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Grigson says Luck's contract affects Colts Defense


lollygagger8
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6 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

I am reasonable which you are not......  I think it was a horrible coaching job today...   now put on your rose colored glasses and tell us all how great Pags and Grigs are

I am not the one who pulled your chain. You did that all by yourself.

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On 10/7/2016 at 3:07 PM, Superman said:

 

No, he didn't. 

 

The most the Broncos paid Manning in a given year was $19m in 2015, after his postseason bonuses. Second highest was $18M in 2012. 

 

The Colts are paying Andrew Luck $44m in 2016.

 

But the main difference is the Broncos drafted better than the Colts have. Part of that is Von Miller at #3, but the other part is Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, Danny Travathan, Sylvester Williams, Kayvon Webster, Bradley Roby -- all defensive contributors, mostly starters, on rookie contracts. 

 

I agree Elway has drafted much better, but we are talking about the first 4 years of Andrew Luck being here and the Colts defense being awful the entire time before we had to pay Luck the big money. 

 

Elway pieced that defense together with free agents. Aqib Talib 6 yr/$57M, TJ Ward 4 yr /$22.5, Demarcus Ware 3 yr/$30M, etc.  (Seems like a well thought out spending spree) 

 

Signing all of those key players on top of paying Peyton Manning, Emmanuel Sanders, Vasquez, etc. 

 

Grigson had 4 years to get the appropriate pieces around Luck. Elway did just fine with the same type of issues. 

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9 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

we are talking about the first 4 years of Andrew Luck being here and the Colts defense being awful the entire time before we had to pay Luck the big money.

 

No we're not. I mean, we can, and we'd agree -- Grigson didn't do a good job -- but that's not what we're talking about.

 

Quote

 

Elway pieced that defense together with free agents. Aqib Talib 6 yr/$57M, TJ Ward 4 yr /$22.5, Demarcus Ware 3 yr/$30M, etc.  (Seems like a well thought out spending spree) 

 

Signing all of those key players on top of paying Peyton Manning, Emmanuel Sanders, Vasquez, etc. 

 

 

The foundation of that defense was built through the draft -- Miller, Wolfe, Jackson, Harris, Trevathan, etc., -- but yes, Elway did a good job supplementing in free agency. He also made smart cuts, some of which he was blasted for, like Dumervil. Elway has done a great job, and he didn't take over a bad program. Xanders and McDaniels added some nice offensive players before Elway started running the show.

 

Quote

Grigson had 4 years to get the appropriate pieces around Luck. Elway did just fine with the same type of issues. 

 

And this is where I say you're not paying attention. First of all, Grigson's comments were specific to the future. If you want to hold his hand to the fire because of his past failures, that's fine, but let's not conflate two separate issues. His comments were about the Colts moving forward, in the new landscape, with Luck's new contract. And to build the defense through the draft, it's going to take time. There's nothing inaccurate about that, and it doesn't matter who the GM is, it will take time. Maybe another GM would do it better than Grigson, but he's the GM for now, and I don't think he's going anywhere any time soon. I could be wrong.

 

Second, Elway never had a $44m cash commitment to any player in one season. My comments about Grigson's limitations, beginning with the 2016 offseason, are taking into consideration whatever cash flow restrictions the Colts might have, not just their cap space. If you wanted to see the Colts GM -- whoever it is or might have been if Grigson were gone -- spend a bunch of money to help the defense along this season, you weren't being a realist. They stayed frugal in 2016 free agency, partly because they wanted to make sure they could absorb whatever obligations came with Luck's new contract.

 

They have a mulligan next year, due to the 2013 draft failure. There's no one to extend next offseason. The Colts will have ~$60m cap space, before they sign or extend anyone, and they don't currently have high cash obligations. If the Colts are ever going to make a splash for a FA or two -- not the mid level guys Grigson has tried, I'm talking a difference maker -- it will be next offseason. 

 

But aside from 2017, they won't be spending a bunch of money in free agency. Based on the comments from Irsay and Grigson, they'll be doing their best to build through the draft. I don't blame anyone for not believing their best is good enough.

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29 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No we're not. I mean, we can, and we'd agree -- Grigson didn't do a good job -- but that's not what we're talking about.

