Is this a catchable pass or not?

[ColtsBlueFL]

You make the call... (anybody remember those?)

 

It's 3rd down late in the first half.  Luck was not pressured in the pocket (unlike other times that game)  and the receiver (TY Hilton) was uncovered and his line of sight to the ball unhindered.  Here are two still frames.

 

Question, is this a catchable pass, or is it a bad throw by the quarterback?

 

 

 

I bring this up because I heard the KC Chiefs broadcast booth announce it one way live, while I saw many Colts fans in chat and thread say otherwise..  So the question remains, should this pass be caught or is it too 'off' by the QB to expect a reception?

 live

 

[Bravo]

Catchable....

[Solon]

Yes

[jbaron04]

Remember he running full speed ball behind him,  slow mo shots don't show that 

[Everyone]

It's in his hands so imo it should've been caught but it was also poorly thrown.

[Track Guy]

It's catchable. Not an easy catch, but definitely catchable.

[21isSuperman]

2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

You make the call... (anybody remember those?)

Judging from those frames, it looks catchable since it hits Hilton in his hands.  Do you have a gif?

[ColtsBlueFL]

No gif, can't record one to edit from that source... yet.  I can only do still frames.

 

The KC radio booth ripped TY for dropping a certain TD, they called it.  They mentioned Luck was not on target but it was a play someone of TY's caliber has to make and didn't.  I mention that here on thread and chat and opinion seem almost uiversal Luck was the casue of that 'drop' not TY.

 

Now on still frames people may end up changing their mind in some way?

[Flash]

Catchable. Hilton is what, 1/2 foot off the ground? It's a high throw, but not too high.  Definitely catchable.

[threeflight]

I saw this on the game thread and laughed.

 

The pass was very poor.  VERY poor.  A NFL WR might catch it 1 out of 15 times.  It was high, behind him, and thrown very hard.  Maybe if TY was 6 inches taller or had another 5 inches on his arm reach, he could have gotten it.

 

But anyone blaming that non catch on TY is delusional imo.  

[RockThatBlue]

Was definitely not a good pass, but it was certainly catchable.

[UKColt13]

TYs running full speed. Ball was thrown a bit high and behind him.

 

Technically it's catchable, although I'd say it would be a pretty low percentage catch, especially when you've only got about 10yds of ball travel time to adjust to it.

 

I'd put this down to Luck making an off throw and Hilton being hurt and off his game.

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

This would have been a completed pass to elite receivers like Green, Jones, or Nelson. T.Y. is a great receiver not elite. Wouldn't see throws like that coming from elite qbs either. Our boys are not to that level...yet.

[jchandler7]

I was at the game, had a good view of it and seen the replay twice. It WAS catchable. Was it a perfect pass? No,  but one that TY has to make. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

They say in the NFL, if you get both hands on it, you should pull it down.  This is not college, or high school.  TY seemed to jump late to high point the ball correctly.  Luck threw it out front of him and he had plenty of time to see the ball speed and trajectory  played back , especially slo-mo.  His late leap  and the way it careened off his hands might make it seem it was behind him in real time.  I think TY knows he should have pulled that one in.

 

 

 

KC radio booth placed TY in the class of Jones, Brown, Bryant, Beckham and Green.  Thought he should have made the great play and took it to the house on them.

[BOTT]

More on Luck than TY.

[pgt_rob]

Catchable yes but still a bad throw by Luck. Also have to remember Hilton had a hamstring problem the entire game. I'm sure it hindered his play to jump for the ball. I love how outside of TY Hilton, nobody stood out to have a good game. Literally everyone just took a dump on the field and laid in it.

[IinD]

Pass went to where ty was and not where he was going. Catchable yes, but not an easy catch.

[rockywoj]

If he caught it, it would have been an outstanding catch.   The fact is, though, it was a bad throw and the KC announcers you speak of were way off base to rag on T.Y. for not making what was a very difficult catch.

 

Honestly, I don't even know how this is a debate.   Bad throw and T.Y. didn't make the very difficult catch.  The only thing that ought to be discussed about this play is Luck's lack of accuracy and lack of touch on the throw ... and perhaps how he is becoming shell shocked by bad OL play and bad O scheming.

[threeflight]

Just now, rockywoj said:

If he caught it, it would have been an outstanding catch.   The fact is, though, it was a bad throw and the KC announcers your speak of were way off base to rag on T.Y. For not making what was a very difficult catch.

 

honestly, I don't even know how this is a debate.   Bad throw and T.Y. didn't make the very difficult catch.  The only thing that ought to be discussed about this play is Luck's lack of accuracy and lack of touch on the throw.

