What do you think we could get from the Eagles for Dorsett?

[Mr Coffee]

1 hour ago, zibby43 said:

Yeah, let's get rid of Dorsett like a few here wanted to get rid of Hilton before this season.

 

Sometimes, a guy needs some time to develop.  It isn't like Dorsett hasn't made big plays already.  Patience sucks, but sometimes it pays off.

Are you seriously comparing the people that wanted to get rid of Hilton to the people that want Dorsett gone? Did I just read that right?   Hilton produced from day 1. He didn't need time to develop, at least not like this.   Dorsett is no TY Hilton.  Like AZColt and others have said, the only thing we can hope for is that he is struggling early like Reggie Wayne did, and turns into something special, but that's a long shot.  But comparing people wanting Dorsett gone to people who wanted TY gone is asinine.   

[Mr Coffee]

1 hour ago, zibby43 said:

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Too many are either not seeing or refusing to see that Dorsett is still basically a rookie.

He was injured on a freak play and lost all that learning time.

He has good talent and has shown that at times.

 

I'm with ya!

 

I think if we're patient with Dorsett he'll reward that with some really good play.

 

He's got skills that can't be taught.      

 

I don't pretend to know what the problem is,  but once the light comes on,  I think we'll all be happy we didn't trade him for very little.....

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

38 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess you didn't notice the lack of depth when a injury happens?

I think he notices it but also thinks the other receivers are playing better than Dorsett. Which is objectively true, tbh fam 

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, Malakai432 said:

He wouldn't be worth trading IMO because I don't think anyone would give up anything worth while for him and he could be a very good receiver down the road.  Dorsett has 253 yards with limited targets in 6 games with a ridiculous 19.5 ypc.  I am worried about his injuries though, he's missed a nice chunk of time in his first two seasons which hinders his development.  The dude just needs to stay healthy and be utilized more effectively.  He has potential to get a lot of yards after catch but it seems like they chuck it to him deep often.  I thought he would have around 600-700 yards not factoring in injuries. 

He needs to be like a Sproles type receiver throw him the ball in the flat. So he can use his speed. 

[superrep1967]

12 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

Are you seriously comparing the people that wanted to get rid of Hilton to the people that want Dorsett gone? Did I just read that right?   Hilton produced from day 1. He didn't need time to develop, at least not like this.   Dorsett is no TY Hilton.  Like AZColt and others have said, the only thing we can hope for is that he is struggling early like Reggie Wayne did, and turns into something special, but that's a long shot.  But comparing people wanting Dorsett gone to people who wanted TY gone is asinine.   

Peoples opinions change daily so what your saying prosperous.Mr Coffee wake up with a cup.  

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

I think he notices it but also thinks the other receivers are playing better than Dorsett. Which is objectively true, tbh fam 

That is kind of the way rookie receivers play. He came onto this team as a 3rd receiver behind TY and Dante. He lost the time to learn with a freak injury.

Too many want unrealistic results and are now searching for negative things to drag out being the team is not playing well.

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

That is kind of the way rookie receivers play. He came onto this team as a 3rd receiver behind TY and Dante. He lost the time to learn with a freak injury.

Too many want unrealistic results and are now searching for negative things to drag out being the team is not playing well.

Welcome to America. Produce immediately or gtho.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

Welcome to America. Produce immediately or gtho.

Truth to that comment for sure.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

 

1st) I wouldn't call Dorsett a wasted pick as he's shown some of what he's capable of on the field already, and he's going to continue to get better. He has an Antonio Brown type ceiling IMO. Maybe not on that same level as Brown, but he can be a similar receiver. Again...The kid can be a top tier receiver.

 

2) We've definitely wasted those other 2 picks, and even though I believe Dorsett will be a star, we still could've had.....

 

2015 Eric Kendricks

2014 Bradley Roby

2013 Xavier Rhodes

'Don't look back in anger, I hear you say......'

