Protesting this team

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Sorry to say it, but all those regular season wins only got us 1 SB in Manning's career here. They get you to the playoffs, but a lot of teams were getting them and getting to the playoffs. Since 1998, there have been 11 SB winners. Patriots 4 times, Denver 3 times, Baltimore 2 times, Pittsburgh 2 times, New York Giants 2 Times, Seahawks once, Saints once, Packers once, Rams once, and the Colts once.

 

1998-2016, we've had the best combinations of QB's of all 32 teams through that span. We've had the best opportunity to create a dynasty. I've started watching since I was 10 years old and Peyton got drafted. I had to watch as a kid and growing up past then as Peyton and the Colts had one and done years throughout the playoffs on the Colts and only got us one SB win in 15 with a top 5 QB of all time. Then Andrew Luck is in his 5th year and has no team around him and we're hoping for the same at best at this point. Most fans thought we'd get multiple SB's throughout his career when we drafted Luck in 2012, now most here would be happy with 1 before he retired.

 

I was winning every basic tourney in pokemon when I started playing it, but would lose the city, state and higher tourneys in the playoffs. Once I got an invite to worlds, I played in the tournament and took it as having fun. I went 2-5 and was embarrassed. After that, I worked harder than ever and started destroying people, winning in the playoffs in big tourneys, winning city, state, and a regional championship, and making the playoffs at nationals and worlds over the years. Something I could never do without putting in hard work and refusing to change.

 

Pagano isn't putting in that effort, he refuses to change his style, and that's why we continue to see the slow starts every game. It's a reflection on the team, it's a reflection on me, as a fan, that I support a team that plays like this and gives no effort, and it wears me out as a fan knowing what the game is going to be like every week knowing we will just fall behind. I expect more out of this team with Andrew Luck.

 

Jared....

 

Peyton Mannings first Super Bowl didn't come until season 9.      Luck still has time.

 

Other than that,   I like you too much to respond to this.....

 

[#12.]

I understand why some who haven't been a fan of this team for long wouldn't understand the frustration, but this team hasn't had anything approaching an elite defense since 1995.  Once since they arrived in 1984 - one year in 1995 - did they have the type of defense that Pats fans or Steeler fans take for granted.  You might have to go back another twenty years in Baltimore to find the previous elite Colt defense.  Very few times in 30 years have they even had an average defense. 

 

O-line - largely the same story.  They put together a respectable O-line for a few years with Manning, but even that line, at its peak, usually got pushed around when they encountered an elite defense. 

 

It's the same crap year after year, and now it's bottomed out at a comical level.  This roster is a joke.  You wasted Manning's career.  With anything approaching a reasonably balanced team, the guy would have four rings.  When Luck arrived, Irsay made all of these proclamations, saying things would be different with Luck.  Well, five years in, you are making an even bigger waste of his career.  When Luck is gone, this franchise might not see another Manning or Luck type QB for 3-4 decades. 

 

No worries, by year 8 - only three more drafts and 20-25 more free agent signings - we should have an average defense and average O-line.  Patience is what we need.  lol

[Myles]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Oh by the way you bring up tradition. Did you know the Browns have 8 league championships, 12 conference championships, 13 division championships and 28 playoff appearances. Football didn't start when you started watching.

You ever heard of Paul Brown? He is the only person a NFL team is named after. Now that is tradition.

Debatable whether those belong to the Ravens or Browns.

[Myles]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

YPeyton was a great workhorse, but those playoffs losses are more on him than the coaching. A QB of Peyton's intelligence, Talent, and acumen, should of made the SB 4 times with us at least. He did make it 4 times, just twice with the Broncos.

That is totally false.   He did what could be done with inferior defenses and coaching.   Any other QB would not have come close to what Manning did with the teams he had.  

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No one says accept.....    but we're in a thread that is talking about a boycott.

 

And we've got one guy who STILL can't get over the fact that the Manning-Era didn't produce another Super Bowl win.

 

At some point feel free to get over and move on with your life....

