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Colts workout Nate Irving


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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

An AQ Shipley situatin at ILB?

We have a winner! Give the man a cigar!  Add in Harrison and Richardson to Good and McNary and you have 4 examples of Grigson projects being forced on the field over better players.  Nearly everyone (except Grigson apologists) knew none of those players deserved to play n front of others (we're still stuck with Good unless they find someone else on the street to take his place eventually).  Grigson falls so deeply in love with his little projects that he just can't accept the obvious, they can't play.

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agreed with the general consensus, was always confused why we cut him in the first place. its like he never really got a chance which was weird, and i like him when he was in denver, from what i remember, he wasnt bad at pass coverage but could be wrong.

 

i will say i was really excited for the edwin jackson experiment (one of the few things to look forward to for the rest of the season personally) along with other young players. its so refresing to see someone so quick like him at that position compared to the rest this season

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1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

We have a winner! Give the man a cigar!  Add in Harrison and Richardson to Good and McNary and you have 4 examples of Grigson projects being forced on the field over better players.  Nearly everyone (except Grigson apologists) knew none of those players deserved to play n front of others (we're still stuck with Good unless they find someone else on the street to take his place eventually).  Grigson falls so deeply in love with his little projects that he just can't accept the obvious, they can't play.

 

 

What am I missing........    who is on the bench that is more deserving of starting than Good?

 

 

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9 hours ago, SilentHill said:

I had a hard time believing we cut our projected starter at ILB in the first place.

He was injured a lot  and not as good as people made him out to be. Although he's probably better than Mcnary. But Mcnary is one of Grigson's project guys so it doesn't surprise me he stayed. 

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5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

What am I missing........    who is on the bench that is more deserving of starting than Good?

 

 

That's why I said unless we find someone on the street, right now with injuries we're stuck with him. But Haeg is better and Reitz would be better at RG than him in my opinion.  At the very least he should get a look because between the penalties (Good single handedly cost us our only chance to come back in that game) or his poor overall play, someone else should be given a shot.  The fact they didn't make sure we had a solid veteran FA at RG brought in instead of rolling with Good demonstrates the point.  In the past, his project players got shown up by other players so he solved that by making sure we had no other viable option at RG (once he gave up finally on Harrison who never should have made the 53.

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7 hours ago, JPFolks said:

We have a winner! Give the man a cigar!  Add in Harrison and Richardson to Good and McNary and you have 4 examples of Grigson projects being forced on the field over better players.  Nearly everyone (except Grigson apologists) knew none of those players deserved to play n front of others (we're still stuck with Good unless they find someone else on the street to take his place eventually).  Grigson falls so deeply in love with his little projects that he just can't accept the obvious, they can't play.

No.  That's not what I meant.  And that stuff about Grigson bullying Pagano has been totally debunked.  It was always just a figment of the imagination held by people who simply hate people in high places, notably Kravitz and Doyel catering to an audience.

 

Obviously, at the time he was cut, Irving was either still injured or lost a step and Pagano preferred McNary at the time, probably because he is the better special teams player.  Now Grigson is kicking the tires on Irving again, like he did last season when he signed him in the first place, because we all know McNary can't play ILB. 

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1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

That's why I said unless we find someone on the street, right now with injuries we're stuck with him. But Haeg is better and Reitz would be better at RG than him in my opinion.  At the very least he should get a look because between the penalties (Good single handedly cost us our only chance to come back in that game) or his poor overall play, someone else should be given a shot.  The fact they didn't make sure we had a solid veteran FA at RG brought in instead of rolling with Good demonstrates the point.  In the past, his project players got shown up by other players so he solved that by making sure we had no other viable option at RG (once he gave up finally on Harrison who never should have made the 53.

Good Gawd.  So Grigson drafts Haeg this year, in the 5th out of North Dakota State, but bullies Pagano into starting Good because Good is the project player due to the fact he was 7th round pick from Mars Hill?

 

How can people make this stuff up?