Agree 10000000000000000000%.  The pass was bad.  Watching it in full speed, it was a very very very hard catch.

 

Why this is even being debated is twilight zone stuff.

[Derakynn]

I think the issue here is the connotation of catchable. It touched his hands so theoretically it could be caught. That said, when you take the physics into account, there is very little chance that ball will be caught. Just because you want someone to catch the ball does not mean that they "should" have caught it. 

[tncoltsfan57]

Catchable, seems like when TY has a good game he has a great game, when he doesn't get the ball early and often he seems a bit like Dez Bryant like he's just jogging down the field and following the DB. That is my knock on our WR's in general it seems like they are following the DB's moves instead of knowing where they are supposed to go, it really is sad...the team gave up today and you can't deny that. Gut this team before it's too late.

[NewColtsFan]

 

I think freeze frames is an impossible way to judge this....

 

But I think the pass came in to hot and too high.      It should've been catchable....    I don't think Luck's pass helped.

 

I'm just not sure it should have been caught.

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

1 hour ago, threeflight said:

I saw this on the game thread and laughed.

 

The pass was very poor.  VERY poor.  A NFL WR might catch it 1 out of 15 times.  It was high, behind him, and thrown very hard.  Maybe if TY was 6 inches taller or had another 5 inches on his arm reach, he could have gotten it.

 

But anyone blaming that non catch on TY is delusional imo.  

Exactly. I argued with this guy and it's ridiculous . Pictures tell 0% of this story. TY was running a route to the sideline, all momentum sideways, like he was supposed to. Luck threw a pass behind him and high. How can you do this ? 

 

 

[Creekside]

like the jags game, many of Luck's throws were high

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, rockywoj said:

If he caught it, it would have been an outstanding catch.   The fact is, though, it was a bad throw and the KC announcers you speak of were way off base to rag on T.Y. for not making what was a very difficult catch.

 

Honestly, I don't even know how this is a debate.   Bad throw and T.Y. didn't make the very difficult catch.  The only thing that ought to be discussed about this play is Luck's lack of accuracy and lack of touch on the throw ... and perhaps how he is becoming shell shocked by bad OL play and bad O scheming.

I agree.

 

But I've seen a few comments now saying that Luck is shell shocked due to perpetually bad oline play....that bad oline play causes Luck to play poorly even when he has good oline play.  No.  He has always been inaccurate with crossing routes.  Always. Reggie blew out his knee on a similar throw three years ago.  Luck misses crossing routes high, and usually behind the receiver.

 

Its not Grigson's fault he can't throw crossing routes very well (or TD fades, or slide very well).  Its his fault and his alone.

[rockywoj]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree.

 

But I've seen a few comments now saying that Luck is shell shocked due to perpetually bad oline play....that bad oline play causes Luck to play poorly even when he has good oline play.  No.  He has always been inaccurate with crossing routes.  Always. Reggie blew out his knee on a similar throw three years ago.  Luck misses crossing routes high, and usually behind the receiver.

 

Its not Grigson's fault he can't throw crossing routes very well (or TD fades, or slide very well).  Its his fault and his alone.

Your comment about his accuracy cannot be refuted.   Five years in, it's still his weakness.  

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, rockywoj said:

Your comment about his accuracy cannot be refuted.   Five years in, it's still his weakness.  

He seems to be very accurate on the deep corner, post, other stuff to the outside, and when rolling out.  But with the short and mid crossing routes, the receiver hardly ever gets the ball in stride.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, IinD said:

Pass went to where ty was and not where he was going. Catchable yes, but not an easy catch.

 

Nope... see picture

 

5 hours ago, rockywoj said:

If he caught it, it would have been an outstanding catch.   The fact is, though, it was a bad throw and the KC announcers you speak of were way off base to rag on T.Y. for not making what was a very difficult catch.

 

Honestly, I don't even know how this is a debate.   Bad throw and T.Y. didn't make the very difficult catch.  The only thing that ought to be discussed about this play is Luck's lack of accuracy and lack of touch on the throw ... and perhaps how he is becoming shell shocked by bad OL play and bad O scheming.

 

I think Hilton broke the route in too early.  Luck threw the ball well before TY ever broke in.  The pass trajectory was determined  as a timing route play, the way they do it in the NFL. See pic.

 

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think freeze frames is an impossible way to judge this....

 

But I think the pass came in to hot and too high.      It should've been catchable....    I don't think Luck's pass helped.

 

I'm just not sure it should have been caught.

 

 

Peyton Manning made a living off freeze frame pictures.  I think TY ran a somewhat poor route now...  could have been hit in stride full gallop if he kept up the field instead of trying to cut across, but TY turned in too early and too much.  Then had to leap.  Oh to be fly on the wall in film critique tomorrow...  Where does Pagano place the blame here?