 

At some point a little perspective is needed....

 

I think....at.....some point.... 

 You need to stop using all these ellipses. You're killing my eyes here 

 

If you knew where I was raised you wouldn't be talking to me about perspective of calling me spoiled.  I don't even mean the fact that I was raised in a horrible place, in horrible poverty either. I can just point to the sports. 

 

Rosario Central is a club soccer team in Argentina (obviously based in the city of Rosario aka the birthplace of Messi), they've won the equivalent of a superbowl 4 times in 126 years of existence and those were way back in the day. They are usually awful, and I mean browns level bad. So much so that they get relagated to lower divisions occasionally. But it's not upsetting to watch, do you know why? 

 

Because teams from Buenos Aires get 90% of the league revenue, the majority of which is tv sales. And there's no salary cap in Soccer. Imagine if all the California teams got 90% of the salary cap and the rest of the league squablled for the rest. How on earth could you be upset that you're team isn't a contender when they get less than .5% of the money to spend and teams like Boca and river get 25% each? 

 

Now in the NFL, every team has a salary cap and it's all the same. Everyone has the same chance to be successful. Every owner profits massively, no matter how bad the team (simply from tv rights alone). So you really can't call me spoiled and think that I and many other fans don't have a right to feeling slighted when our team has all the money and opportunity to fix our recurring problems, yet do not. 

 

Id really love for you to go visit where I lived until I came here and quote me again calling me spoiled or saying that I lack perspective. 

[Yoshinator]

29 minutes ago, Myles said:

That is totally false.   He did what could be done with inferior defenses and coaching.   Any other QB would not have come close to what Manning did with the teams he had.  

The problem I have with this statement is that Manning and his team was in a completely different situation than Luck and his. Manning was dominating the regular season every year and also dominated every game. Luck falls behind almost every game and has to play catch up to win. Luck's team is more about bad coaching because the losing and falling behind is consistent to good and bad teams. Manning is a great regular season QB, he beats both good and bad teams in the regular season, yet loses to those same good teams (with home field advantage most of the time) in the first round of the playoffs. That's on Manning, not Dungy, Caldwell, or anyone else. Manning choked in the playoffs a lot vs teams he could beat in the regular season. He could beat the Pats sometimes in the regular season as well.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Debatable whether those belong to the Ravens or Browns.

No debate about it. They belong to Cleveland.

[Myles]

37 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The problem I have with this statement is that Manning and his team was in a completely different situation than Luck and his. Manning was dominating the regular season every year and also dominated every game. Luck falls behind almost every game and has to play catch up to win. Luck's team is more about bad coaching because the losing and falling behind is consistent to good and bad teams. Manning is a great regular season QB, he beats both good and bad teams in the regular season, yet loses to those same good teams (with home field advantage most of the time) in the first round of the playoffs. That's on Manning, not Dungy, Caldwell, or anyone else. Manning choked in the playoffs a lot vs teams he could beat in the regular season. He could beat the Pats sometimes in the regular season as well.

Wrong again.   This isn't really about comparing Manning and Luck.    The Colts were not a good team minus Manning.   The coaches pretty much let him be the offensive coordinator.   He scored early and took the other teams run game away allowing Freeney to tee off on the QB's.   That method does not work as well in the playoffs because teams game plan better.  

Defense wins championships.   Colts never had a good defense.   Stopping the run is needed in the playoffs.   The Colts could never stop the run.  

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Myles said:

Wrong again.   This isn't really about comparing Manning and Luck.    The Colts were not a good team minus Manning.   The coaches pretty much let him be the offensive coordinator.   He scored early and took the other teams run game away allowing Freeney to tee off on the QB's.   That method does not work as well in the playoffs because teams game plan better.  

Defense wins championships.   Colts never had a good defense.   Stopping the run is needed in the playoffs.   The Colts could never stop the run.  

Then explain why Manning could beat those better teams in the regular season and lose to them in the playoffs? Did the coaches of the good teams only try harder in the playoffs, or was Manning just worse in the playoffs? You tell me.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

No debate about it. They belong to Cleveland.