 

See, I would assume that Good is starting at RG over Haeg because Philbin and Pagano thinks he is better, or, because they want him to win the job because they want Haeg to win one of the backup tackle spots.  The vision is for Haeg to eventually play OT, not G.

 

And Good may very well play himself out of the RG spot, but its not like Pagano already wants him replaced and Grigson is demanding Pagano play him because he has pet fondness for Good.

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

No.  That's not what I meant.  And that stuff about Grigson bullying Pagano has been totally debunked.  It was always just a figment of the imagination held by people who simply hate people in high places, notably Kravitz and Doyel catering to an audience.

 

Obviously, at the time he was cut, Irving was either still injured or lost a step and Pagano preferred McNary at the time, probably because he is the better special teams player.  Now Grigson is kicking the tires on Irving again, like he did last season when he signed him in the first place, because we all know McNary can't play ILB. 

Well I am friends with a long time Colts beat writer (17 years) and he told me it was all real. I will take his first hand report which he got from multiple sources inside the organization and players over an anonymous guy's opinion on a message board.  No offense but you're just taking one reporter's (or whoever this "debunker" is you refer to) word over anothers.  Now if you are a credentialed reporter who is personally friends with both players and staff and can prove that to me as he has in spades, and they told you directly, on or off the record, that it wasn't true, then please do share.  Otherwise I am not buying your refutation of the story.

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

For all the people in this thread ragging on management for cutting Irving.....

 

Do you even realize he's on the street right now?   

 

If he's as good as you think,  any of the other 31 NFL teams should've signed him and kept him.

 

So,  what happened?      Do you think by chance the NFL knows something that all of you don't?!?

 

HELLO?!?

 

If all of you are such geniuses and you're right that he's so good,  he wouldn't be available to us now......

 

You might want to re-think this just a little bit...........       :peek:

No one thinks hes great, the thought is he's better than Mcnary, the fact that a guy that 31 other teams passed on and is on the street for two months IS better than our starter is really a testament to how terrible Mcnary is, not how great Irving is.  

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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

No.  That's not what I meant.  And that stuff about Grigson bullying Pagano has been totally debunked.  It was always just a figment of the imagination held by people who simply hate people in high places, notably Kravitz and Doyel catering to an audience.

 

Obviously, at the time he was cut, Irving was either still injured or lost a step and Pagano preferred McNary at the time, probably because he is the better special teams player.  Now Grigson is kicking the tires on Irving again, like he did last season when he signed him in the first place, because we all know McNary can't play ILB. 

 

Where has that been debunked?      Was there a story you can link?

 

When Irsay kept both Grigson and Irsay he made it clear that the two men had not gotten along and the long meetings over two days was to make sure that they could.

 

So,  what makes you think anything was debunked?

 

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37 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Where has that been debunked?      Was there a story you can link?

 

When Irsay kept both Grigson and Irsay he made it clear that the two men had not gotten along and the long meetings over two days was to make sure that they could.

 

So,  what makes you think anything was debunked?

 

Yes, had not gotten a long.

 

It was never shown that Grigson bullied Pagano into starting a player over another, yet that is what many took for granted as happening. 

 

And now some suggest its why McNary was chosen over Irving, and Good over Haeg. Grigson bullying his HC.  Its just nuts.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, had not gotten a long.

 

It was never shown that Grigson bullied Pagano into starting a player over another, yet that is what many took for granted as happening. 

 

And now some suggest its why McNary was chosen over Irving, and Good over Haeg. Grigson bullying his HC.  Its just nuts.

 

 

 

The "some" who are suggesting are people here....

 

And with great respect, and even a little affection,  this is about as uneducated and uninformed a fan base as I've ever seen.......   anywhere.....    in any sport.

 

Some of the stuff posted here is simply astonishing....

 

Good over Haeg has to do with the fact that Haeg plays everywhere,  Good doesn't.

 

My only point is I'm not sure anything has been proven or debunked.     I'm not sure we'll ever really know.

 

The one thing we do know is that the relationship was not good.    It had gotten unhealthy --- professionally speaking --- and now it's better.

