This team seems to have a culture problem.

[colts8718]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

This is nonsense.

 

1) Who would you have replaced Grigson with in 2016?

2) Take Grigson's name off of the Colts offseason, and grade it. Now tell me it reflects incompetence. You really can't.

3) The bolded is not based in fact, at all, and has pretty much been soundly refuted.

 

It's amazing to me how little it takes for a fanbase to turn on EVERYONE when things aren't going well.

You must be related to Irsay smell the coffee and wake up

[SilentHill]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

Again I ask, what kind of turnaround did you really expect in 2016? They hit the reset button, then added foundational pieces on the OL (ironically, it's the vets who have looked shaky). The roster had serious issues, and they can't all be fixed at once, as annoying as that is to fans.

 

 

You know, I'm fine if the Colts go out and get outplayed due to facing superior talent like we did in the Denver game, but we should be 3-1 right now. Only because of failed execution, poor planning and poor coaching we are 1-3.

[SilentHill]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This team doesn't have a culture problem........   Dear God!

 

This team has a talent deficit problem,  and a problem keeping their players healthy.

 

I'm not sure why every arm chair quarterback has to over think this,  but they do......

 

Remember how posters here objected to ESPN and NFL.com and other media outlets saying the Colts don't have a talented roster?      That really bothered people here....

 

Well,  guess what.......     they were right.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

 

If you really think it's a talent problem then why are we destroying teams with our hurry-up offense late in games? It's clearly a preparation, discipline, culture problem.

 

I'm not saying the roster is uber talented, but if we were prepared and disciplined we would be 3-1 right now instead of 1-3.

[tfunky14]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This team doesn't have a culture problem........   Dear God!

 

This team has a talent deficit problem,  and a problem keeping their players healthy.

 

I'm not sure why every arm chair quarterback has to over think this,  but they do......

 

Remember how posters here objected to ESPN and NFL.com and other media outlets saying the Colts don't have a talented roster?      That really bothered people here....

 

Well,  guess what.......     they were right.

 

This might be the most sensible write up on here. 

[tfunky14]

1 minute ago, SilentHill said:

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

 

If you really think it's a talent problem then why are we destroying teams with our hurry-up offense late in games? It's clearly a preparation, discipline, culture problem.

 

I'm not saying the roster is uber talented, but if we were prepared and disciplined we would be 3-1 right now instead of 1-3.

No,  because teams are playing prevent then....

[SilentHill]

3 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

No,  because teams are playing prevent then....

 

Disagree, they know what's coming, they've all seen the tape, they all know about Luck's GW drive history, and every team struggles to stop it. It's not a coincidence.

[Myles]

After watching the Colts, any one who defends:

 

Grigson is crazy.   One potentially good draft does not make up for all his bad ones.   I also think his (possibly) good draft is somewhat negated by his poor FA signings.  

 

Pagano is blind.   This guy is not a good head coach.   I think he should be a defensive coordinator for a team.  

[The Old Crow]

As far as the " culture of losing " it can definitely happen if it goes on too long . Some examples would be the Colts of the late 70's, early 80's, or the Orioles 14 years of losing . If it got to that point, then you lose fan base, and even worse , good free agents don't want to come. 

 

Here, you have a franchise QB in Luck, and possibly a couple of bad years in terms of record. I think it is fair to say Irsay made a mistake extending Grigson and Pagano. 

 

This is is only my opinion but I think Irsay sees a younger version of himself in Grigson, and made the decision on Pagano based on him being a nice guy. 

 

The bottom line is there is plenty of time to reverse course and fix things. Irsay has plenty of money, give those two guys a nice package , and find an up and coming GM and coach. You don't want to waste the prime of Luck's career with poor talent around him. 