 

 

The foundation of that defense was built through the draft -- Miller, Wolfe, Jackson, Harris, Trevathan, etc., -- but yes, Elway did a good job supplementing in free agency. He also made smart cuts, some of which he was blasted for, like Dumervil. Elway has done a great job, and he didn't take over a bad program. Xanders and McDaniels added some nice offensive players before Elway started running the show.

 

 

And this is where I say you're not paying attention. First of all, Grigson's comments were specific to the future. If you want to hold his hand to the fire because of his past failures, that's fine, but let's not conflate two separate issues. His comments were about the Colts moving forward, in the new landscape, with Luck's new contract. And to build the defense through the draft, it's going to take time. There's nothing inaccurate about that, and it doesn't matter who the GM is, it will take time. Maybe another GM would do it better than Grigson, but he's the GM for now, and I don't think he's going anywhere any time soon. I could be wrong.

 

Second, Elway never had a $44m cash commitment to any player in one season. My comments about Grigson's limitations, beginning with the 2016 offseason, are taking into consideration whatever cash flow restrictions the Colts might have, not just their cap space. If you wanted to see the Colts GM -- whoever it is or might have been if Grigson were gone -- spend a bunch of money to help the defense along this season, you weren't being a realist. They stayed frugal in 2016 free agency, partly because they wanted to make sure they could absorb whatever obligations came with Luck's new contract.

 

They have a mulligan next year, due to the 2013 draft failure. There's no one to extend next offseason. The Colts will have ~$60m cap space, before they sign or extend anyone, and they don't currently have high cash obligations. If the Colts are ever going to make a splash for a FA or two -- not the mid level guys Grigson has tried, I'm talking a difference maker -- it will be next offseason. 

 

But aside from 2017, they won't be spending a bunch of money in free agency. Based on the comments from Irsay and Grigson, they'll be doing their best to build through the draft. I don't blame anyone for not believing their best is good enough.

 

Going to respond to just the bolded part because I mainly agree with everything else.

 

I understand the context in that he was pointing more towards the future of the team instead of past failings but in saying that it's going to take time to build, he's essentially admitting that the past five seasons have been unsucessful in building the defense (whether through the draft or free agency).

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2 minutes ago, Restored said:

Going to respond to just the bolded part because I mainly agree with everything else.

 

I understand the context in that he was pointing more towards the future of the team instead of past failings but in saying that it's going to take time to build, he's essentially admitting that the past five seasons have been unsucessful in building the defense (whether through the draft or free agency).

 

It's not like it takes an expert to see that they haven't been successful in building the defense. There are no drafted defensive players from 2012-2014 still on the roster, including a first rounder. The only defensive player remaining from Grigson's spending spree in 2013  is the one guy that everyone hated -- Erik Walden. He signed Art Jones in 2014, and to date, he's played 9 games as a Colt. The defense is worse now than it was two years ago. He has failed to build the defense, no question about it.

 

That's why I said let's not conflate two separate issues. On the one hand, the defense needs help because Grigson hasn't done a good job, and on the other hand, it can't be fixed overnight, no matter who is running the show. 

 

I will say, it's hasn't been five bad years. I think Anderson, Parry and Geathers are strong additions from the 2015 draft, and I think Green and Ridgeway can be good additions from 2016. We'll see how that goes.

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58 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's not like it takes an expert to see that they haven't been successful in building the defense. There are no drafted defensive players from 2012-2014 still on the roster, including a first rounder. The only defensive player remaining from Grigson's spending spree in 2013  is the one guy that everyone hated -- Erik Walden. He signed Art Jones in 2014, and to date, he's played 9 games as a Colt. The defense is worse now than it was two years ago. He has failed to build the defense, no question about it.

 

That's why I said let's not conflate two separate issues. On the one hand, the defense needs help because Grigson hasn't done a good job, and on the other hand, it can't be fixed overnight, no matter who is running the show. 

 

I will say, it's hasn't been five bad years. I think Anderson, Parry and Geathers are strong additions from the 2015 draft, and I think Green and Ridgeway can be good additions from 2016. We'll see how that goes.

 

I think the main issue people had with the comment is that he's making the excuse that building the defense will now take more time because of Andrew's contract while not owning up to the reason why it's happening that way in the first place.

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38 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

I think the main issue people had with the comment is that he's making the excuse that building the defense will now take more time because of Andrew's contract while not owning up to the reason why it's happening that way in the first place.