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

1st) I wouldn't call Dorsett a wasted pick as he's shown some of what he's capable of on the field already, and he's going to continue to get better. He has an Antonio Brown type ceiling IMO. Maybe not on that same level as Brown, but he can be a similar receiver. Again...The kid can be a top tier receiver.

 

2) We've definitely wasted those other 2 picks, and even though I believe Dorsett will be a star, we still could've had.....

 

2015 Eric Kendricks

2014 Bradley Roby

2013 Xavier Rhodes

Hindsight?   Well had we known in 2000 we could have drafted Tom Brady to back up Peyton Manning in the 5th round and he would have been our starter over the last 5 years. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Hindsight?   Well had we known in 2000 we could have drafted Tom Brady to back up Peyton Manning in the 5th round.   

Rhodes and Kendricks are not using hindsight stop using that word when people mention them. Tons of people knew they were better picks just cause dumb *** didnt pick them don't mean he was right. 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Rhodes and Kendricks are not using hindsight stop using that word when people mention them. Tons of people knew they were better picks just cause dumb *** didnt pick them don't mean he was right. 

I didn't realize you have absolutely zero sense of humor. My, bad. It wont happen again. Matter of fact I will never reply to you again.

[Colts_Fan12]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I didn't realize you have absolutely zero sense of humor. My, bad. It wont happen again. Matter of fact I will never reply to you again.

 yeah you were joking I'm sure 

[Hoosiernsavga]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Too many are either not seeing or refusing to see that Dorsett is still basically a rookie.

He was injured on a freak play and lost all that learning time.

He has good talent and has shown that at times.

Dorsett was injured in high school and in college at Miami. And now it has carried over to the NFL. I think its safe to say he is very injured prone.

I agree he has shown talent. But I dont feel confident that he can play a full season healthy. 

[AZColt11]

2013 and 2014, although Rhodes would have been a GREAT pick for the Colts, has absolutely NOTHING to do with Dorsett since he was taken in 2015.  I think if you are going to knock the pick, you need to have a better solution for what the Colts could have had that is relevant.  Really, there aren't many guys taken after Dorsett that have done much from a pass rushing perspective, which is the obvious achilles heel in Indy.  If you are talking about guys at other positions, say safety, I'd listen to the argument but I doubt they would have the kind of impact they so desperately need at pass rusher.  Imagine what just one "werewolf" (to use a Chuck-ism) would do for this defense!  Therefore, I'm focusing on those players, taken in the 1st 2 rounds after Dorsett.

 

Round 1:

#31 Stephone Anthony, LB Saints.........1 sack in 18 games

#32 Malcom Brown, DT Pats.............5 sacks in 23 games (better but not great for a 1st rounder, right?). 

Round 2:

#3 (#35) Mario Edwards, DE Oakland........2 sacks in 14 games last year; is on IR this year

#6 (#38) Preston Smith, DE Redskins........9.5 sacks in 23 games.  Pretty good, this one would be tough to argue against taking him over Dorsett.  I believe he was like the 2nd or 3rd best DE prospect as well.  Miss by Grigs there.

#7 (#39) Eddie Goldman, DT Bears.........5 sacks in 17 games.  So-so.  Been out for a month with a bad ankle.

#11 (43) Benardrick McKinney, ILB Houston........ Just 4 sacks in 21 games.

#12 (44) Hau'oli Kikaha, OLB Saints.........4 sacks in 15 games, is on PUP from torn ACL in June.

#13 (45) Eric Kendricks, ILB Vikings...........I like him, lots of tackles, but only 4 sacks in 20 games.  I'd still take him though.

#16 (48) Denzel Perryman, ILB Chargers.......3 sacks in 20 games.

#19 (51) Nate Orchard, DE Browns..........3 sacks in 18 games.  I believe he is a backup and is on IR.

#20 (52) Jordan Phillips, DT Dolphins.........2.5 sacks in 22 games.  Not much else.

#26 (58) Markus Golden, DE Cardinals.........10 sacks in 22 games.  VERY productive, wasn't rated that high though (#9 DE prospect by NFL.com)

#28 (60) Randy Gregory, OLB Cowboys........Has as many sacks as I have.  Suspended right now.