 

But what happens come January if Pagano is fired and Grigson is retained?     I'd be very curious what Pagano will say?        Maybe he wants another job and says nothing.      Or maybe he walks away with a large check and speaks his mind?        I don't know.     But I'd be curious........

 

By the way,  I don't think Good is as bad as most here do.    But that's probably just me......

 

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4 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Well I am friends with a long time Colts beat writer (17 years) and he told me it was all real. I will take his first hand report which he got from multiple sources inside the organization and players over an anonymous guy's opinion on a message board.  No offense but you're just taking one reporter's (or whoever this "debunker" is you refer to) word over anothers.  Now if you are a credentialed reporter who is personally friends with both players and staff and can prove that to me as he has in spades, and they told you directly, on or off the record, that it wasn't true, then please do share.  Otherwise I am not buying your refutation of the story.

Why be vague about the details if you know the details? 

 

Since you're in the know, which beat writer told you that Grigson bullied Pagano into starting which player he didn't want over which player he wanted.?

 

Does your beat writer friend think that Grigson told Pagano that Irving would be cut over McNary and that Pagano wanted McNary?  And that he ordered Pagano to start his 7th round draft choice Good over his 5th round draft choice Haeg?

 

This isn't a challenge.  Its possible that you could supply real information on the subject.  That would be enlightening.

 

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5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 this is about as uneducated and uninformed a fan base as I've ever seen.......   anywhere.....    in any sport.

 

Some of the stuff posted here is simply astonishing....

 

Easy to make your point without taking a shot at everyone on the boards don't you think?

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McNary was chosen over Irving. Grigson said after the cuts that it came down to being able to play on  special teams. Mcnary could play special teams and Irving cant. With Sio gone now and McNary showing he can't be a starter There's a spot for Irving. I hope this dosnt mean Edwin Jackson gets less playing time. He's not gonna be special IMO but he defiantly could make a good backup.

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4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The "some" who are suggesting are people here....

 

And with great respect, and even a little affection,  this is about as uneducated and uninformed a fan base as I've ever seen.......   anywhere.....    in any sport.

 

Some of the stuff posted here is simply astonishing....

 

Good over Haeg has to do with the fact that Haeg plays everywhere,  Good doesn't.

 

My only point is I'm not sure anything has been proven or debunked.     I'm not sure we'll ever really know.

 

The one thing we do know is that the relationship was not good.    It had gotten unhealthy --- professionally speaking --- and now it's better.

 

But what happens come January if Pagano is fired and Grigson is retained?     I'd be very curious what Pagano will say?        Maybe he wants another job and says nothing.      Or maybe he walks away with a large check and speaks his mind?        I don't know.     But I'd be curious........

 

By the way,  I don't think Good is as bad as most here do.    But that's probably just me......

 

The whole reason I said that we might have an AQ Shipley situation at LB was to offer the notion that management can't figure out what marginal-talent player is better over the other. 

 

McNary/Irving, Shipley/Satele.

 

And, both Grigs and Pags might have honest different views, which factors into the decision.  That's normal.  But I doubt that either the HC or GM think that one is clearly better over the other.

 

The problem isn't the relationship between the HC and GM.  The problem is that the players involved are all about the same talent level, so they go back and forth trying to see if someone wins the job.

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39 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Easy to make your point without taking a shot at everyone on the boards don't you think?

 

I'm not implying everyone.

 

I have commented numerous times about the large number of very smart, very sharp, very knowledgeable fans here and how much I like them.

 

I'm speaking generally, broadly. 

 

Some of the discussions here are.......   astonishing.

 

That said........    if you want to remove the post,  and the follow-up posts,  I'd have no objection..........

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The whole reason I said that we might have an AQ Shipley situation at LB was to offer the notion that management can't figure out what marginal-talent player is better over the other. 

 

McNary/Irving, Shipley/Satele.

 

And, both Grigs and Pags might have honest different views, which factors into the decision.  That's normal.  But I doubt that either the HC or GM think that one is clearly better over the other.

 

The problem isn't the relationship between the HC and GM.  The problem is that the players involved are all about the same talent level, so they go back and forth trying to see if someone wins the job.