[Indeee]

14 hours ago, SilentHill said:

I, along with everyone else (I'm sure) are sick and tired of seeing this team come out flat, and intentionally try to be a team that that are not. Originally I thought it was Pep, not making offensive game plans that played to our strengths, but it all seems like too much of a coincidence that Chud is having the same problems. We are not a smash mouth football team, we don't have the personnel for it, and we will not have the personnel for a LONG time with Grigson drafting. Part of me thinks that the coaches show the 2013 game footage against SF every week, saying this is who we want to be.

 

You look at other teams in the NFL, and they are going out there and mixing things up, and playing to the strengths of their team, and even winning tough games with backup players, but we continually fail to look prepared, and continually execute the wrong game plan, while falling behind early, only for that light bulb moment going off when it's almost too late.

 

I think the entire organization of coaches and front office that surround this football team are much too soft. I feel like no one is held accountable for their mistakes, and it's one of those "we'll get em next week X Player, don't worry about it, just focus on the next one" I always go back to it, that when Reggie signed with the Patriots he left shortly thereafter because he wasn't having "fun" and it was too much like a business. That has always stood out to me as a HUGE red flag. I liken this to the SF 49ers pre and post Harbaugh, that is what a winning culture and a good coach can do, that team missed the playoffs 8 years in a row, Harbaugh came in, they were 6-10 in the previous season (Where the Colts are headed) the next season they went 13-3 and went to the conference championship team. next year 11-4-1 and Superbowl, Next year 12-4 and NFL title game, The next season they went 8-8 and I believe it was really the GM who messed up here, having a Grigson like run in FA, and an exposed QB. and they have fallen into the abyss without him ever since.The moral of the story, is that some teams bring in those guys with that winning culture, something the Colts could use a little bit of.

I actually did not read this and just posted a similar rant. In essence my point was you can't "Build a Monster" if you don't have "Monsters" leading you. I'm tired of soft mannered coaching staffs.

[RollerColt]

We need accountability on the field and off of it. I see Andrew standing there taking the hits, (some of is deserved, some of it is not), but hardly anyone else. 

 

Our players shouldn't feel safe with their jobs. Right now they are playing as if they have nothing to lose, when they should be playing as if they have everything to lose! 

 

Consistently committing stupid penalties? You're benched! 

 

Consistently dropping easy passes? Benched!

 

Consistently missing tackles? Goodbye! 

 

This is type of culture we need. It lights a fire under people's behinds and makes them better. Or worse. And if worse, then they don't play for us anymore. 

 

The goal should always be the Superbowl Title. Not the division title. This isn't 2A high school football. This is supposed to be professional...

 

 

[CoachLite]

14 hours ago, SilentHill said:

I, along with everyone else (I'm sure) are sick and tired of seeing this team come out flat, and intentionally try to be a team that that are not. Originally I thought it was Pep, not making offensive game plans that played to our strengths, but it all seems like too much of a coincidence that Chud is having the same problems. We are not a smash mouth football team, we don't have the personnel for it, and we will not have the personnel for a LONG time with Grigson drafting. Part of me thinks that the coaches show the 2013 game footage against SF every week, saying this is who we want to be.

 

You look at other teams in the NFL, and they are going out there and mixing things up, and playing to the strengths of their team, and even winning tough games with backup players, but we continually fail to look prepared, and continually execute the wrong game plan, while falling behind early, only for that light bulb moment going off when it's almost too late.

 

I think the entire organization of coaches and front office that surround this football team are much too soft. I feel like no one is held accountable for their mistakes, and it's one of those "we'll get em next week X Player, don't worry about it, just focus on the next one" I always go back to it, that when Reggie signed with the Patriots he left shortly thereafter because he wasn't having "fun" and it was too much like a business. That has always stood out to me as a HUGE red flag. I liken this to the SF 49ers pre and post Harbaugh, that is what a winning culture and a good coach can do, that team missed the playoffs 8 years in a row, Harbaugh came in, they were 6-10 in the previous season (Where the Colts are headed) the next season they went 13-3 and went to the conference championship team. next year 11-4-1 and Superbowl, Next year 12-4 and NFL title game, The next season they went 8-8 and I believe it was really the GM who messed up here, having a Grigson like run in FA, and an exposed QB. and they have fallen into the abyss without him ever since.The moral of the story, is that some teams bring in those guys with that winning culture, something the Colts could use a little bit of.

