning becoming such a great player"...then later contradict that statement? I say he, Manning, achieved his lofty status despite JC. And one of the downfalls for this team was allowing a player to help hand pick a Head Coach who he could control...Moore and Mudd saw it, hence the begining of the end....

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Being a good evaluator and a bad coach is the exact reason I would use to argue that he will never be a Head coach again and forever will be a position coach. I think it is funny that you use that same argument to claim he will once again hold the reigns of a Franchise. To each their own though I guess...

You dont need to be a great evaluator to be a good coach, thats why you have scouts.. as a HC your job is to rally the guys, put the best man on the field, call out situations and all that.. Most of that Jim Caldwell was good in. I was never a fan of Caldwell but im not gonna say the guy was a horrible coach, john fox and andy ried are both worse than he is yet they still have their jobs and if fired will most likely return as HC's.

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You dont need to be a great evaluator to be a good coach, thats why you have scouts.. as a HC your job is to rally the guys, put the best man on the field, call out situations and all that.. Most of that Jim Caldwell was good in. I was never a fan of Caldwell but im not gonna say the guy was a horrible coach, john fox and andy ried are both worse than he is yet they still have their jobs and if fired will most likely return as HC's.

What? Did you even read my post?

I agreed that he was in fact a good evaluator. My point was he was a bad coach. I agree with you that a good evaluator is not needed at the HC position. What I think makes a "good" Head coach is someone who can motivate his team to greatness and is also a good game manager in every aspect of the game. From knowing when to kick long field goals to knowing when to call Timeouts.

Caldwell was terrible at game management, making MULTIPLE time out errors and setting Adam V up on many kicks 50+ yards we knew he was more then likely not going to make. I don't think another team will ever give him the reigns of their franchise, EVER. But I bet there are a lot of teams out there that would love him as a position coach.

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What? Did you even read my post?

I agreed that he was in fact a good evaluator. My point was he was a bad coach. I agree with you that a good evaluator is not needed at the HC position. What I think makes a "good" Head coach is someone who can motivate his team to greatness and is also a good game manager in every aspect of the game. From knowing when to kick long field goals to knowing when to call Timeouts.

Caldwell was terrible at game management, making MULTIPLE time out errors and setting Adam V up on many kicks 50+ yards we knew he was more then likely not going to make. I don't think another team will ever give him the reigns of their franchise, EVER. But I bet there are a lot of teams out there that would love him as a position coach.

Good evaluator? caldwell is horrible at evaluating... he didnt start donald when it was clear he eaned it, neither did he start and keep kevin thomas over lacey.. he cut tryon.. kept subbing two safties like its madden or something... plain horrible.

i think this season what we saw was a very average coach unlike the previous seasons where he looked like a pretty good coach... there were alot of reasons for that.. even reggie wayne said himself that the players felt like they cost caldwell his job... which they did lol. But he also made mistakes himself.. none the less he's better than some of the coaches that are currently coaching.

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Good evaluator? caldwell is horrible at evaluating... he didnt start donald when it was clear he eaned it, neither did he start and keep kevin thomas over lacey.. he cut tryon.. kept subbing two safties like its madden or something... plain horrible.

i think this season what we saw was a very average coach unlike the previous seasons where he looked like a pretty good coach... there were alot of reasons for that.. even reggie wayne said himself that the players felt like they cost caldwell his job... which they did lol. But he also made mistakes himself.. none the less he's better than some of the coaches that are currently coaching.

Actually I think in the previous seasons he looked just as average. Actually every negative I listed about his coaching came BEFORE last season. Of course Reggie Wayne is going to say that he is a very loyal guy, he also said Curtis Painter shouldve been the starting QB all along. Just cause Reggie said that is that now true?

How can you state as a fact that Jim cut Tryon, How can you be so sure that Polians hands were not in the mix? I dont get how you can put all that on Jim as a fact.

Also I remember all the talk about cutting Donald Brown in training camp. (Again it is impossible to know how much was Jim and how much was bill for sure) but using your logic Caldwell is a great evaluator for not just outright cutting Brown. Brown had been given multiple chances in the years past and the very fact that Jim wanted to retain him and keep playing him actually disproves your point of Jim being a bad coach for not starting him. If he was really the bad talent evaluator you claim he is he would have just cut him....

Oh and also in your other post you claim a HC does not need to be good at evaluating talent due to scouts and other coaches, therefore why do you blame every single Personnel Issue on Caldwell, shouldnt the scouts and Runningbacks coach take some of the heat too? I mean you cant have your cake and eat it too....

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Actually I think in the previous seasons he looked just as average. Actually every negative I listed about his coaching came BEFORE last season. Of course Reggie Wayne is going to say that he is a very loyal guy, he also said Curtis Painter shouldve been the starting QB all along. Just cause Reggie said that is that now true?

How can you state as a fact that Jim cut Tryon, How can you be so sure that Polians hands were not in the mix? I dont get how you can put all that on Jim as a fact.