#31 (63) Frank Clark, DE Seahawks.........7.5 sacks in 20 games.  Pretty good value for where they got him.  However, not ranked in top 10 prospects.  Good find by Seahawks.

 

This is the first two rounds after Dorsett.  I think you can really only say maybe 3 of those guys, Preston Smith, Markus Golden, and Frank Clark would have helped the Colts' pass rush and been a better pick.  Of those 3, only Smith was highly rated at his position.  You could perhaps make an argument for Eddie Goldman or Malcom Brown, but it's not clear-cut by any means.  They aren't any more proven than Dorsett at this point in their young careers.

 

For the record, I wanted Safety Landon Collins (1st pick, round 2) in this draft.  He has been playing well of late, but wouldn't have done much to fix the pass rush problem, and I sort of like our young safeties right now.  Preston Smith is the obvious answer to the question, "Who should the Colts have selected with that pick instead of Dorsett?"  Highly rated at his position, he is proving his worth on the field, and has played in about every game and seems durable.  Other than him, I'm not sure you can find another guy that fits that mold.  Perhaps Markus Golden, but I believe he was projected in rounds 2-3.

[jimmy g]

4 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

Sure, here's another one:

 

What could we get from the 49ers for Luck?  I hear they need QB help.

John Bodie. Doubt if we could get Joe Montana...

[AZColt11]

57 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

John Bodie. Doubt if we could get Joe Montana...

Steve Young has only been retired for 17 years.

[zibby43]

5 hours ago, Mr Coffee said:

Are you seriously comparing the people that wanted to get rid of Hilton to the people that want Dorsett gone? Did I just read that right?   Hilton produced from day 1. He didn't need time to develop, at least not like this.   Dorsett is no TY Hilton.  Like AZColt and others have said, the only thing we can hope for is that he is struggling early like Reggie Wayne did, and turns into something special, but that's a long shot.  But comparing people wanting Dorsett gone to people who wanted TY gone is asinine.   

 

You're conflating things.

 

I'm not comparing the players or the players' skill sets.  I'm making a statement about the rash of "let's give up on X player" threads that turn out to look absolutely ridiculous later on. 

 

I'm pointing out that it's absurd to give up on a talented player because of an average stretch of play.  Dorsett has shown flashes of outstanding ability.  His body of work is still small because of a few injuries.

[coltsfeva]

First of all, who have we ever gotten from the Eagles recently that helped the team? Herremans? Hank Basket? Trent Cole?

 

Secondly, if the O line gets healthy and continues to improve, Dorsett adds speed to a potent offense. Teams can't double everybody so either he or Moncrief will see single coverage.

 

That being said, the emergence of Rogers, Street, Smith and even Swoop make a deal enticing, if it would be for AT LEAST a first rounder. 

[jskinnz]

8 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

Only way I'd do it is for one of Fletcher Cox, Jordan Hicks, Brandon Graham, or a high round draft pick (1 or 2). Dorsett is still developing and can become a top notch receiver.

 

Meanwhile, back on planet earth...

[DougDew]

Dorsett's fine where he is.

[DougDew]

Oh wait, I took the question as if it was serious, but now just figured out it was a tee-up for Grigson bashing.

[Coltfreak]

9 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

Not enough to justify getting rid of him. He'll be fine.

Agree....Especially when he get used correctly.   Moncreif wasn't a beast his second season either.  This is actually only Dorsett's rookie yr.  He only played about half the season last yr.

 

Once he is in the slot then we can see what he can do.  Obviously though he is not TY 

[coltsfeva]

We're much better with him than without, should (God forbid) T.Y. miss time.

[Valpo2004]

Maybe a 6th round pick.  

 

We have a UDFA rookie who's doing better then he is.  

[Dustin]

57 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Dorsett's fine where he is.

 

On the sideline? I agree.

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

Why would you give up on a first round receiver in only his second year in the league? Especially since he missed a chunk of last year.  It's way too early to be giving up on him.  