 

Thank you! This is what I've been saying for several years.

[CoachLite]

11 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

The team has a wining culture. Especially under Irsay. The most wins in a decade. I'm willing to concede now, the team lacks talent and coaching can be called into question. It's sucks, we had some good years with Luck. I thought we did well last year considering we lost our QB. I figured Luck would come back healthy and go back to winning. This is really terrible play but I don't think it's a culture issue 

 

This team had a winning culture.

[azcolt]

It was again pointed out in this thread that if we as fans can't suggest GM replacements for Grigson, then we probably shouldn't be calling for his head.  Good point. I don't know any names of up and coming GM candidates, so I will never again criticize Grigson. I also don't know the names of any up and coming hc candidates, so Chuck is now OK as far as I'm concerned. I have also never played football at a high level and definitely not in the NFL, so criticizing the Colts roster is now off limits as well. Same logic applies to criticizing Jim Irsay and the Indy press.

[lollygagger8]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

This is nonsense.

 

1) Who would you have replaced Grigson with in 2016?

2) Take Grigson's name off of the Colts offseason, and grade it. Now tell me it reflects incompetence. You really can't.

3) The bolded is not based in fact, at all, and has pretty much been soundly refuted.

 

It's amazing to me how little it takes for a fanbase to turn on EVERYONE when things aren't going well.

 

1) A cardboard cutoff of a monkey holding a football. 

2) You are conveniently forgetting about the previous drafts (of which we don't even have most players on the team anymore)  

3) That's why he said reportedly. Relax dude. 

 

Things aren't going well because the culture of the team is poor. 

Heck, you could even replace the word "culture" with "coaching" 

 

[The Old Crow]

14 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

1) A cardboard cutoff of a monkey holding a football. 

2) You are conveniently forgetting about the previous drafts (of which we don't even have most players on the team anymore)  

3) That's why he said reportedly. Relax dude. 

 

Things aren't going well because the culture of the team is poor. 

Heck, you could even replace the word "culture" with "coaching" 

 

Eliot Wolf-  Director of Football Operations.  GB Packers New Colts GM

 

Frank Reich. Off coordinator Eagles. New Colts head coach

 

I'm a Ravens fan trying to help you guys !

 

 

[krunk]

10 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

 

WHOA now, that's some dangerous thinking! You could get lynched for saying that.

I think the community can agree we're better off sticking with what we're doing and hope it all works itself out for another year or two... or three?...

 

No, I still say what we need is a tough head coach with a fiery attitude who pushes the team. And we wonder why we played better with Bruce Arians!

What Reggie meant was it wasn't "Fun" having to learn a whole new offense with nothing to correlate to on top of the fact that he knew he couldn't play anymore.  Didn't have much if anything to do with the business like environment getting to him.  Did you notice Reggie didn't try to play for anyone else from that point?  He could have attempted to play for any other team that he though had a looser environment if that were really the issue.

[OHColtfan]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Again, dwelling on the past. Irsay knows that Grigson failed to fix the OL in four years, yet gave him an extension. Grigson spent half of his draft picks on OL. He even drafted a center at #18 after spending the better part of three years saying he doesn't believe you need to spend big resources on a center. What do you think Irsay's directive was? Can you guess?

 

I never suggested Grigson deserved to be around. I was ready for him to go. But the decision was made, and I think we should objectively evaluate what he's done, especially since Irsay decided to give him another go round. Doesn't matter whether he deserved it, he got it. Now what's he going to do with it?

 

So far, the team building strategy has obviously been adjusted, and if you can't see the foundation they're trying to lay, then you're not paying attention. 