 

But he did. He said they've missed picks and have to do a better job. I don't know why he should be expected to publicly beat himself up about past mistakes every time someone asks, but he did acknowledge those mistakes. Then he turned his attention toward the future.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

But he did. He said they've missed picks and have to do a better job. I don't know why he should be expected to publicly beat himself up about past mistakes every time someone asks, but he did acknowledge those mistakes. Then he turned his attention toward the future.

 

I think the first part of his response was a bit disingenuous to say the least. I also don't think he should be expected to "beat himself up" about the past but he was clearly trying to make excuses for any possible future failures by essentially saying Luck's contract handicap's his ability to build the defense.

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7 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

I think the first part of his response was a bit disingenuous to say the least. I also don't think he should be expected to "beat himself up" about the past but he was clearly trying to make excuses for any possible future failures by essentially saying Luck's contract handicap's his ability to build the defense.

You sure assume a lot considering he never said anything of the sort.

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55 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You sure assume a lot considering he never said anything of the sort.

 

You're going to have to defend this.

 

Because it's EXACTLY what he said....

 

The link is here....    at the 3:45 mark is the comment.

 

http://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/media/play/27375889/

 

I thought we were done with this,  but you want to keep spreading falsehoods.   

 

If you don't think he said that,  then please feel free to write you think he said.

 

I'm beginning to think whoever you are,  you're related to Grigson.     Because your posts on this border on the fanaticism.

 

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Words can't even describe how bad Grigson has screwed this team up. We should be a top 3 team in the NFL right now. For those of you who ask "What about the first 4 years" good question. But we'll have a bunch of cap room this coming offseason. There's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't have a much better defense by this time next year. But like Supe said. Look at how Denver drafted. Hitting on guys in the 5th and 6th round and in the UDFA market (Marshall, Harris Jr, Barrett). Grigson traded away a 1st rounder and drafted a loser in Werner. Drafted bums like Thornton and Holmes. Like I said  we should have a top 3 team by now no matter how you look at it. I know a GM doesn't hit big on every pick, but man we could have Jamie Collins, Tyrann Mathieu, Brandon Williams, Bradley Roby, and Danielle Hunter on our defense right now. But there's not going to be an excuse for Grigson this offseason. We'll have around 60 mill in cap space, and no major FA to re-sign. (That whole draft class sucked) So......There's no reason we shouldn't go out, spend big, and bring in 2-3 impact players on D. Then we need to hit on our first 3 picks in the draft as well. But hey. IMO there's a good chance Grigson and Pagano wont be here by the new league year.

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8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You're going to have to defend this.

 

Because it's EXACTLY what he said....

 

The link is here....    at the 3:45 mark is the comment.

 

http://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/media/play/27375889/

 

I thought we were done with this,  but you want to keep spreading falsehoods.   

 

If you don't think he said that,  then please feel free to write you think he said.

 

I'm beginning to think whoever you are,  you're related to Grigson.     Because your posts on this border on the fanaticism.

 

I am beginning to think all you want to do is argue. I thought we were past that but I guess I thought wrong.

Grigson took the blame where blame was needed. He explained what he was working on.

Now where was he making excuses about anything. If you think that is what he said maybe you need work on your comprehension.

I am done with playing this argumentative game you seem to want to play.

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13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's not like it takes an expert to see that they haven't been successful in building the defense. There are no drafted defensive players from 2012-2014 still on the roster, including a first rounder. The only defensive player remaining from Grigson's spending spree in 2013  is the one guy that everyone hated -- Erik Walden. He signed Art Jones in 2014, and to date, he's played 9 games as a Colt. The defense is worse now than it was two years ago. He has failed to build the defense, no question about it.

 

 

Now we are finally on the same page. 

 

Image result for finally gif

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I don't understand why some are crucifying Grigs for doing Luck's contract.  If he didn't do it, another team surely would have.  By many expert's accounts it was a VERY fair deal for BOTH sides.  And if he didn't do it, then what?  Who plays QB?  Do we win ANY games at all?  I know there are some teams out there that would LOVE to have a cornerstone to build around like him.  Yes it is costly but with salary cap modifications it is doable.  The Colts did it with Polian and Manning.  Of course Polain hit on a lot of his draft picks too.  Yes they should have won more Superbowls but at least they got one.  Many franchises are going through the same thing and it works if done correctly.  The question is will Grigs?  That remains to be seen.