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Why would we want to further weaken a position that already is lacking depth?

And passing offense is the only thing that has kept us competitive. 

[coltsfanatic24]

I wouldn't trade him for a draft pick he still has potential to be a great WR. He's going to have some big games this year we just have to be patient. The offense isn't the problem with this team...

[Coffeedrinker]

I guess this is what they mean when they talk about "experience" (ok getting old).

 

A long time ago, the Colts draft a WR in the first round and at the time many people thought the Colts should have drafted someone else because they had bigger "needs" then a WR.  (And even those that thought the Colts should pick a WR were not happy that they choose this particular receiver).

 

Then he had a very quiet rookie season while some receivers drafter after him were lighting things up.  Even when he became a starter because of injuries he was still having a quiet rookie season.  The the start of his second season, he again was not a starter and didn't do much when he got on the field and many fans were blasting Polian for wasting a draft pick on a luxury pick... a guy who was not needed, fans talked about trading him to a team that needed WR help hoping the Colts could swing a deal to get as high as a 3rd rounder but most feeling is value was not worth it (I actually think someone said something about trading him for a BigMac (not a McChicken but that "joke" is as old and tired as a Sumner Redstone).

 

Basically after his first 17 games he had 34 catches for 450 yards and 1 TD.  Fans knew he was a bust and just wanted to get rid of him as fast as possible.

 

But Reggie Wayne eventually proved the fans wrong and ended up being a pretty good WR for the Colts.

 

After his first 17 games Dorsett has 31 catches for 478 yards and 2 TDs.

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, coltsfeva said:

We're much better with him than without, should (God forbid) T.Y. miss time.

 

Go find some wood and knock on it. NOW!

[BCoop]

Good post, CD. I was getting ready to mention the same.

 

No way I'm trading Dorsett right now. The idea of a trio of TY, Moncrief, Dorsett being together long term provides the Colts with a ton of security and flexibility. It allows them to focus on other aspects of the team (cough Defense cough). It also allows them to have two great options out wide even if we suffer an injury. If you get rid of him, you can bet the FO would be drafting another receiver early this offseason because we would have no real 3rd option and no depth whatsoever.

 

Dorsett needs time to develop. Reggie was the same way. I have faith that with his tools, work ethic, and access to peers that can teach him the same way Reggie taught TY, he'll be successful.

[OffensivelyPC]

11 hours ago, Andrew Luck's Beard said:

Sam Bradford?

I lol'd.

[OffensivelyPC]

9 hours ago, BOTT said:

Dorsett may become a good receiver, but unfortunately, the colts don't really need him.

Chester Rodgers really has been a nice surprise.  I have high hopes for him as a good 3rd WR.  I haven't paid a ton of attention, but he's played some on the outside nicely, yeah?  That allows us to keep TY in the slot so he can get free releases in 3 receiver sets.

[Colts_Fan12]

6 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

2013 and 2014, although Rhodes would have been a GREAT pick for the Colts, has absolutely NOTHING to do with Dorsett since he was taken in 2015.  I think if you are going to knock the pick, you need to have a better solution for what the Colts could have had that is relevant.  Really, there aren't many guys taken after Dorsett that have done much from a pass rushing perspective, which is the obvious achilles heel in Indy.  If you are talking about guys at other positions, say safety, I'd listen to the argument but I doubt they would have the kind of impact they so desperately need at pass rusher.  Imagine what just one "werewolf" (to use a Chuck-ism) would do for this defense!  Therefore, I'm focusing on those players, taken in the 1st 2 rounds after Dorsett.

 

Round 1:

#31 Stephone Anthony, LB Saints.........1 sack in 18 games

#32 Malcom Brown, DT Pats.............5 sacks in 23 games (better but not great for a 1st rounder, right?). 

Round 2:

#3 (#35) Mario Edwards, DE Oakland........2 sacks in 14 games last year; is on IR this year

#6 (#38) Preston Smith, DE Redskins........9.5 sacks in 23 games.  Pretty good, this one would be tough to argue against taking him over Dorsett.  I believe he was like the 2nd or 3rd best DE prospect as well.  Miss by Grigs there.