 

 

Luck feet placement, eye placement, throw placement, TY isn't even in range yet. Error on Luck guessing what TY would do?  No, I think Luck threw to the area TY was supposed to be, and he essentially wasn't.  That's my story, and I think the professional broadcasters of the opposing team saw it that way too. Most of our fan missed it, IMHO.

 

But Luck will take the blame, no matter what.  TrVth.

[GoColts8818]

catchable but still a bad throw.

[aaron11]

it was a bad throw, ty was wide open on that route

 

it would have been possible to catch, but that would have been the receiver making a great play to bail out his QB

[ColtsBlueFL]

16 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

catchable but still a bad throw.

 

15 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

it was a bad throw, ty was wide open on that route

 

it would have been possible to catch, but that would have been the receiver making a great play to bail out his QB

 

TY was wide open, but not in the right spot. Luck threw it way before TY ever arrived 'in the area'. see pic above.

 

[Smoke317]

It most certainly looked catchable to me. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

catchable but still a bad throw.

 

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

it was a bad throw, ty was wide open on that route

 

it would have been possible to catch, but that would have been the receiver making a great play to bail out his QB

 

Catchable, but bad route running.  Receiver making his QB look bad, but could have bailed himself out.

 

There, we're even.

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

TY was wide open, but not in the right spot. Luck threw it way before TY ever arrived 'in the area'. see pic above.

 

It's high and behind him.  A pro QB if on the same page can put that pass on the money as was pointed out on the broadcast.  Yes TY could have caught it and maybe ran a better route but Luck could have made a better pass too.  Regardless like so many things this season it was sloppy on a give me play that turned into a miss opportunity.  It's these little things that are killing the Colts.  This team is undisciplined and things like this and all the flags contiune to show that and that reflects coaching.  

[tikyle]

Rule of thumb: If it touches both hands it's catchable.

Rule of pinky: Not all passes that touches the receivers hands are good passes.

 

For how you set the play up, no pressure, clean line of site, no one underneath to throw over, it would suggest that it was a very poor pass.  Catchable though but very poor.

[Myles]

5 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

 This team is undisciplined and things like this and all the flags contiune to show that and that reflects coaching.  

I totally agree.  Pagano does not know how to get a team ready to play.   

 

This one is on Luck more than Hilton. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

9 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

It's high and behind him.  

 

How?  Look at the arrows in the picture.  Luck's feet (right hash marks) TY's feet (outside of the left hash marks)  The released ball (right hash marks going slightly toward left hash marks).

 

 

Ty showing his (back) number early, when I think he should have bee running up more toward the blue star.

 

9 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

A pro QB if on the same page can put that pass on the money as was pointed out on the broadcast.  Yes TY could have caught it and maybe ran a better route but Luck could have made a better pass too.  Regardless like so many things this season it was sloppy on a give me play that turned into a miss opportunity.  It's these little things that are killing the Colts.  This team is undisciplined and things like this and all the flags contiune to show that and that reflects coaching.  

 

Once the ball is gone, Luck has no control.  TY has all the control to adjust his route here.  He sees the ball and adjusts to catch it. He didn't do it well enough, IMHO.

 

Show me how the ball was behind TY when it is clearly not in this picture.  Only TY overrunning the intercept point makes it behind him.  And tha isn't on the QB.  And believe me, I not pleased with many of Lucks throws this year.  About the only thing I have against that throw was he had a little more mustard on it than was called for, IMHO.

 

[Jaric]

It would probably be more catchable if Hilton was paying attention.

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

How?  Look at the arrows in the picture.  Luck's feet (right hash marks) TY's feet (outside of the left hash marks)  The released ball (right hash marks going slightly toward left hash marks).

 

 

Ty showing his (back) number early, when I think he should have bee running up more toward the blue star.

 

 

Once the ball is gone, Luck has no control.  TY has all the control to adjust his route here.  He sees the ball and adjusts to catch it. He didn't do it well enough, IMHO.

 

Show me how the ball was behind TY when it is clearly not in this picture.  Only TY overrunning the intercept point makes it behind him.  And tha isn't on the QB.  And believe me, I not pleased with many of Lucks throws this year.  About the only thing I have against that throw was he had a little more mustard on it than was called for, IMHO.

 

Rather TY ran the right route doesn't effect that it was high.  Even if TY is off slightly on his route it doesn't cause the pass to be that high.  Both players could have done better on this play, and you expect two pro-bowl players to do better on this play.  

 

Again this speaks to the real issue this year, it was sloppy.  That reflects poor coaching.  These little things are the Colts problems right now across the board.