 

If he is putting blame on this deal for not being able to build a team around him then I would point to franchises like the Patri-ots and Steelers for doing just fine with it.

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11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You're going to have to defend this.

 

Because it's EXACTLY what he said....

 

The link is here....    at the 3:45 mark is the comment.

 

http://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/media/play/27375889/

 

I thought we were done with this,  but you want to keep spreading falsehoods.   

 

If you don't think he said that,  then please feel free to write you think he said.

 

I'm beginning to think whoever you are,  you're related to Grigson.     Because your posts on this border on the fanaticism.

 

 

I listened to the interview & it helped me understand a lil bit better .

 

My take is he & the coachs know they are accountable & they accept it it is what it is , While he acknowledges Lucks contract makes it tougher going forward he does point out there has been mistakes in the past IMO there was many wholes that had to be filled & its really not fair to blame all drafting issues on

 

Grigson IMO scouting needs to be improved our scouts have to do a better job its a team effort Grigson is the QB of team management but like our QB Luck these guys get more blame than they might otherwise deserve , 

 

It is very disappointing to lose been there done that many seasons as a COLT FAN which for all of us is short for FANATICS obviously we may all have differing opinions but the bottom line is we love our COLTS  . 

 

ADVERSITY is not new we have seen our fair share since 84 in 95 we reached a AFC Championship gave for the first time in :colts: history & lost on the last play of the game .

 

It took 18 . 4 years to accomplish what 12 accomplished in 3 years a AFC Championship game both lost to the Patriots both QB's had a questionable defense but Luck has done it with many fewer weapons while 18 lite up the regular season with astronomical stats 12 has not obviously given the supporting cast that I do hold Grigson accountable for but I also realize .

 

The bar is very high following Polian & Manning fans have been spoiled for a long time & expect instant gratification & IMO overlooking what it took to realize the opportunity of being in a SB it was not easy the Colts over achieved with the leagues worst defense in the regular season actually coming togeather in the playoffs to actually contribute & IMO become the reason we won a Lombardi . After many 1 & done in the play offs .

 

Grigson stated the blinders are on & the team remains focused on the next week & we as fans should put ours on as well while it has'nt been pretty & there is much to not like our Colts despite the losses did have the opportunities to win each loss could have been just as easily a win .

 

Try being a Panther fan right now the NFL is tough.

 

Our Colts have made stupid mistakes that end up in a flag they'v dropped many balls that should have been catches that is obvious to us all .

We have lost many players to injury but thats no excuse for those next men up .

 

ACCOUNTABILITY  is my take away from the interview Grigson excepts his now the PLAYERS need to step up , On the field catch the damn ball limit the penalties & protect LUCK & we will win these close games its easy to blame Grigson & Pagano but our scouts believed in these players its time they performed . 

 

Fanaticism is what drives us all without it we would not otherwise be on these boards or care so much . I wear mine as a badge of honor .

 

 

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Restored said:

 

I think the first part of his response was a bit disingenuous to say the least. I also don't think he should be expected to "beat himself up" about the past but he was clearly trying to make excuses for any possible future failures by essentially saying Luck's contract handicap's his ability to build the defense.

 

Saying 'we've missed picks and we need to do better' is disingenuous? How so?

 

I didn't think he was trying to make excuses in advance. I think he was saying 'we have to build the defense through the draft, and it's going to take time.' Not 'we might not be able to get it done because Luck's contract is handicapping us.' 

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6 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Now we are finally on the same page. 

 

Image result for finally gif

 

I'm glad, but I said that in my first post in this thread.

On 10/7/2016 at 11:57 AM, Superman said:

First thing Grigson said is that they've missed on picks. And that's the primary reason the defense isn't where it should be. Werner, no first for Richardson, D'Joun Smith, Hughes, Andrew Jackson, etc., etc. That's reason #1.

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Saying 'we've missed picks and we need to do better' is disingenuous? How so?

 

I didn't think he was trying to make excuses in advance. I think he was saying 'we have to build the defense through the draft, and it's going to take time.' Not 'we might not be able to get it done because Luck's contract is handicapping us.' 

 

I think the issue many have is that although he may have admitted his mistake..... Many fans (and media) feel like he kinda glossed over the magnitude his mistakes played in the Colts current issues.

 

Right or wrong I think people want to see him be harder on himself instead of what to many feel like are passing comments on his mistakes,  and than move on to talking about future obstacles; when many question whether he should even still be there. 