I tend to agree, but that is because the league made an exception.   The Colts still get the Baltimore history.   I guess it is a name thing, not a franchise or city thing.   

[Myles]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Then explain why Manning could beat those better teams in the regular season and lose to them in the playoffs? Did the coaches of the good teams only try harder in the playoffs, or was Manning just worse in the playoffs? You tell me.

He also lost to some of the same teams in the regular season.   He beat some teams in the playoffs that he lost to in the regular season as well.

I think the biggest reason is that teams plan their game more for playoff games.  

[Gramz]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Then explain why Manning could beat those better teams in the regular season and lose to them in the playoffs? Did the coaches of the good teams only try harder in the playoffs, or was Manning just worse in the playoffs? You tell me.

I was unaware it was a one man team.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

He also lost to some of the same teams in the regular season.   He beat some teams in the playoffs that he lost to in the regular season as well.

I think the biggest reason is that teams plan their game more for playoff games.  

Yeah, but the Colts were a 12-4 or 13-3 team most of the time with Manning at the helm. He lost to good teams sometimes, but most of the time he beat them. Something happened where we were one and done in the playoffs. I still think it was a mental thing with Manning.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Gramz said:

I was unaware it was a one man team.

Without him it basically was, you know what happened in 2011 without him.

[Gramz]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Without him it basically was, you know what happened in 2011 without him.

Yes, I am painfully aware of what happened  that season.  I just get tired of all the blame being put on him for playoff  losses, yet the wins were "team" wins.  

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Gramz said:

Yes, I am painfully aware of what happened  that season.  I just get tired of all the blame being put on him for playoff  losses, yet the wins were "team" wins.  

You won't get that from me. All the wins were his wins, especially the AFC Championship game where we beat the Pats. I consider him responsible for the wins and losses, because he was literally the team for us back in the day. He's worth 11 wins a season by himself.

[Myles]

13 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, but the Colts were a 12-4 or 13-3 team most of the time with Manning at the helm. He lost to good teams sometimes, but most of the time he beat them. Something happened where we were one and done in the playoffs. I still think it was a mental thing with Manning.

I think it was a case of the Colts facing superior all around teams in the playoffs.  

[southwest1]

4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Awesome! Now there's someone who can make Ice T out of lemons!  Perspective... I want on board!

 

 

"Hey Ice T! It's lemonade man!" Great commercial BTW. Ice T rocks. 

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Peyton and Brady are pretty even but their Defense and Coaching was much better, the Pats were just better and had HFA. The one season we had HFA look what happened we won.

2 names: TY Law & Troy Brown denied INDY 2 more SB appearances. So yeah, I concur with everything you said CBE. 

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think it was a case of the Colts facing superior all around teams in the playoffs.  

And we're back to me saying Peyton beat those teams in the regular season. So this isn't going anywhere.

[GoBlue12]

I have said this on another thread but the talking  heads rank our roster anywhere from the 24th to the 29th  out of 32 in the league.  They just might be right this time.

[southwest1]

I'm a little surprised this thread segwayed into a Peyton Manning discussion. It wasn't until after 18 went to Denver that I appreciated him more both in 2013 with Wes Welker & that high octane offense & his 2nd SB run because he knew when to run the ball vs Brock who once he started throwing the ball; he never understood the importance of take what the defense gives you every single time. 

 

I admire Luck sure, but it wasn't until we lost Manning's consistency winning 12 games a yr like clockwork that I realized how fortunate we were as Colts fans. Did Peyton suffer from paralysis by over analysis in the Playoffs? Yes, but part of that derived from the fact that The Sheriff knew he alone had to carry the Colts to victory 85-90% of the time. Look, I loved Freeney, Mathis, Edge, & Addai but Peyton knew he had to dissect defenses perfectly to give our team a shot at a bye week & a SB run. In 2009 alone, Peyton had to throw a ton of 4th qtr TDs that yr just to secure victory for us. 

