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What was the biggest mistake the Colts have made since Luck arrived ?


digroute88
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4 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Here's where I forgive Ryan Grigson & grant him some wiggle room on Bjorn: He was a dominant DE presence for the FSU Seminoles. 

 

http://www.seminoles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=32900&ATCLID=209588452

 

It's not Grigs fault Werner failed to live up to expectations on the next level. His college accolades were bright. It was Bjorn's responsibility to prove he belonged at an elite level & remain there. All Ryan can do is gamble that Werner can continue to tackle & sack QBs well in the league. Admittedly, this leap of failed but the prospect had earned the right to be drafted by us at 24 in 2013 based of his FSU disrupting presence. 

 

A player must assume some responsibility for their own NFL shortcomings or diminished potential right? All a GM can do is make an educated guess on their learning curve at the pinnacle of professional football. 

 

I also like the Germany connection at the time on a multi-cultural, international platform. A perfect duo in concert with Luck as the NFL shield tries to expand it's brand outside the US as well. Don't forget that either. 

 

I will say draft is based on past performance but not sth uncertain in the future. It is sensible to draft players according to college history! Of course, teams like Broncos or Ravens they have excellent GM to draft players. However, i still think all messes were due to the Pretentious Isray   

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Drafting a 4-3 DE in Werner to play OLB in a 3-4 over a press cover CB in Rhodes was a huge mistake. That's when I realized that Grigson wasn't a good GM and needed to go. Although I like Dorsett I just didn't think we should have drafted a WR that high with how bad the defense was. I wanted Malcolm Brown. 

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19 hours ago, Dustin said:

Are you people serious when you say this? The amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to belive that Bruce Arians would steal a job from his cancer-stricken freind is unbelievable. 

 

Irsay: "Hey Bruce, we're going to fire your buddy who literally has cancer and give you his job, even though you're coming of a season where you won coach of the year and can basically have any open head coaching position that you want."

 

Bruce: "Wow Jim, I really appreciate that. There's nothing of would live more than to stab my buddy with cancer right in the back!"

 

I don't know how people even think it was a possibility. And considering the season that the Cardinals are having, why would we even want Arians? Do people not realize that his starting QB gets injured 2 or 3 weeks into every season, pretty much like clockwork? Andrew Luck would not be in better hands with Bruce Arians, despite what many people in this forum seem to think.

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19 hours ago, MFT5 said:

"keeping chuck pagano" I understand allowing a guy to grow but when you see how aggressive/proactive the Broncos/Elway has been, its gut wrenching ...

 

We HAD so much room for error w Lucks rookie contract, the Broncos built a stout team w Manning's contract and all we have is a team withering at the helm of Chucks idioms ...

 

The only reason I give Pagano the axe over Grigson is because he has shown the willingness to go for it, but w him being new his attempts are hit and miss

 

from a coaching aspect Pagano has shown nothing that suggest he can compete w even low tier coaches. He lacks innovation, he's rarely prepared and can't adapt. There's a reason we get curb stomped against Hoodie. They used the same game plan ~ 3/4years straight. 

 

Andrew will be 30 en 3 years ...

(let that sink en)

 

Football, especially the NFL, is ALL about coaching. Having a talented roster definitely helps, but pro-level coaching is what separates good teams from the bad. I know I'm speculating, but I'm 100% confident that Belichick could coach this team to 11 wins with his eyes closed. Not a doubt in my mind. He's done it with worse o-lines, lesser WRs, and without his starting QB.

 

A talented roster only gets you so far, just look at the Cincinnati Bengals. How many teams have drafted better over the past 7-8 years, maybe 2 or 3? Seattle, maybe Denver, and maybe Minnesota. But Cincy's roster is loaded with talent, yet they STILL don't have a single playoff win since 1990. It's all about coaching.

 

It's Pagano's job to have his team prepared and focused, which would go a long way in offsetting any supposed talent deficiency that this roster has. Penalties, drops, slow starts, that stuff's on the coach, not the GM.

 

Long story short, I agree with you.

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Allright, I can't stand it anymore I've got to say something . Arians has been given a far more talented team to work with with the Cardinals. His regular season record is about the same as Pagano . The Cardinals still haven't even made the SB with him.  The Colts were more lucky than good the year he won coach of the year when Pagano was out. I don't like Pagano either but this acting like Arians  is some kind of football genius is nonsense. The Colts were 6-3 last year without Luck, the Cards aren't exactly tearing it up this year either. Get off the Arians thing, there was no way they were going to fire a man who just battled cancer to replace him with a guy who the Steelers fired the year before. Not to say Bruce isn't a good coach, but please . I would say  more than half the posters on this forum were in favor of bringing back Pagano , now you are all surprised his teams have the same characteristics in his fourth or fifth year. 

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19 hours ago, digroute88 said:

Grigson probably would be the #1 mistake but some might say letting Arians go would be  . T;hey should have kept him as their head coach . The fans would probably gone beserk because of the overwhelming sympathy for Chuck due to his illness .

First of all. Bruce wouldn't have done that amd niether would Irsay.

 

2nd. Bruce arians,  while a good coach, runs the type of offense that gets his QBs hurt. He went thru what 4 or 5 last season and is already on his 2nd if im not mistaken this year. Cardinals have a better OL, if he'd still been here Luck's career would have been over by now

 

3rd. WhIle he was here, people on this very forum were screaming and crying about his style of offense. Almost as much as they are complaining bout chuck now.

 

4th: Isn't the cardinals record the same as the colts right now?