 

IMO he also often comes across as arrogant, which does not do him any favors. 

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24 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I think the issue many have is that although he may have admitted his mistake..... Many fans (and media) feel like he kinda glossed over the magnitude his mistakes played in the Colts current issues.

 

Right or wrong I think people want to see him be harder on himself instead of what to many feel like are passing comments on his mistakes,  and than move on to talking about future obstacles; when many question whether he should even still be there. 

 

IMO he also often comes across as arrogant, which does not do him any favors. 

Glossed over? He stated facts and admitted mistakes. He made no excuses and said outright he has made some errors.

I don't know what more anyone would expect?

Would it make some happy if he got on his hands and knees and begged forgiveness? How about a public hanging? Maybe cut a finger or two off? How about his first born?? Would that be enough? :thinking:

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34 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Glossed over? He stated facts and admitted mistakes. He made no excuses and said outright he has made some errors.

I don't know what more anyone would expect?

Would it make some happy if he got on his hands and knees and begged forgiveness? How about a public hanging? Maybe cut a finger or two off? How about his first born?? Would that be enough? :thinking:

 

Exaggerate much?  There is a level of taking the blame between basically  "oh I messed up," my bad"" and physical torture.   He could have went into more detail about how bad he felt about putting the the franchise in this position, and/or something along the lines of he still had some growing to do as a first time  GM.... Not just "I need to do a better job".  Like I said he comes across as arrogant, and that's not what you want when your competency is already being questioned. 

 

I have seen statements from leadership both in sports and other industries where the person accepts (or at least gives the appearance) that they are more culpable and shoulder much more regret than how Grigson came across. He basically should be doing the verbal equivalent of being on his hands and knees for the mistakes he's made.  I am sure a lot of people would love to get a "do over" if they messed their job and company up as bad as he did. 

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4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Saying 'we've missed picks and we need to do better' is disingenuous? How so?

 

I didn't think he was trying to make excuses in advance. I think he was saying 'we have to build the defense through the draft, and it's going to take time.' Not 'we might not be able to get it done because Luck's contract is handicapping us.' 

Supes I haven't read through this mess nor do I plan on it but the way it sounded in the media because many purposely took it out of context and didn't report the whole conversation (geez guess all media do this) was that the reason our defense isn't where it needs to be and we couldn't make offseason moves to improve this year was because of Lucks contract and that it will hamper that ability moving forward. Like you said its true....but its also true (as Grigson briefly admitted we haven't brought players in the past few years to help this problem either). In the media or sound byte tv/internet it sounded kinda whiney and weak of Ryan. Even after the Luck signing and even though its technically true it doesn't play well. I believe he could have choosen his words more carefully and it wouldn't have come out sounding this way. I know when I heard it (even though I've tried to defend Ryan) I rolled my eyes. Yes we know the whole truth and he spoke more about it but sometimes before the words come out you have to think how they are going to sound...and you have to have some more savy PR speak imo.

 

All in all I agree 100%...if this team is going to make it where we want to go we have to build better in the draft...specifically earlier in the draft where the high end talent lies. We have to do better in those first 3 rounds.....its hard to keep missing on guys near the top of our draft even if we have a few hits in the bottom....those bottom are nice to get but that should be a boom to your draft...not the core of it. I just want to see this team get more athletic especially on defense. Our lbs (rush and middle) are just so so below average. I think other areas will come together on the back end and in trenches but man on sundays its so very obvious we lack talent and explosiveness on defense. Hope that changes if Grigson is here next year.

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These things resonated with my views-

 

"We overspent on lower cost players like Gosder Cherilus, LaRon Landry, and Greg Toler. Their drafting was poor. They have yet to draft a pro bowler post 2012 and they whiffed on back to back 1st round picks. One of those picks was used on Bjoern Werner and the other used in an ill advised trade for Trent Richardson. And then topped off the bad decision making with the investments in Andre Johnson and Trent Cole."

 

"They still have enough in financial reserves to build a quality team around Luck, but if they are now gun shy about using it and cant fix their drafting , don’t expect the Colts to get any better any time soon."

 

Seems Grigs is trying to buy time in drafting better, and making only wise choices in F.A.  That will take time.  But paying Luck isn't a stopping stone.  Grigson just needs to do better, or Irsay will have to find someone who will.