Agree that he should have been gone, and I am paying attention... to a team that says it's not rebuilding, but set on winning. If your perspective is that we are rebuilding, laying a new foundation for this team, then I guess we are looking at the team from different perspectives. From everything I saw and heard, this was a team about winning, not starting over. The idea of continuity was to build and win, not go backwards.  If we are rebuilding, as you say, then we are in more trouble than anyone thinks, because we have a GM that can't draft worth a crap and can't spot FA talent very well either. If we are stuck with him to "lay a foundation" for the next few years, then we are on sinking sand not solid ground

[Mr Coffee]

10 hours ago, #12. said:

Culture problem, whatever...  This situation is beyond stale.

 

Four games into this season, if Irsay could redo it, is there any way in hell he would re-sign Grigson and Chuck? 

I would hope not, but I think we were all shocked that he signed both of them to extensions in the first place, so who knows?

[MSColtsFan]

I do agree about one element of 'culture', and that is the lack of fundamentals and lack of discipline.  Those seem to have become culturally acceptable.  Tackling is horrible on this team.  Penalties.  Execution.  Fundamentals.  I think the Colts are sloppy.  I view that as a lack of leadership and accountability.  And those things are cultural in my experience.  I don't know who in the locker room players listen to.  Wayne is gone.  Mathis might try, Luck I don't think leads by rah-rah.  And I sure don't see it in the coaches.  I think on top of everything else going sideways, there may well be a void in leadership to establish the culture at all. 

[krunk]

If we can get some moves made whether that be schematically or via trade made to get better impact out of our linebackers I'd say we have a chance.  If we can't then I'm not very optimistic much will improve to be honest.  Tackling and pass rush is the major key.  For the most part I think the secondary is okay and I think the D line is okay.  The linebackers however are a problem that is killing this defense.  

[Mr Coffee]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

After watching the Colts, any one who defends:

 

Grigson is crazy.   One potentially good draft does not make up for all his bad ones.   I also think his (possibly) good draft is somewhat negated by his poor FA signings.  

 

Pagano is blind.   This guy is not a good head coach.   I think he should be a defensive coordinator for a team.  

While I agree that Pagano is a poor head coach, I also wonder if we really know how good of a DC he really was also.   He had two former DPOYs (Ed Reed and Ray Lewis) when he was DC for Baltimore.  That Baltimore defense was STACKED.  

[Mr Coffee]

1 hour ago, azcolt said:

It was again pointed out in this thread that if we as fans can't suggest GM replacements for Grigson, then we probably shouldn't be calling for his head.  Good point. I don't know any names of up and coming GM candidates, so I will never again criticize Grigson. I also don't know the names of any up and coming hc candidates, so Chuck is now OK as far as I'm concerned. I have also never played football at a high level and definitely not in the NFL, so criticizing the Colts roster is now off limits as well. Same logic applies to criticizing Jim Irsay and the Indy press.

Haha, your sarcasm is about as subtle as a jackhammer.

[lollygagger8]

4 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

While I agree that Pagano is a poor head coach, I also wonder if we really know how good of a DC he really was also.   He had two former DPOYs (Ed Reed and Ray Lewis) when he was DC for Baltimore.  That Baltimore defense was STACKED.  

 

Yes it was. I think Ozzie is the best GM in the biz. 

[tncoltsfan57]

Unless we want to continue our "Participant Award" mentality we need to clean house...then and only then can we begin to build a true "monster". This monster now has no teeth and we should always listen to the fan base they always know more about the team than the "talking heads". I agree with just about every negative review here on the team, management, coaching and ownership. These comments are brutally honest and correct. We are a bad team with no solution on the horizon, how we ever rewarded the current coaching and management with an extension is beyond belief. Just trying to be optimistic and staying positive is the problem with our culture at the heart, it's about winning plain a simple, that's why there is a scoreboard and they keep score. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Jeff Hilton
Didn't mean to mention another poster in my post.