Also I remember all the talk about cutting Donald Brown in training camp. (Again it is impossible to know how much was Jim and how much was bill for sure) but using your logic Caldwell is a great evaluator for not just outright cutting Brown. Brown had been given multiple chances in the years past and the very fact that Jim wanted to retain him and keep playing him actually disproves your point of Jim being a bad coach for not starting him. If he was really the bad talent evaluator you claim he is he would have just cut him....

Oh and also in your other post you claim a HC does not need to be good at evaluating talent due to scouts and other coaches, therefore why do you blame every single Personnel Issue on Caldwell, shouldnt the scouts and Runningbacks coach take some of the heat too? I mean you cant have your cake and eat it too....

Despite what reggie said about painter its common sense that the reason caldwell lost his job was because of poor performance by the players, no doubt about that. Im not gonna get into that whole polian was dictator and all that nonsense because i doubt BP was a total scrooge as he was portrayed, when the media asked coyer what happened to tryon he did not say ask polian he said ask the HC... Caldwell is not a great evaluator, if he was he would have realized that Brown was only getting better as his stats showed from the time he was a rookie to now... "numbers do not lie.

As for the evaluation, the scouts job is to find the right players.. not put them on the field.. thats the HC's job and Caldwell did not field the best personnel

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Good evaluator? caldwell is horrible at evaluating... he didnt start donald when it was clear he eaned it, neither did he start and keep kevin thomas over lacey.. he cut tryon.. kept subbing two safties like its madden or something... plain horrible.

i think this season what we saw was a very average coach unlike the previous seasons where he looked like a pretty good coach... there were alot of reasons for that.. even reggie wayne said himself that the players felt like they cost caldwell his job... which they did lol. But he also made mistakes himself.. none the less he's better than some of the coaches that are currently coaching.

Actually Tryon posted on twitter that Caldwell wanted him to start, it was the front office who wanted to part ways with him..

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Despite what reggie said about painter its common sense that the reason caldwell lost his job was because of poor performance by the players, no doubt about that. Im not gonna get into that whole polian was dictator and all that nonsense because i doubt BP was a total scrooge as he was portrayed, when the media asked coyer what happened to tryon he did not say ask polian he said ask the HC... Caldwell is not a great evaluator, if he was he would have realized that Brown was only getting better as his stats showed from the time he was a rookie to now... "numbers do not lie.

As for the evaluation, the scouts job is to find the right players.. not put them on the field.. thats the HC's job and Caldwell did not field the best personnel

In your other quote when you said Caldwell kept subing two safties. That is bad COACHING not bad talent evaluating. They were good safetys. put in a bad place by a BAD gameday coach.

Also see what Jvan1973 said before you go on another rant about tryon....

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Actually Tryon posted on twitter that Caldwell wanted him to start, it was the front office who wanted to part ways with him..

I dont really put much into that one.. for polian to bash the secondary only to cut tryon and restart lacey the guy who was the main reason why the coverage was bad? idk about that.... its a bit weird how tryon is like the only guy who had feelings like that towards the FO.

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In your other quote when you said Caldwell kept subing two safties. That is bad COACHING not bad talent evaluating. They were good safetys. put in a bad place by a BAD gameday coach.

Also see what Jvan1973 said before you go on another rant about tryon....

That can go both ways, Joe Lefeged was the better Saftey, much faster, good tackler, better in coverage... that is not being a good evaluator. Caldwell kept playing those two guys based on situations when really more than half the time he wouldnt know what the offense would run so he would have the wrong personnel on the field... he did not have the better guy on the field and that to me is wrong evaluation.

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I dont really put much into that one.. for polian to bash the secondary only to cut tryon and restart lacey the guy who was the main reason why the coverage was bad? idk about that.... its a bit weird how tryon is like the only guy who had feelings like that towards the FO.

He really didnt say anything bad about the FO.. Just that Caldwell wanted him to start and the FO thought otherwise

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Right from Jim caldwell's mouth

“Well, probably without being boastful or seeming as if that I’m reacting to that particular statement, but I can just tell you that if I wanted him to start, he would have started,” Caldwell said. “If I wanted him to here, he’d still be here, plain and simple. I’m not going to carry on a back-and-forth, you know, because the young man did a good job for us while he was here and I hope he’s able to land with someone else.”

Take it as you want it but i dont think any man would want to be told how to do his job, let alone someone that is in the spotlight so much as a HC.

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Right from Jim caldwell's mouth

“Well, probably without being boastful or seeming as if that I’m reacting to that particular statement, but I can just tell you that if I wanted him to start, he would have started,” Caldwell said. “If I wanted him to here, he’d still be here, plain and simple. I’m not going to carry on a back-and-forth, you know, because the young man did a good job for us while he was here and I hope he’s able to land with someone else.”

Take it as you want it but i dont think any man would want to be told how to do his job, let alone someone that is in the spotlight so much as a HC.

Im more inclined to believe the guy who was no longer employed by the orginization than one trying to keep his job..

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Im more inclined to believe the guy who was no longer employed by the orginization than one trying to keep his job..

Believe what you wanna belive, the man was bitter and gassed lol.. felt like he deserved to start.. when he didnt both him and Lacey were as bad it could get.

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