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26 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

These things resonated with my views-

 

"We overspent on lower cost players like Gosder Cherilus, LaRon Landry, and Greg Toler. Their drafting was poor. They have yet to draft a pro bowler post 2012 and they whiffed on back to back 1st round picks. One of those picks was used on Bjoern Werner and the other used in an ill advised trade for Trent Richardson. And then topped off the bad decision making with the investments in Andre Johnson and Trent Cole."

 

"They still have enough in financial reserves to build a quality team around Luck, but if they are now gun shy about using it and cant fix their drafting , don’t expect the Colts to get any better any time soon."

 

Seems Grigs is trying to buy time in drafting better, and making only wise choices in F.A.  That will take time.  But paying Luck isn't a stopping stone.  Grigson just needs to do better, or Irsay will have to find someone who will.

It's that simple once you break it down.

IMO this fire everyone in sight and make wholesale changes only takes the Colts back to square one.

We may not be where we all want to be but we are for from the bottom of the league talent wise no matter what some think.

You are correct with the comment that Lucks contract is not stopping from improving this team.

Grigson said himself he needs to do better with drafting and make smarter choice across the board.

Assuming this team will not improve is a narrow minded point of view.

I have been accused of sticking up for Grigson because I don't agree with he has been as bad as some think. That don't mean I agree with all the moves he has made. All that means is finding the right players and putting it all together is not easy and Grigson has the same problems as a lot of GMs in the league has.

Too many think firing Grigson would be the answer. That could be true but it also could backfire and send this team all the way to the bottom and then start from scratch. I say lets show some patience and see how it works out.

Calling for Grigson to be fired does not mean there is someone better available. There are only opinions and everyone has a different one.

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1 hour ago, esmort said:

 

Exaggerate much?  There is a level of taking the blame between basically  "oh I messed up," my bad"" and physical torture.   He could have went into more detail about how bad he felt about putting the the franchise in this position, and/or something along the lines of he still had some growing to do as a first time  GM.... Not just "I need to do a better job".  Like I said he comes across as arrogant, and that's not what you want when your competency is already being questioned. 

 

I have seen statements from leadership both in sports and other industries where the person accepts (or at least gives the appearance) that they are more culpable and shoulder much more regret than how Grigson came across. He basically should be doing the verbal equivalent of being on his hands and knees for the mistakes he's made.  I am sure a lot of people would love to get a "do over" if they messed their job and company up as bad as he did. 

 

Not sure if you listened to the interview or not...

 

Mohr kind of asked a rambling, nonsensical question (didn't really ask a question, and he said that himself), and Grigson's comments were kind of a response, but not really, because there wasn't any real way to respond to what Mohr was saying/asking. 

 

I would agree with you if he had been asked why the defense isn't better after four years, why it's Year 5 and the OL still isn't good, etc. That's not what he was asked, though.

 

So, to the bolded, I don't agree. I guess it would make some people here feel better, but I don't see why it's called for how it would be productive. It is what it is, he said he's made mistakes, and said they have to do better. I don't see any benefit to him belaboring the point, especially not in this specific context. He actually did plenty of that at the end of season presser.

 

Last thing, I'm not very sensitive to arrogance. Some perceive it that way, I am not bothered by it. I certainly don't want someone who doesn't believe in what they're doing.

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:08 PM, Restored said:

 

Going to respond to just the bolded part because I mainly agree with everything else.

 

I understand the context in that he was pointing more towards the future of the team instead of past failings but in saying that it's going to take time to build, he's essentially admitting that the past five seasons have been unsucessful in building the defense (whether through the draft or free agency).

So what is your point? We all know what you are saying right along with Grigson.

Talking about it in every thread brought up does not change anything.

IMO Irsay is going to give Grigson the time to find the answers no matter how much whining and negativity that this forum can muster up. I could be wrong but only time will bring the answers.

I don't think the Colts are in the sky is falling and have fallen and can't get back up mode at this point like a lot of fans are. IMO that is a losers mentality.

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52 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

These things resonated with my views-

 

"We overspent on lower cost players like Gosder Cherilus, LaRon Landry, and Greg Toler. Their drafting was poor. They have yet to draft a pro bowler post 2012 and they whiffed on back to back 1st round picks. One of those picks was used on Bjoern Werner and the other used in an ill advised trade for Trent Richardson. And then topped off the bad decision making with the investments in Andre Johnson and Trent Cole."