[Myles]

1 hour ago, azcolt said:

 I don't know any names of up and coming GM candidates, so I will never again criticize Grigson. I also don't know the names of any up and coming hc candidates, so Chuck is now OK as far as I'm concerned. I have also never played football at a high level and definitely not in the NFL, so criticizing the Colts roster is now off limits as well. Same logic applies to criticizing Jim Irsay and the Indy press.

 

Good stuff.   I hired some contractors to do some remodeling at my house.   They were doing a crappy job.   (Used cardboard for shims, broke a window, didn't mud behind drywall tape).  I kicked them out.   That's what you do when someone is doing a terrible job.   It's a big world, finding someone better is not that hard.  It's staying with the status quo which is easy. 

[CoachLite]

There are many knowledgeable people in football - including existing and ex-GMs - that can be hired to consult on future GM candidates. Specifically, there are people that really understand both the business side of football AND the talent evaluation side. It takes a lot of conflicting opinions to understand what makes a good candidate. Confirmation bias is a deadly thing.

[Superman]

11 hours ago, stitches said:

1. do you trust Grigson to build up this team again? If yes, what gives you the confidence?

2. do you trust Pagano to coach up the team that Grigson gives him?  If yes, what gives you the confidence?

 

1) Doesn't matter. Irsay does.

2) Doesn't matter. Irsay does. 

 

If you really want my opinion, I trust Grigson more than Pagano right now, because I think this team is underperforming on the field due to mistakes and missed opportunities. That's not a ringing endorsement for Grigson, though.

 

My point, though, is that we shouldn't be ignoring the fact that Irsay decided to keep Grigson. I don't believe that decision was made on the basis of Grigson's first four years, so us continuing to complain about those first four years is pointless and only adds to the aggravation.

 

Quote

 

To me the answer to both those questions is a resounding NO. I don't. I see the change of strategy. It's irrefutable. We went from getting old FA vets to focusing on the draft. Simple change of strategy won't make this team great again, though. You need good execution of the strategy and the right decisions. And you need good coaching to solidify the good decision of the GM. What gives you confidence that Grigson and Pagano are the people to do those two very simple yet crucial parts of executing the new strategy? I honestly can't think of a reason why anybody would have any confidence in either of them...

And herein lies the reason why I want both replaced. I just don't trust them and I don't want another year of the rebuild wasted on PROVEN bad decision-makers and PROVEN bad coaching. .

 

 

First bolded, how has the new strategy been executed so far? I'm fine with the Colts offseason, when viewed from the perspective of what they did to get better and fix some problem spots; the biggest problem spot was addressed in the manner of killing an ant with an atom bomb, and it's about time. We won't know how it works out for a couple years, but I'm optimistic.

 

Second bolded, first, Grigson and Pagano are different. They're probably tied at the hip, using Irsay's words, but I'm fine with what Grigson has done. I think he had a good draft, and made sensible FA moves. And I think he had a pretty good 2012 offseason, a decent 2014 offseason, and a decent 2015 offseason. Doesn't mean he couldn't have done better, but I believe the stink on Grigson is mostly about 2013; I don't think he's as bad as popular opinion says. (I could name several moves Grigson has made that show he has some ability to build a roster.) Again, not an endorsement, just rejecting the extreme.

 

And again, if we reset the counter on Grigson, which Irsay appears to have done, then there's not a lot to complain about. What's happening is frustration over the team losing these games is reverting to the same old 'everyone sucks, they have to be fired!' stuff, and that's not reasonable. 

 

Pagano is losing me. I like the staff changes, for the most part, but they aren't working out so far. Chud hasn't been good, IMO, the OL makes too many mistake, the tackling is bad, there are too many penalties... I think coaching is holding the team back so far, and not just in game coaching, but the stuff that should have been worked out during camp also. There are a lot of injuries, so I'm not completely gone, but this stuff is extremely frustrating.

[Superman]

10 hours ago, colts8718 said:

You must be related to Irsay smell the coffee and wake up

 

Good one.