 

Even when Ware, Miller, Talib, Ward, & Harris got Manning his 2nd SB, I didn't care because for all those yrs of carrying INDY on his shoulders; Peyton had earned the right to have a defense carry him across the finish line for once. He really deserved that after 18 yrs of dedicated service & excellence. I honestly believe that. 

[Myles]

33 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

And we're back to me saying Peyton beat those teams in the regular season. So this isn't going anywhere.

He also lost to some of those teams in the regular season. 

But you are right, we'll have to agree to disagree.  

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

I think....at.....some point.... 

 You need to stop using all these ellipses. You're killing my eyes here 

 

If you knew where I was raised you wouldn't be talking to me about perspective of calling me spoiled.  I don't even mean the fact that I was raised in a horrible place, in horrible poverty either. I can just point to the sports. 

 

Rosario Central is a club soccer team in Argentina (obviously based in the city of Rosario aka the birthplace of Messi), they've won the equivalent of a superbowl 4 times in 126 years of existence and those were way back in the day. They are usually awful, and I mean browns level bad. So much so that they get relagated to lower divisions occasionally. But it's not upsetting to watch, do you know why? 

 

Because teams from Buenos Aires get 90% of the league revenue, the majority of which is tv sales. And there's no salary cap in Soccer. Imagine if all the California teams got 90% of the salary cap and the rest of the league squablled for the rest. How on earth could you be upset that you're team isn't a contender when they get less than .5% of the money to spend and teams like Boca and river get 25% each? 

 

Now in the NFL, every team has a salary cap and it's all the same. Everyone has the same chance to be successful. Every owner profits massively, no matter how bad the team (simply from tv rights alone). So you really can't call me spoiled and think that I and many other fans don't have a right to feeling slighted when our team has all the money and opportunity to fix our recurring problems, yet do not. 

 

Id really love for you to go visit where I lived until I came here and quote me again calling me spoiled or saying that I lack perspective. 

 

Oh, Dear God.....

 

First you mention a salary cap and I think you're beginning to get it....

 

And then in the next sentence you complain that they're not spending the money.

 

You.        Don't.       Get.        It.

 

And I'm not sure you ever will.

 

Let's just avoid talking to each other.       We see the world differently.

 

[crazycolt1]

How did this thread go from a bash the GM and head coach to a Manning vs Luck issue?

[braveheartcolt]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The problem I have with this statement is that Manning and his team was in a completely different situation than Luck and his. Manning was dominating the regular season every year and also dominated every game. Luck falls behind almost every game and has to play catch up to win. Luck's team is more about bad coaching because the losing and falling behind is consistent to good and bad teams. Manning is a great regular season QB, he beats both good and bad teams in the regular season, yet loses to those same good teams (with home field advantage most of the time) in the first round of the playoffs. That's on Manning, not Dungy, Caldwell, or anyone else. Manning choked in the playoffs a lot vs teams he could beat in the regular season. He could beat the Pats sometimes in the regular season as well.

Harrison doesn't fumble v Chargers, Garcon in the Super Bowl, Basket in the Super Bowl, Vanderjagt v Steelers. Are they Peyton's fault? And the biggest choke of all time, quitting on the perfect season....

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Oh, Dear God.....

 

First you mention a salary cap and I think you're beginning to get it....

 

And then in the next sentence you complain that they're not spending the money.

 

You.        Don't.       Get.        It.

 

And I'm not sure you ever will.

 

Let's just avoid talking to each other.       We see the world differently.

 

You're just clueless. My problem is with how he spends the money. Not that he doesn't spend it. And I'll give Grigson that his contracts are pretty easy to get out of. Unfortunately we seem to need to do that way too often.

 

If you're gonna have the gall to quote my entire post then please respond to all of it. 

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

You're just clueless. My problem is with how he spends the money. Not that he doesn't spend it. And I'll give Grigson that his contracts are pretty easy to get out of. Unfortunately we seem to need to do that way too often.