 

"They still have enough in financial reserves to build a quality team around Luck, but if they are now gun shy about using it and cant fix their drafting , don’t expect the Colts to get any better any time soon."

 

Seems Grigs is trying to buy time in drafting better, and making only wise choices in F.A.  That will take time.  But paying Luck isn't a stopping stone.  Grigson just needs to do better, or Irsay will have to find someone who will.

Grigson isnt off to a good start if he is wanting to making wise FA acquisitions.

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14 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am beginning to think all you want to do is argue. I thought we were past that but I guess I thought wrong.

Grigson took the blame where blame was needed. He explained what he was working on.

Now where was he making excuses about anything. If you think that is what he said maybe you need work on your comprehension.

I am done with playing this argumentative game you seem to want to play.

 

I stopped posting,  but you didn't.

 

You just turned your attention to other posters who you disagreed with.    It's your never-ending crusade to defend the Horse Shoe.     As if you work for the team.     As if you're related to Ryan Grigson.

 

The man literally said with the investment in Luck's contract is slows the pace of building the defense.

 

And another poster said that, which you, in turn, said was completely false.     It's not.

 

It's the truth,  you just don't happen to like it.      So, you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to defend it.

 

Look at the thread,  the person doing the most arguing ---- IS YOU!      If you're not arguing with me,  you're arguing with everyone else.      The thread is SIX PAGES LONG!      How do you think it got there?!?

 

It's as long as it is because YOU'RE the number one defender of the Horse Shoe.    There are several posters in this thread who have called you out on it.      You're the one who has kept this topic alive,  not me.

 

I left.     I'm only back because I don't appreciate people who literally lie.     And that's what you did.

 

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I listened to that Jay Mohr/Ryan Grigson interview a 2nd time just to see if I was being too harsh on our GM. I wasn't. When Luck was sidelined with a lacerated kidney & shoulder problem & we went thru a slew of QBs starting with Matthew Hasselbeck & ending with Josh Freeman in 2015, our OL couldn't protect 5 QBs. Let me say that again--5 QBs. 

 

And what NFL GM keeps saying look at what we've achieved in 4 yrs? I'm sorry. I thought every season you were supposed to hit the reset button & everything before the current calendar yr is ancient history Ryan. 

 

The other thing I wonder about is what kind of interviewer goes from dropping the hammer on a GM criticism wise earlier in the week to kissing his backside now once Grigson is on the air. To go from what in the world are you doing to you've done great & I wouldn't change a thing? Huh? What? I think the producer of the show saw ratings were down & encouraged you to reverse your position, play nice, & get a much needed listener bump.

 

It's hard to take a guy seriously that flip flops like that with no real explanation as to why. 

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42 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I stopped posting,  but you didn't.

 

You just turned your attention to other posters who you disagreed with.    It's your never-ending crusade to defend the Horse Shoe.     As if you work for the team.     As if you're related to Ryan Grigson.

 

The man literally said with the investment in Luck's contract is slows the pace of building the defense.

 

And another poster said that, which you, in turn, said was completely false.     It's not.

 

It's the truth,  you just don't happen to like it.      So, you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to defend it.

 

Look at the thread,  the person doing the most arguing ---- IS YOU!      If you're not arguing with me,  you're arguing with everyone else.      The thread is SIX PAGES LONG!      How do you think it got there?!?

 

It's as long as it is because YOU'RE the number one defender of the Horse Shoe.    There are several posters in this thread who have called you out on it.      You're the one who has kept this topic alive,  not me.

 

I left.     I'm only back because I don't appreciate people who literally lie.     And that's what you did.

 

I guess you do have a problem with comprehension. I would like for you to take your argumentative attitude somewhere else please. I have no more time to waist with you.

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3 hours ago, esmort said:

 

Exaggerate much?  There is a level of taking the blame between basically  "oh I messed up," my bad"" and physical torture.   He could have went into more detail about how bad he felt about putting the the franchise in this position, and/or something along the lines of he still had some growing to do as a first time  GM.... Not just "I need to do a better job".  Like I said he comes across as arrogant, and that's not what you want when your competency is already being questioned. 

 

I have seen statements from leadership both in sports and other industries where the person accepts (or at least gives the appearance) that they are more culpable and shoulder much more regret than how Grigson came across. He basically should be doing the verbal equivalent of being on his hands and knees for the mistakes he's made.  I am sure a lot of people would love to get a "do over" if they messed their job and company up as bad as he did. 