[Superman]

8 hours ago, SilentHill said:

 

You know, I'm fine if the Colts go out and get outplayed due to facing superior talent like we did in the Denver game, but we should be 3-1 right now. Only because of failed execution, poor planning and poor coaching we are 1-3.

 

I agree.

 

Without getting carried away, they had a shot to beat Denver, and blew it due to poor execution (which goes back to coaching). Plus, I think the play calling sucked in the Denver game, so I'm putting that one on coaching anyways. Chud was awful, IMO.

[Superman]

6 hours ago, azcolt said:

It was again pointed out in this thread that if we as fans can't suggest GM replacements for Grigson, then we probably shouldn't be calling for his head.  

 

No it wasn't.

[Superman]

6 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

1) A cardboard cutoff of a monkey holding a football. 

2) You are conveniently forgetting about the previous drafts (of which we don't even have most players on the team anymore)  

3) That's why he said reportedly. Relax dude. 

 

Things aren't going well because the culture of the team is poor. 

Heck, you could even replace the word "culture" with "coaching" 

 

 

1) Hilarious. 

 

2) No I'm not. We can talk about the bad previous drafts all day, but what difference does it make? And as bad as 2013 was, 2012, 2014 and 2015 weren't as bad as people make them out to be. Besides giving up the 2014 first for Richardson, getting Mewhort -- best lineman on the team through 4 games, playing with a knee injury -- and Moncrief is a good haul. 2015 was a good draft, also.

 

3) Nah, you don't get to repeatedly regurgitate debunked nonsense just because you use the word "reportedly." 

 

Since when are "culture" and "coaching" synonymous? 

[Superman]

6 hours ago, OHColtfan said:

Agree that he should have been gone, and I am paying attention... to a team that says it's not rebuilding, but set on winning. If your perspective is that we are rebuilding, laying a new foundation for this team, then I guess we are looking at the team from different perspectives. From everything I saw and heard, this was a team about winning, not starting over. The idea of continuity was to build and win, not go backwards.  If we are rebuilding, as you say, then we are in more trouble than anyone thinks, because we have a GM that can't draft worth a crap and can't spot FA talent very well either. If we are stuck with him to "lay a foundation" for the next few years, then we are on sinking sand not solid ground

 

I disagree that Grigson can't draft worth a crap. That's probably a fundamental reason we disagree to begin with. IMO, Grigson had one bad draft, and another one that was undermined by a bad trade. 

 

And you can listen to what the team says, or you can look at what they're doing. In 2013, the Colts were swinging for the fences to become a SB contender. They did it again in 2015. This year, they obviously changed strategy. If you think the Colts are still trying to shortcut their way to a SB, then you're not paying attention.

 

I never used the word rebuilding, by the way (that I remember). I said they consciously got away from trying to force themselves into contention with unsound moves. The roster is what it is. I don't care who you put in Grigson's place, the Colts weren't going to be a SB contender this season without leveraging their future. Maybe an outstanding coaching job would take a mediocre roster with a very good QB and have them making some noise in the playoffs, but you're acting like just because Irsay says he's setting on winning that he doesn't expect it to take any time to fix some of the mistakes of previous seasons. 

 

Unless you wanted to trade away picks for vets and hand out a bunch of guaranteed money for second tier FAs (this year's free agency was ridiculous), the Colts roster wasn't going to be significantly better than it is right now. Even the go-to "why didn't Grigson???" scenario of cutting Jackson and keeping Freeman -- which I think we should have done -- wouldn't make the Colts a contender this year. And Freeman isn't a foundational piece for the future at 30 years old.

[chad72]

8 hours ago, The Old Crow said:

Eliot Wolf-  Director of Football Operations.  GB Packers New Colts GM

 

Frank Reich. Off coordinator Eagles. New Colts head coach

 

I'm a Ravens fan trying to help you guys !

 

 

 

Frank Reich has a history with the Colts, was WR coach, then QB coach, he was a former QB too, have mad respect for him. With Caldwell at QB coach and Reich as WR coach, our O went to another level.