 

I like Bruce but he's not the coach we need or want. And it wasn't a mistake letting him take a position he'd rightfully earned. 

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13 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Football, especially the NFL, is ALL about coaching. Having a talented roster definitely helps, but pro-level coaching is what separates good teams from the bad. I know I'm speculating, but I'm 100% confident that Belichick could coach this team to 11 wins with his eyes closed. Not a doubt in my mind. He's done it with worse o-lines, lesser WRs, and without his starting QB.

 

A talented roster only gets you so far, just look at the Cincinnati Bengals. How many teams have drafted better over the past 7-8 years, maybe 2 or 3? Seattle, maybe Denver, and maybe Minnesota. But Cincy's roster is loaded with talent, yet they STILL don't have a single playoff win since 1990. It's all about coaching.

 

It's Pagano's job to have his team prepared and focused, which would go a long way in offsetting any supposed talent deficiency that this roster has. Penalties, drops, slow starts, that stuff's on the coach, not the GM.

 

Long story short, I agree with you.

I agree. The more I think about it the more sure I am that the problem is rather Pagano than Grigson. I know a lot of people say he's a nice guy but I just don't know. His speeches for me seem to be full of empty words and phrases. If he would be my coach I would't trust him fully, for me he seems to have too week of a personal power and presence to truly be able to motivate a team. With regard to his football IQ I always had a feeling that he's just too superficial to have a real deep football wisdom. If you look how even his players talk about him: none of them praises his football mind.

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2 hours ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

Drafting a 4-3 DE in Werner to play OLB in a 3-4 over a press cover CB in Rhodes was a huge mistake. That's when I realized that Grigson wasn't a good GM and needed to go. Although I like Dorsett I just didn't think we should have drafted a WR that high with how bad the defense was. I wanted Malcolm Brown. 

Stop with the 43/34 stuff.  The guy couldn't rush the passer....end of story.

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Clearly their are a number of solid choices to pick from. That in itself is a BAD thing. lol
  I would offer, an inability to properly evaluate athleticism,skill sets/talent as it pertains to the draft and FA.
 A BIG thing! 
 A Big off season ahead that is fo sure. Go Colts!
 
 

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Just not to keep beating on the choice of retaining both Grigs and Pags, but like some have mentioned Grigs had some great FA money to play with for several seasons. He bombed on that.

 

Even if you're a fan of his, I'd almost guarantee that alone absolutely could be seen as a fireable offense in the eyes of some nfl teams.

 

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14 hours ago, Gyworks said:

I agree. The more I think about it the more sure I am that the problem is rather Pagano than Grigson. I know a lot of people say he's a nice guy but I just don't know. His speeches for me seem to be full of empty words and phrases.

 

But, what about the rolling ball of butcher (butter) knives?

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Hypothetically, say we go on a mini run and scrape into the play-offs? It is very possible. This would mean 4 of 5 in the Luck era, and 4 of 4 with him playing every game (hopefully). Where would that put us in regard to the rest of the league? Top 5 I'd say. And yet everyone is after blood. 

 

Calm the heck down for a bit at least, and see this campaign through.

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1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

Hypothetically, say we go on a mini run and scrape into the play-offs? It is very possible. This would mean 4 of 5 in the Luck era, and 4 of 4 with him playing every game (hopefully). Where would that put us in regard to the rest of the league? Top 5 I'd say. And yet everyone is after blood. 

 

Calm the heck down for a bit at least, and see this campaign through.

 

Just slipping into the playoffs would be the worst scenario.  Even if we make it in we are not beating multiple top tier teams... I know everyone likes to say "if you make the playoffs you never know..." etc... But,  honestly we are just not equipped to make a playoff run this season. 

 

So by making it in all we really accomplish is making sure pagano and grigson get another season and we get a lower draft pick. 

 

The franchise would be much better off with top 5 draft pick than squeaking into the playoffs only to get knocked out and end up with a low pick. 

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The hole issue is there is not one mistake greater than others rather, the people in control do not know what they are doing. As long as that holds true every year is going to resemble the former year. You don't treat cancer with an aspirin. Answer this, why has the team fallen from the playoff years to today? There is no one issue answer.

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The O line is a good one....too much of a problem starting at Center.   Too much reliance on free agency.   The trade for Richardson did not help but if he had been a better player seeing as we lost a RB due to injury and thin at the time I understand why the deal was done. 

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On October 8, 2016 at 8:22 AM, li.jonathan1031 said:

It is sensible to draft players according to college history!

Yes, it is. A GM is projecting that based on Werner's ability to sack QBs at a well known university under the bright lights that this trend will continue. The eye in the sky meaning video tape doesn't lie. Now, if you wanna make the argument that Werner couldn't raise his play against elite competition on a professional level, that's fine. 

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A set of three

1) failure to build an OL that can adequately pass protect and give them some kind of run game

2) failure to have a good or top flight type RB that can make teams respect the run game

3) failure to build an decent pass rush that can get our D off the field where the O doesn't have to score 30-40 per game in order to win

 

You can lay these on GM or coach or both, but we have failed to help Luck out much at all as a team.  

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If Pagano and Arians are such great pals why couldn't we have at least offered them a co-head coaching position ? I think Irsay should have done everything humanly possible to keep them both here but then again I think Arians did a great job here . Wasn't he named coach of the year ?

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With the benefit of hindsight I would say T Rich and Werner have to be 1a and 1b, after that, free agents such Landry, Jones and Cole come to mind. Although I don't dislike the player I think the Dorsett pick could have been better spent. In fact Kelly is easily the best draft pick the Colts have made since Luck.

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