I guess Grigson wasn't speaking specifically to you so he wasn't sure what you wanted to hear.

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I don't get involved with disputes among friends. All I will say is this: I respect both CC1 & NCF as intelligent contributors & I want both of them to continue to drop their vast knowledge on the forum. 

 

SW1 will always read your stuff regardless of squabbles or differences of opinion. We may not always agree either, but it's a mutual admiration society on my end fellas. Enough said. 

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13 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

I listened to the interview & it helped me understand a lil bit better .

 

My take is he & the coachs know they are accountable & they accept it it is what it is , While he acknowledges Lucks contract makes it tougher going forward he does point out there has been mistakes in the past IMO there was many wholes that had to be filled & its really not fair to blame all drafting issues on

 

Grigson IMO scouting needs to be improved our scouts have to do a better job its a team effort Grigson is the QB of team management but like our QB Luck these guys get more blame than they might otherwise deserve , 

 

It is very disappointing to lose been there done that many seasons as a COLT FAN which for all of us is short for FANATICS obviously we may all have differing opinions but the bottom line is we love our COLTS  . 

 

ADVERSITY is not new we have seen our fair share since 84 in 95 we reached a AFC Championship gave for the first time in :colts: history & lost on the last play of the game .

 

It took 18 . 4 years to accomplish what 12 accomplished in 3 years a AFC Championship game both lost to the Patriots both QB's had a questionable defense but Luck has done it with many fewer weapons while 18 lite up the regular season with astronomical stats 12 has not obviously given the supporting cast that I do hold Grigson accountable for but I also realize .

 

The bar is very high following Polian & Manning fans have been spoiled for a long time & expect instant gratification & IMO overlooking what it took to realize the opportunity of being in a SB it was not easy the Colts over achieved with the leagues worst defense in the regular season actually coming togeather in the playoffs to actually contribute & IMO become the reason we won a Lombardi . After many 1 & done in the play offs .

 

Grigson stated the blinders are on & the team remains focused on the next week & we as fans should put ours on as well while it has'nt been pretty & there is much to not like our Colts despite the losses did have the opportunities to win each loss could have been just as easily a win .

 

Try being a Panther fan right now the NFL is tough.

 

Our Colts have made stupid mistakes that end up in a flag they'v dropped many balls that should have been catches that is obvious to us all .

We have lost many players to injury but thats no excuse for those next men up .

 

ACCOUNTABILITY  is my take away from the interview Grigson excepts his now the PLAYERS need to step up , On the field catch the damn ball limit the penalties & protect LUCK & we will win these close games its easy to blame Grigson & Pagano but our scouts believed in these players its time they performed . 

 

Fanaticism is what drives us all without it we would not otherwise be on these boards or care so much . I wear mine as a badge of honor .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post Adonis1. Even I have to admit following a HOF GM is a tough act to follow. That's not an excuse either because the thresh hold to succeed is enormous. Fans don't give a darn about your resume. They expect you to draft ProBowlers, win division titles, & win Playoff games. When that benchmark has been set & you stumble, all hades breaks loose. Fans go hey, we're used to winning. What's the hold up? Don't mess with what we're used to man or you're gone. 

 

Yeah, winning a SB is not easy. A lot of teams never make it to the big dance. Well said. 

 

TBH with you, false start penalties & delay of game penalties inside LOS drive me bleeping nuts. They infuriate me more than dropped passes, blocked punts, missed FGs, & turnovers do because all they are are a lack of concentration. That's it. 

 

Look, I love LUCK but when he got that delay of game flag on Sunday in the 4th QTR, I lost it. Okay fine, our pocket protection solid in the 1st half literally fell apart in the 2nd half sure. I will grant you that. Mental errors that give your team worse field position just makes my blood boil. It's okay. I forgive you Andrew & I know we tackled poorly yesterday on defense which puts more pressure on you to score TDs. I get it. Just work on your clock management drills a little please. Thank you.  

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2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess you do have a problem with comprehension. I would like for you to take your argumentative attitude somewhere else please. I have no more time to waist with you.

 

Right.

 

The person who has done the most arguing in this thread --- that would be YOU --- just called someone else argumentative.

 

That's rich.......       but then again,  that's you.....

 

As for no more time to waste with me..................     Promise?!       :thmup:

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