 

I am on board with Frank Reich as the next head coach. GM, I want to poach this guy from the Ravens:

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/staff/Vincent-Newsome/02141f50-6e37-4235-a5c1-adfd26698715

 

[The Old Crow]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Frank Reich has a history with the Colts, was WR coach, then QB coach, he was a former QB too, have mad respect for him. With Caldwell at QB coach and Reich as WR coach, our O went to another level.

 

I am on board with Frank Reich as the next head coach. GM, I want to poach this guy from the Ravens:

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/staff/Vincent-Newsome/02141f50-6e37-4235-a5c1-adfd26698715

 

 

Would be another great GM pick. 

[CanuckColtsFan]

13 hours ago, CoachLite said:

 

This team had a winning culture.

Well considering we have no losing seasons in recent memory its hard to say that

[stitches]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

1) Doesn't matter. Irsay does.

2) Doesn't matter. Irsay does. 

 

If you really want my opinion, I trust Grigson more than Pagano right now, because I think this team is underperforming on the field due to mistakes and missed opportunities. That's not a ringing endorsement for Grigson, though.

 

My point, though, is that we shouldn't be ignoring the fact that Irsay decided to keep Grigson. I don't believe that decision was made on the basis of Grigson's first four years, so us continuing to complain about those first four years is pointless and only adds to the aggravation.

 

 

First bolded, how has the new strategy been executed so far? I'm fine with the Colts offseason, when viewed from the perspective of what they did to get better and fix some problem spots; the biggest problem spot was addressed in the manner of killing an ant with an atom bomb, and it's about time. We won't know how it works out for a couple years, but I'm optimistic.

 

Second bolded, first, Grigson and Pagano are different. They're probably tied at the hip, using Irsay's words, but I'm fine with what Grigson has done. I think he had a good draft, and made sensible FA moves. And I think he had a pretty good 2012 offseason, a decent 2014 offseason, and a decent 2015 offseason. Doesn't mean he couldn't have done better, but I believe the stink on Grigson is mostly about 2013; I don't think he's as bad as popular opinion says. (I could name several moves Grigson has made that show he has some ability to build a roster.) Again, not an endorsement, just rejecting the extreme.

 

And again, if we reset the counter on Grigson, which Irsay appears to have done, then there's not a lot to complain about. What's happening is frustration over the team losing these games is reverting to the same old 'everyone sucks, they have to be fired!' stuff, and that's not reasonable. 

 

Pagano is losing me. I like the staff changes, for the most part, but they aren't working out so far. Chud hasn't been good, IMO, the OL makes too many mistake, the tackling is bad, there are too many penalties... I think coaching is holding the team back so far, and not just in game coaching, but the stuff that should have been worked out during camp also. There are a lot of injuries, so I'm not completely gone, but this stuff is extremely frustrating.

 

 

I'm sorry but I can't agree with giving Grigson so much leeway and I don't agree with 2014 and 2015 being decent. This team has 2 starting level players on the defensive side... TWO ... and 6 on the offensive side!!! You cannot excuse that. This is Grigson's job. In doing his job he's gotten this team to a point where we have 8 players on the roster who are starter level... We have so many holes to plug that we will need at least two more years before we even start resembling a good football team.

 

Also... please, lets not act like all he's screwed up so far is the strategy with free agents. Even though we had an impatient strategy with getting bad over the hill vets, he still had plenty of draft picks to play with and all he's managed to do is ... again... will repeat myself - 8 starting level players on the whole roster. Even if all his FAs bust, his draft still needed to be much better, especially on the defensive side. It's not like Irsay told him - 'don't care about the draft you can draft busts all you want, try to get what you need from FA market'. He's still had over 30 draft picks in the 2012-2015 period.

 

How many more draft picks would he need to get the next 8 starter-level players? What about the next 13 to fill out the roster? I'm sorry, I just don't trust him. I don't! I don't want him to draft for the Colts and I don't want Pagano to coach the players drafted.