#7 (#39) Eddie Goldman, DT Bears.........5 sacks in 17 games.  So-so.  Been out for a month with a bad ankle.

#11 (43) Benardrick McKinney, ILB Houston........ Just 4 sacks in 21 games.

#12 (44) Hau'oli Kikaha, OLB Saints.........4 sacks in 15 games, is on PUP from torn ACL in June.

#13 (45) Eric Kendricks, ILB Vikings...........I like him, lots of tackles, but only 4 sacks in 20 games.  I'd still take him though.

#16 (48) Denzel Perryman, ILB Chargers.......3 sacks in 20 games.

#19 (51) Nate Orchard, DE Browns..........3 sacks in 18 games.  I believe he is a backup and is on IR.

#20 (52) Jordan Phillips, DT Dolphins.........2.5 sacks in 22 games.  Not much else.

#26 (58) Markus Golden, DE Cardinals.........10 sacks in 22 games.  VERY productive, wasn't rated that high though (#9 DE prospect by NFL.com)

#28 (60) Randy Gregory, OLB Cowboys........Has as many sacks as I have.  Suspended right now.

#31 (63) Frank Clark, DE Seahawks.........7.5 sacks in 20 games.  Pretty good value for where they got him.  However, not ranked in top 10 prospects.  Good find by Seahawks.

 

This is the first two rounds after Dorsett.  I think you can really only say maybe 3 of those guys, Preston Smith, Markus Golden, and Frank Clark would have helped the Colts' pass rush and been a better pick.  Of those 3, only Smith was highly rated at his position.  You could perhaps make an argument for Eddie Goldman or Malcom Brown, but it's not clear-cut by any means.  They aren't any more proven than Dorsett at this point in their young careers.

 

For the record, I wanted Safety Landon Collins (1st pick, round 2) in this draft.  He has been playing well of late, but wouldn't have done much to fix the pass rush problem, and I sort of like our young safeties right now.  Preston Smith is the obvious answer to the question, "Who should the Colts have selected with that pick instead of Dorsett?"  Highly rated at his position, he is proving his worth on the field, and has played in about every game and seems durable.  Other than him, I'm not sure you can find another guy that fits that mold.  Perhaps Markus Golden, but I believe he was projected in rounds 2-3.

The only reason Rhodes was brought up is cause someone said we should have picked him in 2013. The same poster said we should have picked Kendricks over Dorsett and he's right we should have. 

[Colts_Fan12]

The difference between Reggie Dorsett is Polian picked Reggie and numb nuts picked Dorsett. Polian drafted pro bowlers throughout his career Grigson drafts busts.

[aaron11]

dorsett has almost the same stats as moncrief did 17 games into his career

 

DM had one more TD  but he also had more targets, the yardage is really close

[Coffeedrinker]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The difference between Reggie Dorsett is Polian picked Reggie and numb nuts picked Dorsett. Polian drafted pro bowlers throughout his career Grigson drafts busts.

I am not a fan of Grigs and he is definitely no Bill Polian.

 

But I do want to point out that people were saying the same thing about Polian at the time, here are some of the things I remember being said and some were actually true.

- Polian had an obvious choice at QB but the rest of his draft was pretty bad.

- Polian wasted the James pick rather than taking the king's ransom that Ditka was offering to get Williams.

- Polian wasted a 1st round pick on a bust of a MLB in Morris

- Polian wasted a 1st round pick on a bust of a WR - Wayne

- Polian wasted a high first round pick on an undersized DE that wasn't even starting.

[DougDew]

Lets see.  In this tee'd-up Grigson bashing thread, a bunch of typical few worded ignorant whiffs thus far.

 

Reggie Wayne was constantly injured and on the bench for the first 2 maybe 3 years of his career.  He was taken at #25, and people wanted Polians head for not taking a defensive player...a CB was the need then.