 

If you're gonna have the gall to quote my entire post then please respond to all of it. 

 

Sorry......

 

I'm not the least bit interested in responding to the whole thing.

 

It's a never-ending rant that I don't care to respond to.

 

It's exhausting.         We see things differently.       We should avoid each other whenever possible.

 

[Peterk2011]

9 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

7th out of 32 with some other teams, when we've had Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck every year over that span. The best combo of QB's and the best opportunity, 1 SB win over 18 years with Manning and Luck. It's not great, it's horrible. We had a top 5 QB of all time and a once in a generation QB so far, and we're one of the pack. Shows how horrible the teams around them were and still are built.

 

No, its great. Having a hall of fame quarterback talent does not result in multiple SB wins automatically - even if the franchise is/was being run very well. The Packers are, and always have been a very well run franchise, and still, they "only" went to 2 superbowls with Favre, and won "only" one. They now have another hall of fame QB, who's been in the leage now since 8+ years, and they have 1 single SB run in his timespan. Its far from automatic, even if everything is going well. There's only a handful of dynasties in league history, winning multiple superbowls. It's once in a generation story ... even with a hall of fame caliber quarterback.

 

Let me tell you some other stats. Do you know how many QB's in history have multiple SB starts? Not wins, just starts? Well, the number is 19. And 8 out of them have 2 only starts. Not wins. Starts. And amongst these, there are QB's like Eli Manning, Plunkett, Dawson, Roethlisberger ... and Russell Wilson, who's been carried there by their great team. So, a number out of these 19 are perennial hall of famers themselves, but a very few of them are true generational talents. Only Brady, Elway, Montana, Favre, and maybe Bradshaw and Bart Starr fall in that category. Favre has 1 ring. Who have more? Well, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Elway. They all played for a dynasty. All were very lucky that their carreer and the peak period of their franchise matched in time. What about Manning? He's had probably the strongest competition of all during his carreer. He had to play his entire carreer in a conference where one of these dynasties peaked (Patriots). So even getting to the superbowl wasnt a "given". 

 

All in all, for me even the word "horrible" sounds insulting speaking of this 18 timespan. I feel blessed, that I could wittness this great period, even if it "only" resulted in 2 suberbowl appearances, and one ultimate win.

 

I have to add, that despite i feel frustration recently, and hate to see the controversies we see nowadays, I still feel blessed to wittness the Luck era as well. The Colts have been in the playoff 3 years in a row, played one conference final. That is more than most fans of most other franchises can ever hope. And even if things look bad now, Luck is still young, so no matter how long will it take, the Colts will be competitive again eventually, and will be competitive for probably another decade. Which means that - including Peyton's era - i am a fan of a franchise, which was / is / will be competitive during almost my entire adult life. Holy crap .... do I need to say again I feel blessed?

 

[coach kline]

On Monday, October 03, 2016 at 0:17 PM, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

My biggest question is who do you want Irsay to hire? Give me a list of candidates for HC and GM that you believe could make this team a contender.

How about Peyton

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, relkins said:

How about Peyton

 

 

I mean, sure, Elway does a fantastic job in Denver, he's probably the best GM in the league right now. But there's no guarantee Peyton would have that same success. I don't think he'd be bad at it, but it would probably take some time for him to "get it," and patience is pretty thin with this fanbase right now. Plus, I kind of feel like if he were to ever become a GM, it would probably be for New Orleans or Tennessee. As amicable as Irsay tried to make Manning's release, I suspect there may still be somewhat of a grudge between the two of them.

[coach kline]

18 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I mean, sure, Elway does a fantastic job in Denver, he's probably the best GM in the league right now. But there's no guarantee Peyton would have that same success. I don't think he'd be bad at it, but it would probably take some time for him to "get it," and patience is pretty thin with this fanbase right now. Plus, I kind of feel like if he were to ever become a GM, it would probably be for New Orleans or Tennessee. As amicable as Irsay tried to make Manning's release, I suspect there may still be somewhat of a grudge between the two of them.

I prefer him as head coach