 

About the 2016 draft - I liked it better than other drafts, but first, I don't know if that means anything. I am by no means an expert and I might be wrong about our draft and it might turn out to be another slew of failed picks. And second even if it's relatively good, I have no confidence that this is what I can expect from Grigson going forward. I have much more reasons to believe that it's going to be good draft by accident than good draft because of Grigson's talent evaluation skills.

 

[lollygagger8]

17 hours ago, Superman said:

 

1) Hilarious. 

 

2) No I'm not. We can talk about the bad previous drafts all day, but what difference does it make? And as bad as 2013 was, 2012, 2014 and 2015 weren't as bad as people make them out to be. Besides giving up the 2014 first for Richardson, getting Mewhort -- best lineman on the team through 4 games, playing with a knee injury -- and Moncrief is a good haul. 2015 was a good draft, also.

 

3) Nah, you don't get to repeatedly regurgitate debunked nonsense just because you use the word "reportedly." 

 

Since when are "culture" and "coaching" synonymous? 

 

2) Why can you not admit that Grigson just isn't very good? Remember his "PROTECT 12" note that he supposedly has on his desk? How's he been doing at that? Luck's getting turned into a $140M punching bag by this GM. 

 

3) You think people can't quote the media just because you don't agree with it? Hilarious. 

 

What I said was  "Heck, you could even replace the word "culture" with "coaching"  <- Read the title of the thread you are posting in. 

[lollygagger8]

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts

 

 

Luck is on pace to get sacked SIXTY times this year.

[The Old Crow]

17 hours ago, Superman said:

 

1) Hilarious. 

 

2) No I'm not. We can talk about the bad previous drafts all day, but what difference does it make? And as bad as 2013 was, 2012, 2014 and 2015 weren't as bad as people make them out to be. Besides giving up the 2014 first for Richardson, getting Mewhort -- best lineman on the team through 4 games, playing with a knee injury -- and Moncrief is a good haul. 2015 was a good draft, also.

 

3) Nah, you don't get to repeatedly regurgitate debunked nonsense just because you use the word "reportedly." 

 

Since when are "culture" and "coaching" synonymous? 

 

I think your analysis of the Colt's recent draft is the Stampede Blue article which declared them good drafts. This article was in response to a Rotoworld article where they rated Grigson 25th out of 28 GM's in the league. 

 

A better analysis would be his Philadelphia Eagle years when as Director of player personnel from 2010-2011 the Eagles went 10-6, then 8-8. In 2012, using  players he had a direct influence on , they fell to 4-12. This is a pattern you see in Indy. Strong start, then rot behind the floor boards. 

[GoBlue12]

On 10/2/2016 at 9:52 PM, 21isSuperman said:

Respectfully, in response...

 

1) I didn't do as much research on GM candidates since I don't make those decisions.  Given the little research I've done, I like Nick Caserio.  With that said, just because I don't know of the candidates, doesn't mean keeping/extending Grigson was the right idea

2) Sure, he did have a good 2016 offseason.  In general, I liked the draft.  The problem is that's one offseason.  He's been at the helm for more than one offseason.  What about the 2013 and 2014 drafts, when he went a combined 2/12?  What about the 2013 free agent class?  What about using first round picks on Werner and Richardson?  I'm not saying every move Grigson has made has been bad, but his history doesn't give me any confidence that he can build a winning team.

3) Well, I did say "reportedly".  I'm not presenting some inside scoop or anything.  Those were the reports, and the reports were rampant.  While it's possible they were all false, I tend to approach this with the idea of "where there's smoke, there's fire". 

 

With respect to your last line, I submit to you that this isn't little.  This team hasn't had much of a defense for years.  Luck has continued to be one of the most hit QBs in the league.  At a time when the Colts should be fighting for AFC supremacy, thanks to our generational talent at QB being in his prime, we're fighting to keep ourselves out of the basement of the AFC South.

Just where is this monster we were promised?