 

I'm going to apologize up front.....   perhaps I'm completely misremembering,  but I thought it was you, who yesterday, or the day before, said our roster was really good...    really solid,  and was only missing about 3 difference makers.

 

Was that not you?     

 

Again,  I know I saw the post,  but perhaps it was another poster?

 

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4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not implying everyone.

 

I have commented numerous times about the large number of very smart, very sharp, very knowledgeable fans here and how much I like them.

 

I'm speaking generally, broadly. 

 

Some of the discussions here are.......   astonishing.

 

That said........    if you want to remove the post,  and the follow-up posts,  I'd have no objection..........

 

 

 

I think your point is better made leaving your assessment of this fan base as the least informed and educated in any sport out.  It's baiting

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46 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm going to apologize up front.....   perhaps I'm completely misremembering,  but I thought it was you, who yesterday, or the day before, said our roster was really good...    really solid,  and was only missing about 3 difference makers.

 

Was that not you?     

 

Again,  I know I saw the post,  but perhaps it was another poster?

 

 The comment you bolded was referring to the marginal talent level at ILB.  Personally, I'm fine with leaving DQ, Morrison, Edwin Jackson, or a decent vet FA at one spot (like Freeman), but the other spot needs to have an impactful ILB.

 

Yes, I said the other day the roster it was good to very good (however, the young players need to develop as expected.  But none are destined to be impact players.  And Luck needs to play like a $100 million QB).  Its not excellent or outstanding.  If we added three impact players, pro bowl types, the team would be a perennial playoff contender.  Of course, a pass rusher, a real top ten pick type, needs to replace Mathis.

 

The team made the playoffs consistently when Reggie and Mathis were playing at a top level every play, and Redding and Freeman were making splashes once in a while.  Colts havent been able to replace those guys since they've been drafting too low.  They keep adding good players, but not impact players.  They just haven't had the resources to do that while keeping their younger core players. 

 

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Halfway through the season and we are still trying out street free agents to find a decent player at ILB. When camp started ILB was a concern, but still felt like with DJax, Moore, Irving, Morrison, etc. that we would have good competition and come out with a serviceable set of ILB's. Wrong a hundred ways. Never thought ILB would be a strength, but good gracious, horrible does not describe our ILB play. Ready to give anyone a try, Irving (either Nate or Michael!) can step up and give it a shot-- maybe he can actually tackle?

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20 hours ago, DougDew said:

Why be vague about the details if you know the details? 

 

Since you're in the know, which beat writer told you that Grigson bullied Pagano into starting which player he didn't want over which player he wanted.?

 

Does your beat writer friend think that Grigson told Pagano that Irving would be cut over McNary and that Pagano wanted McNary?  And that he ordered Pagano to start his 7th round draft choice Good over his 5th round draft choice Haeg?

 

This isn't a challenge.  Its possible that you could supply real information on the subject.  That would be enlightening.

 

On all of these issues, I HAVE shared for months, in real time, what he's told me that I can print on this board.  For months and months and going back over two plus years ago when it started becoming obvious with Shipley.  Obviously he can't share names of players and personnel if it is off the record, nor will I, but he writes about some of this stuff.  Here's an article by him about this last game.  When's the last time you chatted with Robert Mathis? https://www.all22.com/indianapolis-colts/inconsistent-indianapolis-colts-continue-to-be-uninspiring

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32 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

On all of these issues, I HAVE shared for months, in real time, what he's told me that I can print on this board.  For months and months and going back over two plus years ago when it started becoming obvious with Shipley.  Obviously he can't share names of players and personnel if it is off the record, nor will I, but he writes about some of this stuff.  Here's an article by him about this last game.  When's the last time you chatted with Robert Mathis? https://www.all22.com/indianapolis-colts/inconsistent-indianapolis-colts-continue-to-be-uninspiring

We have all read articles by Colts beat writers.  I never read one where they stated that Grigson bullied Pagano into starting one player over another.  Even talking to the players, even Shipley himself, couldn't ever confirm that.  Its always been innuendo.

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